Planning New 30x32 2-story Garage/Shop/Office

[bladeofanduril]

Hey everyone. I'm at the early stages of a garage rebuild project. Replacing an existing 22x22 detached garage with a larger 30x32 2-story garage. I could really use some feedback and any advice you all might have on the "plan" so far.

I have 4 rough estimates so far on the build. 2 of them from Amish/prefab builders (Stolzfus and Sheds Unlimited) and 2 from local custom builders. The ultimate goal is a fully finished, climate controlled garage. Based on budget constraints, it is looking much more realistic that I get the structure completely unfinished inside, hire out the electrical, and then plan to do the insulating, drywall, and other finishing myself.

Design Overview:

• 30' wide, by 32' deep.
• 2 single car garage doors
• Second story to be used as an office/gym space
• First floor 12' ceiling to allow for a 2 port lift
• External stair (maybe... may consider internal, but I want first/second floor sealed off from each other)

Here is an idea of what I want the finished build to look like (note that the dimensions are flip-flopped, this is 32 wide and 30 deep, vs what I actually want which is 30 wide and 32 deep - limitation of the online 3d builder):


Here is a very early interior layout that still needs a lot of work:


I'm debating on that room in the back... the idea was that it could be a woodshop area, and enclosed to help contain dust and such. Double door that could be opened to allow moving things in and out, and to facilitate working with longer lengths of lumber that might not fit otherwise.

Foundation:
The existing garage is on a smaller piecemeal slab, so that's going and a completely new slab will be poured. Since I want a lift, and I'm fairly sure I want a 2-post lift (I do not plan to store vehicles - I want to work on them), I want to make sure that the foundation can support that. I was looking at a Bendpak but their concrete requirements seem a little crazy... I do NOT want to cut corners on safely, but I'm not sure that 6" with #6 rebar spaced 12" is really necessary... I haven't found any other lifts with requirements that stringent. Realistically, what do I need here? If the answer is "follow Bendpak's rec" that's fine.

Floor:
If I'm pouring a brand new slab, this seems the ideal time to potentially apply some kind of finish, of which there seem to be many options, from epoxy, to polish, to sealer, etc... Budget is important, and I don't have a strong opinion about aesthetics. My priority would be protecting the cement for longevity/from damage that might occur from fluid spills, etc... What would you all suggest?

Layout:
I realize this needs more thought, as I don't have much added to the floor plan above. I'm thinking automotive tools, parts wash, compressor and bench space in the rear left quarter, preserving enough space for an engine hoist if I need room to pull an engine. More shelves and storage along the right wall. If I add the woodshop room, I may keep the ceiling there to 8' to provide a bit of a storage loft over top. Any suggestions as far as layout and where to place what?

Second Story:
The main use for that space is as an office and a workout/gym area. The office doesn't present any special considerations, but the gym area does. I'm thinking an 8'x8' deadlift platform, with a power rack and probably somewhere around 800lbs of plates and maybe an exercise bike or rower. This may require a more highly engineered floor. One of the proposals I have outlines using TJI joists, but doesn't specify spacing. I would assume 20-24" on center. If I asked for 16" on center, would that provide enough strength/rigidity to support the weights and deadlifting (controlled, not planning to be dropping loaded barbells from shoulder height to the floor)? The main objective would be to not have the whole floor shake/give/bounce unnecessarily.

Electrical:
I'm planning on 100A service extended from the house. I want lots of outlets, provisions for plenty of lighting and a few 220v receptacles for the lift, welder, etc.. Around what should I expect to pay an electrician to wire out a 2 story garage?

Insulation:
I'm in Bucks Co. PA. We see summers that hit 95F and winters that can get to single digits but usually stay in 20s. What sort of R rating should I target? Is fiberglass bat the best, most economical way to go? I was looking at 'safe'n'sound' rockwool for the first floor ceiling since the engineered I beams could benefit from the added fire protection it offers. I'm planning to go with insulated garage doors and windows.

HVAC:
I want to be able to heat and cool both floors independently. From my reading, it seems like two separate mini-split systems may be a good way to go. I see that there are also window units available that do both. Any feedback here would be great. HVAC would be down the road, after the insulation and finishing gets done.

I think that covers all the areas I had questions about. Thank you for your time if you read this far, and for any feedback you might offer. I'd love to hear about anything that I should be thinking about but haven't mentioned here. This is my first time doing a project like this, and I don't know what I don't know.

Thanks!

