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Between 485 & 705 SQ/FT I have no idea what I'm doing: A 26x26 shop build.

Workspaces between 485 and 705 squarefeet.

gearhead1960

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According to Dinan, none are needed as their tune optimizes the 2.0 liter BMW engine. This engine sees a lot of different tunes across BMW’s line, so don’t doubt the ability to get this increase. Other tuners also have also advertised this increase.
 
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odj

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That's pretty impressive. I can only assume that BMW is detuning the engine in the Mini chassis to create some separation from its BMW brethren. I got somewhat similar numbers (supposedly) from my 135 with a tune, but it's also a 3 liter six cylinder.
 

andyvh1959

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My brother loves his John Cooper Werks Mini. Had it on the big track at Road America a bunch of times. I caught a pic of him in the quick LH turn 8 on three wheels. Even on his 1st runs of the track he was hitting 110 in the carousel turn (huge long sweeper 180). Fun little roofed go-cart, and he drives it a lot as a daily driver.
 

MrPink

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I loved my Clubman, 425hp certainly helped too, lol. Mods were too extensive to list. It was fun til I totaled it by hitting a huge assed Raccoon, $4600 in damages.
 
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odj

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I loved my Clubman, 425hp certainly helped too, lol. Mods were too extensive to list. It was fun til I totaled it by hitting a huge assed Raccoon, $4600 in damages.

425hp?? Bonkers. What gen was it?

My brother loves his John Cooper Werks Mini. Had it on the big track at Road America a bunch of times. I caught a pic of him in the quick LH turn 8 on three wheels. Even on his 1st runs of the track he was hitting 110 in the carousel turn (huge long sweeper 180). Fun little roofed go-cart, and he drives it a lot as a daily driver.

The JCW cars do really well on track. One of the instructors in my group ran one for a long time and it would embarrass some much more powerful machinery at times. Well, more like embarrass their owners :D
 

Klokwerk

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I've really enjoyed reading through this thread Odj! Such a great story.
We've got a bit in common!
Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to seeing what else you get into.
 

MrPink

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425hp?? Bonkers. What gen was it?
Was a 2009. Fully build bottom end, PnP head, JCW intake manifold, the boost pressure per the boost gauge was 28psi, I forget what turbo was on it. I bought it built, I didn't build it. So I could not prove anything. I trusted what the previous owner said. I do know that it made enough power to snap both CV shafts lol.
 

jbrentd

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Just read through your thread and wanted to say hello...and well done!. A few things...

Although not very active on the vortex, I was surprised to see I've had that account since 2007. Makes me feel old.

My son's e90 had a similar t-stat housing. Found it when I had to change his electronic WP.

I feel your pain with projects not moving along. My old Audi has been on jack stands for 2 year (next month).
 
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odj

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Just read through your thread and wanted to say hello...and well done!. A few things...

Although not very active on the vortex, I was surprised to see I've had that account since 2007. Makes me feel old.

My son's e90 had a similar t-stat housing. Found it when I had to change his electronic WP.

I feel your pain with projects not moving along. My old Audi has been on jack stands for 2 year (next month).
Hello Brent!

I registered on the 'tex in November '01! That makes me feel ancient.

I feel for you, brother. Is that the CQ in your avatar? I lusted after one of those (Or a URQ) back when I had my Audi 90 - which, coincidentally, was when I signed up for the 'tex :D
 

jbrentd

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Hello Brent!

I registered on the 'tex in November '01! That makes me feel ancient.

I feel for you, brother. Is that the CQ in your avatar? I lusted after one of those (Or a URQ) back when I had my Audi 90 - which, coincidentally, was when I signed up for the 'tex :D
Yes, a CQ currently undoing an engine swap and restoration.
 
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odj

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So, I've been meaning to post a few things on this thread to get it up to date, including posting "lessons learned" over the last couple of years. I've sold a couple of vehicles and gained a few more since last I was active, but just had to post something about yesterday's acquisition:

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It's an '88 911 3.2 Carrera, and was the previous owner's track car for many years. It's sat for a while, and hasn't been started in two years, so I need to go through the fuel system and get some fresh fluids in before attempting a start up.

