Above 1200 Sq/FT Swanny's Garage Expansion Project

[Swanny1953]

Last weekend I was able to talk my wife into going to a “Tri-5” Chevy show put on by a local club we belong to celebrating its 50th anniversary. She didn’t want to take her car as the paint isn’t perfect (there’s a bunch of fisheye in the clear), but I was able to convince her you couldn’t see the imperfections well at all in the bright sunlight. I took my ‘57 Cameo pickup, and I guess we arrived at the right time as they put us smack dab in front of the bandstand!!

There were some really nice cars here. This truck won best in show. I had forgotten the Advance Design Chevy trucks ran into 1955 before they changed the body style mid-year.

I believe this very clean Nomad was built by a former neighbor who has since passed.



The paint on this one appeared black from a distance

Until you got up close in the sunlight.

Another stunning Nomad -

And a buddy’s very nice ‘57 Coupe.

Once we got to the show, Lori told me we’d need to get gas on the way home - no big deal. However, a couple of miles into the ride home I see her fading in the distance and then my phone rings with her telling me the “car won’t go!!” She was able to pull off on an exit, but not fully out of traffic, and I had to go a few miles up the freeway before I could circle back. Once I got behind her, we were able to wrestle the “Armstrong” power steering to get her more fully out of traffic, before I determined the car wouldn’t run. My immediate suspicion was a faulty gas gauge and that we had run the car out of gas, even though the gauge showed more to an 1/8th of a tank. Once I got her loaded into the Cameo, we stopped at the first QuikTrip we saw and asked if they had any “emergency” containers they would loan out. Of course, they didn’t, and I didn’t feel like buying another gas can I didn’t need, so we drove the nearly 10 miles home to collect a gas can. Long story short, we did run it out of gas as it started right up after I let the electric pump do its priming thing. Note to self, don’t let the gas gauge in the Bel Air go below 3/8ths of a tank!! I don’t want to deal with stranding Lori along the side of the highway again!!!

 

[Swanny1953]

I guess this is my week to chase electrical gremlins.
First up - 1934 Ford. The fuel gauge has not worked since I bought it, never showing more than 1/8th of a tank, and generally empty or lower.
Hoping the easiest explanation would be the answer, I made sure there was a good ground between the sender and the master chassis ground. No love - gauge still wouldn't move when I turned the ignition on.
Next step was to see what voltage I got at the sender. With the lead for the gauge attached, the voltage was around 3.8 volts. Without the lead attached to the sender, the voltage at the lead jumped to 5.6 volts. A bit of interweb research said the reference voltage should be 5 volts. Given the disparity with the lead attached, I "jumped" to the conclusion that the sender had issues.
I met Tim Goodwin, the proprietor of Ironhorse Classics, a classic restoration and performance speed shop, at the car show I went to on Sunday and had a chance to discuss this briefly with him. He suggested I hook up an ohm meter and then drain gas out of the tank and watch the result on the ohm meter.
I had previously bought a Gastapper, a portable transfer pump to drain some gas out of one of the cars before an indoor car show where only 1/4 tank was permitted. This was perfect for the job at hand.


The Gastapper runs off 12 volts, and the electrical lead has a built in switch and a lighter adapter to provide power. I had also previously rigged up an adaptor to use my Milwaukee M12 batteries as an easy 12 volt source, with quick connects for a lighter receptacle and for alligator clips and other attachments.

With the gauge lead disconnected, the ohm meter read around 145 ohms. As I emptied the tank, the reading increased steadily, indicating the sender was acting properly. The range for this sender is, I believe, 33 ohms at full to 240 ohms at empty, so the reading was going in the right direction. I kept draining fuel until the reading got to around 185 and then stopped. As I was pulling out the gas tubes and draining them, I noticed the ohm reading had dropped from 185 to the mid-60s's without any intervention on my part. Again, I'm taking this to be indicative of a faulty sender, even though the increasing ohm readings were proper.
The tank is mounted so there is just enough room to get my hand in there to remove the gauge lead, but nothing more. It is dropped into the frame from the top, so replacing the sender would require removing the body from the frame, and I agree with Tim that "the juice just isn't worth the squeeze" to attack that project. I will cricle back one more time to ensure the ground is good, but unless the Garage Journal "collective" has any other suggestions, I guess I'll just keep manual track of the mileage at the last fill up and live with it!

