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BlakeTheCarGuy

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Well, I went and checked out the Craftsman ratchets as my nearest Lowes on Monday and it was slim pickens (not the actor). I wish I would have gotten a picture but had three grandkids with me...and the four year old has to touch everything. It was pretty bare with a couple of the Overdrive 180T ratchets but not much else. The regular ones they did have (1/4") were 72T. I checked out another Lowes after dropping my mom off for her cancer infusion (doing well going on three years since the diagnosis) and while they had more of them, they were all 72T. I'm thinking (hoping) the first store will replenish their stock with newer 90T ratchets. I was thinking about getting 180T ones but don't really like the smoke chrome finish.
Have you checked out the Gunmetal Chrome ones? I’ve got a couple of those that Craftsman gave me for warranty. They are really nice.
 
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lund

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Nov 2, 2019
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I somewhat impulse bought this vice grip since I missed the boat on Malco pliers on Amazon. I'm assuming these are/were made by malco. IMG_20260609_153219314.jpgIMG_20260609_153202338_HDR.jpgIMG_20260609_153154089.jpg

I read some time back here that Snap-On purchased the tooling from Malco when they went under. So they are likley making more or less the same thing as the former Eagle Grips with some degree of tweaking. This probably makes sense. Malco was not able to sell for a modest but higher price to keep going since our consumers so strongly go for the lowest price with little regard to quality. But Snap On can charge much more with their brand and service, so it probably will work out for them at more modest volumes that the former Peterson manufactured Vice Grip market from years ago.

It is a shame that our consumers appear unwilling to pay even a modest amount more for a better product. Even with copious complaints on the newer locking pliers of most Asian brands being relative junk and not lasting. I took the failure of Malco as an ominious sign that manufacturing for relatively low or modest value products can come back to the USA only when both materials and energy are less in the USA than other locations and the process is almost fully automated. If those criteria are met, businesses should realize they can make more due to less shipping and distribution cost while better ensuring their future by not being reliant on a potential competitor who will make the same rebranded for whoever.
 

Ohio Andy

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It is a shame that our consumers appear unwilling to pay even a modest amount more for a better product.
I would guess it's a combination of two things.

First, your average consumer has absolutely no idea. I mean, after all, a screwdriver is a screwdriver is a screwdriver right? Both screwdrivers I've used even really crappy ones have at least kind of worked. They may destroy your screws and they may work poorly, but I have a neighbor who doesn't even own a screwdriver.

Second, as long as it's okay, most are good enough. If I say this one's the best and it'll hold up the best under the worst possible conditions, well, a lot of people don't use those worst possible conditions, and when they do, look back at my first point. People just assume they all work the same.
 

lund

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I would guess it's a combination of two things.

First, your average consumer has absolutely no idea. I mean, after all, a screwdriver is a screwdriver is a screwdriver right? Both screwdrivers I've used even really crappy ones have at least kind of worked. They may destroy your screws and they may work poorly, but I have a neighbor who doesn't even own a screwdriver.

Second, as long as it's okay, most are good enough. If I say this one's the best and it'll hold up the best under the worst possible conditions, well, a lot of people don't use those worst possible conditions, and when they do, look back at my first point. People just assume they all work the same.

I agree. But I was hopeful with Malco that the significant community of trades people would be more interested in buying a much better tool for a modest amount more $ without needing to rebuy and dispose of crappy versions so much and that would be enough of a market to sustain. But that appears not to be the case. A lot of homeowners in the larger consumer market probably do not see much difference. To many a locking plier is a locking plier that they might use a few times in their life so they buy the cheapest possible with little thought on supporting manufacturing infrastructure. Combined with this Taiwan production lines have genuinely gotten much better and the quality gap between former reasonable quality usa lines and Taiwan tools is not so much or even non-existent or reversed. In the USA companies show no loyalty to workers and vice-versa while CEO and upper management salaries for those outsourcing have become extreme while adjusted salaries + benefits for workers remain flat or declining. This breeds an environment for no loyalty and no sense of community support. All that brings us to where we are today with USA productions for many relatively basic products being a shell of their former self. It is a shame, but I suspect it will now be a long time if ever before that changes.

