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Need Advice On Installing OSB To Garage Trusses

mike93lx

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House was built in '85, has been re-shingled once, doubt there is anything under it. I used some snap lock panels last summer that I like, but honestly house is probably worth screw down, which I don't want to do (bad prior experiences screwing one down).

I should start a thread, my ventilation is a little odd too
I wouldn't do screw down on anything beyond a ag building. Either standing seam or asphalt.

I need to do the roof on my current house in a few years and have thought about standing seam, but I don't want to live here long enough to justify it
 
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WisJim

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What is a "standard truss"?
The truss equivalent of a "standard door" or a "standard window". When I worked in a lumber yard, I was amazed at how many people came in or called and wanted a price on a "standard" or "regular" window, and had no concept of different sizes, types, etc. And that was over 40 years ago, I can't imagine it's better now.
 

PCustoms

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The truss equivalent of a "standard door" or a "standard window". When I worked in a lumber yard, I was amazed at how many people came in or called and wanted a price on a "standard" or "regular" window, and had no concept of different sizes, types, etc. And that was over 40 years ago, I can't imagine it's better now.

To further derail the thread, years back I saw two pre-hung interior doors on clearance. Special order, some weird combination of jamp, hinge, paint etc. completely undistinguishable from the "standard" doors down the aisle, but incredibly expensive as they were "custom".

They were marked waaaay down at something like $30. I bought them both without any thought.

Funny part is I get them home and realized all my doors were only 30", not 32". Ended up selling one and used the other for a closet in the shop
 

NUTTSGT

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What kind of lights are you using ? I have 8' strip lights with 48" LEDS. I stubbed pvc conduit up through the ceiling and made the connection inside the fixture...on both OSB & metal ribbed siding.

Doing it over again, I would use nothing but ribbed metal on ceiling....screw it up and be done.


EDIT: clarification, "screw it up" ... screw it to the ceiling. . .
 
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cpakalolo

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I did 1/4” OSB in my warehouse, had to use pine furring strips to help keep it from sagging, not recommended. I went metal siding in my pole barn.
I have used 1/4" osb twice and never again. My father's customer wanted it and he eventually paid to have it replaced. 7/16 seems not much thicker, but osb was designed with that dimension in mind. They just don't make a good quarter inch product.
 

cpakalolo

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I am doing my garage ceiling now and I think I'm going with sheetmetal. I will put up a vapor barrier so that I don't need to caulk the seams. Paneling is too hard to do and not cheap. The rest of the shop is textured drywall, but I don't do drywall and the guy I use is building his son a house. Anyone have suggestions for a cheaper option?
 

cpakalolo

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I wouldn't do screw down on anything beyond a ag building. Either standing seam or asphalt.

I need to do the roof on my current house in a few years and have thought about standing seam, but I don't want to live here long enough to justify it
People around here do strong panel on houses regularly. They screw the flats on plywood covered with hip and valley roll with the really sticky stuff. The screws have to have "captive" washers and they will seal on the ice dam or valley roll. I have seen one that acquired a small ceiling stain after 10 or so years.
 

mike93lx

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People around here do strong panel on houses regularly. They screw the flats on plywood covered with hip and valley roll with the really sticky stuff. The screws have to have "captive" washers and they will seal on the ice dam or valley roll. I have seen one that acquired a small ceiling stain after 10 or so years.
I know people do it. I'm just saying I wouldn't
 
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msmit62

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At my last house, just like this one, when we moved in the garage was bare studs. I insulated the walls with R-13 fiberglass and the ceiling with R-19 (R-19 if I recall...it was much thicker than the R-13 I used on the walls) fiberglass. Both of them had a vapor barrier. I was happy with how well it held heat but just not happy with the warping of the lauan.
 
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msmit62

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Based on responses here it seems there is valid concern about the weight of OSB. If I went with metal panels, what do I do for a vapor barrier? Can I still install the 24" wide R-19 batts with the vapor barrier or will that trap condensation between the topside of the metal panels and the insulation's vapor barrier?
 