 

[HogDude]

I guess this is my week to chase electrical gremlins.
First up - 1934 Ford. The fuel gauge has not worked since I bought it, never showing more than 1/8th of a tank, and generally empty or lower.
Hoping the easiest explanation would be the answer, I made sure there was a good ground between the sender and the master chassis ground. No love - gauge still wouldn't move when I turned the ignition on.
Next step was to see what voltage I got at the sender. With the lead for the gauge attached, the voltage was around 3.8 volts. Without the lead attached to the sender, the voltage at the lead jumped to 5.6 volts. A bit of interweb research said the reference voltage should be 5 volts. Given the disparity with the lead attached, I "jumped" to the conclusion that the sender had issues.
I met Tim Goodwin, the proprietor of Ironhorse Classics, a classic restoration and performance speed shop, at the car show I went to on Sunday and had a chance to discuss this briefly with him. He suggested I hook up an ohm meter and then drain gas out of the tank and watch the result on the ohm meter.
I had previously bought a Gastapper, a portable transfer pump to drain some gas out of one of the cars before an indoor car show where only 1/4 tank was permitted. This was perfect for the job at hand.


The Gastapper runs off 12 volts, and the electrical lead has a built in switch and a lighter adapter to provide power. I had also previously rigged up an adaptor to use my Milwaukee M12 batteries as an easy 12 volt source, with quick connects for a lighter receptacle and for alligator clips and other attachments.

With the gauge lead disconnected, the ohm meter read around 145 ohms. As I emptied the tank, the reading increased steadily, indicating the sender was acting properly. The range for this sender is, I believe, 33 ohms at full to 240 ohms at empty, so the reading was going in the right direction. I kept draining fuel until the reading got to around 185 and then stopped. As I was pulling out the gas tubes and draining them, I noticed the ohm reading had dropped from 185 to the mid-60s's without any intervention on my part. Again, I'm taking this to be indicative of a faulty sender, even though the increasing ohm readings were proper.
The tank is mounted so there is just enough room to get my hand in there to remove the gauge lead, but nothing more. It is dropped into the frame from the top, so replacing the sender would require removing the body from the frame, and I agree with Tim that "the juice just isn't worth the squeeze" to attack that project. I will cricle back one more time to ensure the ground is good, but unless the Garage Journal "collective" has any other suggestions, I guess I'll just keep manual track of the mileage at the last fill up and live with it!

Apologies up front for a few stupid questions.
Can you "make" the gauge/needle move at all? Alternate power feed? Soft tapping? How about ohms between sending unit and gauge or fuse?
You are as thorough as they come and I love your posts with all the incredible details. I would never criticize your work.
Phileo Swanny

 

[zmotorsports]

Gary, you nailed the readings when you said 33 Ohms to 240 Ohms as that is a very common range of many sensors, not just fuel, also pressure gauges such as oil pressure use the same range sending units in most applications. I've run across the same range on Auto Meter and VDO gauges. That way the manufacture can use similar range gauges all acting on similar inputs from the sending units.

An old school way of testing that I have used and still use is to disconnect the wire from the sending unit to the gauge. Being open the gauge will pin to one range (usually low), then ground it and the gauge should peg to the other range (usually high). If that happens then you've proven everything from the sending unit to the gauge is working properly and it can pretty much be narrowed down to a faulty sending unit. If that test does not net those results there are other issues with either power supply or wiring.

