Riddle me this about HF saw blades

[JeepYJ]

The majority of the Chinese sales are in Asia so far. Look at how fast China has moved into other countries market. Like in Canada and Europe. It’s sales are pushing the US out of business.

The only reason they aren’t selling millions of cars in the US is because of protectionist tariffs.

 

[neophyte]

The only reason they aren’t selling millions of cars in the US is because of protectionist tariffs.

The USA has enough issues with recalls of cars actually made in the USA, or made by major US corporations.
There are also routine issues with **** lithium batteries and battery powered devices.
An electric car is not only much larger and more complex, it also has a giant battery pack, which would be a major issue if a series of cars has issues, since storing old lithium batteries has already caused major fires on multiple occasions.

Septa, the public transit agency for Philadelphia and the surrounding area, bought half a dozen electrical buses, which despite being used on the flattest and shortest routes possible, still wound up with far less range than was claimed, with the buses making half the claimed range per charge or less.
When Septa complained, the battery packs were enlarged to provide additional range, but the buses had their structural frames which were made from wood and carbon fiber, start cracking, at which point Septa pulled the buses from service.
The manufacturer went bankrupt, with assets purchased by some major corporation in Europe, and Septa is still involved in lawsuits to get some sort of refund or partial refund.
Later, one of the mothballed electric buses caught on fire while in storage, not only destroying the original electric bus, but also a number of other non-electric buses in the same storage yard.
Septa, despite all their routine dumb-f*ckery, is still considered one of the most efficient large transit agencies in the USA, and still manages to overhaul decades old trollies and trains to keep equipment running ling after the equipment should have bern replaced.

Now image how well numerous electrical cars, with giant battery packs, would fare with the general consumer, once the battery pack goes bad, and the car gets mothballed or scrapped, or the car gets wrecked, or the car models just get old and get pulled off the road.
How easy do you think it would be to get money from a foreign entity in China, if a recall needs to be issued and the cars get pulled off the road?

 

[JeepYJ]

The USA has enough issues with recalls of cars actually made in the USA, or made by major US corporations.

Maybe Chinese cars are better?

 

[Rkcubed]

The USA has enough issues with recalls of cars actually made in the USA, or made by major US corporations.
There are also routine issues with **** lithium batteries and battery powered devices.
An electric car is not only much larger and more complex, it also has a giant battery pack, which would be a major issue if a series of cars has issues, since storing old lithium batteries has already caused major fires on multiple occasions.

Septa, the public transit agency for Philadelphia and the surrounding area, bought half a dozen electrical buses, which despite being used on the flattest and shortest routes possible, still wound up with far less range than was claimed, with the buses making half the claimed range per charge or less.
When Septa complained, the battery packs were enlarged to provide additional range, but the buses had their structural frames which were made from wood and carbon fiber, start cracking, at which point Septa pulled the buses from service.
The manufacturer went bankrupt, with assets purchased by some major corporation in Europe, and Septa is still involved in lawsuits to get some sort of refund or partial refund.
Later, one of the mothballed electric buses caught on fire while in storage, not only destroying the original electric bus, but also a number of other non-electric buses in the same storage yard.
Septa, despite all their routine dumb-f*ckery, is still considered one of the most efficient large transit agencies in the USA, and still manages to overhaul decades old trollies and trains to keep equipment running ling after the equipment should have bern replaced.

Now image how well numerous electrical cars, with giant battery packs, would fare with the general consumer, once the battery pack goes bad, and the car gets mothballed or scrapped, or the car gets wrecked, or the car models just get old and get pulled off the road.
How easy do you think it would be to get money from a foreign entity in China, if a recall needs to be issued and the cars get pulled off the road?

Battery failure is very uncommon statistically. You are glossing over another point. Doesn’t ICE vehicles experience engine and transmission failures. The cost is pretty much the same right now. With new battery chemistry available the price per KWh will decrease more. Ten years ago it cost about $1100 per kWh. Now it’s less than $110 per kW. You are also missing another factor, the whole battery doesn’t have to be replaced at once, if a donor pack is located within the same voltage as the old one. Then just certain modules can be replaced. You taok like it’s only EVs that will end up as a rusty hulk. How many cars do you see on the road thats over 10 years old or 20 years old or even 30 years old. Time is the enemy of any car not just EVs.