CraigStu

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I've got 2x4, IIRC 28' span plus the 8' cantilever and something low like 3/12 of the saltbox side. The plywood decking is starting to show some dips, but I was just in the attic last week and trusses are fine.

Probably should start planning for a new roof
I didn't mean to imply there is anything wrong w/ the OP's trusses, just that they may not be storage rated.
 

Hank11

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Based on responses here it seems there is valid concern about the weight of OSB. If I went with metal panels, what do I do for a vapor barrier? Can I still install the 24" wide R-19 batts with the vapor barrier or will that trap condensation between the topside of the metal panels and the insulation's vapor barrier?
The metal is impermeable, so no moisture will pass except for the joints. You could seal the joints, but I don’t think it’s necessary. A lot of this has to do with moisture generation in the heated and cool space. Gas heat, cooking, bathroom showers things like that make a lot of humidity inside.
 
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msmit62

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The metal is impermeable, so no moisture will pass except for the joints. You could see the joints, but I don’t think it’s necessary. A lot of this has to do with moisture generation in the heated and cool space. Gas heat, cooking, bathroom showers things like that make a lot of humidity inside.
I wasn't sure if shifts in temperature and humidity would cause condensation to form on the topside of the metal...especially if I heat the garage in the winter.
 

lund

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Comment for the OP: My CA home has a similar age 2-car garage with a roof with a similar slope and span. I did pretty much the same thing as shown in your pics putting plates around both sides of all the truss connections: both glued and screwed heavily (was a pain to install since I had to pilot hold a drive a LOT of screws through the perforated metal plates). I also filled in between the plates with expanding foam (to keep bugs and stuff out) and trimmed the edges. In my case (home made in 1968) the truss joints were connected with plates with pressed in tabs that acted like nail arrays. They loosened in time (wood shrinkage when fully dried out? Or maybe roof motion combined exasperating the impact). So I first hammered them in well before installing the plates with a heavy hammer. It was a LOT of work to install -- but it came out super well. The roof noticeably stiffened when when walking on it above after the work. In my case (earthquake country) I also added some x-bracing on the trusses at the bottom to further stiffen the structure. These would have interfered with installing a ceiling without a lot of fitting around them.

In my case I just left the ceiling open and did not put in anything. I do not see the need for a ceiling unless you want to insulate and air condition and/or heat the garage. In my case I put in wiring in metal conduit. That protected the wires well and keeps it open to be able to see if there are any low slope roof problems brewing.

All this being said, I would be very surprised if these trusses could not handle drywall or OSB as a ceiling. BUT I would probably put something on that is easy to take off and open in case of issues. I do not think anyone would go up there wiggling through the small gap trusses. Something metal with mounting strips and light insulation above (if needed/desired) might be the way to go. If you wanted you could contact an engineer to discuss and/or model it in some mechanical code they use for such things. But those options might cost a lot and the latter one would take a lot of time to do.
 
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Fav Onefour

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The metal is impermeable, so no moisture will pass except for the joints. You could seal the joints, but I don’t think it’s necessary. A lot of this has to do with moisture generation in the heated and cool space. Gas heat, cooking, bathroom showers things like that make a lot of humidity inside.
That advice is a little troublesome in cold climates.

The hot and cold contrast is too high to ignore having a real vapor barrier. Steel might work if it is sealed completely. Proper insulation in our climate involves doing gap sealing to get it right.

There are other factors as well.
This space could end up with some sort of ventilation system if it's a work space. Little gaps in the vapor barrier are highways for air movement. Air moving between two high contrasting temps adds up over time. A little condensation one time isn't a big deal. If you keep doing it, then you see problems.
Steel does a nice job of conducting temps. If you have air movement through small holes, the temp contrast spreads a bit through the steel. Hopefully there aren't any leaky seams in the steel ceiling if it's being utilized as the vapor barrier. You can take the issues from small holes and multiply the issues.

@msmit62 , Install a real vapor barrier if you go with steel. The material costs are minimal. Manage any intrusions or holes to do it right.
 