 

[Stuart in MN]

Living in snow country, I'd want an enclosed staircase, whether it was inside the building or on the exterior. My neighbor has a similar two story garage and every time it snows I see him shoveling the steps which seems like a pain .
The woodworking room could be a little tight, depending on how much equipment (table saw, jointer, lathe, etc ) you own. Could it be a larger bump out room on the back side of the garage? I know it's easy for us to spend your money.

 

[AC-WC]

1) Foundation -follow Bend Pack guidelines! If you hire an engineer to evaluate concrete for a 2 post he will ask 'what are mfg requirements'? If you plan on heating/cooling I would insulate underneath the concrete as well. It's not that much more and you can only do it once. Absolutely work with the contractor on where NOT to put the rebar where the columns will be placed. I babysat the concrete guy when I did my retrofit for my 2 post and caught several things he did not understand/failed to listen.
2) Floor-Epoxy is great and durable but not generally DIY/budget friendly. I haven't sprung for it yet but leaning heavily to Rust Bullet paint for my existing. They are a sponsor here so look under the flooring forum. There's several coatings suppliers in the forum with lots of choices.
3) Layout-all I can recommend at this point is for a lift leave enough room on each side so you can easily remove tires/brakes (minimum 2 ft from the wheel). IF you think you may swap axles that's a lot more room you will need. If you do the air compressor remember they're noisy so maybe stash in an area you will use the least and can close a door.
4) 2nd story-you will need building plans that can support the weight or an engineer to approve them.
5) Electrical-100 amp is an excellent plan. I have 60 amp in my garage which includes 220 welder, air compressor. The balance is 120, a single 30 amp for my lift, 15amp for lights, 20amp for outlets, 15amp for door openers and another 20 amp to supply a circuit for 3 other buildings/lights. I still have room for a mini-split which is in the long plan. My outlets are every 8ft around the building. Recommend outlets by the doors, especially for a welder. It's super convenient for projects outside. To have an electrician install the panel only you're looking at $1-2K easily. You should run the individual circuits. It's super easy but time consuming/labor. I've run all my circuits after I had the electrician put the box in the garage.
6) Insulation-for houses it's R49 in your area in the ceiling and R20 in the wall. Since it is a garage you could do less but you will have to determine how much $ you're willing to lose to inefficiency. If your permit office allows it....Absolutely insulated doors and windows! Fiber bats w/vapor barrier are the easiest DIY. Foam is expensive and messy but the best. Definitely install house wrap or better.
7) HVAC-since you will have 2 floors I would stick with the mini-split plan. Mini-splits are meant to be on all the time. Not like you can turn the heat on while you're working and then off when you leave.

 

[thammel]

I think your woodshop room is going to annoy you in that it will make the garage feel too small. If you can swing it, make your garage a little bigger. The 32' depth is good but you should make the width 32 or 36 feet. Then you could easily add an inside staircase. Thinking some more about your woodshop, the 10x 14 you show is a decent size. If it were me, I'd want this as an additional room off the back or side just to keep the garage floor area. Another option is to put this on the second floor. And I would definitely go with 16" spacing on the floor joists for the second floor.

Ther 12' ceilings should be just a little higher for a 2 post lift. Do some research on lift heights and you'll see that many of them need just a few inches over 12'.

Insulation: rockwool is best for fire resistance and sound abatement. If you can swing it go that way. As you say, you can do the insulating. You know you'll get a top notch job that way. If you can swing for 2x6 exterior framing, you can get r-19 or slightly more in the walls.

Garage doors: go with 10' wide by 8' high. You will be happy with this size.

2 separate mini splits make a lot of sense. I also went that way. Having the 2nd floor isolated also makes sense.

Have the electrician do the minimal. Then you can expand on that. I did it that way. I can't imagine paying an electrician to do all I did!!

Are you really gonna do the drywall? I paid 2 guys to do that!! But I did the painting and all interior finishing including trim and door hanging.

I guess no water to the garage since it's detached. But if you swing that, you'll love it. Put in a full bathroom with shower and a utility sink outside the bathroom.

If you are planning a decent air compressor, think about a room for it to keep noise down.

Floor treatment: I did armorpoxy epoxy myself and it's great! It's held up very well!

Exciting stuff!!

 

[Overboost44]

That is a $100k+ garage, I would guess. I was going to have Shed's Unltd. do mine but when I wanted it attached, they wouldn't do it.
Based on my project that I am awaiting permits for,
I plan to put radiant tubes in the floor just in case ($500).