It is hard to imagine newer domestic companies forming that really fully make their own products vs assembly/labeling/packaging components largely made abroad here. We would need a cultural change for that to happen that would take decades of effort to seed. We have evolved into more of a service economy and that is now also going to evolve with AI in ways that are difficult to predict at present.
 

Skyman

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I bought a couple of the Malcos when they were still available. The quality is evident to those who use tools often and know quality when they see it. Compared to all other locking pliers I've ever seen, and compared to the other dozen or so I own, they are like jewelry. I have mostly Petersen examples, which are functionally very good. The Malcos are superb.

Regrettably, the DIY slice of the population here in the USA appears to be growing thinner with each passing year. It seems as though most don't own or use tools themselves, instead reaching for the credit card or checkbook whenever something needs to be done. That leaves domestic tool buying mostly to tradespeople. And, many of them seem to understand everything that's been mentioned above by lund and Ohio Andy. Adequate quality is readily available from Taiwan, Japan, etc. Premium tools are nice, but they don't necessarily pass the cost/benefit calculus for many of those who use tools.
 

Ohio Andy

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I bought a couple of the Malcos when they were still available. The quality is evident to those who use tools often and know quality when they see it. Compared to all other locking pliers I've ever seen, and compared to the other dozen or so I own, they are like jewelry. I have mostly Petersen examples, which are functionally very good. The Malcos are superb.

Regrettably, the DIY slice of the population here in the USA appears to be growing thinner with each passing year. It seems as though most don't own or use tools themselves, instead reaching for the credit card or checkbook whenever something needs to be done. That leaves domestic tool buying mostly to tradespeople. And, many of them seem to understand everything that's been mentioned above by lund and Ohio Andy. Adequate quality is readily available from Taiwan, Japan, etc. Premium tools are nice, but they don't necessarily pass the cost/benefit calculus for many of those who use tools..
And it feels like it keeps getting more difficult to DIY stuff, especially when you are not a mechanic by trade.

Last time I replaced a radiator I jumped into the engine bay of the 1972 C Body Station Wagon and it was mostly easy. These days, I may need to remove the bumper to change a headlight much less a radiator. And that bumper is probably wrapped in some pretty "plastic" with concealed fasteners. I think my nephew said he paid over $1000 to replace a headlamp in a GM Sedan. I managed to change a lamp assembly once without removing the bumper (early 90's) and it took me some hours to do it alone while reaching into areas with zero visibility. Second one would have taken less time, but it was annoying.

Last time a nice set of locking pliers saved my ****, however, it was plumbing and nothing else was holding things. Love my Malcos.
 

four.cycle

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I agree. But I was hopeful with Malco that the significant community of trades people would be more interested in buying a much better tool for a modest amount more $ without needing to rebuy and dispose of crappy versions so much and that would be enough of a market to sustain.
(emphasis added)

I am sure the people sitting around the boardroom at Malco were hopeful as well when they decided to invest their precious resources and time improving the original Petersen "Vise Grip" and bringing a better product to market.
Those of us who own a pair or two of the Malco "Eagle Grips" love them. They are far and away a superior tool, even to the original Petersen.

Where Malco miscalculated was with that portion of their target market that used that particular device in ways for which it was never intended. They beat on them with hammers. They get welding slag all over them. They burn the tips of the jaws with cutting torches.
In short, they make short work of any type of "locking plier".
They are the welders, the fabricators, the guys who make stuff out of steel in an arena where "hand tool" is just a device used to accomplish a given task, and if it suffers in the process, so be it.

The improvement in the quality of the product, however great it may have been, simply did not justify the price point for that user segment - and they lost that portion of their potential market.

As to the "average consumer" - refer to Andy's post above - they simply don't know the difference. Any ol' pliers will do.
 
