Converting Garage Door to High Lift on the Cheap

[CA_Tallguy]

Hi folks -- here's some of the stuff I learned while installing a garage door and converting it to high lift + "follow the roof pitch" on the cheap. As I describe below, the process isn’t really all that hard and 90% of the work is in re-routing your door tracks.

I would NOT recommend going this route if (A) you are not confident in your ability to tackle spring winding and unwinding safely or (B) your local garage door installer will do all the work with parts for $150 to $200 as some forum members report or (C) you need or want some hand holding and/or you don’t want to spend time learning all about garage doors.

In the case of (B) - From reading a lot of threads, it sounds like some folks have local installers who know "high lift" and can knock out these conversions/installations rather inexpensively (to the point it isn't really worth it to DIY). Others seem to have little luck finding installers that even know what a high lift door is, or they want a small fortune to to a conversion or installation.

In the case of (C) I recommend checking out DDM or DIYGarageRepair for their kits and expertise. DDM has a “wizard” on their website making ordering a custom kit with cables, springs, and all VERY easy.

I decided not to purchase a “high lift kit” since it seemed like there wasn’t much to them and I could get the parts cheaper by sourcing them from a variety of merchants. The kits are generally just a small set of brackets to help you re-route your tracks. They might include a little extra track but you can also usually scavenge a couple feet off the end of your horizontal tracks to re-route your door. Some of the “kits” actually give you the option to re-use your existing track like this to save money.

So, if you think you can sort out how to re-route your tracks yourself, you really don’t need a whole “kit” from the merchants. Several people have posted on the forum here that they found the kits were good to learn how to do it, but that they weren't needed once you have some experience. TIP: make sure you don’t mount your tracks too close to the drum! Note that the top section of your door probably protrudes from your tracks more than other sections down lower so plan for that on the turn!

You can get an idea on how to run your tracks (the breakaway angle needed, etc) by looking at pics of other installations on this forum. I’ll also add some documents and links to this thread.

PARTS NEEDED

• A vast majority of high lift sectional doors I see posted in threads are using a 400-54 high lift drum. You can get a pair for $15 to $20 if you shop around. 400-54 is kind of a generic part number. This is good for up to 54" of high lift (see diagram in next post -- measurement is from TOP OF DOOR). Here's a video primer on high lift and vertical lift drums
• If you don’t already have a torsion spring setup, you need to convert your door to one. One part you’ll need is a 1” OD tube to use as a shaft. I got 24 feet for $12 at my metal yard (a local garage door place wanted some crazy amount of money for the tube they had in inventory). You will also need a pair of end bearing brackets and a center support bracket - with bearings for all brackets but they will likely be included. Those brackets with bearings should cost you about $20 total.
• You will need new torsion springs (even if you have a torsion setup) and online merchants will help you figure out what to get. TIP: order TWO springs for safety and to protect your door from crashing down if (when) one wears out and breaks! I recommend DDM for springs as they were VERY responsive and helpful even though I didn’t buy the whole kit. Note: if you can’t figure out most of the REST of the install without much hand holding, you should just buy the whole kit to compensate the merchants for the time they spend helping you out.
• Winding bars for the springs. Usually available with your spring order or these should work from Amazon http://amzn.to/1C2ZTGE
• You’ll need new cables for your door and you can either make them yourself or order them premade. I ordered pre made so the vendor did the calculations based on data I provide but I paid a $25 premium over cables I could have used off the shelf from Home Depot (with slight modification). My custom cables were 11'11" for $35 + shipping and off the shelf cables were 12' for $8.49 but they would have needed to be crimped on one end of the pair. Similar cables at Amazon: http://amzn.to/1FqMlbM
• You might want to pick up a scrap of track from a local door installer to use in your installation. They will usually have whatever they ripped out from old doors when they install new ones and these tracks are pretty generic. I used the scrap to splice in for the “high lift” section and then I’m going to just trim off the excess track from my horizontal/incline when I get around to it. (You can also use this excess for the “high lift” portion but you better get your measurements and cuts right as you won’t have a lot of excess wiggle room.)
• To route your tracks, you might need some additional brackets and punched angle iron. I bought a garage door hanger kit at the big box store but ended up not needing much out of it. Simpson strong ties have brackety options and short flat ties that can also come in handy. The salvage tracks I picked up also had some brackets that I re-used.
• Probably a good idea to get some safety spring stops for the end of your tracks so you don’t launch the door off the back by accident!

