Anyone use something like this to set toe after replacing tie rod ends?

[signcrafter]

I've always tried to measure off the frame or something on both sides to get measurements before replacing tie rods and then set them back to that measurement after. But I like to be as sure as I can and not hope things are back how they should be. Has anyone used anything like this before, https://www.amazon.com/Toplamper-Al...utomotive/dp/B0FWC4LHKB/?tag=atomicindus08-20. Seems like a fairly simple idea and can check the vehicle before replacing the tie rods and then after. Not as accurate as a true computer alignment but good enough to get to the alignment shop and probably good enough to drive on. For the cost I'm thinking they would be good to have to do quick checks when needed.

 

[jsaw]

The trouble with that is that the weight of the vehicle is not on the wheels so that the toe is not going to be accurate.
If You get a helper to hold the end of a tape measure while You measure, You will be surprised how close You can get the toe.

 

[dvblanch]

Longacre and other circle track suppliers sell some simple aluminum plates that lean against the bottom of the tires when car is on the ground. They have a couple slots at different heights at each end so a tape can be pulled across without interfering with any parts or the oil pan. Easy with two people but can be done by leaning a weight against one plate to hold it firmly to the tire.

 

[Death Row Dave]

I normally do it with an old curtain rod , some chalk , and a tape measure

 

[lilredex]

I have always measured from the grease ****** center to the screw in housing edge, and screw in the new joint, to that same dimension. Then to check toe in, use an extendable rod to measure front and back widths on the tires, 1/8" wider on the back worked on all my old Dodge trucks. That did it for me.

 

[djbmw]

I've always tried to measure off the frame or something on both sides to get measurements before replacing tie rods and then set them back to that measurement after. But I like to be as sure as I can and not hope things are back how they should be. Has anyone used anything like this before, https://www.amazon.com/Toplamper-Al...utomotive/dp/B0FWC4LHKB/?tag=atomicindus08-20. Seems like a fairly simple idea and can check the vehicle before replacing the tie rods and then after. Not as accurate as a true computer alignment but good enough to get to the alignment shop and probably good enough to drive on. For the cost I'm thinking they would be good to have to do quick checks when needed.

Yes, I made my own 25 yrs ago with a few pieces of aluminum. Its fine for setting your right and left side parallel to eachother... but dont confuse that with a proper toe alignment.

About 15 yrs ago I bought my first professional alignment machine and have upgraded a few times since then... never to bother with 'toe plates' or string again

 

[signcrafter]

Yes, I made my own 25 yrs ago with a few pieces of aluminum. Its fine for setting your right and left side parallel to eachother... but dont confuse that with a proper toe alignment.

About 15 yrs ago I bought my first professional alignment machine and have upgraded a few times since then... never to bother with 'toe plates' or string again

No confusion, just want something to get closer or check when doing repairs. If I'm doing a bunch of front end work, say inner and outer tie rods, knuckle, and ball joint. Will have everything apart and things moving around and want to be able to do a fairly close toe alignment when everything is back together.

How much of a difference would having the vehicle in the air with tires off vs weight of vehicle on ground be for toe? Is it enough of a difference to worry about? Or if the toe is good when vehicle is raised and tires off, then when you let it down the toe should stay relatively the same? I know alignments are done with vehicle at ride height and it's weight on turntables. But would be easier to make adjustments while jacked up if the wheels would stay the same toe when you lower it.

 

[zimman]

I stand back about 13' and take a look. Then I say "Looks good from my house" LOL
A $3 tape measure and a pissed off wife is cheaper.
Zim

 

[Phantomd]

I have a set of those.

When replacing TREs I measure first. Then after replacement I measure again and match the first measurements. That way you don't need to worry about the vehicles weight on the suspension.

I still take it to a real alignment place though. It's one of the few automotive tasks I don't trust myself to do in the garage. Finding a shop that does more then a toe and go can be tricky.

 

[CapriMikeC]

No confusion, just want something to get closer or check when doing repairs. If I'm doing a bunch of front end work, say inner and outer tie rods, knuckle, and ball joint. Will have everything apart and things moving around and want to be able to do a fairly close toe alignment when everything is back together.

How much of a difference would having the vehicle in the air with tires off vs weight of vehicle on ground be for toe? Is it enough of a difference to worry about? Or if the toe is good when vehicle is raised and tires off, then when you let it down the toe should stay relatively the same? I know alignments are done with vehicle at ride height and it's weight on turntables. But would be easier to make adjustments while jacked up if the wheels would stay the same toe when you lower it.