Insulate under the slab ($2500)
Planning Rockwool R23 in 2x6 walls, but may go with fiberglass die to the cost difference.

14' ceiling over the lift area and 9' over the other bay due to the upstairs room. With a 12x12 pitch at 26' deep that will leave me 8' ceiling on the 2nd floor and 7' in the storage area over the lift.

One mini-split with 3 zones but I have thought of the benefits of having two separate units.

Not a fan of the BendPak specs either and will go with a different lift just because of that. I will have a 5" pad with #4 rebar spaced 12" apart.

Can't add anything about the floor coating or the electrical but will be watching with interest.

 

[CraigStu]

I was going to say skip that wood room on the first floor but then you mention all that exercise equipment on the 2nd floor. So that room could support the 2nd story floor where the extra weight is. Still I'd consider skipping it. When I use my radial arm saw, I wheel it out the garage door. Grab a door remote from one of the cars and keep it in a shirt pocket. Door goes down when the saw runs. The band saws and disc/belt sander get the shop vac hose attached. I am not a fan of the dormer roof. I'd rather use longer trusses to create a 2-3ft overhang above the garage doors which would bring additional 2nd story ceiling height. Re; floor. there is a way to finish the concrete so it has a perfectly smooth finish. If they do that, rolling some sealer on it is a relatively inexpensive way to keep it looking OK.

 

[puttinonthekritz]

I

I think your woodshop room is going to annoy you in that it will make the garage feel too small. If you can swing it, make your garage a little bigger. The 32' depth is good but you should make the width 32 or 36 feet. Then you could easily add an inside staircase. Thinking some more about your woodshop, the 10x 14 you show is a decent size. If it were me, I'd want this as an additional room off the back or side just to keep the garage floor area. Another option is to put this on the second floor. And I would definitely go with 16" spacing on the floor joists for the second floor.

Ther 12' ceilings should be just a little higher for a 2 post lift. Do some research on lift heights and you'll see that many of them need just a few inches over 12'.
e
Insulation: rockwool is best for fire resistance and sound abatement. If you can swing it go that way. As you say, you can do the insulating. You know you'll get a top notch job that way. If you can swing for 2x6 exterior framing, you can get r-19 or slightly more in the walls.

Garage doors: go with 10' wide by 8' high. You will be happy with this size.

2 separate mini splits make a lot of sense. I also went that way. Having the 2nd floor isolated also makes sense.

Have the electrician do the minimal. Then you can expand on that. I did it that way. I can't imagine paying an electrician to do all I did!!

Are you really gonna do the drywall? I paid 2 guys to do that!! But I did the painting and all interior finishing including trim and door hanging.

I guess no water to the garage since it's detached. But if you swing that, you'll love it. Put in a full bathroom with shower and a utility sink outside the bathroom.

If you are planning a decent air compressor, think about a room for it to keep noise down.

Floor treatment: I did armorpoxy epoxy myself and it's great! It's held up very well!

Exciting stuff!!

100% agree with thammel on these aspects:

-16'oc floor joist if you're making a gym or woodshop upstairs. Furthermore, either 1 1/8" Advantech subfloor or better yet, two, apposing layers, of 3/4" Advantech subfloor with glue for less flex/bounce.
-10ft wide garage doors all day.
-Rockwool. Rockwool. Rockwool. Everywhere.

 

[Craig Balzer]

First thing I noticed was the 3D rendering shows a man-door beside the 2x garage doors.
That man-door does not appear on the dimensional drawing.
Ooops. You also need to account for windows in the dimensional drawing.

I am not an engineer but I think putting a staircase on a wall (interior or exterior) may require additional structure / strength of that wall.

 

[carlaisle]

I don't know what kind of woodwork you are contemplating, but I would 100% skip the separate enclosed space. Those walls will get in the way of everything. Allocate some dineros to the dust collection budget and you'll be fine with a good dust collection system and infinitely happier with the wide open space.

Get the engineer's thoughts on the second floor gym. Zero chance I would do 24" spacing on that floor. The joist type and spacing are only 2/3 or the required detail - still need to know the depth. Assuming you want the first floor to be clear span, trusses on 16" of even 12" centers with either 1-1/8" single layer or a dual layer 3/4" would be my choice. That's not for structural functionality so much as bounce control.