 

[zendriver]

The USA has enough issues with recalls of cars actually made in the USA, or made by major US corporations.
There are also routine issues with **** lithium batteries and battery powered devices.
An electric car is not only much larger and more complex, it also has a giant battery pack, which would be a major issue if a series of cars has issues, since storing old lithium batteries has already caused major fires on multiple occasions.

Septa, the public transit agency for Philadelphia and the surrounding area, bought half a dozen electrical buses, which despite being used on the flattest and shortest routes possible, still wound up with far less range than was claimed, with the buses making half the claimed range per charge or less.
When Septa complained, the battery packs were enlarged to provide additional range, but the buses had their structural frames which were made from wood and carbon fiber, start cracking, at which point Septa pulled the buses from service.
The manufacturer went bankrupt, with assets purchased by some major corporation in Europe, and Septa is still involved in lawsuits to get some sort of refund or partial refund.
Later, one of the mothballed electric buses caught on fire while in storage, not only destroying the original electric bus, but also a number of other non-electric buses in the same storage yard.
Septa, despite all their routine dumb-f*ckery, is still considered one of the most efficient large transit agencies in the USA, and still manages to overhaul decades old trollies and trains to keep equipment running ling after the equipment should have bern replaced.

Now image how well numerous electrical cars, with giant battery packs, would fare with the general consumer, once the battery pack goes bad, and the car gets mothballed or scrapped, or the car gets wrecked, or the car models just get old and get pulled off the road.
How easy do you think it would be to get money from a foreign entity in China, if a recall needs to be issued and the cars get pulled off the road?

Imo if they sold standard quality,$15,000 electric vehicles in the US. They would be literally everywhere.

Probably buy batteries cheap off of Amazon

 

[AEAdam]

This post got me thinking about my blade choices, and a little bit about the short-sightedness of our global economy.

I’ve been cutting a lot of Boral, which is abrasive and I think dulls saw blades quickly. The blade on my sliding mitersaw is a $75 made in Italy Freud with the negative 5deg rake. It’s a 10” 60T blade. It’s the best blade I know of and performs very very well.

I found an Amish blade sharpener not too far away. I think I’m going to take it there to be sharpened. There’s a fun Amish sandwich & coffee shop near there.

I think about the price of my saw blades and hand wring my purchases, maybe like @dwasifar. I’m going to try a local sharpening service and see how I make out and maybe worry less about finding cheap blades.

I think my tracksaw blades were like $40. Might be worth sending them in to see what the owner, Amos, thinks.

There’s a very strong possibility I could drop off my blades, and drive home with fresh brewed coffee and apple cider donuts for the family.

 

[tarbellb]

If you are running a laser on your miter saw-

then a HF blade is just fine

 

[drokihazan]

You used iphone as an example of China's manufacturing know how.

1) Foxconn is a Taiwan owned company
2) Foxconn did not do ANY design engineering on iphone and really just built to print. Even the machines they used were chosen for them by engineers in California and those machines weren't made in China.

iPhone is not a good example of China's domestic manufacturing capability. Its an outstanding example of the exploitation of Chinese workers' low labor cost by outsiders (Taiwan and US) who do not/have not shared the key technologies with the manufacturing facility to enable them to grow their domestic capabilities. Its a well documented sore point for China.

1. Foxconn was the largest private employer in China before BYD and Alibaba exploded in scale, and is still one of the largest. Being headquarted in Taiwan is pretty much irrelevant.
2. I said I wouldn't get too deep into my career here, so I won't, but dude, no, absolutely not, you are wrong, full stop. I've spent my entire adult life working on this very specific thing, and you are completely incorrect on this. Major firms like Foxconn, Pegatron, and Luxshare all contribute significantly to this manufacturing process, they aren't just mindless robots who do what they're told.

 

[AEAdam]

1. Foxconn was the largest private employer in China before BYD and Alibaba exploded in scale, and is still one of the largest. Being headquarted in Taiwan is pretty much irrelevant.
2. I said I wouldn't get too deep into my career here, so I won't, but dude, no, absolutely not, you are wrong, full stop. I've spent my entire adult life working on this very specific thing, and you are completely incorrect on this. Major firms like Foxconn, Pegatron, and Luxshare all contribute significantly to this manufacturing process, they aren't just mindless robots who do what they're told.

So, they are mindless robots who don't listen? (come on admit it, that's funny)

Take the hint and let's get back to talking tools. I already apologized for this off topic stuff.