 

[Swanny1953]

Apologies up front for a few stupid questions.
Can you "make" the gauge/needle move at all? Alternate power feed? Soft tapping? How about ohms between sending unit and gauge or fuse?
You are as thorough as they come and I love your posts with all the incredible details. I would never criticize your work.
Phileo Swanny

I live by the rule there are no stupid questions. The only questions I recognize to be stupid are the ones that go unasked!
The gauge has moved in the past slightly, but never past 1/4 tank.
As to ohm readings at both ends of the gauge feed, the Ron Francis wiring fuse block is mounted such that I can't get a lead on the fuse block side without tearing a bunch of the interior apart.
I'm a little leery of trying an alternate power source, as the voltage reading at the sender with the lead disconnected is in the range of what I have found is normal (i.e., +/- 5 volts), and it's much less than the 12 volts an alternate power supply would provide.
Finally, as to soft tapping, there just isn't any room to maneuver between the tank and the body. I can just barely get my hand in there to remove the sender holding nut, and then only with my index & middle finger!!

Gary, you nailed the readings when you said 33 Ohms to 240 Ohms as that is a very common range of many sensors, not just fuel, also pressure gauges such as oil pressure use the same range sending units in most applications. I've run across the same range on Auto Meter and VDO gauges. That way the manufacture can use similar range gauges all acting on similar inputs from the sending units.

An old school way of testing that I have used and still use is to disconnect the wire from the sending unit to the gauge. Being open the gauge will pin to one range (usually low), then ground it and the gauge should peg to the other range (usually high). If that happens then you've proven everything from the sending unit to the gauge is working properly and it can pretty much be narrowed down to a faulty sending unit. If that test does not net those results there are other issues with either power supply or wiring.

Thanks for that suggestion, Mike. That is one I hadn't heard and will do the next time I have a chance.

 

[Swanny1953]

I think we're going to declare the '34's problem solved, but not resolved!
I hooked up my Autel Powerscan just to make sure where the tank sender was grounded was providing a suitable ground - check!
Disconnected the gauge lead and turned ignition on - no reading, check!
Ran the gauge lead directly to ground and turned the ignition on - the gauge sweeps to full, check! So, we know the issue isn't with the gauge or sender lead.
Using my borescope, it appears there is some crud around the sender ground connection.


Just in case this is the issue, I disconnected the ground at the sender and cleaned everything up. It appears on closer inspection the builder used some dielectric grease. So I cleaned everything up and applied a coating of dielectric grease to the ground screw and reattached everything. Hoping for the best, I again turned the power on - ****!
After all this, I think it's safe to say the problem is with the sender and given its inaccessibility, I'm going to have to live with it and just be careful of accumulated mileage between gas ups!

 

[Swanny1953]

Next up with it's own gas gauge problems is the Cameo pickup. But first, we have to deal with some lighting issues.
Preparing for the Tri-5 Chevy show a couple of weeks ago, I walked around the truck to make sure everything was working properly. While the left rear tail light worked, I had no stop or turn signal. I replaced the bulb and after driving it to dinner, took another look. Damn, the stop light is out again! Replaced the bulb again, and to date no additional issues! Guess I just ran into 2 bum bulbs. . . . .
Also noticed during the walk around that the passenger side park/turn light was working backward - the parking light was brighter than the turn, and given the truck is wired for the park lights to illuminate with the headlights, I effectively had no turn signal when driving at night! I traced the wiring loom back through the engine compartment, and not finding a convenient connection, I decided to cut and swap the wires close to the fixture. Issue resolved.
The gas gauge on this one has a recent intermittent issue with reading either full or empty - doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to timing. This is another one where there is very limited space between the gas tank and the bed. While the tank attaches to the bottom of the frame rails, the hard lines for the fuel system run above the frame rails, which negates any opportunity to drop the tank for inspection. So, I grabbed my borescope to see what I could see.
Imagine my surprise to see this around the sender -

Looks like the builder left a pretty sizeable screw starter bit holder in the sender area when they put everything back together.

Given there is NO space for my hands/arm, I used my smallest magnetic probe to coax the bit holder out. I'm hoping for the best, but given I just filled the truck before coming home on its last outing, I won't know if the gauge has reverted to normal operation until I'm able to get a few more miles on truck. There is also a minor gas leak, so I'll be having to remove the bed in the future to address that and, if the sender is still a problem, will deal with that at the same time.
It's always something with old cars, even those that have been turned into more modern vehicles . . . . .

