Wacky idea of the day - suction down vice stand

[gotham]

Ok. Bad idea coming at you. I want to be able to have a vice stand that I can move out of the way when not needed. I have radiant tubing in the floor so I'm not super excited about drilling into the floor. I was thinking of making a concrete block with a post that I could move around with my pallet jack. This one is 24" x 14" x 6" and would weigh 150 lbs. For heavy work I was thinking I could get a small vacuum pump and suction this thing down to the floor which is pretty smooth and flat. I could get something like 2 ft^3 so even an imperfect vacuum would give a ton (perhaps literally) of clamping force. I'm thinking about doing a cast concrete sink so this might be a good starter project. Potential seal from Mcmaster also pictured. Tell me I'm an idiot.

 

[MichaelP]

What are the dimensions of the post and the size of your vise? Do you really need more stability of the base while the post will be vibrating anyway?

 

[kbuhagiar]

I'd be more concerned of the consequences of a catastrophic failure of the suction while under under a maximum stress event (such as hammering or prying), possibly causing personal injury.

 

[larry_g]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEngineers/comments/1htkewi
The above is a discussion about vacuum lifting. You mention a small vacuum pump. That has me thinking of two problems. One is the the CFM it will produce to overcome the leaks that are inherent in your design. You will never achieve a perfect seal. Second is all the debris you will **** up that will ruin the pump if they are not filtered out.

I like your idea in theory but the practically and the hurdles you have to over come to make it work are big.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[gotham]

I drew a 3x3x.120 steel post but it could be bigger. I don't see this as a weakness in the design.

Overcoming the seal could happen all at once which would be dangerous.

I hadn't thought about debris in the system. I've used a venturi vacuum generator for vacuum clamping small parts on a milling machine and also for vacuum bagging composites. That would help with junk in the system although a filter is probably smart anyway.

This isn't in the top ten on my projects list but failure of the vacuum system would just mean I have a heavy base for the vice.

Does anyone have experience with CSA (rapid set) concrete? I'm looking forward to the sink project where shrinking and cracking are not desirable.

 

[civicissuecesar]

Ok. Bad idea coming at you. I want to be able to have a vice stand that I can move out of the way when not needed. I have radiant tubing in the floor so I'm not super excited about drilling into the floor. I was thinking of making a concrete block with a post that I could move around with my pallet jack. This one is 24" x 14" x 6" and would weigh 150 lbs. For heavy work I was thinking I could get a small vacuum pump and suction this thing down to the floor which is pretty smooth and flat. I could get something like 2 ft^3 so even an imperfect vacuum would give a ton (perhaps literally) of clamping force. I'm thinking about doing a cast concrete sink so this might be a good starter project. Potential seal from Mcmaster also pictured. Tell me I'm an idiot.

honestly not the dumbest idea ive heard, but id be nervous about side loads and shock loads breaking vacuum at the worst possible time. for light duty maybe, but for actual vise abuse id probably trust some kind of mechanical floor lock a lot more than suction alone.

 

[GeoBruin]

I think it's a great idea. I was already intrigued by the idea of vacuum holding applications in the shop, and then I picked up a dewalt cordless vacuum lifter for moving aluminum plate/sheet around in my shop. Its frankly mind-boggling how much force the little thing makes. I'm going to pick up another one at some point and make a vacuum mag drill base.

I'd love to see where this goes if you do it. My only suggestion is use a stiffer/more durable seal than you think will be necessary. The vacuum will privilege plenty of squish, and you don't want a blowout.

 

[APEowner]

Interesting idea. The failure mode is concerning. I also wonder about the need to have a vacuum pump running whenever the vice is being used.

I think you're going to want a short stiff seal. Perhaps even something that's flush with the surface until vacuum is applied and ***** it out of the groove. Anything that stick out is going to be pinched and ground between the base and the floor whenever the stand is moved.

 

[mngundog]

Ok. Bad idea coming at you. ............... Tell me I'm an idiot.

This sounds like an idea, thought up by an engineer.

 

[LXCam]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEngineers/comments/1htkewi
The above is a discussion about vacuum lifting. You mention a small vacuum pump. That has me thinking of two problems. One is the the CFM it will produce to overcome the leaks that are inherent in your design. You will never achieve a perfect seal. Second is all the debris you will **** up that will ruin the pump if they are not filtered out.

I like your idea in theory but the practically and the hurdles you have to over come to make it work are big.

lg
no neat sig line

I’m leaning towards Larry’s comments. I have a vacuum base system for our Hilti coring drill. Obviously this was engineered and tested for non-destructive mounting use. Problem is it’s sketchy and has released on way more then one occasion. It’s never been tried on a vertical surface after releasing on the floor one time, I won’t allow it.

If you go this route just don’t put yourself in a bad position please

 

[RTM]

think you're going to want a short stiff seal. Perhaps even something that's flush with the surface until vacuum is applied and ***** it out of the groove. Anything that stick out is going to be pinched and ground between the base and the floor whenever the stand is moved.

We have air inflated seals on things, might be the answer. Air behind the seal inflates it, then the vacuum holds it to the floor.

 

[cvairwerks]

Why not hit the local steel supplier and find some 1" or thicker drops and simply stack them on your base plate? Weld a couple of wheels on one side and then tip and roll when you need to move. Whole lot less complicated to deal with and you don't have to worry about the concrete being flat and sealed where you want the vise stand.

 

[Sumboodie]

IR cameras are fairly cheap and can see the floor tubes.

 

[pcrov]

then I picked up a dewalt cordless vacuum lifter

That's exactly where my mind went. It'll maintain the vacuum automatically and even has steel mount points to work from:


Whatever happens I wanna see video.