The VISES of Garage Journal

[12vx2]

Thanks. I am guilty of skimming. When I was looking at patents assigned to Wilton in the same timeframe as the production of the Flip-Grip, I saw that patent and another (3768797 / 1973, pertaining to the versatile jaws), on both DATAMP and vintagemachinery.org, but neither the titles (both filed as "Vise Assembly") or the drawings screamed Flip-Grip to me. They are actually both related.

Have you seen any examples with the patent forged in?

I'm not sure what sequence the finishes came, soylent green or red, but all the examples I have found have the forged-in "PAT. PEND." marking.

// BREAK //

When searching for other examples of the Wilton "Flip-Grip", I found a completely different Wilton vise, with a completely different tilting feature - a single long pin running the entire length of the body, allowing the entire vise to tilt on any angle, anywhere from, oh, say, 10* to 170*. Example here. For future reference for anyone else who might be equally confussed, this is the Flip-Grip II. Introduced in 1980, as far as I can tell (does not appear in 1978 or 1979 catalogs).

First vise I ever purchased, I'm sure it was in 1979. Had little cast nibs to locate various angles. In a short time one of the jaws cracked in the middle and the locating nibs wore down until the body would flop over constantly. I was going to weld it in upright position and was given a different vise. I don't remember what became of it, I have never missed it.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

^ Thanks. The presets make sense. And yeah, it seems a little gimmicky. Like the first incarnation, I'd probably snag it at flea market prices just for the novelty. Its older brother won't be a user either.

 

[Outlawmws]

I had a Flip Grip V1 , an early on Xmas gift in HS. That series of vises came with different jaws on pins as well as pipe jaws. It wasn't a high quality vise and I'm sure an entry level import for Wilton.

There was also a more conventional base version without the flip feature. I don't think the Flip grip 2 lasted long as an offering.

My Flip grip eventually got stuck on a crude post stand and used as as welding vise where its weaknesses were not so detrimental. I gave it to a friend's son when he was learning welding in HS.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

That series of vises came with different jaws on pins as well as pipe jaws.

Yes, the ads and catalogs (I included an excerpt in my first post) make it clear the intent was woodworking jaws with easily removable and replaceable inserts for machinists and pipefitter work all in one tower, @bluebolt has a NOS/NIB Flip-Grip with both jaw inserts (I included a link to his vise in my first post), and that versatile jaw arrangement - which can be seen on the Flip-Grip I and II was the subject of the second of the two relevant patents I cited in my reply to @PghJKB above.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm really happy with the way this Flip-Grip cleaned up. I was thinking it would make a fun whole 9 yards restoration project, but it has a well-used yet well-preserved look. I may just move it along as is.

 

[amvenhaus]

Does anyone have the swivel jaw pin dimensions for a Reed 404-1/2R? Does Reed use 3 degree taper per side? I have the dimensions from a 404-1/2 not R series. Are they the same?

 

[four.cycle]

Parker vise.
Model 954 "Eclipse" 4 inch jaw
Has a brass identification plate attached to it.
Does the brass plate add anything to monetary value?
Or is this just another vise?

 

[1Bad55Chevy]

Parker vise.
Model 954 "Eclipse" 4 inch jaw
Has a brass identification plate attached to it.
Does the brass plate add anything to monetary value?
Or is this just another vise?

It was in a govt manufacturing plant during ww2. If you read that they talk about the plants were owned by the govt equipment and all then leased to the manufacturing companies to build the war machine. I would assume it just makes it a cool conversation piece.

Defense Plant Corporation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Beerhippie]

What's that word before Parker? It sure don't look like Chas.

 

[Outlawmws]

What's that word before Parker? It sure don't look like Chas.

the "c" fell of the mold pattern. its not uncommon for one of more to go missing and even get put in upside down

 

[KMScott]

Does anyone have the swivel jaw pin dimensions for a Reed 404-1/2R? Does Reed use 3 degree taper per side? I have the dimensions from a 404-1/2 not R series. Are they the same?

Amy, here is my drawing that should help you.

 

[amvenhaus]

Amy, here is my drawing that should help you.

Thanks KMScott. Do you know if that is the same dimension for a R series 404-1/2?

 

[KMScott]

Thanks KMScott. Do you know if that is the same dimension for a R series 404-1/2?

