Rotary phase converter to 3 phase equipment

[tbirkey214]

I get that the guysbat yhe electrical supply house are not obligated to dhow me what I need (3 places I went to) but I cant figure out exactly what i need. Ive been collecting old 3 phase stuff like a big baldor pedastle grinder, bridgeport, scotchman cold saw , do all bandsaw, and am always getting more. I run my (just got) american rotary adx 10 converter off of my 30 amp dryer(or sometimes my stove outlet which i think is 50 amp) and out to my equipment on a rolling cart. Problem is is that all of my tools I have dont have plugs... they were all hardwired and cut off from factory power.

What twist lock plug connector do I need in between my phase converter and any given tool? I dont understand 4 vs 3 prong or which amp size or anytbing!

 

[Bert_]

You have to have 4 prongs, 3 hots + ground.

I have no idea what size motors are on these machines. A 30A plug like an L15-30 would probably be best if you want to plug many different machines into the same plug.

Can't do much more than guess though without more information

 

[My Old Tools]

You have to have 4 prongs, 3 hots + ground.

I have no idea what size motors are on these machines. A 30A plug like an L15-30 would probably be best if you want to plug many different machines into the same plug.

Can't do much more than guess though without more information

That's what I use. Unless you have some huge motors, 20 amp plugs are more than adequate. 3 phases spreads out the current draw. I also put in a small 3 phase breaker panel to distribute the power.

 

[oldtractors]

It is probably not the "legal" way, but a 4 prong range plug that is supposed to be for 125/250V single phase is probably the cheapest solution. Just don't plug your your single phase range or dryer with that plug into your special 3 phase outlet.

 

[tbirkey214]

You have to have 4 prongs, 3 hots + ground.

I have no idea what size motors are on these machines. A 30A plug like an L15-30 would probably be best if you want to plug many different machines into the same plug.

Can't do much more than guess though without more information

Me and the guy from the supply house called an electrician and he said 3 prong, we both thought that was weird and didnt make sense but we're both not electricians.

 

[tbirkey214]

You have to have 4 prongs, 3 hots + ground.

I have no idea what size motors are on these machines. A 30A plug like an L15-30 would probably be best if you want to plug many different machines into the same plug.

Can't do much more than guess though without more information

What info you need?

 

[tbirkey214]

This is what we guessed i needed

 

[Dagny]

I'll do some more guessing and say you probably don't have 480 in your garage.

 

[tbirkey214]

I'll do some more guessing and say you probably don't have 480 in your garage.

This is coming from somebody who knows absolutely nothing about electrical stuff, if I used one that was rated for 480 what exactly would it do if I used it on a 220. I have been looking through some boxes the past hour and I found a a bunch of L15-30 male plugs that this guy gave me a while back. Those are rated 220v, can I just use these?

 

[Bert_]

It is probably not the "legal" way, but a 4 prong range plug that is supposed to be for 125/250V single phase is probably the cheapest solution. Just don't plug your your single phase range or dryer with that plug into your special 3 phase outlet.

I have been on sites where someone did that... No, just don't do it.

 

[Bert_]

What info you need?

Motor size!

These questions are making me think you have no business hooking this up.

 

[CGT80]

Odds are you will need

NEMA L15-30P​

Assuming you are running low voltage 3 phase.

Leviton 30 Amp, 250 Volt 3-phase, NEMA L15-30P, 3P, 4W, Locking Plug, Industrial Grade, Grounding, 2721, Black-White - Electric Plugs - Amazon.com

Leviton 30 Amp, 250 Volt 3-phase, NEMA L15-30P, 3P, 4W, Locking Plug, Industrial Grade, Grounding, 2721, Black-White - Electric Plugs - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

My tools are direct wired to vfds and are wired to run on low voltage 3ph 240v.

Check the specs and directions on your phase converter to see if it can bump up voltage.

Check the wiring on the 3 ph equipment you already run to see which way it is wired or if it has high and low.

This is basic stuff to learn on Google or youtube, so you should do some homework to get a better grasp. Electrical isn't something to be unsure about. There are charts of various nema plug configurations for reference. 3ph isn't that much more complicated and it shouldn't take too long to get familiar with how it works for you.....unless you just come off as less informed and know more than what we can see in the posts.