The toe will likely change a lot between loaded and hanging. It must be adjusted with the suspension loaded.

 

[djbmw]

No confusion, just want something to get closer or check when doing repairs. If I'm doing a bunch of front end work, say inner and outer tie rods, knuckle, and ball joint. Will have everything apart and things moving around and want to be able to do a fairly close toe alignment when everything is back together.

How much of a difference would having the vehicle in the air with tires off vs weight of vehicle on ground be for toe? Is it enough of a difference to worry about? Or if the toe is good when vehicle is raised and tires off, then when you let it down the toe should stay relatively the same? I know alignments are done with vehicle at ride height and it's weight on turntables. But would be easier to make adjustments while jacked up if the wheels would stay the same toe when you lower it.

A massive difference.
Even having the car empty vs having sand bags in the seats while doing an alignment makes a difference.
Bouncing the car and/or getting in/out of it while doing an alignmemt will change readings. This is why computer systems are what's used as they do real-time calculations.

 

[signcrafter]

A massive difference.
Even having the car empty vs having sand bags in the seats while doing an alignment makes a difference.
Bouncing the car and/or getting in/out of it while doing an alignmemt will change readings. This is why computer systems are what's used as they do real-time calculations.

Alright, think I'm still going to get the longacre set to be able to check things when it's on the ground. More for a peace of mind thing for myself to be able to check things after doing repairs. I do understand that driveway DIY alignments aren't a substitute for a computer laser alignment. I did a bunch of suspension work on daughter's car a few months back and sent her to alignment shop after. But I'm the type to want to get things as close as I can after making a repair. I've always just measured from tie rod to frame or something solid before and after and it's been good enough to get it to alignment shop. But think the longacre plates would give more accurate readings vs how I've been doing it. Just makes me feel better getting it as close as possible.

 

[Milton Shaw]

As toe in/out is the fastest wearing adjustment for tires. I would always get it adjusted by an accurate machine not just ball park by eye etc.
Toe an 1/8 inch out of adjustment drags the tire 30 foot sideways each mile you drive so it's critical for it to be right. That is the figure that was quoted by Hunter reps 50 years ago and so I don't know if it's still accurate, but toe in/out is always the faster wear adjustment. Hunter used to make a set of toe plates to check toe, just set them to 0 and slowly drive the car straight over them and they would show problems without using any machine to check it.

 

[Wamsutta]

You'd still have to make two header board sections with swivel plates to go under it for measuring tow at ride height.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

I’ve just always counted the turns that the old ones come off and screw the new ones back on and then if I need too I’ll put it on the alignment machine at work and align it. I didn’t know people were doing anything differently.

 

[jayemm]

I’ve just always counted the turns that the old ones come off and screw the new ones back on and then if I need too I’ll put it on the alignment machine at work and align it. I didn’t know people were doing anything differently.

I never trusted this method because of difference of machining "lead in " thread position of new and old piece could put the stud position (up or down) 1/2 turn out when going strictly by number of turns.

 

[lilredex]

I’ve just always counted the turns that the old ones come off and screw the new ones back on and then if I need too I’ll put it on the alignment machine at work and align it. I didn’t know people were doing anything differently.

That only works when the new and old are identical, a lot of times they aren't. That's why I measure as above (#5) post.

 

[cannuck]

I stand back about 13' and take a look. Then I say "Looks good from my house" LOL
A $3 tape measure and a pissed off wife is cheaper.
Zim

Please try not to laugh too much, but this is part of what I do. When I first started as a VW mechanic I was also the guy who set up competitive cars (solo club) since we had one of the first 4 wheel setups in town. Car sat on ball bearing plates on top of stands so you could bounce the stickiness out of bushings and able to adjust without lifting. I would always cross check results by eyeballing front-to-rear and rear-to-front knowing track (spec on our own stuff, measured on other cars or other wheels). VW boxes (no racks then) had centering bolts, but that only kept steering wheel straight and locked - you still had to do front to rear to equal toe to each side. I could spot an error in a flash by eye, not always with the relatively crude (but dead simple and reliable) electric "tick boxes"

In the half century since then I have used a old Snapon toe bar and pair of rotary tables along with digital levels. Need to lift car to do adjustments most of time on cars, but seldom on trucks. You want to believe you not only need to have suspension loaded, you absolutely have to settle it on a set of skid plates to come anywhere near close. Important to measure track before you start and have clear sight lines because you need to get each side right and equal. Also have to spin up each wheel to do runout and place high and low to top and bottom. Patience and care, that's all it takes.