The parts above that were most frustrating for me, surprisingly, were the 1" tubing and salvage track. Several metal shops in my area didn't have 1" OD tubing but I finally called one that did. I found the scrap track by luck when I happened to drive by a garage door company's office/yard! (Around the corner from the metal supply that had the tubing!!) A lot of places seem to want a surprising amount of $$ for new garage door track and tracks/shafts are cumbersome for home delivery via UPS so not cheap that way either.

Anyway -- I keep meaning to write a comprehensive DIY post but always run out of time so this will be my first post on the thread. I'm sure that lots of other folks have great tips too so please chime in!

Of course, one of the best high-lift resources on the web is DDM's...
http://ddmgaragedoors.com/diy-instructions/garage-door-high-lift-conversion.php

You will especially need to pay attention to the measurements section of the above link. I suggest that you re-route your tracks before you try to come up with most of those figures. They are mostly needed in order to buy your springs and cables. You can order the rest of the parts and install them as you re-route your tracks but wait on the cables and springs until after you have everything where you want it.

More to come...

 

[CA_Tallguy]

Here is a pretty good diagram for doing high lift + following your roofline. If you just want to go horizontal, it's pretty much the same thing.

 

[LWW]

Hi folks -- here's some of the stuff I learned while installing a garage door and converting it to high lift + "follow the roof pitch" on the cheap. As I describe below, the process isn’t really all that hard and 90% of the work is in re-routing your door tracks.

I know you took pics of each step in your progress... RIGHT?!

 

[CA_Tallguy]

LOL well here's a pic! This shows how I routed my tracks a bit too close for comfort to the 400-54 drum! What you are looking at is the top of the door coming really really close to the drum, with the door open a couple feet.

This is even AFTER I made some changes during the install to give it more clearance. I strongly advise against trying to squeeze in all your stuff as tightly as mine ended up being! Give yourself a bit more breathing room if you can.

NOTE!! Keep in mind that adjusting the position of your brackets and shaft WILL affect the calculations for buying torsion springs and cables! That's why I recommend that you buy your cables and torsion springs AFTER you have already routed your tracks and installed drums, etc. With a couple of strong guys and if your door isn't TOO heavy, you should be able to test the door to make sure all the clearance is OK. THEN you can take measurements for springs and cables to be sure they are correct. Fortunately, my door still works just great with the torsion springs and cable length that I ordered.

In my photos, also note the simpson strong tie used to splice the salvage (darker colored) track with the track that came with my new door. BTW - I lucked out and got the end brackets and bearings you see there with the salvaged track for FREE.

Also note how far my 1" shaft is protruding... that is to hopefully extend far enough to install a lift master garage door opener (on the other side of the rafters there).

The horizontal/incline angle is just the angle that came with the door. Note: if you bolt on track like this -- where it bolts behind the drum -- make sure to leave a tiny bit of clearance for the bolt head between the end brackets and drums. Probably all you need can be gained when you position the drums on the shaft.

I'll be going back to add more reinforcement brackets/angle in a few places. See where the 2X block is at the top of the radius? One more 2X will slide perfectly in there and I'll just lag bolt the track right to it. That worked out well without planning it.

 

[HotRod68Camaro]

Mind sharing what your cost for parts was? I just got quoted roughly $1200 with all parts/labor and the 8500 included.

 

[MagicMarker]

In North Jersey, one of my quotes was just under $1k to convert a standard opener setup to an 8500 and having the door go straight up.

 

[CA_Tallguy]

for those prices, it sounds like they are going to have their lawyers come out and supervise!

Do you guys already have torsion spring setups or at least "proprietary" (WD torquemaster, clopay ez-set, etc), wound spring type doors with 1" shafts and end/center brackets with bearings? If you have all that, you need less than $100 in parts since you can probably reuse your shaft and bearings/brackets!

I'll break down costs further in my next post.

As far as professional installers, I read dozens of threads on this board with people talking about what they paid. People generally reported they were in one of the following categories....

(1) Many installers were clueless about high lift and vertical lift doors

(2) Other folks had a connection to a reliable, fair installer and could get the whole thing done for a couple hundred bucks, including parts. If you find someone in this camp (and they indeed know what they are talking about with these setups) -- I'd say go for it.

(3) A lot of people reported back with quotes like you guys in the $1000 range. this seems like highway robbery to me!

 

[CA_Tallguy]

So here are some prices....

LIFTMASTER 8500 ("jackshaft") OPENER - Street price seems to be around $314 http://amzn.to/1GJ2vKN

(note that the liftmaster opener seems like it should be one of the easier components here to install! Much easier than a regular garage door opener.)

