Add Block Wall to Existing Shop Where No Footing Exists???

[nicholsmf]

Looking to add a block wall to existing shop. In the image below you see the following:

- All black lines represent existing block walls sitting on footings from the original build.
- The large shop area is 6" concrete slab
- Long narrow room across the back is 4: con slab
- Exterior wall are 12' high
- The existing interior wall is 8' high

I want to add a block wall where it is marked in red. Wall would be 8' high x 10' long

Any concerns about not having a footing under that wall?




Wall would be inside the back room approximately where show in red below.

 

[PCustoms]

Is the wall going to be load bearing?

Probably not an issue if there's no load on it.

Any reason to not just frame it out of wood?

 

[nicholsmf]

Is the wall going to be load bearing?

Probably not an issue if there's no load on it.

Any reason to not just frame it out of wood?

Non load bearing except it might make sense to tie it into the ceiling/roof of the back room(s) maybe. I guess that would put some amount of load on the wall even though the existing ceiling/roof is load being as is.

The back room has a load bearing roof over it - basically a deck I guess. I use it for storage of items like coolers, ladders, kayacks, etc. It all the bulky but lightweight items that are not used often but often in the way.

Block is the choice over wood for looks based on the intended use of the room.

 

[PCustoms]

Non load bearing except it might make sense to tie it into the ceiling/roof of the back room(s) maybe. I guess that would put some amount of load on the wall even though the existing ceiling/roof is load being as is.

The back room has a load bearing roof over it - basically a deck I guess. I use it for storage of items like coolers, ladders, kayacks, etc. It all the bulky but lightweight items that are not used often but often in the way.

Even if you tie into it, that doesn't become load bearing due to your existing ceiling framing. No concerns with this being on the floor.

Block is the choice over wood for looks based on the intended use of the room.

Ever done block before? I haven't, so would lean another way. Steel studs and tin sheathing is fireproof...

 

[bluedog225]

I’ve got a similar arrangement. I was thinking about a modest h-beam from footing to footing. Keeping the majority of the load off the slab.

 

[jack stand]

I'd think that not only do you not need a footing, but you could use the area above for "medium duty" mezzanine. Just no multiple engine blocks or spools or welding wire.

 

[nicholsmf]

Even if you tie into it, that doesn't become load bearing due to your existing ceiling framing. No concerns with this being on the floor.




Ever done block before? I haven't, so would lean another way. Steel studs and tin sheathing is fireproof...

I haven't done block, but would have the guy who built the shop add the wall.

 

[nicholsmf]

I’ve got a similar arrangement. I was thinking about a modest h-beam from footing to footing. Keeping the majority of the load off the slab.

I haven't considered any alternative yet. My gut feeling is that I'm ok do just have the wall put down on the slab. My lack of experience in this area just has me second guessing my guy feeling.

The wall should be around 4,000 lbs or less and be spread over almost 7 square feet of the slab.

 

[carlaisle]

So you're talking about 5psi from the wall. Virgin soil can support more than that with no footing. If your slab can't handle that you have bigger issues.

 

[nicholsmf]

So you're talking about 5psi from the wall. Virgin soil can support more than that with no footing. If your slab can't handle that you have bigger issues.

Agreed. However, I tend to overthink and overdo most things. lol

 

[geneg]

Agreed. However, I tend to overthink and overdo most things. lol

Non-load bearing block on a 6" slab shouldn't create an issue. I'd put a bond beam for the top course with clip angles on both sides tied into the existing block walls. Suprisingly easy to knock a block wall over if not bearing weight or tied at the top.

 

[Jerry1985]

For a non-load bearing interior wall on a 4" slab, steel studs with cement board or tin sheathing is definitely the easier route. No footing needed, still fireproof, and easier to get level and plumb.

 

[DennisK59]

A Bonded Beam in the first coarse and top coarse would keep the load even across the floor in case there is a void below the slab.

 

[nicholsmf]

Non-load bearing block on a 6" slab shouldn't create an issue. I'd put a bond beam for the top course with clip angles on both sides tied into the existing block walls. Suprisingly easy to knock a block wall over if not bearing weight or tied at the top.

Not sure how to do a bond on the top course with the ceiling already in place, but I'm not a block guy. I'll definitely discuss this option when I hire this out.

 

[nicholsmf]

A Bonded Beam in the first coarse and top coarse would keep the load even across the floor in case there is a void below the slab.

Not sure how to do a bond on the top course with the ceiling already in place, but I'm not a block guy. I'll definitely discuss this option when I hire this out.

 

[nicholsmf]

For a non-load bearing interior wall on a 4" slab, steel studs with cement board or tin sheathing is definitely the easier route. No footing needed, still fireproof, and easier to get level and plumb.

Definitely easier, but I want this wall to be block.

 

[462867aa]

Nice looking area

 

[OccupantRJ]

My former concrete block shop had an 8” block wall partition 28 feet long added across it directly laid on the 4” concrete floor for 45 years and never an issue. Wall was 9’-6” high. My BIL masonry contractor laid the wall for me and never blinked about it.

 

[nicholsmf]

Nice looking area

Thank you!

 

[nicholsmf]

My former concrete block shop had an 8” block wall partition 28 feet long added across it directly laid on the 4” concrete floor for 45 years and never an issue. Wall was 9’-6” high. My BIL masonry contractor laid the wall for me and never blinked about it.

That's good to hear.

 

[geneg]

Not sure how to do a bond on the top course with the ceiling already in place, but I'm not a block guy. I'll definitely discuss this option when I hire this out.

Do the bond beam one course down & use line blocks for the top. I didn't catch the ceiling when I read your post.

 

[Junkman]

I would drill the floor and insert some 3/4" rebar into the first course or two. That will anchor it to the floor and fill the cavity with cement, so when the wall is done, it will be less likely to fall if it were hit by a moving object. Is there going to be a door in this wall? If not, you are building a vault, not a room.

 

[Beemer]

I’ve got a similar arrangement. I was thinking about a modest h-beam from footing to footing. Keeping the majority of the load off the slab.

What's an h beam?

 

[Beemer]

I would drill the floor and insert some 3/4" rebar into the first course or two. That will anchor it to the floor and fill the cavity with cement, so when the wall is done, it will be less likely to fall if it were hit by a moving object. Is there going to be a door in this wall? If not, you are building a vault, not a room.

Pretty big bars with only a 4" (or less) slab embedment for development.

 

[nicholsmf]

Do the bond beam one course down & use line blocks for the top. I didn't catch the ceiling when I read your post.

Makes sense. Thank you.

 

[nicholsmf]

I would drill the floor and insert some 3/4" rebar into the first course or two. That will anchor it to the floor and fill the cavity with cement, so when the wall is done, it will be less likely to fall if it were hit by a moving object. Is there going to be a door in this wall? If not, you are building a vault, not a room.

No door in this wall

 

[bluedog225]

What's an h beam?

Informal term for a wide-flange beam.

 

[OccupantRJ]

What's an h beam?

H beam do not have tapered flanges like an I beam. Tapered flanges allow proper use of a self centering hoist trolley for lifting uses.

What is the difference between W, S, I, H sections?

W and H sections look pretty much the same. S and I sections have their flanges rounded. What difference does this rounding make, why would an S-section be used instead of W-section for example?

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