Calling Garage Door Experts - What Do I Have?

[larry4406]

I have an 8x8 insulated garage door, tracks, hardware, spring, etc.

I have no idea who made it. I need specs for winding the torsion spring.

This was installed on a townhouse during COVID times to get an inspection. Once the spec’d door was finally received weeks later, it was removed and I nabbed it.

Fast forward 6-8 years, it’s time to install this at my barn.

I don’t know the number of turns needed on the torsion spring. Wind till the white painted line is straight?

There is absolutely ZERO part numbers or markings on the door panels or tracks.

When I nabbed this, the removed hardware was in a CHI Garage Door box but that is likely from the replacement door which may be different.

Thoughts? Yes I want to install this myself. I have the winding rods. I installed the existing door.

 

[The Cobbler]

I think you can get the right winds by trial & error. once the door is balanced or a tad heavy you're there

 

[jstroede]

funny you showed a ton of pictures, but not one of probably the most important thing, the cable drum.

The cable drum and door height will determine the turns. It SHOULD be a 400-8 drum and I would start about 8.5 turns, but I would need to see the cable drum to confirm that.

 

[WildBill]

As The Cobbler said, just put it up then adjust it.

 

[larry4406]

funny you showed a ton of pictures, but not one of probably the most important thing, the cable drum.

The cable drum and door height will determine the turns. It SHOULD be a 400-8 drum and I would start about 8.5 turns, but I would need to see the cable drum to confirm that.

What do you want to see in the drum ? I can take more pictures

 

[larry4406]

I think you can get the right winds by trial & error. once the door is balanced or a tad heavy you're there

As The Cobbler said, just put it up then adjust it.

Really hoping to avoid a trial and error solution.

 

[The Cobbler]

any garage door I've seen installed required tweaking of the winds at the end

 

[larry4406]

funny you showed a ton of pictures, but not one of probably the most important thing, the cable drum.

The cable drum and door height will determine the turns. It SHOULD be a 400-8 drum and I would start about 8.5 turns, but I would need to see the cable drum to confirm that.

Here you go. Let me know if anything clicks for you.

 

[larry4406]

And more

 

[larry4406]

any garage door I've seen installed required tweaking of the winds at the end

Understood.

I would prefer to start with knowledge knowing the target, then perhaps one tweak vs 50+ tweaks…..

Existing door is a Wayne Dalton. I took it out of a garage before we demo’d it. I counted the spring 1/4 turns when I unwound it. Installed it in my barn and wound it back the same and it worked perfect first time.

 

[gizardlizard]

Sure looks like an Ideal brand door to me. Very common at Menards. I’ve installed lots of them.

 

[larry4406]

Sure looks like an Ideal brand door to me. Very common at Menards. I’ve installed lots of them.

I got ahold of the Production Manager that oversaw the job I got it from. He thinks it was an Amarr Lincoln style door.

I need to study the manual better on my desktop screen, but the track bearing setup in the manual I downloaded sure looks like it.

I then called the door contractor who was assigned to that community. He didn’t recall the event, but said as a rule of thumb, take the door height and multiple by the number of winding holes in the cone on the torsion spring.

So 8’ * 4 = 32 quarter turns (8 turns total). He said depending on prior usage, might need more 1/4 turns.

So this jives with the aforementioned 8.5 turns.

Maybe tomorrow I will fool with it.

 

[jstroede]

Holy **** that's picture overload. I like it!

Yes that is a standard 400-8 drum. Put 8.5 turns on it. You might have to add another quarter turn, but safer to add then overwind it to start. When you start, the painted line on the spring should be straight. That rule of thumb is for guys that only work on residential doors with 4" drums.

 

[mm08822]

I have 2 Amarr doors doors with the torsion spring set-up....8' x 7'h.

Same drums - seems like a common industry part. Each wrap of the drum (circumference) is 12". So for an 8'h door you would be putting 8.5 - 9 wraps on the drum. (So you will need a little tension to keep the cables from slacking when door full open.)

Assemble the rails and door panels in place.

Verify as best you can that rails are parallel of the vertical and horizontal. Tweak as needed before permanently lagging to framing.

Put both springs on the torsion bar - either side of the center support bearing. Note: there is a left and right wind spring!!
Only secure each spring at the center support. Leave both ends loose able to rotate freely on the torsion bar.

Put the drums on each end of the torsion bar so each cable will unwind in the same drum rotation direction. Just hand tighten each for now
Connect the cables to each drum from the bottom panel and wind each drum by hand to take up any slack. I use channel locks to apply an equal torque to each drum to tension each cable equally. With the cables tensioned, tighten the set screws between drum and rod.

