FB Marketplace has some nice looking Snap-On toolboxes nearby. All seem to be from private owners. I've read online that some of these boxes for sale are actually still owed on to Snap-On and the mechanic is trying to sell it as if he owns it. I've also read that Snap-On can, and has, repoed boxes after a third party bought it from a mechanic that still owed to Snap-On. Obviously, I don't want to get mixed up in any of that. Do these boxes have serial numbers and anyway of proving they are owned outright and not still owed to Snap-On?
Buying a used Snap-On toolbox
- Thread starter CoThG
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Wrench97
Well-known member
Yes they have serial numbers, get the number and have a dealer check it for a loan.
kbeefy
Well-known member
Thats seems ridiculous. They don't have titles like real estate or a car. The debt is on the owner, not the property. If the owner still has it in their possession the dealer probably has some recourse, but not once it changes hands.
My torque wrenches have serial numbers too, but that doesn't mean a dealer can have a lien on them.
My torque wrenches have serial numbers too, but that doesn't mean a dealer can have a lien on them.
I'm a hobbyist and don't have a tool truck dealer. Can I call corporate and ask?
I understand what you are saying and agree, but there are so many stories online of a mechanic selling his toolbox that he still owes money on to a private party and Snap-On claiming the box is still theirs as it was never paid off.
Tchicken
Well-known member
The reliability of online stories aside, one wonders how Snap-On might find said box once it is sold & transported inside Joey Bagadonutz' private garage. And what legal means they have to recover it from my possession?
As to the first part…unless the seller tells the dealer/debt collector where it is, they’d never know.
As to the second part, I’m sure it would vary by state to some extent. As a rule, without a court order they would have absolutely zero legal authority to enter your property to retrieve what they consider their property.
If I had to make a guess, based on some level of personal experience, most of these stories about Snap On getting the boxes back are actually stories of the driver lying/threatening/bluffing the new owner into relinquishing the box voluntarily. This is a lot easier than taking the original purchase to court or to collections and waiting for a bankruptcy payment or lien check.
Personally I wouldn't worry about it but have seller certify no loans are on it and get a signed bill of sale if it makes you feel better about it. Pull serial number off box (or wipe with acetone don't ask me how I know) and there's no longer any proof that box in your possession is in fact same box that some repo man will come looking for in the future. Highly unlikely that would ever happen. I might see the case where you bought a box from a coworker and the Snap-on dealer that he bought it from continues to service your location but even that is a long shot IMO. Anyway call Snap on if it makes you more comfortable. Not sure they can provide any info though with privacy and fair credit and reporting laws.
Just curious, when you take out a loan for a box is that loan just for the box or is it more a revolving type line of credit where buyer can purchase other tools? If the latter case, how do you even know when the box has been paid off if purchaser continues to buy more tools on credit in the future? Say I bought a $10k box and $5k in tools. Paid off $12.5k with $2.5k balance outstanding? Is the box paid off or not? Not sure if they actually track this stuff tool by tool. Just curious.
Just curious, when you take out a loan for a box is that loan just for the box or is it more a revolving type line of credit where buyer can purchase other tools? If the latter case, how do you even know when the box has been paid off if purchaser continues to buy more tools on credit in the future? Say I bought a $10k box and $5k in tools. Paid off $12.5k with $2.5k balance outstanding? Is the box paid off or not? Not sure if they actually track this stuff tool by tool. Just curious.
I'm pretty sure their s/n are embossed into the steel and can't be "wiped off".
I don't believe that's true. Mine was just on a printed label. All the print came off when I wiped down the box to clean it. Actually was pretty disappointed as it took off the model numbers too. Ive had about 6 snap on boxes and dont recall ever seeing an embossed serial number. I dont have the $20k+ boxes though so maybe they are different IDK.
Wrench97
Well-known member
Depends on the box and the year built, older boxes are not stamped, newer pricier boxes are.
seber
Well-known member
Legally a secured loan requires a title to the security. That automatically eliminates toolboxes. Snap-on loans are strictly personal loans.
Makes sense. These are the boxes that I'm talking about that just had a printed label inside. By no means their "flag ship" boxes haha.
infinite97
Well-known member
There is no way for a snap-on dealer to repo a box that you have purchased private party unless they go through the court system and legally repossess the item, just like a vehicle.