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msmit62

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That advice is a little troublesome in cold climates.

The hot and cold contrast is too high to ignore having a real vapor barrier. Steel might work if it is sealed completely. Proper insulation in our climate involves doing gap sealing to get it right.

There are other factors as well.
This space could end up with some sort of ventilation system if it's a work space. Little gaps in the vapor barrier are highways for air movement. Air moving between two high contrasting temps adds up over time. A little condensation one time isn't a big deal. If you keep doing it, then you see problems.
Steel does a nice job of conducting temps. If you have air movement through small holes, the temp contrast spreads a bit through the steel. Hopefully there aren't any leaky seams in the steel ceiling if it's being utilized as the vapor barrier. You can take the issues from small holes and multiply the issues.

@msmit62 , Install a real vapor barrier if you go with steel. The material costs are minimal. Manage any intrusions or holes to do it right.
This sounds like good advice. Is it acceptable to staple the R-19 batts with vapor barrier to the trusses and then put the metal against that?
 

nadogail

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I added OSB panels to the upper side of the cords of the trusses in my workshop which was built as a 2 car garage. I painted them before I slid them in place. They have been supporting my fat body and a bunch of stuff for probably about 30 years. I also put in a pull down set of stairs.
 

Innovate1

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That advice is a little troublesome in cold climates.

The hot and cold contrast is too high to ignore having a real vapor barrier. Steel might work if it is sealed completely. Proper insulation in our climate involves doing gap sealing to get it right.

There are other factors as well.
This space could end up with some sort of ventilation system if it's a work space. Little gaps in the vapor barrier are highways for air movement. Air moving between two high contrasting temps adds up over time. A little condensation one time isn't a big deal. If you keep doing it, then you see problems.
Steel does a nice job of conducting temps. If you have air movement through small holes, the temp contrast spreads a bit through the steel. Hopefully there aren't any leaky seams in the steel ceiling if it's being utilized as the vapor barrier. You can take the issues from small holes and multiply the issues.

@msmit62 , Install a real vapor barrier if you go with steel. The material costs are minimal. Manage any intrusions or holes to do it right.
Just my opinion but trapping moisture between the steel and vapor barrier seems like a concern. In any case and especially if you heat it you need to seal it somehow. The panel overlaps are pretty tight but the outside edge in J channel is not - need to seal that somehow - I used quite a few tubes of caulk. I had insulation blown in after the steel panels were up.
 

Firebrick43

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This sounds like good advice. Is it acceptable to staple the R-19 batts with vapor barrier to the trusses and then put the metal against that?
Its never been a problem that I have seen. In houses I usually have used blown in cellulose but in heated pole barns with liners its pretty common to use a plastic vapor barrier, put up the metal R panel liner, then roll out unfaced batts between the trusses but they are usually on 4' centers.
 
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cpakalolo

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You should still use vapor barrier under sheetmetal. In the corners, where the j-channel is the plastic should overlap and be taped to form a complete barrier. It is impossible to seal the metal in the corners as well as if there is a plastic barrier. Down South, the condensation sometimes is on the inside of the inside layer of sheathing. The house wrap on the outside takes care of this with a little help from the heat. The moisture seeks cold to condense. Think of it that way. A shop usually doesn't have the same problems a continuously occupied home would because we aren't showering, sleeping, cooking and laundering to make humidity on the inside.
 

Fav Onefour

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You should still use vapor barrier under sheetmetal. In the corners, where the j-channel is the plastic should overlap and be taped to form a complete barrier. It is impossible to seal the metal in the corners as well as if there is a plastic barrier. Down South, the condensation sometimes is on the inside of the inside layer of sheathing. The house wrap on the outside takes care of this with a little help from the heat. The moisture seeks cold to condense. Think of it that way. A shop usually doesn't have the same problems a continuously occupied home would because we aren't showering, sleeping, cooking and laundering to make humidity on the inside.
To the bold.
Up north and especially in snow country vehicles bring in a lot of moisture. In this case we're talking about a garage that I'm assuming will still see vehicles inside. My main parking garage is heated and moisture levels get extreme with a lot of snow coming inside. In those situations, it's much worse than the home.