 

[Swanny1953]

Another electrical gremlin bites the dust!
A few weeks ago when I took the Woodie to a Cars 'n Coffee event, one of my buddies following me said I had no brake lights. The turn signals worked fine, but no brake lights. So, the switch is the first culprit to investigate.
The master cylinder for this car is mounted underneath the body inside the frame rail. I was able to find it's pressure switch and using my Autel Powerscan determined the inbound lead did indeed have power. However, the switch was only passing about 7-1/2 volts.

(I couldn't hold the tester, take the pic and depress the brake pedal at the same time) I ordered a new switch from Amazon, which arrived this afternoon, a day earlier than promised. Swapping out the switch only involved a couple of drops of brake fluid escaping, so I'm unworried about air in the system. Once installed, I determined the switch passed 12+ volts when the brake pedal was depressed, and when fully hooked up, the brake lights illuminate. Simple win on this one!
In addition to the brake light issue on this one, I'm trying to get the factory gauge cluster to illuminate at night so I can see the speedometer. I have pulled the light socket and provided a ground to it, and the light turns on with the headlights. Using the Powerscan, I have determined the entire gauge body is a ground. However, when I plug the light socket back in and turn on the headlights, there's no illumination to the gauge. Guess I have some more sleuthing to do on this one!

 

[bugnut]

It's always something with old cars, even those that have been turned into more modern vehicles . . . . .

S/be

It's always something with old cars!

edit for spllng

 

[Swanny1953]

S/be

It's always something with old cars!

edit for spllng

Truer words. . . . . . . . .

 

[Swanny1953]

Beautiful day in N. Texas for a car show.


I bet that’s a handful!! Won best interior with a metal backrest!!
Was Marine Corp pick.

LS3 power, Art Morrison chassis! Won best in show

There are a bunch more, but at the limit for this post!

 

[bugnut]

Images show the fun part and a respite from working on them!

 

[Swanny1953]

While I have been keeping up on a variety of other GJ threads I regularly follow, I haven't posted anything on this as I have been slowed down by an injury. Four years ago, I had surgery to repair a significant tear in the peroneal tendon in my right foot. While goofing around on the basketball court with my eldest grandson in April, I must have strained the tendon as it began to hurt and I couldn't "walk it out". A revisit to the surgeon left me in a walking boot for a couple of weeks and reassurance that it would probably be OK after that time.
One week into being a good boy and wearing the boot during the vast majority of my waking hours, I tripped over a rug in the bathroom at our lake house and ended up catching myself but landing hard on the foot in the walking boot. The boot didn't give at all, and it hurt like hell - to the point I had my eldest take me to the local ER where I learned the damn boot had broken the 5th metatarsal bone and my penance for tripping was to wear the boot for another 6 weeks. I walked out on crutches as it hurt to put any weight on the foot while walking.
A week and a half later I had a follow up appointment with the surgeon that was already on the books. By this time, I could tolerate putting weight on the foot while in the walking boot and ditched the crutches. He tells me there are 3 types of fractures of that bone, one which almost always requires surgical intervention, one of which almost never requires surgical intervention, and one (called a Jones fracture after the physician who studied these types of breaks for many years) which heals 75% of the time, but requires surgery the other 25%. Of course, I have the Jones fracture. We decided to see if it will show signs of healing over the following 6 weeks before having to make a decision on surgery. While I don't have to wear the very heavy walking boot, I am in a specialty walking shoe that tends to isolate the foot so the bone won't move. In the interim, I had to cancel my Cadillac CTS-V driving school at Spring Mountain academy (they were kind enough to extend my certificate to after Labor Day) and my buddies golf trip to WI, and it has slowed me up considerably. I'm still getting some garage time, but tend to be lazier than normal in attacking projects due to hobbling around!

 

[zmotorsports]

Well hell Gary, that doesn't sound like good news. Sorry you've been dealing with the injury. Hope you are able to rest the injured foot and be part of the 75% group.