Here she is with the 135 - which has a non-factory vent hole in the engine block - and old man Remmie.

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More to come!
 

gearhead1960

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Greetings! Hope all is well on your side of the beltway! Flashed the Clubby’s DME at Dinan. Wow! What a major difference. Really livens up the car and makes for easy arrest me speeds. Hope to see updates soon on your most recent acquisition.
 
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odj

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Hey Mark!

Glad to hear - you've got to love how easy it is to squeeze some serious power out of these modern turbo engines.

I'll post up an update here shortly. I figure it's been long enough at this point.

Do you go ever go to Katie's? When I get the 911 roadworthy that's going to be one of my first stops.

Cheers,
Jackson
 
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odj

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Alrighty, so... *cracks knuckles*... It's update time.

I'm not sure if I mentioned what happened, but at my last track outing of 2021 I money-shfited my 135. I'm generally pretty cautious on my downshifts, but had been working on shortening my shift times that weekend, and between that and hustling around while having a conversation with a passenger, I skipped a couple of gears while downshifting for a corner at speed and committed. Car rev'd to god knows what, and henceforth refused to do anything more than coast us through the marbles and safely into the grass.

So she got towed back to the paddock, and a group of friends helped me push her up on the trailer to go home. It's times like this where I'm really glad to have the damn trailer.

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I wasn't all that mad at the time - I figured something expensive would happen eventually - but I was disappointed in myself, and certainly not excited about having to put a new engine in the car. That and I already had a couple other long-running projects taking up space in the garage as I mentioned in a previous post.

Back at the house, I ended up digging back in to the stereo install on the Mini (which I could post about if anyone is interested) as well as the cooling system/Vanos/etc. refresh job on the M3, and then did what any sane individual would do, and bought another car.

Well, technically two, but we'll get there.

I stumbled upon a local listing for a 2000 Boxster S on a local forum that looked interesting and reasonably priced, and swung by for a test drive. The seller even tried talking me into buying his old 911 track car, but something about getting an air-cooled car back on the road after a long slumber was just not quite that appealing at the time, and sounded expensive to boot. The Boxster checked out, he made me a great deal, and two hours later it was in my driveway.

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(That's not my driveway, btw.)

It's not silver, it is a six speed, and it came with a hard top and a brand new later version soft top (with the glass window) as well as an OEM sport exhaust and the MO30 sport suspension package. It went straight to daily driver duty, with fresh brake pads & tires, and shortly thereafter a second set of wheels (pictured above) with some all-seasons for winter duty, and it received some new floor mats and a new (functional) head unit and some other little things.

March rolled around, and I still hadn't touched the 135, so I needed something for track duty. Naturally I eyeballed the little red hairdresser's car. One problem: the stock seats sit too high for me to fit with a helmet.

So I bought some nearly-new Recaro Sportster GTs (complete with baked-in cigarette smell!) from a dude down south of me, took them home, and took them apart.

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I wanted to get as low as possible in the car, so I bought some "adapters" from Brey-Krause, which are essentially just a couple of strips of stainless on each side with some machine screws welded in. They get the seat low, but they don't have a seatbelt provision.

I had a bunch of seatbelt-specific stuff around from putting retractable belts in the 72 911 (did I mention that here?), but still needed a spacer to adapt the factory seat belt receptacle to the seat belt bolt. So I "machined" a rando spacer I found in my collection which just so happened to have the correct OD.

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Then dremeled out the hinge cover so I could run the seat belt sensor wire through it.

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Buttoned it back up.

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I repeated the same step for the passenger side, and then fought and yelled and cussed until the seats were both in.

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Despite me being almost too fat for these f*ckers (hooray for the Covid 25), they were low enough for me to fit in safely with a helmet, and off I went to the track.

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I ran some middling beater summer tires and throttle-lift-oversteered everywhere. It was slow but I had a f'n blast.