 

[djbmw]

Please try not to laugh too much, but this is part of what I do. When I first started as a VW mechanic I was also the guy who set up competitive cars (solo club) since we had one of the first 4 wheel setups in town. Car sat on ball bearing plates on top of stands so you could bounce the stickiness out of bushings and able to adjust without lifting. I would always cross check results by eyeballing front-to-rear and rear-to-front knowing track (spec on our own stuff, measured on other cars or other wheels). VW boxes (no racks then) had centering bolts, but that only kept steering wheel straight and locked - you still had to do front to rear to equal toe to each side. I could spot an error in a flash by eye, not always with the relatively crude (but dead simple and reliable) electric "tick boxes"

In the half century since then I have used a old Snapon toe bar and pair of rotary tables along with digital levels. Need to lift car to do adjustments most of time on cars, but seldom on trucks. You want to believe you not only need to have suspension loaded, you absolutely have to settle it on a set of skid plates to come anywhere near close. Important to measure track before you start and have clear sight lines because you need to get each side right and equal. Also have to spin up each wheel to do runout and place high and low to top and bottom. Patience and care, that's all it takes.

Also... all manual methods do not account for hub/wheel assembly runout.

All of these methods are fine for track day where you're burning 2 sets of tires in an afternoon and running on dry tarmac OR driving a few miles down the road to get it aligned.

Its not just about tire wear... but safety. A poorly aligned vehicle will pull you in unpredictable directions when you hit a bump or are driving in wet conditions.

 

[Spikes]

I stand back about 13' and take a look. Then I say "Looks good from my house" LOL
A $3 tape measure and a pissed off wife is cheaper.
Zim

Sometimes the price isn't the true cost.


I'm guessing having weight on the front only matters for independant suspension vehicles - I don't see where a solid axle would care.

 

[cannuck]

Also... all manual methods do not account for hub/wheel assembly runout.

You missed the part where I told you to dial up runout and put high and low at top and bottom.

 

[djbmw]

You missed the part where I told you to dial up runout and put high and low at top and bottom.

So you're setting up a dial indicator for each wheel and then factoring in those calculations?! I mean... if you have all the time in the world to spend on such an activity....

 

[fourjeepin]

I bought a set for use on my CJ7 but haven't used them yet. I caught some grief when asking here for opinions on them. As others stated above, they are surely better than the eyeball method I have been using the last 20 years and it’s a solid axle. None of that fancy IFS for me!

 

[zimman]

Sometimes the price isn't the true cost.


I'm guessing having weight on the front only matters for independant suspension vehicles - I don't see where a solid axle would care.

I've worked in 7 shops that had alignment racks. "Toe and Go" is a standard at smaller shops. I went to the Firestone alignment school in Chicago and they do it right. On high end cars, Mercedes, BMW and so on, bags of sand on the drivers side floorboard and get out the money.
Never found anyone that could in their own words define "caster" I have the adjusters on my workbench waiting for me. LOL PITA
If you drive more than 30-40 miles one way to work, get the real deal, lifetime alignment and do it twice a year at least. I've got one for my F250.
Everyone has a different drive.
Zim

 

[ctandc72]

Two contractor trash bags. One under each tire. Before folding them over spray some Pam or cooking spray or WD-40 or something of the like so the bags will easily move and swivel on themselves with almost no resistance.

This allows easy adjustment with car suspension at ride height / loaded.

Turn the tire on one side all the way out so you can unlock the outer tie rod lock nut. Repeat for the other side.

This will allow adjustment even on lowered cars.

Get four jack stands. Tie a string to the jack stands. Set them up so the taut string runs flush up against the outside of the rear tire. Make sure the line / stands are straight. Square the 'box' up so it's the distances are correct.

A laser line can help ensure it's straight.

Take the toe measurement off the line. Make sure steering wheel is locked in place / centered.

Adjust in small increments / bouncing the front suspension up and down a bit before taking measurements after adjustment.

I've bene doing it this way for a long time. The guy who taught me this setup cars for autocross / track sessions.

Is it a substitute for a full alignment from a good shop that knows alignments? No. But maybe some of you are lucky enough to have good alignment shops - I'm not - the once good one we had, he retired and the guy who bought the shop sets the alignment to OE specs regardless of request / preference. No thanks.

YMMV