DRUMS -- Straight up vertical lift ("850-11" generic part number across merchants) for $21 or high lift "400-54" drums for $16 (+$15 in shipping from links below... I bought a few other things to reduce average ship cost per item). Also check eBay and just search around to see where you can get them cheapest with free or low cost shipping factored in. DDM wanted $47 for the high lift drums with shipping so North Shore was a lot cheaper.
http://www.northshorecommercialdoor.com/hiligadocadr1.html
http://www.northshorecommercialdoor.com/veligadocadr.html

SPRINGS -- $40 to $50 for each spring. I paid about $40 X 2 plus $25 in shipping. As I said previously, I highly suggest that you get two springs for safety and so your door doesn't get trashed if (when) one wears out and breaks. I'd recommend going with DDM as they are responsive and this is an item where you need some guidance and their expertise. Spring prices seemed reasonable too, and I feel confident they are not cheap quality.

WINDING BARS - $9 @ DDM + shipping or you can just use round bar stock. Shipping cost above included the winding bars and a few other items. You can also get bars at amazon for about $15 with free shipping....
http://amzn.to/1C2ZTGE

CABLES - $9 at big box stores or amazon for 12' http://amzn.to/1FqMlbM (You will also need to crimp the ends on those so extra $ for that.) If you need more than 12' per side, you can fabricate your own with this 50' of cable or heavier for $11 http://amzn.to/18RRkEm (I paid $36 for a pair of custom 11'11" cables assembled and size calculated by DDM.) North Shore Door has various sized cable assemblies for $10 to $25 with FREE shipping.

TOTAL FOR DOOR PARTS -- above is what most people will need if you already have a 1" shaft and your end/center brackets and bearings and it comes up to around $100, shipping included, for ONE spring or another $40 or so if you want 2 springs (highly advised).

I also needed a shaft and that cost me $12 for 24 feet at a metal supply locally. As I said, I got my salvage tracks and end brackets + bearings for FREE. I paid $11 for a center bracket and bearing (upgrade in quality from $8 version) from DDM. You may NOT NEED extra track if you can be very careful in planning out and measuring how to modify and run your existing tracks.

I also spent $20 or $30 at home depot for a "garage door track hanger kit" (more angle iron and bolts than I really needed) and some random simpson strong ties.

Finally, I spent $25 for some bumper springs (THESE WERE OVERKILL for my 9x7 door... VERY HEAVY DUTY) and $5 for a slide lock (NICE quality, heavy duty) from North Shore Door.
http://www.northshorecommercialdoor.com/gadolebusp9.html
http://www.northshorecommercialdoor.com/ungadosilofo.html

MY TOTAL SPEND (including $85 to $100 in extras and $46 shipping) = $267: $163 to DDM (*two* torsion springs, winding bars, custom cables, upgrade center bracket+bearing, shipping), $62 to North Shore (drums, slide lock, bumper springs, shipping), maybe $30 to home depot for random hardware & door track hanger kit, and $12 for the 1" OD shaft from metal supply. Note that I believe I got some high cycle upgraded torsion springs from DDM, not just your cheap-o springs.

For 'extras' I'm counting the bumper springs, extra torsion spring, slide lock, garage door hanger kit and paying too much for cables.

I have not yet purchased my Liftmaster since I don't even have power ready in the building yet.

This does not include the cost of door itself -- JUST $100 for a new Wayne-Dalton 8000 series 9x7 from lowes. I think store had special ordered it and customer didn't want it so it was AMAZING deep discount. I insulated the door myself with rigid foam polyiso - 2 layers of 3/4 inch. I also filled in behind some of the support brackets areas with great stuff spray foam.

If you have a Menards in your area, they seem to carry a LOT more stuff for garage doors including shafts IN STOCK than my orange and blue big box stores locally. $11 for 9'9" or $20 for 17' shaft. Winding bars for $7/ea so $14/pair. Torsion springs (yes, IN STOCK) for $35 or so each... if you can figure out what ones you need. Maybe extra track too?

 

[CA_Tallguy]

Figured maybe I should post a pic of my overall door install. Sorry for the glare from my Airstream outside! This shows the 9x7 door fully open. You can see the excess track at the top/back that I still need to trim. Also, I've not yet installed any bumper springs or stop on the tracks.

This just serves as the side door to the workshop. I'm finally going to pour most of my remaining (interior) concrete in the morning! Hooray!

