Need Advice On How To Strengthen & Reinforce Old Chicken Coop (Approximately 25' x 40')

[msmit62]

We have a couple old out buildings on our property and have hired an Amish crew to help reinforce them and reroof them. We are going to do the smaller one first (see attached picture) and the bigger one probably next year. Both buildings are still in good shape but are leaning a little bit and if you look down the eaves you can see they are a little wavy. The immediate goal is not a total overhaul, that will come later, but for now just to make the buildings straight, add reinforcements to keep it straight then strip the roof and put on a metal roof. My question to you is this: what are some ways that it can be reinforced? Should I partition it off into sections by building a couple interior walls? Or should we add angled braces ("head knockers") between the ceiling and wall every few feet along the entire length of the building? Or maybe there is a better way that someone can suggest? Maybe some X-bracing in the rafters? I know someone is going to ask "what are your plans for it" and right now we keep the chickens in the east side (it's an old chicken coop) and have been using the rest as a staging area from when we moved in and did a lot of remodeling. Eventually I could see adding a couple smaller overhead doors and storing trailers there. The wife wants goats so that might be in our future too. Thanks in advance. ps: after 4:30 eastern time I'll be away from email until Monday

 

[finn]

Can’t comment unless we see how the building is constructed.

Is there a foundation? What’s the stud and rafter spacing. It there a doubl top plate?…..

 

[zendriver]

You have an Amish crew on it and you're asking for help for straightening/reinforcing here? That literally their thing.

If it's like the old "sheds" I dealt with, there is probably little/no cross bracing.

I had a small two story barn, that was being pulled off square, from a long attached lean-to. In a nut-shell I put tall vertical 4x4" on the outside, drilled through holes top/bottom, inserted large I-bolts inside and then arrange (2) cable come-along in an "X" pattern slowly cranking and hitting wood joints with a sledge to coax into square. Installed cross bracing at the ends.

You'll likely need something away from the ends maybe the usual sway brace. An interior wall(s) would help the they should be cross braced as well IKMO.

I've seen worse. good luck.

 

[The Cobbler]

I guess you need to determine what caused it to be wavy. if the post is rotted @ the base & the roof sagged as a result, and you lift the rook or prop it up & brace it, you haven't fixed anything .
Sounds like a conversation you should have with the contractors to see what they plan to do ,

 

[MoonRise]

Oh, you need a new foundation, a new slab at least 8" thick of 5000 psi air-entrained concrete with #6 rebar grid, pier footings for the two post and four post lifts, all new i-beam posts and beams, new roof purlins, and a 4 zone HVAC system. Oh, and then the new metal roof.



Slightly more seriously, check to see what is wrong (rot, foundation problem, framing undersized, all of the above, etc) and evaluate from there. Add or upgrade framing elements (or just build and frame it like it SHOULD be, having seen and walked through older structures that had 2x4 roof rafters and floor joists eek ).

 

[captain14]

There are several threads here that GJ members have documented their building saves.

Fergie is one. The derilict garage



Talonsair is another one. “My leaning tower of %*}<£€”

Use the search function and you should get several choices

 

[captain14]

There are several threads here that GJ members have documented their building saves.

Fergie is one.

Talonsair is another one

Here’s a post a made before with links. Post #30

They will give you ideas on what you need to do

Sagging garage that was "fixed" already by a flipper: is it secure?

Hello all, Question that is often covered but I may have a spin on the usual situation thanks to some "flippers" who touched our home before purchasing. Thankfully - the flip itself was very light, so we haven't had to redo too many things... but take a look at this garage. Note: I am...

www.garagejournal.com

 

[msmit62]

OK, back at work now and in front of my computer.

finn: I'll try to get some pictures for you. I don't know what the stud spacing is because the interior walls are covered with panels but I'll verify and report back. There is old knob & tube wiring inside (not live) so that may give an indication of it's age.

zenndriver: the Amish crew is giving me a couple options and I wanted to present those here for your opinions so I can make an educated decision. We haven't met yet in person to discuss this building so these were just two they mentioned on the phone. I'm sure someone will chime in here with something that I didn't think to consider like "Don't do angle braces because you'll keep hitting your head on them", etc.

Cobbler: good point, I'm not really sure why it is the way it is but I suspect because it was build like a shoebox without any interior bracing.

moonrise: lol that'll be my future shop!

captain14: thanks for the leads, I'll look them up

 

[msmit62]

Sorry for my delayed response, this fell off the radar for a while. We had that real cold spell this winter and my daughter was in basketball so not much time for outdoor projects.

The coop is 60'-ish long and runs east-west. The interior studs are 24" on center.

I met with the Amish crew about a week ago and we had some good discussions. Unless I want to partition it off by adding walls, to make it rigid they are recommending stripping the walls and adding angled bracing about one brace every 4'-8'. These braces will be 45 degrees and start a few inches below the top of the current windows and will tie into the rafters.

The interior walls have separate upper and lower 4' x 8' panels. The upper panels look to be an old brownish (water stained?) form of Celotex and the lower panels are something different…maybe something more water resistant because they had hundreds of chickens in there. He suggested I have it tested for asbestos. We will strip the walls of all these panels so we can inspect for any rotting or damage. The ceiling appears to use the same material as the upper panels on the walls and it also needs to come down.

The ceiling height probably isn't tall enough for smaller overhead doors so if I use it for rental storage in the future then we'll have to cut a large door in on the east or west end.