I don’t know to be honest. My 404-1/2 with the round meatball accepts this pin The drawing gives you the dimension to check. If the top diameter of the tapered hole is around .730-.740 then this pin will work. I can’t believe Reed would change the pin angle. 3 degrees is a standard angle used by Prentiss and Reeds.

 

[amvenhaus]

I don’t know to be honest. My 404-1/2 with the round meatball accepts this pin The drawing gives you the dimension to check. If the top diameter of the tapered hole is around .730-.740 then this pin will work. I can’t believe Reed would change the pin angle. 3 degrees is a standard angle used by Prentiss and Reeds.

Sounds good. The top of the tapered hole in mine .730. Thanks!

 

[Gerard]

Parker vise.
Model 954 "Eclipse" 4 inch jaw
Has a brass identification plate attached to it.
Does the brass plate add anything to monetary value?
Or is this just another vise?

Aside from being mistakenly cast as a "HARS PARKER" Vise, it appears to have the kind of base that the later Union Parker vises have; the style with three bolt holes that works with a swivel base or as a stationary. As far as I know, that design didn't come around until long after WWII, and I've never seen one with that type of base that wasn't clearly marked as a Union Parker, along with the other design changes they did. Aside from the base, your vise looks mostly like a typical older Parker, although the end of the handle also looks unusual.

I'm baffled. Never seen a Parker vise like yours. Maybe it was some sort of factory prototype, that just got shipped out as-is during war production times, since it was still a perfectly functional vise.

 

[DCRUTT]

Is there still someone out there making and selling swivel lockdown nuts for Reeds? I have a 104R in need of one.
Is the thread a 3/4”-10 with a double start? It looks like it to me. Has a date code of Jan 1944.
Thanks!

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Band new panavise 303 with nylon jaws and new suction base.

 

[PeterPeter]

As seen in the wild, no info. Looks like a Sargent, or some other reseller. I’m just spit balling here, but maybe they came up with their own screw retaining collar, to avoid paying Parker for the patent rights. Other than the odd bolt under screw, it looks OEM, a cast production part.

Anyone else ever see this innovation?

reteP reteP

 

[Patrickm82]

Just grabbed this Athol Machine #80 from market place for $35. Very good condition with most of the original finish. Just needs a light clean up. All original hardware as well!

 

[Outlawmws]

As seen in the wild, no info. Looks like a Sargent, or some other reseller. I’m just spit balling here, but maybe they came up with their own screw retaining collar, to avoid paying Parker for the patent rights. Other than the odd bolt under screw, it looks OEM, a cast production part.

Anyone else ever see this innovation?

reteP reteP

Looks like someone's repair for a busted screw on possibly a Parker.

 

[four.cycle]

Band new panavise 303

Wow! So there's still an Ernst Hardware open up north of here?

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Wow! So there's still an Ernst Hardware open up north of here?

No, I think the one in Silverdale closed in the 90's. This looks like it was probably bought a while before that.

 

[cardi]

Hi guys!

This is my first post, and I have a quick question...
I have a bench vise that I'd like to restore.
But... does anyone know anything about it or have any information on it? I don't know what it looked like when it was new, or even who made it... Perhaps ARNO Germany by Georg Kesel GmbH? I can't find anything about it online.

 

[RTM]

Hi guys!

This is my first post, and I have a quick question...
I have a bench vise that I'd like to restore.
But... does anyone know anything about it or have any information on it? I don't know what it looked like when it was new, or even who made it... Perhaps ARNO Germany by Georg Kesel GmbH? I can't find anything about it online.

Think like a German when you search, instead of

Arno vise

Try

Arno Schraubstock

You will get results in German, like patent application lists, general ****, and maybe one or two useful links.

Using Google translate can help you separate the wheat from the chaff, and add
-****
To your search for whatever term is giving you garbage.

It may be slow and iterative, but you may find something. Adding the German word for history might help as well.

There are a few German tool catalogs here, the 1928-31 ones are quite good and diverse product lines. You might find one which matches yours to give a timeline.

Internet Archive: Digital Library of Free & Borrowable Texts, Movies, Music & Wayback Machine

archive.org

This site focuses on very old Woodworking tools, but I always poke in here for anything unknown and European.

Markensuche

Good luck

 

[four.cycle]

No, I think the one in Silverdale closed in the 90's.

Wikipedia says their last year was 1996.
Used to give them a huge amount of my paycheck every month.
I thought you were up I-5 from me.
You're up on the Peninsula?