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YesIHaveAHammer

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Jun 1, 2025
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800
Sandvik Belzer No. 1952 46mm (1-13/16")
Stumbled upon this cheap on eBay. It's for M30 bolts/nuts. 520mm (20") long, 1.75kg (4lb). From what I can find, this size and above have this plain style, while smaller ones have the classic Belzer style. Great value by weight, not so much by usefulness to me - but I'll try and make something. Seems to me it'd have been used for things needing thick bolts bolts for strength but with relatively low torque.
1 - Copy.jpg
 
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BlakeTheCarGuy

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I agree. But I was hopeful with Malco that the significant community of trades people would be more interested in buying a much better tool for a modest amount more $ without needing to rebuy and dispose of crappy versions so much and that would be enough of a market to sustain. But that appears not to be the case.
All my coworkers thought I was crazy when I bought the Snap-on ones when Malco was still in business and made them for Snap-on for a bit. They are like why would you pay high dollar for a set of vise grips when you can go to Harbor Freight and get the Bremen for way less. Then four.cycle sent me some Malco ones as part of a Christmas gift one year and I took those to show everyone so they could see what they looked and felt like in person and they laughed again and they are like well we don’t do any research on tools we just buy brands we know because once we clock out at work we don’t want to think of tools or cars until we clock in again. If they break we just get them warrantied and don’t think anything of it till it breaks again. And I found that same response across all the technicians I know except one who is enthusiastic about tools like I am. I found that pretty disappointing.

So it’s not just the DIY crowd that wasn’t buying them. The only other person that I know that personally owns a set of the Malco ones is a HVAC guy I know and that’s because Malco is a well known name in that field but he said he’s also the same way he just buys what ever he’s familiar and it works and thinks nothing of it. I guess not everyone is as into tools as we are here at Garage Journal.
 

BlakeTheCarGuy

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Warranty replacement Craftsman screwdriver just got here fresh off the UPS truck. I warrantied out one of the old clear handle ones. I threw it in my box of broken tools. How I got this type is I warrantied a socket at the same time which I’m still waiting on but they actually didn’t make my exact socket anymore so the lady was like how about I’ll send you our catalog page for every socket available in that size and you can pick one and then I’ll send you our whole catalog of screwdrivers and you can pick whatever screwdriver you want doesn’t have to be flat it can Philips or Torx or flat or whatever you want since we don’t have your exact socket anymore. So I picked this one from the catalog. I thought that was pretty cool of them to do that. Honestly I’m not too big of a fan of this handle but at least it was free and I picked it just to try out honestly. IMG_5306.jpegIMG_5220.jpeg
 

d.mcfarland

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he just buys what ever he’s familiar and it works and thinks nothing of it. I guess not everyone is as into tools as we are here at Garage Journal.

Well, to be fair, if whatever he has seemingly bought without thinking about it works, maybe that's a sentiment across the overall workforce that has some merit.

In your example, if the Breman (or Milwaukee since they are practically the same) work for all but the 1%, are they really that bad? I feel like the obvious answer is no.

Good enough tools are actually very easily accessible today compared to around 20 years ago. Whatever Sears sold was about the best readily available option.
 

BlakeTheCarGuy

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Well, to be fair, if whatever he has seemingly bought without thinking about it works, maybe that's a sentiment across the overall workforce that has some merit.

In your example, if the Breman (or Milwaukee since they are practically the same) work for all but the 1%, are they really that bad? I feel like the obvious answer is no.

Good enough tools are actually very easily accessible today compared to around 20 years ago. Whatever Sears sold was about the best readily available option.
I agree completely. And yes that’s definitely true about the availability of good tools. It’s just some of these brands are really good like Malco and they are lesser known and just ultimately fail because of lack of sales which is sad. That said I also really miss Craftsman USA stuff.
 

Squankum

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First, your average consumer has absolutely no idea. I mean, after all, a screwdriver is a screwdriver is a screwdriver right? Both screwdrivers I've used even really crappy ones have at least kind of worked. They may destroy your screws and they may work poorly,
And then they think life just ***** or that they're not handy and shouldn't fix or build things. You don't know about better screwdrivers until you use some!

Knew a couple in my hometown that were devoted to a certain bumbling automobile manufacturer, and had problems galore, and they just assumed life sucked that way. They eventually tried another brand with a notable reputation for quality and that's when the light bulb started to glow over their heads that their last cars really were unconscionable ****.
 