One of the things that's happened since I was last posting actively was one of my close friends passed away unexpectedly. I am pretty sure I posted the Chasing Brian video earlier, but that was him in his E30. That's been one of the chapters in the Covid-era sh*t-show that I've definitely not enjoyed, and it really sapped a lot of my energy and enjoyment around going to the track. He was an incredibly good guy and a fantastic driver, and I looked up to him a lot on both fronts.

Well, his wife brought his car down to the track and we did a parade lap with his family and a bunch of the instructor family, and spread his ashes at some of his favorite corners. It was a beautiful gesture, and I was honored that she asked me to drive his car (despite me not fitting in the seat. At all.).

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Anyhow, I kept in touch with the guy I got the Boxster from, filling him on on my work on the car and the like, and asked him if he'd sold the 911. Somehow that conversation ended up with him making me an incredible offer, and after some serious consideration I agreed to come get it.

My buddy John was kind enough to come up to help me load, but I knew I didn't want to start the car until I'd gone through it. So I bought a winch and installed it on the trailer the morning before going to get the car. You know, normal stuff.

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The winch worked great, and his wife was kind enough to take its final ride up the ramps before I handed over a check and drove off with what would become the seventh car in my "fleet".

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I finally got the Mini out of the garage (with its **new** coolant leak...) and the M3 off the lift and back on the road, and needed to get the 88 in the garage.

Well, I already had a winch, so I installed it in the garage.

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The 88 doesn't really have a tow hook in the rear, so I bought a Rennline one and installed it, winched the car out of its resting spot under teh tree, and gave it a wash before dragging it into the garage.

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It's a pretty cool car. It's an 88, so it has the 3.2 engine with the later G50 transmission. It came with "big red" brakes, some suspension upgrades, and a set of Fiske wheels from the early 2000s. It was optioned with the front and rear (whale tail) spoilers, a sunroof (meh), and a blue and white (yech) interior.

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It's missing a good chunk of said interior, and what is there is riddled with mouse turds. I keep finding nests everywhere (including in the airbox) and it's just generally kinda nasty inside.

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Since I got it in the garage, I've drained the tank, replaced the fuel filter and tank-to-pump hose, changed the oil & filter, and hand cranked it to make sure it wasn't siezed. It wasn't but the fuel pump is no good, so I'm waiting on one of those to arrive to see if I can get the old girl started up.

I've been taking video with the intent to post it up somewhere when I'm done, but that might be yet another project I don't have enough time for at the moment :D
 

DeeDubz

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Just read your build op. Nice looking shop. How do you like that atlas? Im thinking about getting one in the future.
 
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odj

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Just read your build op. Nice looking shop. How do you like that atlas? Im thinking about getting one in the future.
Thanks!

It's been great. I've been using the hell out of it and no issues at all.

I gotta say though, if I had to get one now, I'd try and find a used lift. Prices are nuts these days.
 

DeeDubz

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Thanks!

It's been great. I've been using the hell out of it and no issues at all.

I gotta say though, if I had to get one now, I'd try and find a used lift. Prices are nuts these days.
ive been looking for a used one. Everything ive found theres not much of price difference. Most of the sellers want what a new one cost. I can pick up an atlas a few hrs away for just over 3k. I think its a 10k two post. My foundation is 4inch which is the minimum required for the lift. Everything as far as prices these days are nuts.
 

SuburbanDad

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NoVA
Hey odj,

Looks like it's been a while since your last post. Hope everything is going well.

I enjoyed reading about your garage build.

Just wanted to say I'm local to your general area of the world and might be an easy target for someone to get to a road course for the first time. I have a C5Z, which is certainly too much car for a newb like me, but I am full of shame owning it and never having taken it to the track. One of these days...
 
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odj

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I can't believe it's been over six years since I finished ("finished" lol) the shop. I have to say it was one of the best decisions I ever made with regards to the house. Going through Covid with a newborn sucked a lot of the time, and it was nice to have a space I could retreat to when I was (frequently) overstimulated. Since then, I've done a crapload of work in the shop, from maintenance to fabrication (taught myself to TIG and 3D print parts). We've had parties and happy hours at the house where most of the fun stuff happens in the shop. I've helped friends fix their cars. I've spent countless late nights while my kid is asleep tinkering on things in the shop.