 

[tbirkey214]

Motor size!

These questions are making me think you have no business hooking this up.

Its my buisiness.

 

[mm08822]

Provide a list of each equipment and respective supply specs. Include voltage, current, phase, # poles, # wires.

Like the motor above, it's obvious it needs 3 phase, 230v, but what about the rest of that one equipment? Any control circuits, is there a control transformer onboard, additional motors to run simultaneously on it. This simplest answer (knowing nothing further) from this motor info only is 20A, 250v, 3 pole, 4 wire grounded plug. 4th wire being a ground. Needs to be minimum of 3 HP. L15-20P.

But again, is there more info about this one piece of equipment?

Guessing wastes everyones' time and you may get BAD INFO.

 

[tool_scrounge]

This is how I like to hook up rotary phase converters safely.

Can I even wire a rotary phase converter to this panel?

I bought a mill off of a friend super cheap and figured all I needed was a rotary phase converter and then I'm good to go. I don't really know anything electrical and I was curious do I need to have some kind of separate open circuit for this? I looked in my electrical box and I don't really...

www.garagejournal.com

If low cost is more important that how fast you can get it,, I like to buy high quality Hubble plugs and sockets as new old stock off of EBay at great discount. I really like the quality of Hubble.

If you are running on these than 15A at 240V, the NEMA L15-30P is what you want as previously suggested. You can use the 480v plugs but they are usually more expensive.

 

[tbirkey214]

This is how I like to hook up rotary phase converters safely.

Can I even wire a rotary phase converter to this panel?

I bought a mill off of a friend super cheap and figured all I needed was a rotary phase converter and then I'm good to go. I don't really know anything electrical and I was curious do I need to have some kind of separate open circuit for this? I looked in my electrical box and I don't really...

www.garagejournal.com

If low cost is more important that how fast you can get it,, I like to buy high quality Hubble plugs and sockets as new old stock off of EBay at great discount. I really like the quality of Hubble.

If you are running on these than 15A at 240V, the NEMA L15-30P is what you want as previously suggested. You can use the 480v plugs but they are usually more expensive.

Perfect, that is what I had laying around ( walked past a pile of male L15-30 plugs at an auction and asked if it could have them and guybsaid sure)... so that is what I used.

 

[tbirkey214]

Provide a list of each equipment and respective supply specs. Include voltage, current, phase, # poles, # wires.

Like the motor above, it's obvious it needs 3 phase, 230v, but what about the rest of that one equipment? Any control circuits, is there a control transformer onboard, additional motors to run simultaneously on it. This simplest answer (knowing nothing further) from this motor info only is 20A, 250v, 3 pole, 4 wire grounded plug. 4th wire being a ground. Needs to be minimum of 3 HP. L15-20P.

But again, is there more info about this one piece of equipment?

Guessing wastes everyones' time and you may get BAD INFO.

This is the list I had sent to American rotary when I was looking at phase converters, and is basically stillnwhatbi have. To be honest, I dont even know how I would go about seeing if it has a controll transformer or circuits. Not teying to make this hard, but that's above me and I dont even know what that means lol. There are no other equipment as in outside sources of power or units that go with these stand alone machines.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I see no problem with the L15-30 - it's the "least wrong" you can be. Just remember it's not a rated disconnect for motor loads, so hopefully you've got another way to shut them down that's easily accessible.

no one's going to be able to plug the "wrong" thing into an L15-30 by mistake (it'll take them serious effort). that's kinda my bar for these home shop judgements.

My personal preference is to put a 1ø-3ø VFD on my small appliances and plug them into standard outlets. I would rather not deal with a rotary at all.

 

[Cruzan80]

Not teying to make this hard, but that's above me and I dont even know what that means lol.

This is why others are saying that you need to hire someone. The power levels at 3ph equipment are nothing to mess around with. If you don't know what a control circuit is, you probably shouldn't be messing with in-depth wiring without reading up a bunch and asking specific questions.

 

[tbirkey214]

I see no problem with the L15-30 - it's the "least wrong" you can be. Just remember it's not a rated disconnect for motor loads, so hopefully you've got another way to shut them down that's easily accessible.

no one's going to be able to plug the "wrong" thing into an L15-30 by mistake (it'll take them serious effort). that's kinda my bar for these home shop judgements.