 

[CA_Tallguy]

Quick note on making your own cables -- found out that what you would need is a swaging tool and tonight at Home Depot I saw they had some that look like bolt cutters for about $20... http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lehigh-Swaging-Tool-ST18S/100243794

Strangely, Amazon doesn't carry anything in this style as cheap. There is another style they have that looks similar to what you'd use to flare copper tubing... http://amzn.to/1OXaZnm

The type that looks like bolt cutters seems superior.

If I would have known about that $20 tool I *might* have opted to make my own cables since HD also stocks a 12' pair of cables with one end pre-made for $9. It would have taken a bit more research for me to learn about swaging (a quick search of the site here shows there are lots of posts on the subject). There are few details I'd have to learn about, such as the type of ferrules/stops to use (what metal) and sounds like you can also get a go/no-go gauge to make sure your crimps came out right. Pretty important considering how much weight can be on the door, stressing it at ALL times it is open with these high/vertical lift installs.

For me, even though with the tool cost it would have cost me as much to make my own as for custom cables, it might have been worth the time to learn so I could swage cables for other stuff too. The reason I was looking at the stuff today was because I wanted to swage some of the unused cable I had from my garage door package for overhead shelving supports. So I may be picking up that $20 tool anyway.

 

[showmedata]

Total necropost, but on the off chance you’re still monitoring...
Why do you need different springs for the conversion? The door weight doesn’t change, and the total travel distance (and this # of shaft revolutions) doesn’t change... so why should the springs change?

Thanks for sharing your work.

 

[CA_Tallguy]

It has been awhile but I think because the weight is not taken off of the door as much for high lift you need stronger springs. For a normal opening door, once the segments of a door go to horizontal they are no longer pushing down to try to close. It is only the segments that are NOT yet horizontal that will pull them back down that you are trying to resist.

For a "high lift" door, the segments never go horizontal so therefore there is still weight and gravity trying to pull it back…. and pull all of it back.

There are calculations to figure out what you need. Looking back at my posts here, I do recall that DDM instructions were great https://ddmgaragedoors.com/diy-instructions/garage-door-high-lift-conversion.php

And I think some of the sites that sell parts may have calculators.

At the DDM link it talks about the springs and the weight of the door. Do you just need to gather your data and then run the formulas.

If you have some good size springs now, I think you can probably keep one of them on one side and make up the difference on the other side. (double check this with other sources…. this is just a guess after not looking at garage door info for 5 years)

 

[CA_Tallguy]

Also keep in mind that number of shaft revolutions DOES probably change. These configurations use a differently shaped drum that tapers. There are lots of little adjustments to make it work. It starts to make sense when you dig in to it, or maybe when installing.

 

[Paul_VR6]

The folks at ddm were very helpful in getting the right parts. I already had dual springs on mine but there were some funny measurements (one spring longer). Found out that one spring must have broken in the past and replaced so I had to weigh the door to make sure I got big enough springs for the lift.

 

[eastbaysubaru]

I ended up using tapered drums when I converted my door to high-lift. I can't recall where I got that recommendation but the door works flawlessly. I got lucky when I called around for the angled brackets as the garage door guy ended up giving them to me for free (along with a handful of the short carriage bolts). I used my original springs as the door was still going to remain horizontal. I would have considered changing them if my door was going to go from horizontal in the open position to any sort of angle.

-Brian

 

[bum crack]

Great timing, im looking at also extending the rail in my garage to flow closer to the ceiling, basically looking for a 2.5ft vertical increase on the current arrangement.

I moved in a year ago and the previous owner had installed new insulated garage door and opener and what looks like new twin torsion spring set up.

The garage door is 8.5ft tall with the torsion spring 8 inches above that, it pulls into the horizontal position almost immediatly, maybe 2 inches before it bends, so asking a Dr Pepper question, (whats the worse that can happen) if i just buy new drums and cable for the increased height then put it all back together in the new position, if the spring is not powerful enough then i could just buy one at that later stage? I dont think it would be dangerous but i dont want to feature on the Darwin awards either
And, a numpty question, could i increase the spring tightening a few more ratchets to offset the possible extra weight of 1 of the panel it would need to lift before the door goes horizontal again?

Realise your not an expert, but if someone has an opinion (and it seems who doesnt these days) im all ears

 

[Paul_VR6]

Taking it all apart and putting it back together isn't trivial and if I had the wrong springs when I got done I would have probably moved [emoji28]

 

[cad70]

I spent $292 dollars with DDM for the high lift kit, and had a spare drum tube and track to do my install.

