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Skil vs Skilsaw: brand dilution?

dwasifar

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May 28, 2017
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Chervon owns the Skil brand, and they market Skil as a homeowner brand and Skilsaw as a pro brand. This division apparently goes back to when Bosch briefly owned the marque.

There's a lot of confusion around this, even here on this forum; I've seen people rhetorically asking why pay $700 for a Skilsaw table saw when you can get a Ryobi for half that? So clearly the brands are not sufficiently differentiated. I understand Chervon is trying to trade on the Skil brand's long history, but as long as low-end Skil homeowner products are out there, the potential for confusion continues.

How do you think Chervon should address this? Should they try harder to differentiate the Skilsaw division, or give up and rebrand to some other name?
 
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dnschmidt

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Oct 3, 2014
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Phoenix, AZ
Does it matter? A worm drive saw is a Skilsaw and normal Skil power tools I would place above Ryobi and about equal to Bauer at HF. I have a Skil portable table saw I bought for $300 and it's better than what I paid for it. It works fine. Chervon already fucked up FLEX why give them another chance to **** up Skil?
 
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dwasifar

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Does it matter? If potential pro customers are dismissing Skilsaw out of hand because they think it's the same level of product as the Skil line, then yes, that should matter to Chervon. Every time that happens is a potential lost sale - not to Ryobi or Bauer, but to DeWalt or Makita.
 
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dwasifar

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Skil could disappear tomorrow and nobody would care

It's a legit garbage brand, lower then Ryobi and HF.

It is, which begs the original question, should, Chervon rebrand the pro line (currently called Skilsaw) to distinguish it from Skil?

We're only five messages into this discussion and already I'm not sure you guys get that they're two separate brands.
 

jack stand

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Feb 29, 2012
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Lakes Region Maine
I differentiate the difference. Skil Worm drives (7.25, 10" Bigfoot & 14" Saquach) is all that's left of that brand to me.
It's just like Dewalt used to be only serious stationary radial arm saws instead of basically Harry home owner portable tools and the same goes for B&D.
Rigid was professional pipe tools also instead of a discount big box line. They're 2 lines seem to operate separately successfully.
 

Aaron_W

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Feb 6, 2018
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Northern California
Does it matter? If potential pro customers are dismissing Skilsaw out of hand because they think it's the same level of product as the Skil line, then yes, that should matter to Chervon. Every time that happens is a potential lost sale - not to Ryobi or Bauer, but to DeWalt or Makita.

I'm pretty sure they are betting on the homeowner DIY market making the association with Skilsaw and that raising the perceived quality of Skil tools.

The wormdrive Skilsaw is a staple in the construction industry that is unlikely to change anytime soon, and certainly not due to pros mistaking it for the lesser Skil brand.
 
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neophyte

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Chervon niw owns the SKIL and SKILSAW brands, alongside other brands such as FLEX l, and Ego and a brand called Devon, which I have no knowledge of.
In addition, Chervon is likely the OEM for other power tool brands, including some of the Bosch saws that were based on Skilsaw designs.

As far as “Brand recognition” or “Brand reputation” go, who cares.
People still get confused about past brands, and where in the marketplace those brands existed, let alone nowadays, if the brands still exist.

People who really know, or care, will hunt down the higher quality tools and brands or models.
People who don’t will just complain on the internet.
Porter Cable manufactured both portable, and stationary power tools, as well as stands so the portable power tools could be used as “stationary” power tools.
Despite what I’ve seen claimed, these portable power tools used in stands were not just home owner equipment, they were made for industrial use, by professionals, in both small shops and at industrial factories.
Later, Porter Cable was bought by Rockwell International, and the tools where relabeled as Rockwell models, using the same model numbers.
A couple decades later, the brand was sold off again, this time to Pentair, who did not get the Rockwell name, who then started using the Porter Cable branding again.
A bit over a couple decades later still, Pentair’s power tool division got sold to Black & Decker, who kept some stuff, and discontinued other models, and who sold Porter Cable’s sister manufacturer of stationary equipment, Delta, off to a Chinese company.
While Black & Decker have occasionally dipped their toes into the stationary power tool market, they routinely remove themselves after a decade or so.
Black & Decker later used the Porter Cable branding for tool models sold at Lowes, that seemed to be Black & Decker Firestorm tools, possibly made with better components. (This was claimed in a woodworking magazine by a writer that supposedly contacted B&D).
As far as Black & Decker goes, they started out in a similar market to Porter Cable.
They manufactured “Industrial” quality tools, and continued doing so, even after buying the Dewalt brand.
I’m not sure that the “Porter Cable” branding was ever used on “homeowner grade” tools, but the Rockwell branding was, while Rockwell owned “Porter Cable”, and so the then “Rockwell” tools, which were essentially Porter Cable tools, would have been marked under the sane exact branding as “cheap” homeowner grade tools.
I kniw this because somewhere, I still have a cheap Rockwell drill, that cost $10 new, maybe in the 1970s, that my parents owned.
It still works, but is likely similar in quality to the cheap “Black & Decker” branded tools, from the same era, that screwed up Black & Decker’s reputation with professional tool users, to the point that Black and Decker bought Dewalt for their name.
Black & Decker where still manufacturing top quality tools under the B&D branding into the later 1990s at least, although usually as “Black & Decker Professional, or Industrial”.
Some of those tools got rebranded as Dewalt, and Elu, a high end, well regarded European brand of portable power tools, which Black & Decker also bought, and the Dewalt branded tools in some cases are still being made.