We just bought a new place and are slowly moving between spaces. I'm back perusing the forum looking for inspiration, as the new place we bought has just a carport, and I plan on building a shop in its place. I'll start a thread on that separately though.

I've been meaning to come back and update this thread with the good and bad of how I set everything up, to help those of you who're looking at this thread for inspiration or ideas. So, here we go:

Things that have worked out well:

1. Placement - I really like how the shop sits on the lot. Having the garage door visible from the back door, and not walking out into the side of the garage was always a big thing for me. I'm glad I stuck to that. Leaving space between the shop and the fence so I could fit a mower in there worked well. Not that I planned it or could really see how I'd do it differently, but having the door facing south was a plus - that southern exposure light is great.​
2. Having it onsite - I'd tossed around the idea of renting a space, but nothing beats the ability to pack up when you're tired and walk inside, or to go outside and break things for a couple hours when the mood hits you.​
3. Drainage - We have some underground springs, and I'm at the bottom corner of the block, so we have runoff to deal with, too. Prior to the build the back yard would develop swampy spots and invite a lot of mosquitoes. Tying in the house and garage downspouts and installing a ground drain in the lowest portion between the shop and the hill out back has helped to keep the yard dry. I'm really glad we did that.​
4. Roof height - this one's kind of a "no duh" kinda situation, but I'd gone back and forth between 10' and 12' ceiling heights. I ended up with 12.5', and I'm glad I did. Having a full height lift installed allowed me to stand upright under a car (I'm 6'1"), and that's made a world of difference as I've done a ton of jobs that required undercar work.​
5. Having a lift - very, very glad I did that. If you have the opportunity to install one and do a lot of work on your cars, it's an invaluable tool. A couple of screw jacks and some tall drain/storage things for oil and coolant were great accessories.​
6. Insulation (building/foundation) & HVAC – The air seal/insulation combo with heat and AC made the garage a great space to work in in all weather. It was well worth the extra cost.​
7. Door/window location - having the door and only window face the house allowed me to keep track of what was going on, and monitor the ingress points with my security cameras.​
8. Matching the siding/style to the house - While the shop is pretty big, especially in relation to the small house, everything looks like it's supposed to be there, and presents really nicely and cohesively.​
9. Storage up high on the walls - Installing those shelves allowed me to keep boxes and bins and all manner of **** up off the floor.​
10. Doing the permits & electrical myself - I really enjoy learning new things, and valued the experiences of going through the design and permit processes. I'm maybe a little OCD so having things exactly the way I wanted them worked out really well. And the experience I got from doing the electrical (mostly) myself has paid off - I just got done doing a panel/meter base/service disconnect permit/install myself at the new house, and saved myself a **** ton of money. Being my own GC on the shop project allowed me to bid out stuff like insulation which helped me save money, too.​
11. Toolbox location - Having the toolbox roughly in the middle of the back wall was a good call. It was close enough to everywhere I worked, and not having to open drawers in front of the car/truck while working on it gave me additional space to work.​
12. Power on the lift - Having a quad and a 240 outlet on the lift post was convenient. I could plug in a vacuum, or a welder, (or whatever) centrally in the shop and have room to use either where I needed them.​
13. Amenities - having a PC, stereo, and fridge in the garage made it more useful and enjoyable. Heck, the garage was my "office" a lot of the time. Made for some interesting conversations during meetings - I found out a few of my coworkers are car guys :)
14. Filter fan - A few years ago I welded up a simple frame to mate a box fan to a large HEPA filter. It helped keep the dust down in the garage, and even helped eliminate some odors.​
15. Big LED light outside - that dusk to dawn light kept the driveway and street well lit. We don't have a street light near the house unfortunately. I'm glad I did that.​
16. Not painting/coating the floor. I had a lot of people try to talk me into this, but I've not once wished I had decking or a floor coating or anything really. Sure, the 4k PSI concrete gets slick if you have wet feet, but meh. As you can tell I'm not a show garage kinda guy :)


