anyone know what the LP stands for in this pic?
- Thread starter garilla
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Beerhippie
Well-known member
Long Playing. Typically run at 33rpm, 20-30 minutes per side.
four.cycle
Well-known member
^Alternatively, we might be talking about Obenauf's LP 
are there any other markings/stampings on the grinder which might offer a clue as to the manufacturer?
names? symbols? patent dates? patent numbers?
I have to wonder if there's any possibility we're supposed to be seeing LTP ?
are there any other markings/stampings on the grinder which might offer a clue as to the manufacturer?
names? symbols? patent dates? patent numbers?
I have to wonder if there's any possibility we're supposed to be seeing LTP ?
Wrench97
Well-known member
Google Fu says
four.cycle
Well-known member
Luther / Luther Grinder Mfg. Co., 925 Point St., Milwaukee, WI / post drill, bench grinder, vise / TM 431312 Jul 15 1947 first use 1905 / http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=1853&tab=0 /
Sounds plausible, but there doesn't appear to be any mention of "Luther Power" or "Luther Products" anywhere in any Luther catalog or literature currently available, nor does there appear to have ever been a business using the name "Luther Power" or "Luther Products".
Luther Grinder & Tool Co. at International Tool Catalog Library
From every indication, Luther's grinders were marked with one of their four trademarked logos, their stylized "Luther" name appearing to be the most commonly used:
TM 431312 Jul 15 1947 Luther first use 1905
Until presented evidence to the contrary, I submit that this is yet another example of the complete and total failure of "AI" to deliver accurate information in the world of vintage tools. The Google "AI" response is 100% hallucination.
If there is something else marked or stamped on the unit that would associate it with Luther Grinder & Tool Co., I could be persuaded otherwise.
Fortunately there are creative individuals and businesses currently doing their best to sabotage "AI" and render it absolutely, totally, and completely useless.
Now back to our regular broadcast: can we get back to trying to figure out who made this gizmo?
Sounds plausible, but there doesn't appear to be any mention of "Luther Power" or "Luther Products" anywhere in any Luther catalog or literature currently available, nor does there appear to have ever been a business using the name "Luther Power" or "Luther Products".
Luther Grinder & Tool Co. at International Tool Catalog Library
From every indication, Luther's grinders were marked with one of their four trademarked logos, their stylized "Luther" name appearing to be the most commonly used:
TM 431312 Jul 15 1947 Luther first use 1905
Until presented evidence to the contrary, I submit that this is yet another example of the complete and total failure of "AI" to deliver accurate information in the world of vintage tools. The Google "AI" response is 100% hallucination.
If there is something else marked or stamped on the unit that would associate it with Luther Grinder & Tool Co., I could be persuaded otherwise.
Fortunately there are creative individuals and businesses currently doing their best to sabotage "AI" and render it absolutely, totally, and completely useless.
Now back to our regular broadcast: can we get back to trying to figure out who made this gizmo?
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Cruzan80
Well-known member
So yelling at someone who didn't finish the part doesn't do anyone any good. I just did the same, and it came back with Lincoln Power, and the same reasoning.
Here is me pushing back on it a bit... And, yes, it said it did try and do it's best. How exactly is that any different than a "Whatzit" thread with random guesses? Not saying "Take AI as 100% correct gospel", but if you "trust but verify" (the same way you do with anyone else who posts), does it really matter? It has been decent about filling in patterns to identify other obscure logos, from what I have seen. Just ask it to confirm if you aren't sure.
four.cycle
Well-known member
Well, since you ask:
Google's "AI" bot is not going to pay much attention to all of those random guesses. If it did, we would be seeing "saw set" being returned by AI bots on a frequent basis, thanks to @Old Man Roger - because the "AI" bots are feeding on their own nonsense, which I believe I fairly well conclusively proved on the Landers, Frary & Clark "hot water bottle" HERE
"AI" feeds on its own nonsense.
And that is why it is much different than random wild-*** guesses in a "whatzit" thread.
It's useless, and I really wish members would stop posting the "AI" responses here, because another"AI" bot will pick it up and run with it. The evidence of that being so is in that Landers, Frary & Clark entry.
I cannot imagine what further evidence is necessary to convince people here that it's useless when it comes to vintage tools, because (as we have seen repeatedly) it just makes **** up.
four.cycle
Well-known member
FWIW: I just ran into this again today after coming home with that model 328 "Quaker City" hacksaw, which GOOGLE's AI bot insisted was manufactured by Quaker City Saw in Ontario, Canada.
After poking around more, and trying a different search engine, I was able to accurately determine that it had in fact been manufactured by the Henry Disston saw company of Philadelphia, PA.
"AI" is a goddam waste of time when it comes to vintage tools.
After poking around more, and trying a different search engine, I was able to accurately determine that it had in fact been manufactured by the Henry Disston saw company of Philadelphia, PA.
"AI" is a goddam waste of time when it comes to vintage tools.
scooterbum46
Well-known member
Based on some a lot of "whatzit" responses, I'm pretty sure some of our fellow GJ'ers are already AI agents..