Best wishes.

 

[Swanny1953]

I do have a project to share, and while it's a little on the embarrassing side, perhaps someone else will learn from it and not repeat the same mistakes I did.
I had noticed that the Battery Saver in the '40 Chev was always overly warm, as was the Optima red top battery. I let the car sit without connecting the cord for the charger, and the battery went dead. I was unable to get the battery to fully charge using the 6 amp setting on my Schumacher battery charger, but it would achieve full charge using the 30 amp setting. However, both the battery and the charger got very hot during this process.
I figured there must be a parasitic draw somewhere, and I found a parasitic draw of around 111mA. So I started down that diagnostic trail, first making sure the draw was through the main power supply (there are 2 leads from the battery serving the stereo amplifiers). I then used my powered Autel probe to determine which fuses were switched, followed by using the milliamp setting on my Fluke DM to see where current was flowing across the various unswitched fuses. The largest current draw was across the fuse for the ECM, and I found that when I removed that fuse, the parasitic draw dropped to around 30mA, which is acceptable. So, the logical conclusion was that the draw was being initiated through the ECM.
I reached out to the company that provided the replacement ECM, FS1 Inc., to discuss the issue. Those who have followed this thread may remember when we replaced the ECM earlier this year, we had to "tune out" a security feature that required a chipped key to allow the car to continue running after startup. Since the parasitic draw dropped by around 80mA with the fuse removed, I thought there might be a factory routine within the ECM that refused to sleep as some required input might not be found. Although the custom tuning we had done technically violates the lifetime warranty from FS1, they were kind enough to issue a RMA to return the ECM, and my tuner thought that was a good start to resolving the issue.
After tearing the dash apart and removing the ECM, I decided, just for shits and giggles, to reinstall the ECM fuse and retest for parasitic draw. Well, ****, it's still at 111mA with the ECM removed, so that obviously isn't the problem. Just happy I hadn't sent it off to FS1 for replacement. I made that discovery late in the day yesterday, so had the evening to mull over how to approach figuring out the culprit. I don't have a full wiring diagram for the car, so I considered reaching out to the builder this morning to see if he has anything in his files (he was very helpful with the paint "recipe" when we needed it earlier this year). Somewhere in the middle of the night I had an epiphany. I had plugged the HP Tuners dongle into the OBD port in anticipation of an upcoming tuning session, but didn't remove it during my testing. Once I disconnected it this morning, the parasitic drain dropped back to 30mA. So, I had my culprit, and slapped myself along the side of my head!!!
Sometimes a bad battery is just a bad battery. I wasn't able to get the Optima to fully charge using the 6 amp charging option, but it would charge using 30 amps, but both the battery and charger got very hot during the process. After fully charging and letting it sit overnight without any draw on it, the voltage dropped below 12. I tried to charge it again at 30 amps, and it wouldn't reach full charge after being on the charger overnight. I got it out (which requires removing some of the trunk paneling) and took it to O'Reilly who tested it, determined it was bad, and gave me a new battery under warranty.
Not happy that I wasted a bunch of time chasing a phantom issue based on my own oversight (read stupidness!!), but at least it finally came to me. Now, I get to put everything back together again!

 

[Swanny1953]

Well hell Gary, that doesn't sound like good news. Sorry you've been dealing with the injury. Hope you are able to rest the injured foot and be part of the 75% group.

Best wishes.

Thanks, Mike - that's my fervent desire as well, as we have an Alaska cruise/rail tour coming up in August and a car trip in October to see the NE colors change and I'd prefer not to have to reschedule either!!