Check the ceiling height requirements for your lift and planned vehicles. Many require slightly more than 12'. You might squeek by with 12' lumber + the sill plate and double top plate. If that doesn't get you quite high enough, a short stem wall would do the trick. You really don't want any wood that close to the ground anyway.

An engineer could easily review Bendpak's slab requirements if they would provide the necessary detail on the lift itself (which they likely won't) but it would be faster and more cost effective to just source a different lift.

The only thing you might spill on your new concrete floor that could physically damange it is acid. Eveything else can stain it, but won't otherwise do any harm. You'll need to decide on your priority/budget/use case. i.e. you don't want an epoxy floor if you're going to weld on it; if you're going to do epoxy, it should be done before you spill anything on the floor and well after the concrete has fully cured, etc.

The external stairs will save a good bit of space, but do consider your prevailing weather conditions. If you would need to shovel or deice those twice/week all winter that might get old fast.

A roof extension/eave/balcony that sticks out over the garage entrance 4' or so might be a nice addition. I would definitely do wider garage doors. 10' minimum or a single wider door.

Will the first floor and second floor be used simultaneously? If not, putting the compressor upstairs in a separate closet to keep the noise out of the workspace below may make sense.

Depending on what type of work and how much of it you plan to do buliding a bridge crane into one of your bays could be a delightful luxury.

If the Rockwool is providing any fire protection for your floor structure you've already lost the battle. 5/8" X sheetrock will take care of that. Rockwool, denim, and cellulose all provide superior sound dampening performance over fiberglass...at a superior price. Their thermal efficacy is not that different. Look at the budget and your needs/wants and choose accordingly. You'll be working with 2x6 walls at your ceiling height, so you'll have around R19 in the walls.

The dual mini-split is a sound plan. You could do two completely separate systems or a single system with multiple heads. Since you're planning to add it later, you can postpone the decision to a later time. Do consider where the indoor units will be placed and how you'll route the lines to/from them.

Consider what interior wall surface you'll use. 3/4" plywood walls aren't nearly as attractive as drywall, but you can mount anything of basically any weight pretty much anywhere. Another decision that can likely be postponed to a later time.

A bathroom in the garage is a luxury, but a sink is basically a necessity.

 

[bladeofanduril]

Thank you all for the great feedback!! I have a lot of things to think about.

I was not planning to run any water to the garage. Adding water/sewer puts it in a completely different code/zoning category. A bathroom or sink would be nice, but I don't know that I want the additional headache and cost.

The wood shop room... I think I'll likely axe it. It was an idea I put on the floor plan, but I tend to agree that I'd probably prefer the open space more. If a good dust collector will prevent everything in the garage from getting coated in sawdust, that is all I'm really trying to avoid.

I don't have a ton of flexibility on the footprint. There is a very large tree to the left of the existing garage that isn't going anywhere and my wife has pretty strong opinions about extending any further than I already am into the backyard. So adding another room to the rear isn't an option.

The shed dormers are for aesthetic consistency with the house, which also has them. Stoltzfus said I'd have a little over 8' at the walls, and 10' in the center with them.

Thank you for the suggestions for 10x8 garage doors, insulating under the slab, and the warning about the 12' ceiling height. I know the Bendpak I was looking at will fit under a 12' ceiling, but I'll have to look into some other options as well, since the concrete requirements of the Bendpak may make it cost prohibitive. I asked Stoltzfus to provide an updated proposal with all of those changes. I'll see what the damage looks like when they get back to me. I did send an inquiry to Bendpak asking for clarification on the concrete specs, as well as one to Challenger for their requirements.

Air compressor.. I have a very small one currently. I would like a larger one in the new garage but I don't know how much I'd realistically use it. With battery powered tools taking the place of may air tools I can only think of a few use cases - maybe some light painting or powder coating work - possibly a DA sander. I don't know that it would be running enough to really need to be in its own space.

First thing I noticed was the 3D rendering shows a man-door beside the 2x garage doors.
That man-door does not appear on the dimensional drawing.
Ooops. You also need to account for windows in the dimensional drawing.

I am not an engineer but I think putting a staircase on a wall (interior or exterior) may require additional structure / strength of that wall.

Ah yes, you noticed. That man-door isn't going to fit there, because that rendering has the building dimensions flipped. So the man-door would be where it is shown on the floor plan (which still needs a lot of work, admittedly), ideally sharing a landing with the stairs to second floor.