My personal preference is to put a 1ø-3ø VFD on my small appliances and plug them into standard outlets. I would rather not deal with a rotary at all.

Please enlighten me on what a rated disconectbfor motor loads means. Are you saying i need a switch?

 

[tbirkey214]

This is why others are saying that you need to hire someone. The power levels at 3ph equipment are nothing to mess around with. If you don't know what a control circuit is, you probably shouldn't be messing with in-depth wiring without reading up a bunch and asking specific questions.

I appreciate the concern, but show me the way forward on what I need to consider. Is this really considered in depth wiring??? Its a male and female plug.

A talked to an electrician yesterday and he said just throw a plug and rock it.

 

[Cruzan80]

I was referring to the part where you were unable to identify control wiring or a transformer. A transformer is a block with multiple windings, allowing you to "convert" voltages. Control wiring refers to stop/start buttons, contactors, etc.

It was less about what plug, and more about the rest of the situation. None of it was meant to be mean, just at these power levels, you can get seriously hurt.

 

[Cruzan80]

Please enlighten me on what a rated disconectbfor motor loads means. Are you saying i need a switch?

A motor rated disconnect means that it is able to be disconnected safely while the motor is under load (running). Officially, all plugs must be rated at a certain level to meet code.

It is up to you if you do not want to follow code ratings, but I would only disconnect when the motor is not drawing power in that case.

 

[rsanter]

Do you plan to keep the machines mobile?
if the answer is no, then I would install the RPC converter somehwere out of the way. Then run surface mount conduit around the shop to boxes near the machines.
then when you want to run a machine you just flip a switch to power up the RPC, then go to the machine you wish to use

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Please enlighten me on what a rated disconectbfor motor loads means. Are you saying i need a switch?

an induction motor will produce a big "surge" if you unplug it while its running. that can damage your plug and socket, or arc over presenting a hazard. additionally, a it's much harder to be sure you are holding the correct cord vs knowing the disconnect you opened on your appliance was the right one to make it safe for servicing.

a disconnect will generally list what size motor it's rated for. often that number is much lower than what the listed amperage would seem to indicate. for example, take this disconnect (mcmaster-Carr 1960N1):

Switching Current 30 amp Voltage 600V AC/600V DC Switch Designation 3PDT Electrical Phase (hp) Single (3 hp @ 480V AC) Three (5 hp @ 480V AC) Three (7 1/2 hp @ 600V AC)

now if all you looked at was amps, then it would seem to be rated for:
30hp 480V 3ø
40hp 600V 3ø

but instead it's much lower.

a little of that is efficiency, but most of it is the disconnect's ability to reliably withstand loaded disconnects and the resulting arcing. if you were disconnecting a heater you could do those bigger numbers I listed.

 

[tbirkey214]

Do you plan to keep the machines mobile?
if the answer is no, then I would install the RPC converter somehwere out of the way. Then run surface mount conduit around the shop to boxes near the machines.
then when you want to run a machine you just flip a switch to power up the RPC, then go to the machine you wish to use

I rent

 

[tbirkey214]

A motor rated disconnect means that it is able to be disconnected safely while the motor is under load (running). Officially, all plugs must be rated at a certain level to meet code.

It is up to you if you do not want to follow code ratings, but I would only disconnect when the motor is not drawing power in that case.

Ok , so dont be yanking the cord out?

 

[tbirkey214]

I was referring to the part where you were unable to identify control wiring or a transformer. A transformer is a block with multiple windings, allowing you to "convert" voltages. Control wiring refers to stop/start buttons, contactors, etc.

It was less about what plug, and more about the rest of the situation. None of it was meant to be mean, just at these power levels, you can get seriously hurt.

Totally understand.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Ok , so dont be yanking the cord out?

this is an NEC thing, and as many know, much of the NFPA/NEC is written in blood.

 

[Cruzan80]

Ok , so dont be yanking the cord out?

U3b answered after me, and had a much more in depth answer. But yes, don't yank the cord out!

 

[CGT80]

Please enlighten me on what a rated disconectbfor motor loads means. Are you saying i need a switch?

You coud have googled that!

I highlighted your request and hit search, on my phone in the firefox browser. Google AI explained it at the top of the page, fairly well.