 

[AEAdam]

If you are running a laser on your miter saw-

then a HF blade is just fine

You mean a "concentrated beam of hate" mounted to my saw? No thanks, my saws are nasty enough.

"Trees are Evil and deserve to be punished" Roy Underhill

 

[AEAdam]

This post got me thinking about my blade choices, and a little bit about the short-sightedness of our global economy.

I’ve been cutting a lot of Boral, which is abrasive and I think dulls saw blades quickly. The blade on my sliding mitersaw is a $75 made in Italy Freud with the negative 5deg rake. It’s a 10” 60T blade. It’s the best blade I know of and performs very very well.

I found an Amish blade sharpener not too far away. I think I’m going to take it there to be sharpened. There’s a fun Amish sandwich & coffee shop near there.

I think about the price of my saw blades and hand wring my purchases, maybe like @dwasifar. I’m going to try a local sharpening service and see how I make out and maybe worry less about finding cheap blades.

I think my tracksaw blades were like $40. Might be worth sending them in to see what the owner, Amos, thinks.

There’s a very strong possibility I could drop off my blades, and drive home with fresh brewed coffee and apple cider donuts for the family.

$17 for 60T
$11 for 40T
carbide blades

Heading up there tomorrow. I feel like he charges by the tooth. Maybe spending more for premium blades is in my future.

 

[Toold_up]

Man it sure sounds like the media's anonymous sources are posting in here! Trust me dude...

 

[alinc100]

I'll stay out of the China, "I have the best" discussion. I recently bought the Craftsman 20 volt 7-1/4" cordless miter saw. I bought it cheap, it was used. It weighs (seemingly) half of the 7-1/4" Dewalt. Since it required a new blade on cleanup I went to HF and bought this blade https://www.harborfreight.com/7-14-in-60t-fine-finishing-circular-saw-blade-57102.html . I've used it this last week on a job cutting 1" X2" ab plywood to length. It has cut very well. still seems sharp to the touch. at $12 I'm not risking a lot. Yes, we wear eye protection,proper PPE as required on the job.

 

[KnurledNut]

I'll stay out of the China, "I have the best" discussion. I recently bought the Craftsman 20 volt 7-1/4" cordless miter saw. I bought it cheap, it was used. It weighs (seemingly) half of the 7-1/4" Dewalt. Since it required a new blade on cleanup I went to HF and bought this blade https://www.harborfreight.com/7-14-in-60t-fine-finishing-circular-saw-blade-57102.html . I've used it this last week on a job cutting 1" X2" ab plywood to length. It has cut very well. still seems sharp to the touch. at $12 I'm not risking a lot. Yes, we wear eye protection,proper PPE as required on the job.

I wish more manufacturers offered negative hook angle blades for those compact miter saws, especially for sliders where self feed can be more prominent.
If I was planning on using the saw often, I would invest in something like this Freud:
https://www.freudtools.com/products/LU79R007

 

[whateg01]

I wish more manufacturers offered negative hook angle blades for those compact miter saws, especially for sliders where self feed can be more prominent.
If I was planning on using the saw often, I would invest in something like this Freud:
https://www.freudtools.com/products/LU79R007

In most instances, I pull the saw out, plunge, the push in, so there's no self feed to happen.

 

[KnurledNut]

In most instances, I pull the saw out, plunge, the push in, so there's no self feed to happen.

The potential is still there. The material can climb even if your blade is bottomed out. In fact, depending on the width of material, it may be more at risk doing it that way. Regardless, instead of compensating for it, I choose to eliminate it as much as possible to begin with. Obviously not a big a risk on a underpowered 7-1/4.

 

[whateg01]

The potential is still there. The material can climb even if your blade is bottomed out. In fact, depending on the width of material, it may be more at risk doing it that way. Regardless, instead of compensating for it, I choose to eliminate it as much as possible to begin with. Obviously not a big a risk on a underpowered 7-1/4.

How can it climb? All the material that it could want to climb is already turned to sawdust!

 

[KnurledNut]

How can it climb? All the material that it could want to climb is already turned to sawdust!

Because doing it that way is sending the blade teeth into the material at the most vulnerable angle. But keep talking...I'm fascinated.

 

[whateg01]

Because doing it that way is sending the blade teeth into the material at the most vulnerable angle. But keep talking...I'm fascinated.