Things I wish I'd done differently:

1. Lift placement - In an effort to save space, I moved the lift as close to the outside wall as I could while still following the manufacturer's requirements for spacing from the edge of the concrete. It's made pulling in and centering cars a pain in the ***. I should have set it up so that you could pull straight in without having to do a 12 point shimmy. That would have eaten some space up on the right side of the garage, but I could have put the workbench along the back wall instead. I also could have walked around the left side of the lift comfortably - that space ended up being material storage, so when the garage was full of **** (thanks somewhat to my wife LOL) I had to move things around to walk comfortably around the lift while I had a car up there.​
2. Storage racks, placement of benches - that brings me to the next point. I scored the 4' deep storage racks at a hell of a deal - it came out to $250 for the setup I have once I sold the second rack to a guy who runs a shop and did some work for me. I should have just lined the back wall with 3' deep x 10' or 12' high racks, and built out workbenches on those. I would have had more width in the non-lift bay to open doors and get in/out of cars.​
3. Drywall situation - I should never have "finished" the drywall myself. It's just one of those jobs I keep doing but never get all that great at. If I could go back in time, I would have done the walls in OSB and put a 1/4" layer of drywall over top, and have someone else mud it.​
4. I should have widened the apron - this was something I didn't think about at all in the design process. I just set the existing apron as a hard point in my head. It made shuffling cars around, and parking the trailer in the yard a pain. I should have widened the apron as much as possible so I could easily pull in/out of both bays.​
5. Ceiling vent/air circulation system - having an air-sealed garage is great until you do stinky/fumey things. Any time I pulled a car in or out (especially the non-catalyzed ones) I had to open the window and run the fans to clear out the CO, else my smoke detector would go off. I also never wanted to use brake kleen while the door was shut. I like getting a little buzz from time to time, but not that kinda buzz.​
6. Course of brick/knee wall - this is more of a peace of mind thing than anything else. I never had any water reach the bottom of the framing, but in the instance where that ever did happen I'd be worried about the framing getting wet/rotting.​
7. The MrCool mini-split sucked. Sure, it was great when it was working. However, I had to replace two blower motors in that damn thing, despite cleaning the filters regularly and having the filter fan setup running nearly constantly. It ran low on coolant at some point, iced up, and dumped water all over my stereo, computer, monitor, and toolbox. A valve eventually failed, and I had it replaced with a better unit. Sure, it saved me some money initially, but it was a "penny wise, pound foolish" decision. Stay away.​
8. Could have had a better contractor - I had to ride him to do things the right way, and never did get the proper man door installed. Little things here and there still irk me about the work they did. Sure, I got a great price, but I would have paid more to get things more right.​
9. I could have done the cabinets better - more planning and less insistence to use pre-used stuff would have worked better. The lockers for paint storage never really did work that great, for instance.​
10. Running water - this is more of a nice to have than a need, but part of me wishes I'd taken the time to plumb water into the shop for a sink. Or maybe a warm water setup for washing cars in the winter.​
11. Better bench for the vise - I built a table for the vise out of spare wood and bits, and never quite got it super solid. In retrospect I should have cut up the spare beams I have for the storage rack and made it all metal, and bolted it to the floor.​
12. A second lift/quickjack - If I were staying there, I'd move the storage around and put in a four post lift or pick up a maxjack/quickjack sort of setup. Ideally a four post, so I could store more cars inside, and do some work on that side of the bay if needed.​

I'll probably think of some more stuff, but those are the big items.
 
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odj

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Here are some updated photos, too:

Here are some shots of the filter thing I built. It's just a box fan with the plastic removed from one side, bolted to a welded frame that takes a big *** whole-house filter. Cheap and effective.

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My first CAD/3D Printing project was turning a rando Ikea whiteboard thing my wife left in the garage into a sliding door.

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My new Daikin mini-split. No cloud management, but at least it works.

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Welding table setup. It's a little cramped, but works well.

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I learned to TIG and fabbed up an exhaust system for my Volvo.