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Squankum

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dvik Belzer No. 1952 46mm (1-13/16")
Stumbled upon this cheap on eBay. It's for M30 bolts/nuts. 520mm (20") long, 1.75kg (4lb). From what I can find, this size and above have this plain style, while smaller ones have the classic Belzer style.

Never heard of a Belzer wrench! Here in the US we had our own Belzer with his own unique style, but we lost him two years ago.

1781163221406.png
 

lund

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Michigan
(emphasis added)

I am sure the people sitting around the boardroom at Malco were hopeful as well when they decided to invest their precious resources and time improving the original Petersen "Vise Grip" and bringing a better product to market.
Those of us who own a pair or two of the Malco "Eagle Grips" love them. They are far and away a superior tool, even to the original Petersen.

Where Malco miscalculated was with that portion of their target market that used that particular device in ways for which it was never intended. They beat on them with hammers. They get welding slag all over them. They burn the tips of the jaws with cutting torches.
In short, they make short work of any type of "locking plier".
They are the welders, the fabricators, the guys who make stuff out of steel in an arena where "hand tool" is just a device used to accomplish a given task, and if it suffers in the process, so be it.

The improvement in the quality of the product, however great it may have been, simply did not justify the price point for that user segment - and they lost that portion of their potential market.

As to the "average consumer" - refer to Andy's post above - they simply don't know the difference. Any ol' pliers will do.

I agree with what you are saying. Blake added some in a later post explaining that even trades people making regular use of locking pliers did not see the reason to spend more so it was too rare that anyone paid the extra premium to buy the Malco Eagle Grips.

Maybe it could have worked if they tried to keep the price super low while keeping robust performance with less attention to finish etc. In other words a more close analog to the old Peterson Vice Grips that dominated the market. A solid product for cheap. BUT that would have required a high degree of automation with the cost for better materials still factored in. I think they bought the old Peterson tooling to build on. So that probably was not possible to automate to the degree needed. Stanley when they tried to bring back domestic Craftsman tried this approach and it failed miserably since their vision of automation was not panning out and the squandered a lot of time and money. But what can be automated and not changes in time and perhaps things are different enough now for that approach to work so they can cash in on lower distribution cost with domestic production.
 

Steel_Rain

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Craftsman got me with the free V20 battery/charger deal this week, and I used the coupon to pickup the screwdriver. I also picked up the angle grinder on sale this week for $40 bucks:

1781186082490.png
1781186032377.png
1781186157940.png

As a general tool snob and self-proclaimed cheap son of a *****, I find these tools pretty good. I don't hate them and have about $80 bucks invested in both of these. I call that a win with a 3-year warranty and the ability to go to Lowes with any issues if they come up.

1781186494146.png

I love how much light it throws and how crisp the light is (good CRI):

1781186558567.png
 

lund

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Michigan
Well, to be fair, if whatever he has seemingly bought without thinking about it works, maybe that's a sentiment across the overall workforce that has some merit.

In your example, if the Breman (or Milwaukee since they are practically the same) work for all but the 1%, are they really that bad? I feel like the obvious answer is no.

Good enough tools are actually very easily accessible today compared to around 20 years ago. Whatever Sears sold was about the best readily available option.


Well. It depends what you are doing.

I use needle nose vice grips a lot in broken and damaged bolt extractions, pulling hardened wires (springs ... like on brake drums), clamping, etc. Bremen is not bad for the $. BUT the jaws are sub-standard in alignment and material quality/hardening. This is especially true with needle nose variants that I use a lot. So the Bremen's get damaged quickly and do not last. My old Peterson needle nose locking pliers lasted about 5x as long as contemporary Bremen's with more abuse (I was younger and more likely to be rough on tools) and performed better. With that lifetime difference factored in, I doubt Bremen is a good relative value over classic Peterson's with inflated cost to present -- even though Bremen is at the incredibly low price point. Bremen is also finished very well at a low cost point. So it looks good if lightly used. Superficially Bremen and some other Asian productions look very good finish wise and I can see why consumers or tradesmen with applications like welding clamps (where anything will get messed up quickly) would choose Bremen (or whatever is cheapest) over a modern version of Peterson. Malco was over finished (maybe too much for heavy use tools) and that likely drove up the price even more helping seal their doom. It seems the market of those willing to pay more for higher performing tools is pretty limited even in a country with 300M + people.
 