Incidentally, for all those people who hate Black & Decker, for “killing” brands.
Boack & Decker didn’t kill off Dewalt, ie. the radial arm saw manufacturer.
B&D tried selling B&D branded radial arm saws, which didn’t work I guess, so the the product line was sold off, I think to the plant managers, and a large amount of the product line is still manufactured as “The Original Saw Company”.
Elu, the European power tool manufacturer, also made industrial stationary tools, and B&D didn’t rake over that portion of the manufacturing, that still exists as Elumatec.
B&D just took over the portable power tool sections of the brands.
I think they fid the same for some other smaller brands, where they took the part of the brand that would add to the portable power tool lineup, and left the manufacturers with a paycheck, and sometimes what was left.
In the case of Elu, B&D spent decades tweaking the routers motors for better performance, to the point where the motors would sometimes beat higher wattage rated motors.

As far as the Skilsaw and Skil branding, Skil was being used gor the cheaper line of Bosch tools at the end when Bosch owned the branding, with the exception of the actual circular saws.
The Skil branded circular saws however were left with the older designs, and Bosch put all the bells and whistles, and “advanced” features, onto Bosch saw models based on the original Skil designs.
I hebe not checked thru older Skil power tool catalogs, but if Skil was like otherUS power tool brands, they also likely made “homeowner grade” tools, and the current “cheap” Skil branded tools are probably better than the vintage cheap Skil tools.
 

finn

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Mar 27, 2005
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The UP, God's country
I have a couple of Skill battery tools, and they do fine considering what I paid for the. They’re what I consider “Utility Grade”, better than house brands like Ryobi , Ridgid, and Kobalt, all of which I lump in the same Utility Grade category.

For more demanding work, I’ll break out the Dewalt or Milwaukee tools, but the fact is that 90% of my projects aren’t all that demanding, and the Skill does the job, at a very reasonable price point. How good of a battery drill do you need to serve as a dedicated Tungsten grinder with a dedicated HF bench grinder and diamond dressing wheel?

My biggest issue is that if I see a red driver or drill across the room, I sometimes take a few seconds to figure out if it is the Milwaukee or Skil.

Nostalgia for “what a brand once was” has very little significance to the twenty or thirty year olds that will be doing the bulk of the tool purchases over the next thirty years. If he’s (or she’s) a pro, he’ll quickly succumb to peer pressure and buy whatever brand his peer group (often falsely) deems to be the must have brand. If Skillsaw fits, there’s a market for it.

The “ casual user” is more likely to be influenced by price and availability, ie what HD, Lowe’s, or Menards has on sale over the holidays. Milwaukee and Dewalt both offer low end “junk” that’s no better, and probably no worse than the Skil consumer offerings, but I don’t see anyone wringing their hands over that fact, and they’ve been offering low end junk withe the big brand name for years.

Hasn’t seemed to hurt the brand image. The fan boys just sort of sweep it under the rug.

I suspect the Chinese imports with the bewildering names and no “history” will be the biggest market share gainers in the next five years. I have a few tools that fit that category, and have not been disappointed. Every time I buy one, though, it’s a little gut wrenching, as I’m betraying nostal brands, even though I know I can’t live in the past.

I personally had a hard time buying Milwaukee again after their US operations all but folded and they became a Chinese (Hong Kong) based company. I got over it, though.
 

YesIHaveAHammer

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Jun 1, 2025
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774
Nostalgia for “what a brand once was” has very little significance to the twenty or thirty year olds that will be doing the bulk of the tool purchases over the next thirty years.
These guys are discovering through sub-1 minute videos on Instagram Reels and TikTok. That's where the story of tools for the next couple of decades is being written.

I suspect the Chinese imports with the bewildering names and no “history” will be the biggest market share gainers in the next five years.
It's all just "that A off Amazon" and "that B that influencer was showing a couple of weeks ago". Brand names aren't going to matter as much as they used to. They're all interchangeable, and much of what carries weight with us 40+ counts for nothing.
 

William Payne

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Mar 15, 2010
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Location
Wanganui, New Zealand
We don’t have worm drive skilsaws down here. The ergonomics look great when I watch people using them in videos so I looked it up. Apparently the worm drive was due to the USA having the lower single phase voltage. Us having 230v made it pointless apparently. But they look so easy and comfortable to use I wish someone would make one. Dewalt make one close in a battery saw but I’m left handed and the blade is on the wrong side for me.
 
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