I bought a full 2.5" headpipe back setup, but hated that it was slip fit, and it needed a provision for an O2 sensor and a cat. So I welded all of the slip fit joints, added V-band clamps, and a swappable section to put in a cat. Then painted the mild steel bits.

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I'm really proud of how that came out.

I also designed and 3d printed a bracket to hold the trans cooler lines.

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It's been on there since December and still working well.
 
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odj

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Welcome back from the other side of the Beltway...missed seeing updates on the shop build. Curious where you are relocating to....

Thanks Mark! Yeah it’s been a very busy few years with family and work and I kinda fell out of making updates, obviously. We weren't actively looking but had an opportunity fall into our lap that we couldn't pass up. It's in Alexandria, Hollindale area. And it's next door to my good buddy. His girls are my girl's good friends. '62 build, bought from the original owner. Have been busy fixing it up and slowly moving in.

That sliding whiteboard is a cool idea.

Thanks! It was a really random idea that popped in my head and it's worked out great.
 

gearhead1960

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Thanks Mark! Yeah it’s been a very busy few years with family and work and I kinda fell out of making updates, obviously. We weren't actively looking but had an opportunity fall into our lap that we couldn't pass up. It's in Alexandria, Hollindale area. And it's next door to my good buddy. His girls are my girl's good friends. '62 build, bought from the original owner. Have been busy fixing it up and slowly moving in.



Thanks! It was a really random idea that popped in my head and it's worked out great.
Cool....right near our favorite MCM neighborhood....Hollins Hills. Been to countless Estate Sales in this area. I grew up in FC so know NOVA neighborhoods very well.
 
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odj

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Cool....right near our favorite MCM neighborhood....Hollins Hills. Been to countless Estate Sales in this area. I grew up in FC so know NOVA neighborhoods very well.
Yes sir! My wife and I are big MCM fans, her more than I. Ours is just MC without the M though, but we have some cool decor we've been saving "for the next house" for years.
 

Overboost44

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I just stumbled on this thread last night due to the bump. Read it all from beginning to end and will refer back to it as I await final drawings on my garage. I am not/was not too far away from you and spent 12 years or so racing SCCA with SPR being my home track. Hope to get back to it in the near future as my kids will be graduating and I will have so much money, I won't know what to do with it :lol:

Wish I would have seen this thread a long time ago. Love the P-cars and pretty much everything you have done but the lessons learned most of all so thanks for that latest post.

I hope you continue to update at your new home and get to do things the way you want to, without the woulda, shoulda, coulda's. Bravo.
 
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odj

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
149
Location
Maryland
I just stumbled on this thread last night due to the bump. Read it all from beginning to end and will refer back to it as I await final drawings on my garage. I am not/was not too far away from you and spent 12 years or so racing SCCA with SPR being my home track. Hope to get back to it in the near future as my kids will be graduating and I will have so much money, I won't know what to do with it :lol:

Wish I would have seen this thread a long time ago. Love the P-cars and pretty much everything you have done but the lessons learned most of all so thanks for that latest post.

I hope you continue to update at your new home and get to do things the way you want to, without the woulda, shoulda, coulda's. Bravo.
If you have that much money you can easily spend it racing :D

Seriously though, if you ever want to come out just for some track days, I'm instructing with BMW these days. NCC is a really good chapter.

Good luck with the build. If I can help at all, just reach out.
 

Overboost44

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
98
Location
MD
If you have that much money you can easily spend it racing :D

Seriously though, if you ever want to come out just for some track days, I'm instructing with BMW these days. NCC is a really good chapter.

Good luck with the build. If I can help at all, just reach out.
Oh, I know how to spend money racing. The old saying, "The best way to make a small fortune in racing is to start out with a big fortune."

I really enjoyed instructing for FATT, drivers schools and a few defensive driving schools. Running the **** out of those Crown Vic's was a blast. You mentioned something like that in your post. It's the greatest joy, teaching someone else.

I may reach out to you. I have gleaned a lot of info while I have been here, but there will be many more questions.
 
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