 

[HogDude]

While I have been keeping up on a variety of other GJ threads I regularly follow, I haven't posted anything on this as I have been slowed down by an injury. Four years ago, I had surgery to repair a significant tear in the peroneal tendon in my right foot. While goofing around on the basketball court with my eldest grandson in April, I must have strained the tendon as it began to hurt and I couldn't "walk it out". A revisit to the surgeon left me in a walking boot for a couple of weeks and reassurance that it would probably be OK after that time.
One week into being a good boy and wearing the boot during the vast majority of my waking hours, I tripped over a rug in the bathroom at our lake house and ended up catching myself but landing hard on the foot in the walking boot. The boot didn't give at all, and it hurt like hell - to the point I had my eldest take me to the local ER where I learned the damn boot had broken the 5th metatarsal bone and my penance for tripping was to wear the boot for another 6 weeks. I walked out on crutches as it hurt to put any weight on the foot while walking.
A week and a half later I had a follow up appointment with the surgeon that was already on the books. By this time, I could tolerate putting weight on the foot while in the walking boot and ditched the crutches. He tells me there are 3 types of fractures of that bone, one which almost always requires surgical intervention, one of which almost never requires surgical intervention, and one (called a Jones fracture after the physician who studied these types of breaks for many years) which heals 75% of the time, but requires surgery the other 25%. Of course, I have the Jones fracture. We decided to see if it will show signs of healing over the following 6 weeks before having to make a decision on surgery. While I don't have to wear the very heavy walking boot, I am in a specialty walking shoe that tends to isolate the foot so the bone won't move. In the interim, I had to cancel my Cadillac CTS-V driving school at Spring Mountain academy (they were kind enough to extend my certificate to after Labor Day) and my buddies golf trip to WI, and it has slowed me up considerably. I'm still getting some garage time, but tend to be lazier than normal in attacking projects due to hobbling around!

Lord, I lift up Swanny (Gary) to you and ask for healing and restoration. I pray in agreement with the Holy Spirit as He intercedes for Swanny with groans. I ask these in your mighty name Jesus, amen.

 

[glendale]

I think we're going to declare the '34's problem solved, but not resolved!
I hooked up my Autel Powerscan just to make sure where the tank sender was grounded was providing a suitable ground - check!
Disconnected the gauge lead and turned ignition on - no reading, check!
Ran the gauge lead directly to ground and turned the ignition on - the gauge sweeps to full, check! So, we know the issue isn't with the gauge or sender lead.
Using my borescope, it appears there is some crud around the sender ground connection.


Just in case this is the issue, I disconnected the ground at the sender and cleaned everything up. It appears on closer inspection the builder used some dielectric grease. So I cleaned everything up and applied a coating of dielectric grease to the ground screw and reattached everything. Hoping for the best, I again turned the power on - ****!
After all this, I think it's safe to say the problem is with the sender and given its inaccessibility, I'm going to have to live with it and just be careful of accumulated mileage between gas ups!

have you looked for an access panel in the rumble seat area? i just took a few days and went through your fun one to check out.

 

[Swanny1953]

Lord, I lift up Swanny (Gary) to you and ask for healing and restoration. I pray in agreement with the Holy Spirit as He intercedes for Swanny with groans. I ask these in your mighty name Jesus, amen.

Thanks, Hog Dude - I'll take all the help I can get!!!

have you looked for an access panel in the rumble seat area? i just took a few days and went through your fun one to check out.

I took another look and, no, there is no access panel.
I had seen on the Classic Instruments website that certain of their gas gauges had a selector dial on the back that would toggle between different ohm ranges for the gauge. I used my borescope to try and get a look at the back of the gauge. There wasn't really enough room for the scope to get a clear look, and certainly not enough room for me to make any adjustment if the dial did exist (I couldn't see anything that looked like one). So, I guess I'll just be happy with keeping track of mileage.

 

[Blackbyrd]

Sorry to hear bout the foot Gary.

Obviously this wouldn't help un your case since there isnt much room to work even if you could see it, but my pen cam has an attachment to allow it to see 90 degrees instead of straight on like a periscope. Might create a bit more distance to focus on.

 

[Swanny1953]

Blackbyrd - thanks for mentioning that. I went and looked at my kit and I have one of those periscope attachments as well. Never spent much time looking at it. Now, I think it will probably come in very handy!!

 

[LXCam]

That foot thing ***** Gary, hope you heal up quickly.

 

[Swanny1953]

That foot thing ***** Gary, hope you heal up quickly.

Thanks, Bud!!