Ok, you're literally PUSHING the blade into the cut

 

[AEAdam]

Ok, you're literally PUSHING the blade into the cut

I do this, but @KnurledNut is right. You need to physically hold the work down with a normal positive rake saw. All the time it’s spinning, it’s pulling the stock up at the fence. And it’s not fun to plunge. With a negative rake saw, it’s so much less drama

The negative rake saws are sold specifically for sliders.

https://www.acmetools.com/freud-10-in-x-60t-thin-kerf-sliding-compound-miter-saw-blade-lu91m010/008925301158.html?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23305433921&gbraid=0AAAAADub60uS6EJD26MSRRQmdGuXlldoZ&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIubiyhN3flAMV0FtHAR3ZrwpeEAQYASABEgKF7PD_BwE

This is the one I’m taking to be resharpened tomorrow.

 

[nadogail]

Many things are built to a price, Some things are built to a Quality. Usually low price and high qua;it are mutually incommpatable.

 

[neophyte]

$17 for 60T
$11 for 40T
carbide blades

Heading up there tomorrow. I feel like he charges by the tooth. Maybe spending more for premium blades is in my future.

Charging per tooth for sharpening services is somewhat standard, although it likely varies by sharpening service, and the equipment and methods that service uses.

This post got me thinking about my blade choices, and a little bit about the short-sightedness of our global economy.

I’ve been cutting a lot of Boral, which is abrasive and I think dulls saw blades quickly. The blade on my sliding mitersaw is a $75 made in Italy Freud with the negative 5deg rake. It’s a 10” 60T blade. It’s the best blade I know of and performs very very well.

I found an Amish blade sharpener not too far away. I think I’m going to take it there to be sharpened. There’s a fun Amish sandwich & coffee shop near there.

I think about the price of my saw blades and hand wring my purchases, maybe like @dwasifar. I’m going to try a local sharpening service and see how I make out and maybe worry less about finding cheap blades.

I think my tracksaw blades were like $40. Might be worth sending them in to see what the owner, Amos, thinks.

There’s a very strong possibility I could drop off my blades, and drive home with fresh brewed coffee and apple cider donuts for the family.

The issue with sharpening track saw blades, is that the anti-splinter rubber strip on the guide track is set to “zero-clearance” to the kerf produced by the saw teeth.
Saw teeth tend to be trapezoidal in shape, and when you sharpen the teeth, that kerf width narrows.
These saw teeth are slightly wider than the steel blank making up the saw blade body.
The kerf width, minus the saw body thickness, divided by two, is the offset distance from the same body to the tooth edge.
Most track saw blades made for the same saw model, by the same manufacturer, use an offset that is the same, meaning that new saw blades can be switched out, keeping the offset the same, and therefore lining up at the same point on the anti splinter edge on saw guide tracks.
This allows switching out saw blades while using the same edge strip on the same track.
When saw blades are sharpened, the teeth become narrower, meaning the anti-splinter strip no longer aligns with the saw blade kerf, leading to more splintering on the cut edge.
On Festool type saw guide tracks, the edge can be removed, and replaced, either simply moving the same strip over again, and re-zeroing, however then, the saw with the narrower blade will align to a different kerf offset, removing the ability to simply switch saw blades back and forth.
For general purpose cuts, such as for construction, this may not really be an issue.
For precise cuts for furniture where precision and edge quality are absolutely necessary, this would be.

 

[neophyte]

Also, for cutting Boral, you might want to try a blade made for highly abrasive materials, with teeth made from Cermet or polycrystalline diamond.

 

[neophyte]

Maybe Chinese cars are better?

Imo if they sold standard quality,$15,000 electric vehicles in the US. They would be literally everywhere.

Probably buy batteries cheap off of Amazon

There have been plenty of videos showing Chinese made electric cars bursting into flames in China, and this also includes electric buses, so at best, the Chinese made electric cars are “just as safe and reliable” as USA made electric cars, which already have caused a number of safety concerns over fires and the difficulty putting those fires out.

Secondly, there have been numerous issues with lithium batteries bursting into flames, from poor manufacturing of the battery cells, or water intrusion into those cells, or short circuiting of those cells, or other damage yo the battery cells.
There are literally videos of people bring incinerated in elevators, from electric scooter batteries bursting into flames while people are in the elevators.
The batteries in electric cars are way bigger, and potentially more dangerous, than the batteries in an electric scooter or bike.