Beerhippie
Well-known member
four.cycle
Well-known member
hmmm... I don't think so... we just have a lot of jokers here. Not a big deal. The world would be a pretty dull place without comedians.
I've invested countless hours chasing these things down - I went through every single thing I could find connected with "Luther" earlier today - accomplishing only what I had suspected as soon as I saw the "AI" post above: determining that it was complete nonsense.
For the life of me, I cannot understand why members here continue to use it with vintage tools.
Please cite for me ONE instance - on this website - where an "AI" bot accurately identified the item and the manufacture of an item that a member brought in and asked "What is this?"
I'm not interested in explanations about "LLMs" or claims that the user "isn't asking the correct questions" - that's all superfluous ********.
Show me ONE instance of an "AI" bot correctly identifying and naming the correct manufacturer of a vintage tool or device from a photo image.
Just one.
Convince me. Change my mind.
Otherwise, stop posting it.
RTM
Well-known member
Google Lens is a form of AI
A certain Presto Log cutter from yesterday.
I had to pick thru a few choices tho, so I am the "verify" step.
Anyway
I tried this LP search, including all the text around the triangle. Each time I did a Google search, I looked at the AI response, and searched both regular Google and Google books. Nothing it gave me was a real company name or trademark. Finally added -ai to my search string, and got nothing better.
Old Man Roger
Well-known member
I’m effectively retarding AI? 
Lassen Forge
Well-known member
The Leaning Pizza Manufacturery Company was formed in 1903 as a competitor of Acme Brands. Famous for numerous innovations in the innovating field, from their RD (Reusable Disposable) diaper series (Spokesperson Mae West once said "These are the S#!t!" ), where they first used their trademarked motto "Quality, Durability, Dependability" to burgulary tools, their "safecracker" prybar series made famous by the notorious Beagle Boys. In the early 1940's, as part of the war effort, they expanded into both the tool stand market and the portable player accordian lines.
Currently they are a subsidiary of the Cyberdyne Systems division of the renowned Weyland-Yutani Corporation.
(And see, I didn't even need AI to come up with that reflective nonsense....)
Currently they are a subsidiary of the Cyberdyne Systems division of the renowned Weyland-Yutani Corporation.
(And see, I didn't even need AI to come up with that reflective nonsense....)
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3baygarage
Well-known member
Can you add the pry bar and logo? Might give us more of a hint
four.cycle
Well-known member
Point taken, but in that particular scenario, YOU "picked through a few choices" to "verify".
That's not what is happening in these other instances. Rather, the "AI" response is simply being copied and pasted into a window and posted on the web somewhere by individuals who either lack the capacity to think on their own or are too lazy to do the "verify" step.
I have done the same thing with Google "lens" - and invariably I am led off on a wild goose chase (as was the case with the "Quaker City" saw yesterday. (Although I will concede, on the flip side, that it did result in two new entries in the LIST, so maybe there's some "silver lining" there.)
I do sincerely hope so.I’m effectively retarding AI?
I think perhaps being sent off on a four-hour wild goose chase yesterday (on an item I don't even own or have any interest in) on the internet because of an erroneous "AI" return kind of set me off there.
I could have used that time to pick my nose, or contemplate my navel, or talked to the birds.
RTM
Well-known member
I’m gonna start googling that daily, see how long it takes AI to find it.
d42jeep
Well-known member
DId someone mention Acme? I received this in a care package. 
Everything you could want to know about the wrench courtesy of Google AI.
-Don
Everything you could want to know about the wrench courtesy of Google AI.
-Don
RTM
Well-known member
But no mention of the coyote, obvious omission of important facts.DId someone mention Acme? I received this in a care package.
Everything you could want to know about the wrench courtesy of Google AI.
-Don
Miss the Pontiacs
Well-known member
LP just happens to be my wife’s initials and yes she is a grinder. 
Miss the Pontiacs
Well-known member
And before anyone gets carried away here is the definition of a grinder. 
A Hard Worker (General Slang): She consistently puts her head down, hustles, and works tirelessly to achieve her goals. In professional or business settings, a "grinder" is an industrious, highly determined person who will relentlessly "get the job done," even if it is difficult or monotonous.
A Hard Worker (General Slang): She consistently puts her head down, hustles, and works tirelessly to achieve her goals. In professional or business settings, a "grinder" is an industrious, highly determined person who will relentlessly "get the job done," even if it is difficult or monotonous.
Cruzan80
Well-known member
Sorry, but seeing as how, in this thread, I posted me doing some work to try and verify what it said, and then copy/pasted those results, I think you are painting with a bit too large a brush.
What I was trying to say upthread, (and either didn't say clearly enough, or you were too huper-focused on the argument you thought I was making), is that AI can help with vintage LOGO identification. Not a specific tool, or who made it (hell, we still get people posting surprised that Sears didn't make any Craftsman tools themselves). I don't drop a tool in and say "what is it, who made it", but have had some luck with showing it worn logos and it correctly filling in what is needed to ID the brand.
d42jeep
Well-known member
Old Man Roger
Well-known member
Oh the hours I’ve spent on whatzit threads.lol The worst is when you really get into it and forget to check the thread. You come back to it only to see someone figured it out long ago.lolPoint taken, but in that particular scenario, YOU "picked through a few choices" to "verify".