The stories of snap on route drivers walking into shops and taking the property of someone else are ridiculous.
We've had multiple threads on this, including multiple by the OP
www.garagejournal.com
CoThG's Toolbox question thread
I've been looking on FB Marketplace for toolboxes and came across one that looked worthy of further investigation. I messaged the guy for additional photos and he sent me this photo of his invoice from his tool truck guy. I'm assuming he's using Snap On credit. UFB the interest rate he's being...
www.garagejournal.com
mreisner
Well-known member
A ucc lien is filed with the state regarding the financing and the security of the loan. The box is the security. John Deere finances million dollar combines that don't have titles either, yet the machine is the security.
mreisner
Well-known member
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Bannik254
Well-known member
Just buy the box. Remove serial numbers. This isn't a firearm, it's an overpriced storage box—no serial, no repossession.
Wrench97
Well-known member
That one may have a stamped number on the backside.
rust in the eye
Well-known member
PLS DELETE
rust in the eye
Well-known member
We've had multiple threads on this, including multiple by the OP
CoThG's Toolbox question thread
I've been looking on FB Marketplace for toolboxes and came across one that looked worthy of further investigation. I messaged the guy for additional photos and he sent me this photo of his invoice from his tool truck guy. I'm assuming he's using Snap On credit. UFB the interest rate he's being...
I never overly worried about unpaid loans on truck boxes.
I always try avoid obvious problem used listings or something that likely outright stolen .
Good luck on dealers tracking down and legally recovering a tool box ...
Wouldn't have this issue if didn't encourage debt on people who can't afford it or are high risk of vanishing in early months of big truck tool credit deal .
All my current work boxes are older Matco bought used .
First proper box was a well used Snapon 36" and I bought and sold few boxes when spotted good deals to gain some cash to grow my own tool storage . Done 30+ years using used boxes, no tool debt & I own my own shop, things like tyre machines, wheel alignment, lifts can be worth credit route procurement but not a tool box lol .
I always try avoid obvious problem used listings or something that likely outright stolen .
Good luck on dealers tracking down and legally recovering a tool box ...
Wouldn't have this issue if didn't encourage debt on people who can't afford it or are high risk of vanishing in early months of big truck tool credit deal .
All my current work boxes are older Matco bought used .
First proper box was a well used Snapon 36" and I bought and sold few boxes when spotted good deals to gain some cash to grow my own tool storage . Done 30+ years using used boxes, no tool debt & I own my own shop, things like tyre machines, wheel alignment, lifts can be worth credit route procurement but not a tool box lol .
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We bought our John Deere Backhoe new in 1983. That was the first year backhoes had titles. We bought a brand new John Deere backhoe in 1982, no title.
SouthernIllinois
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The JD Gators don't come with titles either and it's a huge bureaucratic PIA to get a title from the state of Illinois (I just gave up)
For Snap On box if it's not paid for they could claim you're in possession of stolen goods. But they'd also have to prove that and is it worth their while to fight that or go after the original guy who owes them the money to begin with. I'm surprised for the value that the serial number wouldn't also be stamped on it somewhere.
A lot of stuff like backhoes usually have VINs and titles, combines and farm equipment don't.
It's strange Gators don't have a title. Things like that do here. The big problem is when you buy used and they don't give it to you.
IndyGarage
Well-known member
Seems like something I wouldn't worry about.
I have two nice toolboxes that I bought used - a Snap-on and a Matco and I have no reason to think they are stolen, but I'm not at all worried about somebody coming to get them any more than I am any other piece of equipment I buy.
I have two nice toolboxes that I bought used - a Snap-on and a Matco and I have no reason to think they are stolen, but I'm not at all worried about somebody coming to get them any more than I am any other piece of equipment I buy.
SouthernIllinois
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The way it was explained to me was John Deere considers Gator's implements, thus no title.
Bought mine used - no paperwork other than a bill of sale. Seems sketchy but after a bunch of research, I guess that is pretty normal.
Polaris, Honda, Kubota SXS's all come with a title as I understand it.
They can claim all they want..that doesn’t make it true.
Again, every state will be different, but here that claim would be ignored by anyone resembling law enforcement. It’s a civil matter through and through, and that’s the end of it. Law Enforcement wouldn’t even generate a report for that claim, let alone act on it or assist with its recovery.
mreisner
Well-known member
I think it varies from state to state regarding the title on non-road equipment. The reason deer doesn't have titles for theirs but has been and certificates of origin is it gets them around a whole lot of regulations.
