3 phase 460v 300 amp inverter welder, what are my options to power it on residential?

[ching0n]

I'm thinking only rotary 3 phase converter would work but this being 460v, can I get away w/a 240v converter or need to up-convert using a transformer? I'm getting the welder at scrap price so I would be willing to tackle a DIY rotary phase converter if running on 240v is doable. I've read some people omitting one phase at reduced power but dunno if that's doable on 240v (schematic attached).

I'm guessing Haas Kamp phase conversion only works on transformer machines?

https://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/docs/misc/CP-200_Single-Phase_Step-By-Step.pdf

I've attached the schematic for the welder.

Thank you in advance.
edit: I'm willing to live with 150-200A output FWIW.

 

[cvairwerks]

Cost is going to make this a dumb decision. By the time you do it, you'll have more than $3000 into getting power to it. You can buy a new, multiprocess unit that runs on 240, and is in the 200 amp range, for less money.

 

[dcg9381]

Family has a 460V 3-phase saw (sawmill, on train tracks). He powers it with a 6.8L V10 (Ford) based generator.
I'm good for impractical answers.

 

[dave*99]

Brother has a 460V 3-phase saw (sawmill, on train tracks). He powers it with a 6.8L V10 (Ford) based generator.
I'm good for impractical answers.

Nailed it.

 

[purplezr2]

Welder model? Data tag?

 

[ching0n]

Cost is going to make this a dumb decision. By the time you do it, you'll have more than $3000 into getting power to it. You can buy a new, multiprocess unit that runs on 240, and is in the 200 amp range, for less money.

I can pick up phase converters in my area for ~$600 all day long....they're probably 240V output though (I'm fairly unfamiliar w/them). I hear you though, a Jasic import is probably under $1500

Welder model? Data tag?

OCT Daihen

 

[wyliesdiesels]

you will need a 240v to 480v transformer.... as well as a single phase to 3Ø phase VFD or RPC. good luck finding one that will put out enough current on a single phase circuit....

no point in buying this...

 

[ching0n]

you will need a 240v to 480v transformer.... as well as a single phase to 3Ø phase VFD or RPC. good luck finding one that will put out enough current on a single phase circuit....

no point in buying this...

Thanks, I'll pass. It came w/a cart torch, pedal, torch water cooler and some other things I figured were worth scavenging but it's not as great a deal w/o the welder at that point.

I didn't realize a VFD (as you suggest) could make one of these things work but I guess inverter feeding inverter might?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Thanks, I'll pass. It came w/a cart torch, pedal, torch water cooler and some other things I figured were worth scavenging but it's not as great a deal w/o the welder at that point.

I didn't realize a VFD (as you suggest) could make one of these things work but I guess inverter feeding inverter might?

inverter feeding an inverter? not sure what you mean by that.

i doubt you will find a VFD that can do single phase input and 480v output.... so you would need a transformer which wont be cheap for 200-300a load.

 

[LOW1]

Brother has a 460V 3-phase saw (sawmill, on train tracks). He powers it with a 6.8L V10 (Ford) based generator.
I'm good for impractical answers.

Damn. Pictures? What’s he cut? Full size redwoods?

I bet he’s the sort of guy who would spring for the extra $1.09 and put 20 amp outlets on his 12 gu wire.

 

[dcg9381]

Damn. Pictures? What’s he cut? Full size redwoods?

No redwoods in Texas. Cyprus, oak, pecan... Largely mills 100+ year old trees or trees that had "historical" value to their owners. Or an exceptional sized tree. All recycled. They don't cut anything live.



Dries it out, some wholesaling of "large slabs":



Builds super-high end furniture (custom) for clients.

I bet he’s the sort of guy who would spring for the extra $1.09 and put 20 amp outlets on his 12 gu wire.

I don't think the 20A outlet type is the big shop concern, but I think you called it right.

 

[dave*99]

Damn. Pictures? What’s he cut? Full size redwoods?

I bet he’s the sort of guy who would spring for the extra $1.09 and put 20 amp outlets on his 12 gu wire.

He might also be the one guy with a tool that has a 20A plug on it.

 

[Shiftless]

Even for Garage Journal, where overkill is often considered barely adequate, that band saw is INCREDIBLE !!

 

[William Payne]

The reason 3 phase machines can be had at such a bargain is because most people do not have 3 phase so the only people buying them are people working professionally in which case they are more likely to have 3 phase infrastructure or are a small number of serious enthusiasts who have spent the money either have 3 phase installed or rent some place that has it already.

However I am led to believe that even in the USA 480v is your serious industrial service and less available than lower voltage 3 phase?

My apologies for being potentially incorrect I get a bit confused by your infrastructure.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

However I am led to believe that even in the USA 480v is your serious industrial service and less an available than lower voltage 3 phase?

not always the case. sometimes there is 3 phase 480Y available in shopping complexes, strip malls and large malls. the reason being the buildings are large, electric service comes in at one end or the middle and the service wires have a long way to travel so having a higher available voltage cuts down on voltage drop....

 

[William Payne]

not always the case. sometimes there is 3 phase 480Y available in shopping complexes, strip malls and large malls. the reason being the buildings are large, electric service comes in at one end or the middle and the service wires have a long way to travel so having a higher available voltage cuts down on voltage drop....

Thank you for the clarification. While not industrial as far as zoning. That kind of heavy commercial use would make complete sense. Higher the supply voltage the less current you can get away with.

 

[txvwnut]

I can pick up phase converters in my area for ~$600 all day long....they're probably 240V output though (I'm fairly unfamiliar w/them). I hear you though, a Jasic import is probably under $1500

OCT Daihen

For a few bucks more you can get a new machine that will plug right up to your current service.

NEW 2025 AHP AlphaTIG 225Xi

Description: Now with HV Start (Electronic, solid state simulated HF, no point gap to manage and maintain), and updated internal software, components and controls. NOVA 2.0 torches with new Silicone Ultra Flexible Lines are included as well. The AlphaTIG 225Xi is a modern AC/DC TIG/Stick...

ahpwelds.com

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Thank you for the clarification. While not industrial as far as zoning. That kind of heavy commercial use would make complete sense. Higher the supply voltage the less current you can get away with.

the 480v is only typically used for HVAC and refrigeration. It gets stepped down in individual suites to 208Y/120 for small loads.

 

[alfredeneuman]

They also use 277V for lighting (the line to neutral voltage of 480V/Wye connected systems)

 

[nadogail]

The reason 3 phase machines can be had at such a bargain is because most people do not have 3 phase so the only people buying them are people working professionally in which case they are more likely to have 3 phase infrastructure or are a small number of serious enthusiasts who have spent the money either have 3 phase installed or rent some place that has it already.

However I am led to believe that even in the USA 480v is your serious industrial service and less an available than lower voltage 3 phase?

My apologies for being potentially incorrect I get a bit confused by your infrastructure.

IMHO, you are"Spot On"

 

[jar944]

The reason 3 phase machines can be had at such a bargain is because most people do not have 3 phase so the only people buying them are people working professionally in which case they are more likely to have 3 phase infrastructure or are a small number of serious enthusiasts who have spent the money either have 3 phase installed or rent some place that has it already.

However I am led to believe that even in the USA 480v is your serious industrial service and less available than lower voltage 3 phase?

My apologies for being potentially incorrect I get a bit confused by your infrastructure.

And because of that 480v only equipment is dirt cheap compared to lower voltage or dual voltage 3ph equipment.