Welding is definitely something that will be happening in the space from time to time, so sounds like epoxy floor is out. The current automotive project involves replacing floor pans, and potentially lifting the body off the frame to replace body mounts. Transmission swap also on the menu. A paint on solution like the Rust Bullet coating is appealing.

Thanks for the feedback on the second floor. 16" OC sounds like the way to go, and I'll ask about the double layer of 3/4 subflooring.

 

[JohnX14]

I


100% agree with thammel on these aspects:

I agree, that room turns a nice big garage into a small feeling garage.. Keep it open.

 

[BobnCO]

Welding is definitely something that will be happening in the space from time to time, so sounds like epoxy floor is out. The current automotive project involves replacing floor pans, and potentially lifting the body off the frame to replace body mounts. Transmission swap also on the menu. A paint on solution like the Rust Bullet coating is appealing.

Also look at some of the clear sealer products, the look really nice on new concrete, I have done them in commercial/industrial projects in my career. Easy to sweep and clean, probably looks better than a painter finish over time. I like epoxy finishes on floors too, but I bought a large used shop and epoxy was going to be allot.. and I to have major bodywork/welding to do and chose not too. Ran out of money and time for clear as well (2,400sf) but happy with nothing for now and may seal/clear later in sections..

 

[CraigStu]

I have had a few instances in the winter where I did more wood sawing than ideal inside. What I did was live w/ some extra dust until there was a day that was maybe only a little warmer but very sunny. Opened the doors, put on a mask, and used a leaf blower to get rid of the dust.

 

[LXCam]

You made the comment that accommodating bendpac’s foundation requirements might make the slab cost prohibitive. You do understand you only need to pour a thickened area and not the entire slab right?

 

[bladeofanduril]

You made the comment that accommodating bendpac’s foundation requirements might make the slab cost prohibitive. You do understand you only need to pour a thickened area and not the entire slab right?

I emailed Bendpak for clarification on this, because the way I read their concrete spec document, it lays out 2 different scenarios.

1. Pre-existing slab requirements
2. "New slab" requirements - except by "new slab" they are referring to a section cut out of an existing slab and enforced/poured specifically for a lift installation.

My current assumption is that I should follow the pre-existing slab requirement, but since I will be pouring an entirely new slab, I don't know that my situation fits either of the two they address in the doc. Maybe I'm overthinking it.

 

[Overboost44]

I emailed Bendpak for clarification on this, because the way I read their concrete spec document, it lays out 2 different scenarios.

1. Pre-existing slab requirements
2. "New slab" requirements - except by "new slab" they are referring to a section cut out of an existing slab and enforced/poured specifically for a lift installation.

My current assumption is that I should follow the pre-existing slab requirement, but since I will be pouring an entirely new slab, I don't know that my situation fits either of the two they address in the doc. Maybe I'm overthinking it.

I went through the same thing with Bendpak but did not email them. Will be interested in what you learn. I will tell you that, yes, you will fall under existing slab requirements. Instead of 4.25", I am going with 5" because according to what I have read on here, you should not drill all the way through the concrete to install the fasteners.

https://www.bendpak.com/media/wysiwyg/downloads/Concrete-Slab-Footer-Recommendations-BendPak-2025.pdf

 

[manwithtools]

1. Pre-existing slab requirements
2. "New slab" requirements - except by "new slab" they are referring to a section cut out of an existing slab and enforced/poured specifically for a lift installation.

I haven't read the Bendpak requirements lately, but IIRC, it seems those two items often get confused. I think the existing slab requirements is what you want to follow for a new slab pour. The "New slab" is for old floors that have a new section installed for the lift. Very poorly worded by my recollection.

 

[bladeofanduril]

I went through the same thing with Bendpak but did not email them. Will be interested in what you learn. I will tell you that, yes, you will fall under existing slab requirements. Instead of 4.25", I am going with 5" because according to what I have read on here, you should not drill all the way through the concrete to install the fasteners.

https://www.bendpak.com/media/wysiwyg/downloads/Concrete-Slab-Footer-Recommendations-BendPak-2025.pdf

Yes, I think that is the case as well. Interestingly, I was reading documentation for another lift, (Forward maybe?.. I've been looking at a lot of different ones) and they stated that it was preferred to drill all the way through. I guess each manufacturer has their own rules.

 

[bladeofanduril]

Update: Bendpak replied and confirmed that the "pre-existing slab" requirements apply to a new slab. So, minimum 4.25" thick, 3000psi, with #6 rebar spaced 12".