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Skyman

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(emphasis added)

I am sure the people sitting around the boardroom at Malco were hopeful as well when they decided to invest their precious resources and time improving the original Petersen "Vise Grip" and bringing a better product to market.
Those of us who own a pair or two of the Malco "Eagle Grips" love them. They are far and away a superior tool, even to the original Petersen.

Where Malco miscalculated was with that portion of their target market that used that particular device in ways for which it was never intended. They beat on them with hammers. They get welding slag all over them. They burn the tips of the jaws with cutting torches.
In short, they make short work of any type of "locking plier".
They are the welders, the fabricators, the guys who make stuff out of steel in an arena where "hand tool" is just a device used to accomplish a given task, and if it suffers in the process, so be it.

The improvement in the quality of the product, however great it may have been, simply did not justify the price point for that user segment - and they lost that portion of their potential market.

As to the "average consumer" - refer to Andy's post above - they simply don't know the difference. Any ol' pliers will do.

This is another excellent point. ^^^

I think it is especially true of locking pliers. I've used them in plenty of ways that might be considered by some as having been "abuse." But, it got the job done, the tools continue to function normally, and they now look as though somebody has actually used them.

I'll confess that the Eagle Grips I own are so pretty that I'm reluctant to put them to heavy use. I would if I didn't already own numerous examples by Petersen, Irwin, and a few cheapie imports. But, these things are just so damned pretty...

I'll further confess that I've been a life-long tool junkie, and I bought the Malcos just because they are so damned pretty, and not because I needed them. I no longer get paid for working with my tools, and I wouldn't have bought these Malcos if I were still using them to earn a living. That money would instead have gone into the 401k.
 

Jgaz

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I'll further confess that I've been a life-long tool junkie, and I bought the Malcos just because they are so damned pretty, and not because I needed them. I no longer get paid for working with my tools, and I wouldn't have bought these Malcos if I were still using them to earn a living
I couldn’t agree more.
 

Etchase

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Hawaii
If only there was a thread discussing eagle grips.

Some tiny springs from Temu for various mechanism repairs.

IMG_2692.jpeg

And for the first time in a long time a brand new corded drill. $32. Found in the back of my electrical supply, and discounted. I think it was manufactured in 2021. Excess and obsolete inventory sure seems endemic in the tool industry. Makita 6408.

IMG_2693.jpeg
 

Beerhippie

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Far NE Oregon
IMG_2693.jpeg
We have a similar, but older model here at the brewery. It's been knocking around the shop for thirty years and I have no idea when it was new. It's mixed hundreds of gallons of paint and dozens of buckets of grout and is still going strong on its original bearings and brushes.

Might even have drilled/bored a few holes, too.
 
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BlakeTheCarGuy

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^ I've given away two or three pairs to other members here.
I've never used mine. They're too pretty to get them all banged up.
SMH
I’ll be honest I haven’t used the ones you sent me lol. I keep them shiny because I like them a lot. And also I had issues with chrome peeling on the Malco/Snap-on ones when they first came out and had to get like 3 sets warrantied so I try to only grab them if absolutely needed since I know I can’t get an exact pair anymore.
 

Squankum

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I'll confess that the Eagle Grips I own are so pretty that I'm reluctant to put them to heavy use. I would if I didn't already own numerous examples by Petersen, Irwin, and a few cheapie imports. But, these things are just so damned pretty...

I'll further confess that I've been a life-long tool junkie, and I bought the Malcos just because they are so damned pretty, and not because I needed them. I no longer get paid for working with my tools, and I wouldn't have bought these Malcos if I were still using them to earn a living.