It is a pretty legitimate claim. If the original owner didn't pay it off they never technically owned it and shouldn't have sold it. But that beef would be between Snap-on and that person. If it went beyond that and that's a pretty big IF Snap-on would have to know where the box went and at the very least have to file something to legally take possession of it. If it somehow managed to get to court at all and Snap-on happened to win they get what a used box out of it? Like I said hardly worth their while. Far easier for them to go after the person who owes them the money.
1Bad55Chevy
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A UCC lien is filed on the assets of the business. In the case of John Deere a farming company takes out the loan for the tractor and in the case of default they can come get the tractor, trailers, trucks, etc until they re coupe the balance. On a UCC filing there is a pecking order. The first company listed on the UCC has first rights to the assets then so on and so forth.
I use a floorplan to help supplement buying cars for my car lot. The floorplan company has a UCC filing on my business and if i default they will come pick up ALL of the vehicles on the property not just the ones they are holding the titles to. They would run all the vehicles through the auction and any remaining cash would be returned to me or the next person filed on the UCC listing.
1Bad55Chevy
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I in house finance cars for a living so I know a few things about repossessions since I do this almost weekly. What people dont understand is the lender does not own the property legally they just have a financial interest in it. For example if one of my customers hides the vehicle behind a gate I can not report it stolen because they are the owners of the vehicle. In that case I would have have to get a court ordered repossession and then hope the residents open the gate when we get there with law enforcement. Legally the debtor has more rights to the property then the creditor.
Another thing I deal with as a car dealer is the rent a tire businesses. My customers finance out wheels and tires then get the vehicle repossessed I will get contacted by the company or they will show up demanding the wheels off the vehicle and it just tell them to leave. Like SO tools and boxes these loans are with the debtor and cant be taken from other people. Cars are different since there is a title of ownership i have all kinds of stories of people selling my vehicles on FBM for bottom dollar because they were out for repo and they are trying to get down-payment money for another vehicle.
Now would a SO franchise repo a tool box that was sold to someone else? Possibly if they serviced that shop and found it. Would it be legal? No.
As a car dealer if I sell cars using outside financing the customer is required to make a certain amount of payments and if they dont i have to buy the vehicle back (recourse buy back). I wonder if SO financial has similar rules on franchise dealers if so many might not have the liquid cash to buy back something like a fully loaded 84" Epiq box and would be doing everything possible to recover it.
Bottom line you cant break the piece during a repo, if someone were to show up you just tell them to leave. If they don't leave its trespassing and you call the police. When the police show up they will tell them to leave and they need to handle it in court.
mreisner
Well-known member
At least with Deere financing and CNH Global it is only on the piece of equipment ,the UCC thing is very specific. Floor plan I can understand would be different. UCC filing for a toolbox is the same way it is only the toolbox and whatever tools that are financed through that loan.
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GX460DIYguy
Well-known member
I’ve never had snap on ask me for a serial when calling for parts to a box. If your local dealer isn’t going to be walking in and recognizing the box, you really don’t have anything to worry about. What debt is owed is between snap on and the original purchaser.
rsanter
Well-known member
I would never knowingly buy a box that money was owed on it.
but by the same notion I have no concern that SO can find or retieve the box from me as I have no deal or contract with them.
also you need to look at the point of dismissing return. That is a lower end box so how much effort are they going to do to try to get it back.
it not like its a bug Epiq box
but by the same notion I have no concern that SO can find or retieve the box from me as I have no deal or contract with them.
also you need to look at the point of dismissing return. That is a lower end box so how much effort are they going to do to try to get it back.
it not like its a bug Epiq box
I suspect that most of those stories were told by snap on dealers to customers buying boxes on finance.
Many of the older KRA and KR boxes from the 60s thru the mid 90s are indeed stamped---its the newer ones from the late 90s onward that have printed labeling. A few very early 40s and 50s boxes were not stamped but would be the exception.
seber
Well-known member
Tractors and gators both come with a certificate of origin. I have bought both and received that certificate each time. If you got a loan, the lender would have used that for a title. You could do the same for the gator unless you lost it or the lender kept it.
Lookin4'67Galaxieconv
Well-known member
It's actually the other way around.