I drive through twice a week right now.

 

[neophyte]

Hi guys!

This is my first post, and I have a quick question...
I have a bench vise that I'd like to restore.
But... does anyone know anything about it or have any information on it? I don't know what it looked like when it was new, or even who made it... Perhaps ARNO Germany by Georg Kesel GmbH? I can't find anything about it online.

That style of vise is usually produced by Spanish manufacturers nowadays.
Snap-On even sells or sold a version under the Blue-Point name, with the vise being a rebranded version of the Snap-On Europe Bahco branded vise, which might have been produced by one of the other brands Snap-On Europe, or Bahco purchased at some point.

 

[four.cycle]

Kesel / Georg Kesel GmbH & Co. KG, Maybachstrasse 6, 87437 Kempten, Germany / https://www.kesel.com/ / est. 1889 / "Arno" vise /

 

[Richard Barre]

(All info regarding this bench vise was found out at later dates.) A good friend of mine has a 1902 double swival Williamson bench vise installed on his work bench. When I was in his garage, I noticed the red painted vise. I am not a tool or bench vise knowledgeable person and I made a remark about how 'cool' I thought this vise looked. He said he was able to save it when his Grandad passed.

A few weeks passed and the vise stuck in my mind. I contacted my friend and began a conversation about it. At one time, he had sand blasted and painted the vise red. I asked about the straps on the top and he had no idea if they were originally installed by Williamson in 1902 - 1907, put on by his Grandad or someone else... or why (?). The lack of images on the internet of this or similiar vises manufactured by Williamson made things difficult. The pics I did find mostly showed the dbl. swival vise in raw metal. I found one that was a light greyish green and one painted red. None of the images or illustrations showed a vise with straps on them. A few days passed and I looked at the photos of this vise again (surprise) ... additional straps were installed on both sides. It appears they were put on due to metal fatigue, stress cracks or something similiar. Not sure. They look great though and a beautiful install I might add.

So, my questions are these. 1. Were these straps installed for metal failure? 2. Did someone not like the swival feature on the vise? 3. What was the original color (s) if any of the WIlliamson dbl. swival vise? 4. Do the straps add value to the vise OR diminish the value?

Last comment. My friend suggested taking the straps off, disassembling and sandblasting the vise, followed by welding and a fresh coat of red paint. Last question.... 5. What say you?

 

[Richard Barre]

Enlarged pics of above post

 

[micahd1997]

Hi, @Richard Barre! Thanks for the pictures and the background on the vise. Having seen a number of these vises, I can assure you and your friend that the straps are after-market. Most often, “straps” like that are added in order to hold the vise together after a severe break. I own several vises of different brands that fall into this category. Repair parts were available to buy separately from the manufacturers, but especially if someone was an able bodied craftsman and could find a way to “make it work” without having to pay money for new parts, then they would.

That said, if you remove the straps and don’t find any breaks, then that would seem to indicate that the previous owner made the modification in order to fix the moveable parts in place. Why? I’m not sure…especially if the user had purchased the vise in the first place. Why buy a multi-swivel vise only to turn it into a fixed model? Who knows, but that’s a possibility. It looks like the “straps” are held on by bolts rather than rivets. If that’s the case, i don’t imagine there’d be any danger in unscrewing them and looking around a little. Ultimately, the straps are a cool repair to the average vise enthusiast, but I’ve never seen a repair that has increased the value of a vise. I’d personally place value around $150-$300 in that condition. If it were in original condition with no repairs, closer to $400-$500 would be reasonable. They’re not common at all. Someone else will have to chime in on the original color, but vises of that age were almost always painted black or japanned

 

[Richard Barre]

Hi, @Richard Barre! Thanks for the pictures and the background on the vise. Having seen a number of these vises, I can assure you and your friend that the straps are after-market. Most often, “straps” like that are added in order to hold the vise together after a severe break. I own several vises of different brands that fall into this category. Repair parts were available to buy separately from the manufacturers, but especially if someone was an able bodied craftsman and could find a way to “make it work” without having to pay money for new parts, then they would.