1) Ditto
2) Well, I also bought mine to see what the fuss was about and the overall heft was immediately noticeable. Especially in the wake of my disappointingly non-hefty $24 Knipex locking pliers I had bought (actually made by Bollman in Germany)

3) I never paid more than mid-$30's for mine so I have no regrets. Today's current pricing mania, never ever would I buy them!
 

shoggoth80

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Feb 28, 2013
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Seattle
Another light. Though not bought with the idea of work in mind. Partly because I wanted something with some oomph, and because I've read a lot about price to performance with the brand. Solid. Got it in a more neutral LED color. Quite pleased with it. Got a headlamp from the same company coming. Like I've said, been on a lighting kick 🤣

IMG_20260611_090957.jpg
 

PugetDude

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FBBC813D-5D2B-4467-AC1C-9DB7ADAE2E40.jpeg
So far I happy with this assorted grit set I got the other day off Amazon. Already added in a second set to my cart for later.
I had good luck with those Shall brand flap discs when they were available on Amazon. Tried to reorder, but out of stock. Tried a couple of other brands, then @LXCam hooked me up with some Walter discs...
 

zimman

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Mark Twain National Forest
Craftsman got me with the free V20 battery/charger deal this week, and I used the coupon to pickup the screwdriver. I also picked up the angle grinder on sale this week for $40 bucks:

1781186082490.png
1781186032377.png
1781186157940.png

As a general tool snob and self-proclaimed cheap son of a *****, I find these tools pretty good. I don't hate them and have about $80 bucks invested in both of these. I call that a win with a 3-year warranty and the ability to go to Lowes with any issues if they come up.

1781186494146.png

I love how much light it throws and how crisp the light is (good CRI):

1781186558567.png
Does it say how many lumens it is?
Thanks
Zim
 

Steel_Rain

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Apr 23, 2024
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Does it say how many lumens it is?
Thanks
Zim

Good question. Craftsman doesn't say officially:


That said, it's a "tri-beam" (3 bright white LED's) and it's plenty bright with very little dim spots. If you own anything else to compare it to, I'd said it's as good or better then any of my modern (purchased 2024-forward) Milwaukee M12 stuff.
 

zimman

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Good question. Craftsman doesn't say officially:


That said, it's a "tri-beam" (3 bright white LED's) and it's plenty bright with very little dim spots. If you own anything else to compare it to, I'd said it's as good or better then any of my modern (purchased 2024-forward) Milwaukee M12 stuff.
LOL, I was asking about the underhood light. Sorry.
Zim
 

YesIHaveAHammer

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Jun 1, 2025
Messages
800
Stabila Type 96-2 levels, 61cm (24") & 122cm (48")
New lengths that'll come in handy. They'll get some outdoor use so I got milled surface rather than painted, but it's plenty smooth enough for indoor stuff too. Claimed accuracy is 0.5mm (1/64th") per meter (yard), which seems ambitious given it relies on you eyballing the bubble between the lines. The bubble is sized not to outgrow the lines as it expands in cold temperatures as low as -20 degrees C (-4 F), so it's a little more undersized than I'd like at room temperature - seems accommodating such an extreme results a sub-optimal tradeoff for the vast majority of users.
1b - Copy.jpg

Hultafors V 20 Professional Try Square 200mm (8")
Good size for a lot of things for me. Well made. Now discontinued and replaced with a "Square Lightweight" model and a "Square Pro" brother which just has additional holes and markings.
3 - Copy.jpg


Pferd 11216206 Workshop File, flat tapered, cut 1, 200mm (8")
Adding to the 2nd cut set I got earlier this year. I found myself wanting something more aggressive for when I didn't want to get the angle grinder, for convenience or precision.

Bahco 2-in-1 Homeowner's File for Wood & Metal 4-152
For a portable box. Side pictured is a rasp for wood etc., the other side is 2nd cut metal, sides are smooth. They also do a 4-153 which is ******* metal one side, and single cut for sharpening on the other. Both available in a set (4-154) too. Made in Portugal.
4 - Copy.jpg

Facom 44 double open end wrench 13x17mm
eBay find, almost pristine condition. I have quite a few newer Facom wrenches but none from the made in France days. The size gap 13x17 is quite large especially at these relatively low sizes, so the length probably isn't optimal for either.
44 - Copy.jpg
 
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