Order Summary
Description Quantity Unit Price Total Cost
End Bearing Plate 3 3/8" CL 12 Ga - Kit Freeway (Pair)
Part #: EBP-338KF 1 $34.74 $34.74
High Lift Hardware Kit - Custom Set (Set)
Part #: HL-HDW 1 $135.00 $135.00
Spring Anchor Bracket Slotted Freeway - Kit (Residential)
Part #: SAB-450KF 1 $13.23 $13.23
Torsion Spring w/ Cones: L Wind, 2" ID, 0.192" wire, 24.25" long
Part #: SPB-192-24-25L 1 $43.59 $43.59
Torsion Spring w/ Cones: R Wind, 2" ID, 0.192" wire, 24.25" long
Part #: SPB-192-24-25R 1 $43.59 $43.59
Subtotal $270.15
Shipping $22.58
Sales Tax (when applicable) $0.00
Total: $292.73

 

[mmb617]

I spent $292 dollars with DDM for the high lift kit, and had a spare drum tube and track to do my install.

I am very much a DIY guy but I also got the experts to figure out and supply the drums, cables, cones and spring that I needed to do my conversion. I was good with cutting and welding the track to the new configuration but I had to buy the new parts anyways so I let the supplier tell me what I needed. I had no way to figure that out on my own.

It was 10 years ago but I think all I had to give them was the height and weight of the door and how high it went before going horizontal. They set me up with the right parts and the door has worked perfectly ever since.

 

[Komlie]

Did you have to use a key on the 400-54 drums? Did you have to cut a key way in the new shaft that you bought? I'm trying to understand the keyway. I was looking to buy 400-54 drums for a high lift conversion but it talks about using a solid torsion tube and a key. I just bought new garage door that have a 2 piece torsion bar but it doesn't have a key way cut into it. Also, was your torsion bar solid or hollow.

 

[cpakalolo]

Total necropost, but on the off chance you’re still monitoring...
Why do you need different springs for the conversion? The door weight doesn’t change, and the total travel distance (and this # of shaft revolutions) doesn’t change... so why should the springs change?

Thanks for sharing your work.

It's not a necropost if it hasn't been ten years. We need to fire up this thread to see what people are doing now that a lot of people are high lifting their doors for vehicle lifts. Anyone know where to get track radius's that are not 90 degrees?

 

[firebirdparts]

cut it. I did my high-lift myself for free. It's not straight up, though. that would have cost some money to do.

 

[cpakalolo]

cut it. I did my high-lift myself for free. It's not straight up, though. that would have cost some money to do.

I am wanting to do vertical or high lift to my garage door too. I am going from a 9.5 foot ceiling to a 12.5 foot ceiling by converting trusses to rafters and ridge beam. I am looking into going back with a high lift, but it is obviously quite challenging to figure out. Your write-up has me going again. I have installed many doors over time, but I always let the commercial doors go to the door guys. I can't figure out if I need to do a high lift or a vertical cone. And I need to figure out spring rates too. I have a Wayne Dalton door, so I will not be able to re-use the bar, spools, cables or springs at all. I saw your pictures and my door will be quite similar. I will go from 8 feet to 12 feet on the ceiling height and then will follow the 5-12 slope upward just like your pictures. My question is: will a high lift spool be better or will a vertical lift spool be better? It's both. A high lift keeps good spring tension through the first half of the lift and then gives less where it levels off. A vertical one keeps strong spring tension all the way up. Are there any specific jack shaft openers one would recommend?

 

[firebirdparts]

If the door just slopes up, the ordinary spool is "correct" actually. Door weight is linear. You just need the right spring. If the door goes vertical and then slopes, you need the "high lift" but it's not going to be exactly perfect. You should, I think, have a spot where the door isn't really weightless.

 

[cpakalolo]

If the door just slopes up, the ordinary spool is "correct" actually. Door weight is linear. You just need the right spring. If the door goes vertical and then slopes, you need the "high lift" but it's not going to be exactly perfect. You should, I think, have a spot where the door isn't really weightless.

I am thinking the same as you. The high lift sees less tension at the end. The vertical sees consistent tension as it goes up. Since I am going up one foot and then at a 5/12 slope, so it will act more like a vertical lift. I am going to weigh the door for new springs and make up the tracks. Afterwards, I guess I will do some trial and error. Thanks

 

[jstroede]

I would say if you are going to go the trial and error route, be ready for a LOT of error.