You would learn a little more about what you are dealing with. Some people are too lazy to do any reading on their own, or maybe too busy, but it doesn't take a lot of effort to find the basics.

Electricity isn't something to be lazy about.

 

[tbirkey214]

You coud have googled that!

I highlighted your request and hit search, on my phone in the firefox browser. Google AI explained it at the top of the page, fairly well.

You would learn a little more about what you are dealing with. Some people are too lazy to do any reading on their own, or maybe too busy, but it doesn't take a lot of effort to find the basics.

Electricity isn't something to be lazy about.

I did and it showed me disconnector switches, what I couldn't find is what exactly they were rating or why or how they were rated. Always ask a human. Most of the time i skip Google Ai because half the time it is pulling from **** sources that hit a few keywords. Last time I used it it told me to put several gallons of motor oil in my truck.

 

[CGT80]

My pickup takes 2.5 gallons.......it might be right in some cases.

After I posted that, I was thinking that AI is hit or miss.

Yes, Unfortunately we have to weed out the BS from AI just as we do with humans. I'm not a fan of AI, but it pops up at the top of search results. So, I use it to narrow down the search and then go looking for a reasonable source. The AI list it's sources, so I will sometimes click and check for myself to see if the source is good. After getting a feel for a subject and searching for answers, I will resort to posting for other people to help if I'm still not sure.

Do you know how to control motor rotation direction on 3 phase? That will be a consideration when you wire in the plugs.

 

[rsanter]

I rent

I mean do you want to place them and leave them there or will you be moving them around in the shop/garage?
I am short on space so I have my stuff mobile so I can move things around to suite the job I am doing

you can patch walls from the screw holes or you can use drop cords if you have an open ceiling. Even if you use plugs you can leave everything plugged in if you are not moving them around and just turn on what you want to use

 

[tbirkey214]

Okay we got everything working, I'll probably update the cart and not enclose it with solid wall but find the way to breathe. We ended up using a four wire 50 amp 3 phase plug and just kind of winged it with the stuff that we got on here and it's working good. I called around a bit and double checked with the manufacturer and how many amps it takes and all that kind of stuff and everything worked out pretty well. Thank you guys, now I have my 2 Cold saws working and now I can test some other equipment.

Heres a bonus... im jumping on this baldor grinder next to see it she runs but it has alot of wiresnin it... is this 3 ph power and single phase for the 110 lights maybe?

 

[Norcal]

This thread needs to be in the electrical forum.

 

[cpakalolo]

I get that the guysbat yhe electrical supply house are not obligated to dhow me what I need (3 places I went to) but I cant figure out exactly what i need. Ive been collecting old 3 phase stuff like a big baldor pedastle grinder, bridgeport, scotchman cold saw , do all bandsaw, and am always getting more. I run my (just got) american rotary adx 10 converter off of my 30 amp dryer(or sometimes my stove outlet which i think is 50 amp) and out to my equipment on a rolling cart. Problem is is that all of my tools I have dont have plugs... they were all hardwired and cut off from factory power.

What twist lock plug connector do I need in between my phase converter and any given tool? I dont understand 4 vs 3 prong or which amp size or anytbing!

Frequency drives are getting quite a bit cheaper.

 

[matt_i]

Okay we got everything working, I'll probably update the cart and not enclose it with solid wall but find the way to breathe. We ended up using a four wire 50 amp 3 phase plug and just kind of winged it with the stuff that we got on here and it's working good. I called around a bit and double checked with the manufacturer and how many amps it takes and all that kind of stuff and everything worked out pretty well. Thank you guys, now I have my 2 Cold saws working and now I can test some other equipment.

Heres a bonus... im jumping on this baldor grinder next to see it she runs but it has alot of wiresnin it... is this 3 ph power and single phase for the 110 lights maybe?

You'd have to show connections inside the junction box to get a more definitive answer. Three black or three red could mean a number of things. The black could be 3 phase power. The 3 wire run/stop circuit could have a remote contactor...but that seems less likely. No grounds is bad in my estimation. The zip cord could be lighting. These are all guesses. Possibly one could clean it all up with a control transformer of appropriate size.

Also need to verify wiring to the motor to confirm it's wired for "low voltage" aka 240vac. In general if you can spot the 4-5-6 wires tied together which come out of the motor windings, you are in good shape already.