Draw a line on each spring from end-end. As you wind each spring, the line will distort like a barber pole. You are done winding each spring when you can count 32 -34 chalk marks on each spring.

Now you need 2 tension bars to wind the springs. Be very cautious as you can break your face or collar bone if you mess up and one bar tries unwind if the other slips out of the fitting!!

When you are done, the door should almost float upward from closed position. If it does on its own, then you have too many wraps on each spring.

 

[larry4406]

Holy **** that's picture overload. I like it!

Yes that is a standard 400-8 drum. Put 8.5 turns on it. You might have to add another quarter turn, but safer to add then overwind it to start. When you start, the painted line on the spring should be straight. That rule of thumb is for guys that only work on residential doors with 4" drums.

Thank you.

Oddly the painted line on it is spiraled right now. It does not appear to be under any torsion right now.

Single spring design.

 

[mm08822]

Thank you.

Oddly the painted line on it is spiraled right now. It does not appear to be under any torsion right now.

Single spring design.

Draw yourself a new line with chalk. PM sent.

 

[larry4406]

I have 2 Amarr doors doors with the torsion spring set-up....8' x 7'h.

Same drums - seems like a common industry part. Each wrap of the drum (circumference) is 12". So for an 8'h door you would be putting 8.5 - 9 wraps on the drum. (So you will need a little tension to keep the cables from slacking when door full open.)

Assemble the rails and door panels in place.

Verify as best you can that rails are parallel of the vertical and horizontal. Tweak as needed before permanently lagging to framing.

Put both springs on the torsion bar - either side of the center support bearing. Note: there is a left and right wind spring!!
Only secure each spring at the center support. Leave both ends loose able to rotate freely on the torsion bar.

Put the drums on each end of the torsion bar so each cable will unwind in the same drum rotation direction. Just hand tighten each for now
Connect the cables to each drum from the bottom panel and wind each drum by hand to take up any slack. I use channel locks to apply an equal torque to each drum to tension each cable equally. With the cables tensioned, tighten the set screws between drum and rod.

Draw a line on each spring from end-end. As you wind each spring, the line will distort like a barber pole. You are done winding each spring when you can count 32 -34 chalk marks on each spring.

Now you need 2 tension bars to wind the springs. Be very cautious as you can break your face or collar bone if you mess up and one bar tries unwind if the other slips out of the fitting!!

When you are done, the door should almost float upward from closed position. If it does on its own, then you have too many wraps on each spring.

Thank you.

The top torsion bar is currently fully assembled with center support, drums, and single torsion spring in place.

 

[mm08822]

See if the one spring will do. You can change later if spring life and/or door lifts slightly uneven.

Just make sure the spring is on the correct side of the center support.

 

[larry4406]

See if the one spring will do. You can change later if spring life and/or door lifts slightly uneven.

Just make sure the spring is on the correct side of the center support.

Got it.

The manual shows a painted red end of the spring/cone on the left side looking out. I will follow that.

This door was only in place for about 1 month between inspections and settlement. Customer’s FHA loan would not close without a garage door in place.

The current top shaft assembly is still assembled with drums, spring, center support, etc all in original assembled order.

The 8x8 wood Wayne Dalton that’s coming out has a single spring. Interestingly it’s on the right side looking out.

 

[Wrench97]

Single spring on a 8x8 is pretty common.
Dock doors were usually 10x10 uninsulated and had a single spring.
I want to say 8 full turns and test that usually got me pretty close when I had repair one years ago....

 

[WildBill]

Really hoping to avoid a trial and error solution.

I installed them for a living a long time ago, we always had to adjust them once installed.

 

[larry4406]

I installed them for a living a long time ago, we always had to adjust them once installed.

True. But you started with a very close initial guess.

If you had no idea it was ~8.5 turns to begin with it would be a real PIA.

 

[nadogail]

Once More the collective knowledge of Garage Journal shows its true value.

 

[manwithtools]

Egads @larry4406 , please spring for a new measuring tape.

 

[larry4406]

Egads @larry4406 , please spring for a new measuring tape.

Dan - we are on a budget up here!

I can still see the the lines!

Yeah it is a POS, but it was in the barn and I did not feel like going back to find a better one.

 

[BillK]

I have done three

True. But you started with a very close initial guess.

If you had no idea it was ~8.5 turns to begin with it would be a real PIA.

I have installed-replaced three doors in my lifetime and they were all 16' doors with 2 springs. I never even knew that there was a way to know how many turns to start with. I just started cranking them up a few turns at a time until the door started to come up on its own and went from there.

 

[Uncle murph]

I have an 8x8 insulated garage door, tracks, hardware, spring, etc.