My goal for now is to spend what it takes (within reason) to make the building straight, strong and dry so we can preserve it. Later on we can replace the old windows, replace the interior ceiling, decide yes or no on insulation etc.

The foundation is old and cracked but is above grade so when we get heavy rain none of it, to my knowledge, gets submerged.

I know that's not a lot to go on but if anyone out there has words of wisdom please feel free to chime in because like the old saying says "I don't know what I don't know."

 

[BobnCO]

Full cross bracing will definitely help prevent/resist it from blowing over (or listing). I would not try to straighten anything except if a particular rafters or existing brace is cracked, badly bowed etc I would double up or replace. I bet one will find quite a few as they work their way through. Then priming, caulking, sealing and painting to preserve the exterior and keep moisture out. For an old building it does not look bad!

 

[mm08822]

Stripping the interior panels now would give you the best understanding of current state and repairs needed.

It's better to start out with a well defined scope of work/contract than get "extra'd" to death with change orders along the way.

 

[msmit62]

BobnCo: I want to understand what you mean. The bracing he suggested was a 45-degree brace from the wall up to the rafters. Maybe it would be 4' long? Is this what you mean by "full cross bracing"? The angle bracing could be head-knocker if one is walking along the wall but I don't know enough about my future plans for the building so adding interior walls now could limit me in the future. Does that make sense?

mm08822: I'm sure there will be some mission creep but I'm going to try hard to keep it to a minimum because we have another building to do after this one and that one is more important because a lot of my stuff is in there. This same Amish crew helped redo the actual barn last summer so that was building 1 of 3. This coop is 2 of 3 and next year will be 3 of 3.

 

[msmit62]

One more thing we're going to do: take the chimney down to at least below the roofline so the metal roof doesn't have to be notched around it.

I'll try to get a few indoor pictures posted here soon.

 

[finn]

Before you commit, why not ask for a bid to knock it down and construct a new building of more modern design.

I’ve done a rehab of a couple old garages and a house.

One of the garages was easy. We pulled the rotted old flat roof and installed trusses. Ended up with a very useable 24’x32’ garage.

The second garage was a planned tear down. I went as far as getting a demolition permit, but upon closer inspection, decided the bones were better than I thought, so I repaired some structural damage, reroofed with new decking, installed a roll up door and some surplus used siding, and got a useful storage building that was grandfathered closer to the lot line than a new structure would allow.

The third was a complete house gut job. It was on a very desirable lake lot, and, while I made money when I sold it, I could have made considerably more if I did a tear down, followed by new construction. And probably with less work, all said and done.

 

[msmit62]

finn, that's a good question and I think I have a good answer. We live in a small community and the original property was the local hatchery and chicken farm. There have even been historical publications printed at the local church and our property is on the historical list. We bought the house and property from the original family and I made them a "Gentleman's Agreement" that we would preserve what we could preserve. I'm not bound to this but saving these buildings, if they are in relatively decent shape, is the right thing to do. I did get a couple quotes to do a tear down and it was a lot more than I thought. If I recall, almost half of the cost of the work we're ramping up to do. Given these reasons, I feel pretty good about investing the time and money into saving it. Aside from all of this, my wife loves the feel of the old farm buildings.

 

[msmit62]

Attached are some pictures I took yesterday. 9916 and 9917 are the interior. I apologize for the mess but this building became a staging area when we did the initial house renovations and we stored trim, doors, insulation, wood floor, etc in it. I've been slowly purging but I have a long way to go. 9918, 9920 and 9921 show the south wall bowing out (look closely in 9918 and you'll see the eave swoop outward). 9919 shows the north wall bowing in.

 

[msmit62]

Does anyone have any advice on choosing gable vents? Plastic versus aluminum, etc. Is there a preferred brand the holds up better? I like the look of the triangular style that fit under the peak of the roof (I have to measure the roof pitch yet) but they are more expensive.

 

[Prospecter]

Attached are some pictures I took yesterday. 9916 and 9917 are the interior. I apologize for the mess but this building became a staging area when we did the initial house renovations and we stored trim, doors, insulation, wood floor, etc in it. I've been slowly purging but I have a long way to go. 9918, 9920 and 9921 show the south wall bowing out (look closely in 9918 and you'll see the eave swoop outward). 9919 shows the north wall bowing in.

Even more so than old houses, old farm buildings do not need to be made new. A little waviness is expected. Fix foundation issues. I helped my father break out a 10' section of garage foundation that had fallen in. Replaced it with a hand mixed poured footer and cement block. In another house, we used flattened coffee cans and tar to repair a steel garage c. 1930. (Come to think of it, we repaired several 60's cars that way, too!)

Your ceiling looks like tar paper. Presumably there are some joists holding up the tar paper. Some "Head Knockers" might help some of the waviness.

Your Amish crew probably has some experience dealing with old farm buildings already.

 

[Prospecter]

Does anyone have any advice on choosing gable vents? Plastic versus aluminum, etc. Is there a preferred brand the holds up better? I like the look of the triangular style that fit under the peak of the roof (I have to measure the roof pitch yet) but they are more expensive.

Only advice is that bigger is better.

 

[msmit62]

I definitely agree about bigger being better. I have to measure the roof pitch yet but after I do I'll have to determine how the surface area of a triangular but much wider vent that fits my roof compares to a large rectangular vent.

 

[Griff79]

Get stronger chickens, LOL! I crack myself up!

 

[msmit62]

lol, that bird would've kicked the tar out of the possum that snuck into the coop last fall.