There have been individuals trying to collect old lithium batteries, figuring that eventually those batteries would have recycling value, and one of those individuals stored the old lithium batteries in a warehouse in PA, which caused a major fire, likely started by a battery short circuiting causing a huge number of other batteries to go up in flames.

This essentially means that older electric cars whose batteries no longer hold a charge, are basically highly hazardous waste, with way more potential for being hazardous than basic leaking of fluids from an older ice vehicle.


Once electric cars batteries get old, the current situation seems to be that the cars get scrapped. And recalls of older electric cars have left fields dull of older scrapped electric cars in China.

Now, consider all of the above potential negatives, when combined with a foreign manufacturer, who might shrug and say, “deal with it yourself” if any major issue happened requiring a major recall and scrapped cars.
You would basically have scrapped, “potential incendiary devices” strewn all over the country.

 

[AEAdam]

Also, for cutting Boral, you might want to try a blade made for highly abrasive materials, with teeth made from Cermet or polycrystalline diamond.

I think cutting Boral is like MDF except Boral has no wood fibers. It’s not cementitious like Hardie. I can hand plane Boral and cut it with a chisel. But it dulls stuff. I think it’s compressed fly ash, and I’m not sure what that is exactly.

 

[neophyte]

I think cutting Boral is like MDF except Boral has no wood fibers. It’s not cementitious like Hardie. I can hand plane Boral and cut it with a chisel. But it dulls stuff. I think it’s compressed fly ash, and I’m not sure what that is exactly.

Fly ash is a byproduct from burning coal, and it’s high is silica and alumina, so it’s used as an additive in cement, and cinder blocks, and other similar materials.
It us also highly abrasive, which is the reason it wears out even carbide toothed blades quickly.

 

[JeepYJ]

the Chinese made electric cars are “just as safe and reliable” as USA made electric cars, which already have caused a number of safety concerns over fires and the difficulty putting those fires out.

ICE catch fire at a higher rate than electric cars.

Once electric cars batteries get old, the current situation seems to be that the cars get scrapped.

The batteries can be recycled. When the battery life is over the basic elements of the battery are still there. When you burn a gallon of gasoline or diesel it is gone forever.
Many ICE vehicles in the scrapyard are there because of a bad engine or transmission. That’s fairly common.

when combined with a foreign manufacturer, who might shrug and say, “deal with it yourself” if any major issue happened requiring a major recall and scrapped cars.

Is that an issue with German, Korean or Japanese manufacturers who sell cars in the US now? Why would it be different with Chinese cars?

 

[Meursault74]

Hercules vs Diablo.
Now doesn't that sound like it would've make an excellent cage match back in 1985 ?

 

[zendriver]

There have been plenty of videos showing Chinese made electric cars bursting into flames in China, and this also includes electric buses, so at best, the Chinese made electric cars are “just as safe and reliable” as USA made electric cars, which already have caused a number of safety concerns over fires and the difficulty putting those fires out.

Secondly, there have been numerous issues with lithium batteries bursting into flames, from poor manufacturing of the battery cells, or water intrusion into those cells, or short circuiting of those cells, or other damage yo the battery cells.
There are literally videos of people bring incinerated in elevators, from electric scooter batteries bursting into flames while people are in the elevators.
The batteries in electric cars are way bigger, and potentially more dangerous, than the batteries in an electric scooter or bike.

There have been individuals trying to collect old lithium batteries, figuring that eventually those batteries would have recycling value, and one of those individuals stored the old lithium batteries in a warehouse in PA, which caused a major fire, likely started by a battery short circuiting causing a huge number of other batteries to go up in flames.

This essentially means that older electric cars whose batteries no longer hold a charge, are basically highly hazardous waste, with way more potential for being hazardous than basic leaking of fluids from an older ice vehicle.


Once electric cars batteries get old, the current situation seems to be that the cars get scrapped. And recalls of older electric cars have left fields dull of older scrapped electric cars in China.

Now, consider all of the above potential negatives, when combined with a foreign manufacturer, who might shrug and say, “deal with it yourself” if any major issue happened requiring a major recall and scrapped cars.
You would basically have scrapped, “potential incendiary devices” strewn all over the country.

Your view of EV Armageddon has merit but Apparently china and at some of the rest of the world, are still willing to deal with all that and somehow make it work, especially with the global petroleum situation we are now all in.

Fortunately for US we are done with EVs so now we just have continue to deal with getting (and paying for)Dino fuel.