That said, if you remove the straps and don’t find any breaks, then that would seem to indicate that the previous owner made the modification in order to fix the moveable parts in place. Why? I’m not sure…especially if the user had purchased the vise in the first place. Why buy a multi-swivel vise only to turn it into a fixed model? Who knows, but that’s a possibility. It looks like the “straps” are held on by bolts rather than rivets. If that’s the case, i don’t imagine there’d be any danger in unscrewing them and looking around a little. Ultimately, the straps are a cool repair to the average vise enthusiast, but I’ve never seen a repair that has increased the value of a vise. I’d personally place value around $150-$300 in that condition. If it were in original condition with no repairs, closer to $400-$500 would be reasonable. They’re not common at all. Someone else will have to chime in on the original color, but vises of that age were almost always painted black or japanned

Thanks for the response M1997. Good info here. A few more replies like this and we'll know everything. Thanks again.

 

[neophyte]

Hi, @Richard Barre! Thanks for the pictures and the background on the vise. Having seen a number of these vises, I can assure you and your friend that the straps are after-market. Most often, “straps” like that are added in order to hold the vise together after a severe break. I own several vises of different brands that fall into this category. Repair parts were available to buy separately from the manufacturers, but especially if someone was an able bodied craftsman and could find a way to “make it work” without having to pay money for new parts, then they would.

That said, if you remove the straps and don’t find any breaks, then that would seem to indicate that the previous owner made the modification in order to fix the moveable parts in place. Why? I’m not sure…especially if the user had purchased the vise in the first place. Why buy a multi-swivel vise only to turn it into a fixed model? Who knows, but that’s a possibility. It looks like the “straps” are held on by bolts rather than rivets. If that’s the case, i don’t imagine there’d be any danger in unscrewing them and looking around a little. Ultimately, the straps are a cool repair to the average vise enthusiast, but I’ve never seen a repair that has increased the value of a vise. I’d personally place value around $150-$300 in that condition. If it were in original condition with no repairs, closer to $400-$500 would be reasonable. They’re not common at all. Someone else will have to chime in on the original color, but vises of that age were almost always painted black or japanned

Maybe the vise was purchased, and then it was realized the ability to swivel the jaw to the side was inherently problematic for other uses. (Such as clamping something, and bending it towards the side in the same plane as the vise swiveled, or unfastening tight fasteners in the same direction.
If there was no extra money to buy another vise, drilling the holes and strapping the vise jaw in place would make sense.

 

[neophyte]

Enlarged pics of above post

Is that a crack in that location ?

 

[Beerhippie]

Is that a crack in that location ?

That's what I'm seeing.

 

[jmarkwolf]

I used to laugh at all "those people" who collected vises.

While tidying up the shop the other day I realized I'm working on quite the collection my own self.

You may have noticed I'm partial to Cardinal Speedvises. One of my 6inchers isn't in the photo. The middle 4in Speedvise I inherited from my dad. The 3in speedvise in the lower left corner was too cute to pass up. The Speedvise on the right side I paid $10 for. The 6in Speedvise not included in the pic I paid $30 for.

The 3in vise in the upper left corner is a chinese knock-off of a Heinrich. It works well.

Can't remember how I came by the 4in Stanley but it's actually a nice solid heavy vise.

The 6in vise next to the 6in Speedvise came with a very nice $100 20in Wilton drill press I found on Craigslist.

There are others not in the photo.

I favor the Speedvises for actual usage.

 

[Patrickm82]

I have a question for the group. Does anyone recognize this vise? I told the guy selling it I would take it, but he is only at his shop on Fridays for some reason. Just curious what I’m getting next week.

 

[colmal]

I have a question for the group. Does anyone recognize this vise? I told the guy selling it I would take it, but he is only at his shop on Fridays for some reason. Just curious what I’m getting next week.

It's nice to know others do stuff like this as well,

 

[RTM]

I have a question for the group. Does anyone recognize this vise? I told the guy selling it I would take it, but he is only at his shop on Fridays for some reason. Just curious what I’m getting next week.

That's Dave. Don't worry about it. I'm pretty sure his brothers are on this site somewhere.

 

[drokihazan]

I came upon this absolutely beat Parker 104 with no jaws and a cracked tail on the dynamic jaw. It opens and closes smoothly though, the nut, handle, and screw seem to be in good shape. Doesn't have the original Parker collar.

If someone here wants it, it's yours for the price of shipping from Santa Clara, CA. I feel it'd be a shame for me to just toss it in the recycling bin.

 

[Itinerant]

I picked up this Rock Island 574 a couple of weeks ago. The original jaws were worn and the fasteners were not correct and protruded above the faces. New teeth courtesy of @autopts arrived today.