Your advice on doing the vapor barrier along with metal is quite relevant. The irony is that our cold side of the barrier is next to insulation.
 

C-S-H

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I wasn't sure if shifts in temperature and humidity would cause condensation to form on the topside of the metal...especially if I heat the garage in the winter.
If you put a vapor barrier in the assembly, like the metal ceiling or 6 mil polyethylene, then you need to design the assembly to prevent condensation coming from either side. This usually involves adding rigid impermeable insulation board like XPS in proper thickness so that the temperature on surfaces anywhere in the assembly never drops below the dew point in any season. I am not a fan of using vapor-impermeable assemblies unless there is dirt on one side.
 

cpakalolo

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To the bold.
Up north and especially in snow country vehicles bring in a lot of moisture. In this case we're talking about a garage that I'm assuming will still see vehicles inside. My main parking garage is heated and moisture levels get extreme with a lot of snow coming inside. In those situations, it's much worse than the home.

Your advice on doing the vapor barrier along with metal is quite relevant. The irony is that our cold side of the barrier is next to insulation.
Yes, vapor barriers restrict the moisture from getting to the surface that is colder than the moist air's dew point. In the winter, even on a day with 100% humidity, there isn't much water in the air. The moisture travels through the exterior and the insulation with ease. It then condenses if the inner surface is cooler than the dew point outside. We can exclude the water with a thin barrier or with closed cell insulation. Closed cell insulation is the same as insulation with a vapor barrier on both sides. If you can insulate to R-6 or so with extruded polystyrene the rest can be fiberglass or whatever because you insured that the surface can't be cold enough to condense under most environmental conditions. If you do your job justice you will have nothing to worry about moisture wise and it sounds like you are headed right.
 

Skooterj

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I'm thinking only an actual structural engineer coming out and taking a bunch of measurements from the trusses could even get close to tell you the bottom cord dead load rating of those trusses. But 7/16 OSB only weights about 1.5 pounds per square foot. Those trusses look well built with plenty of glue(wow, so much glue). R30 fiberglass is about 0.5 pounds per square foot. So you're only looking at 2 poundsish of dead load per square foot. I can't see how those trusses wouldn't support that, but again, I am no structural engineer and only one of those could say for sure.
You are saving about a pound per square foot when you use steel panels vs OSB. Drywall weighs about the same per square foot as OSB. But I doubt those trusses care about 1 PSF vs 2 PSF.
 

racecougar

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Putting up vapor barrier when you're installing your liner panel is an extremely minor cost/labor adder. Well worth doing, IMO.

49753674_10100369123232093_2504584503347904512_o.jpg



I prefer blown fiberglass atop that, but everyone has their preferences.

44fb6b9b-5357-4b80-811b-2ad11fc20967.jpg
 
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msmit62

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I am 100% on board with the vapor barrier. I just wasn't sure if I needed to do something additional if I use R-19 batts that have the vapor barrier attached as part of the paper face. I would prefer batts over blown-in just in case I need to remove panels later for modifications.
 
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msmit62

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Sorry for my Brain Fart...R-30 sounds very familiar. That's probably what I used. That was three children and one house ago! Whatever it was it was sufficient for Michigan winter and I always tend to overdue what it is I'm doing. : )
 
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msmit62

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I'm note sure but I added about 2x the amount that was in my house attic when I moved I bought the house. Later on I reinsulated the house attic and did blown in insulation. Not one single icicle afterwards.
 

Jakeweldsalittle

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I went with luan because it was cheap and one person manageable to put up. I was concerned with drooping as well, so I used 1x3 stripping to support. No issues so far, but either you're okay with that stripping look or you're not. It's not for everyone. I didn't think the materials list through though. What I saved on sheet goods I probably spent way over on 1x3's for the ceiling and upper walls.
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