That's not what is happening in these other instances. Rather, the "AI" response is simply being copied and pasted into a window and posted on the web somewhere by individuals who either lack the capacity to think on their own or are too lazy to do the "verify" step.
I have done the same thing with Google "lens" - and invariably I am led off on a wild goose chase (as was the case with the "Quaker City" saw yesterday. (Although I will concede, on the flip side, that it did result in two new entries in the LIST, so maybe there's some "silver lining" there.)
I do sincerely hope so.
I think perhaps being sent off on a four-hour wild goose chase yesterday (on an item I don't even own or have any interest in) on the internet because of an erroneous "AI" return kind of set me off there.
I could have used that time to pick my nose, or contemplate my navel, or talked to the birds.
four.cycle
Well-known member
four.cycle
Well-known member
Of course I am. Don't take me so seriously. I try not to, myself.
All of our experiences - and the results we get back - are all different. No two of us have had exactly the same sort of experience with "AI".
In my case, it has been maddeningly inaccurate. Wildly inaccurate when it comes to vintage tools.
I'd submit that ebay's "AI" bot is probably the worst of the lot - embellishing every "description" with superfluous, nonsensical fluff.
(I very clearly demonstrated that with all of the "AI" returns on that Landers, Frary, and Clark unit I cited HERE.)
"Bombast" would be the correct term, and from the correct origins:
bombast n. 1. Grandiloquent and pompous speech or writing. 2. Formerly, a soft material used for padding. Earlier bombaste, cotton padding, from Old French, from Late Latin bombax, cotton, silk, alteration from Latin bombyx, silkworm, silk, from Greek bombux, of Oriental origin, akin to Turkish pambuk, cotton.
Synonyms:: bombast, declamation, rant, fustian, claptrap, rotomontade. All these terms designate speech or writing that emphasizes extravagance or style of delivery, usually at the expense of content.
"Padding" - Just like the codpieces of the 15th Century - stuffed with fluff to make it appear to be something it is not.
I see little difference, however, between the ******** spewed out by ebay's "AI" bot and Google's "AI" bot - they're both full of pretentious horseshit presented in a manner to lull the reader into thinking they're actually getting some substance.
If you're having great success with it, more power to you. My luck with it has been less than dismal. I hate it. I want to murder the person who came up with this idea, then dig up his body and kill him again, like they did with Oliver Cromwell.
I think I'm on safe ground here with my position. A person from high above described it as a "runaway freight train".
We're just unwitting victims, chained to the tracks.
Lassen Forge
Well-known member
LP just happens to be my wife’s initials and yes she is a grinder.
Hey, I've been called a Grinder in my earlier years, but I've never heard a complaint about it.
Lassen Forge
Well-known member
GawDarn, I feel like an AI legend, now.
Bing leads me back to this LP thread.
How the f*** they do that blows me away, like the illusion of the submarine in Disneyland, but I now wish I had really pumped up "Lassen Forge" to make me some illegetimate and unearned pecunium at someone's behest. After all, it's the American way!!
I keep telling our COO and chef/bottlewasher, Mrs Forge, the whole thing makes me laugh. But maybe not.... There is a future in false narratives.
Wanna buy a share in my submarine screen door company? I feel a flood of opportunity there....
Have you checked wit AI to be sure there is not a Submarine Screen Door Sealant available . . . free shipping, of course.
RTM
Well-known member
Old Man Roger
Well-known member
Sounds like a flex seal commercial.lo.
four.cycle
Well-known member
Correct.
Which is why we should be a gatekeeper.
Have you noticed in your "AI" search results that the "AI" bot is citing individuals here by name? @Private Lugnutz, @d42jeep, myself, and others come up repeatedly when I using Google digging around for manufacturer's locations, history, or patents. I cannot begin to count the number of times I've seen that sort of thing.
I'm thinking I'll order some take-out later from the Leaning Pizza Manufacturey Company.
Maybe I can get a side of that Limestone Lettuce Salad we used to get at Trader Vic's - the lettuce is grown in limestone caves in southern France. Never sees the light of day. (for real. ask my mom about it.)
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Beerhippie
Well-known member
Now there's a name I haven't heard in years!Alternatively, we might be talking about Obenauf's LP
Reminds it's about time to hit the ol' Kenetreks with some wax....
four.cycle
Well-known member
My mom called a bit ago.
I asked her about the salad.
Her memory was a bit better than mine.
Yes, it was at Trader Vic's.
"Limestone Lettuce Salad"
Grown in limestone caves in southern France by dwarves. Never saw the light of day.
Was an exclusive item on their menu - like their "Bongo Bongo Soup".
This has absolutely nothing to do with Pina Coladas, or anyone's hair being perfect, just for the record.
I asked her about the salad.
Her memory was a bit better than mine.
Yes, it was at Trader Vic's.
"Limestone Lettuce Salad"
Grown in limestone caves in southern France by dwarves. Never saw the light of day.
Was an exclusive item on their menu - like their "Bongo Bongo Soup".
This has absolutely nothing to do with Pina Coladas, or anyone's hair being perfect, just for the record.