I have no idea who made it. I need specs for winding the torsion spring.

This was installed on a townhouse during COVID times to get an inspection. Once the spec’d door was finally received weeks later, it was removed and I nabbed it.

Fast forward 6-8 years, it’s time to install this at my barn.

I don’t know the number of turns needed on the torsion spring. Wind till the white painted line is straight?

There is absolutely ZERO part numbers or markings on the door panels or tracks.

When I nabbed this, the removed hardware was in a CHI Garage Door box but that is likely from the replacement door which may be different.

Thoughts? Yes I want to install this myself. I have the winding rods. I installed the existing door.

1 full turn per foot always works for me.

 

[larry4406]

The installation manual from Amarr (which appears to be what I have) specifies 8.5 turns for the 8' door so that is where I plan to set it.

Good to see that advice from others matches the manual.

 

[carcruse]

if you can read that number on the spring, write it down and file it away in case you need a new one in the future, especially if you're not sure of the brand.

 

[BurtEggley]

somewhat puzzled. You indicate that it is assembled but I did not see a cable on the drum. It sounds like it is partially assembled. When everything is working right, it should balance neutral about 2' off the gound. If it has two springs, each needs the same number of turns. Those springs can seriously hurt someone so take your time and think each step thru. No one gets under the door while you are working on it, and until you have verified everything is properly tightened and assembled.

 

[larry4406]

somewhat puzzled. You indicate that it is assembled but I did not see a cable on the drum. It sounds like it is partially assembled. When everything is working right, it should balance neutral about 2' off the gound. If it has two springs, each needs the same number of turns. Those springs can seriously hurt someone so take your time and think each step thru. No one gets under the door while you are working on it, and until you have verified everything is properly tightened and assembled.

The door was installed for about 4-5 weeks between inspection, bank appraisal, and prior to settlement was removed and the proper spec’d door was installed.

The removing tech did the least amount of disassembly. He unwound the spring, disconnected the cables, left drums in place, removed the upper tracks, then removed the panels, put it all in a box and said here you go.

 

[larry4406]

Door is installed.

Manual said 8.5 turns (34 quarters). This was too much and door would self raise.

Reduced it to 8 turns (32 quarters). This was not enough as door would slightly close.

Goldilocks zone was 8.25 turns (33 quarters). Easy to open and fully balanced.

 

[larry4406]

if you can read that number on the spring, write it down and file it away in case you need a new one in the future, especially if you're not sure of the brand.

I could not id the spring number.

I’ve concluded it’s an Amarr Lincoln insulated door.

 

[larry4406]

Still need to install the weather strips. Problem for another day.

Backed out wife’s zero turn to start this project. Thump thump thump.

WTF? Front right tire is flat. She mowed yesterday.

Took tire off. It’s labeled tubeless. Ok I have plugs, game on.

Fill tire, find hole, ream and install plug. Wait, something feels weird.

Turns out tire has a tube. WTF! Ugh.

Take wheel to dealer we bought mower from and explain. So now I wait till Monday for a repair. Not clear where the tube came into the equation as we didn’t do it and I don’t recall taking it to them for a prior repair.

Ferris brand zero turn with Carlisle USA tire.

So, it’s tarped outside on blocks as rain is predicted tomorrow.

 

[PCustoms]

Take wheel to dealer we bought mower from and explain. So now I wait till Monday for a repair. Not clear where the tube came into the equation as we didn’t do it and I don’t recall taking it to them for a prior repair.

Ferris brand zero turn with Carlisle USA tire.

So, it’s tarped outside on blocks as rain is predicted tomorrow.

You tackled the deadly garage door install but threw the towel in here?

 

[larry4406]

You tackled the deadly garage door install but threw the towel in here?

My wife bought the zero turn mower with her bus driver money.

I’m letting her dealer fix it.

I’m not involved this way. Been married near 37 years. I think I might understand this game by now and pick my battles accordingly.

 

[Wrench97]

How does she like the Ferris?
My buddy just bought one.

 

[BurtEggley]

great job. If you ever need springs, you can measure the length, diameter and wire size.

 

[larry4406]

How does she like the Ferris?
My buddy just bought one.

Her Ferris is a IS700Z and if if I recall correctly with a 27HP Kawasaki motor and 54" deck. She bought it May 2018.

She loves it. 4-wheel independent suspension and she zooms around the yard.

She likes to mow and weed whack, so I let her do her thing and make sure we have gas, the blades are sharp, and we have plenty of string for her Makita 36V whacker. She also has a Makita 36V chainsaw and blower that she wanted. Small concession for me not to have to fool with it all.

 

[Wrench97]

They are a nice package for sure.