The VISES of Garage Journal

[Thirdyfivepickup]

So I was checking Facebook Marketplace for stuff I didn't need and a Wilton Shop King pops up locally to me for $25. It's rusty and nasty but looks to be pretty decent for the $25 asking price. Once home I started cleaning it up and found a pretty big crack under the jaw... My fault for not looking closer. Either way I probably would have picked it up for parts. This one might be smoothed out and stuck on a shelf as a display.
I'm thinking about maybe breaking the separated piece off and smoothing out that area. You might not notice its missing some material....

 

[KMScott]

I spent a couple of hours today taking the Reed apart and cleaning it up good.

I had an issue getting the dynamic jaw to slide out... I had to stone the top of the slide where it was slightly mushroomed from being used as an anvil.

@KMScott ... the split nut appears to measure about 1.825" diameter... I only have half of it, so I'm not sure exactly how close that measurement is, though. I do have another identical Craftsman "Reedsman" vise, though, so I may take the nut out of it and see if it fits. If it does, it will make a good pattern.

I have most of it cleaned up... the date stamping is difficult to read, but appears to be "11-45".

However... after cleaning 5 pounds of gunk off, I made a discovery...

Nuts...

So... is it worth brazing that up and making a split nut, or should I part it out and help someone else maybe fix theirs? I don't have much money in it... the good parts are likely worth more than I paid for it, if I can find a buyer.

-Bear

Edit: the split nut out of the Craftsman vise does fit... it measures 1.850 diameter at the threads...

Bear
Well if you decide to build a split nut then I have a drawing to share. Good luck.

 

[682bear]

Bear
Well if you decide to build a split nut then I have a drawing to share. Good luck.

Thanks- I appreciate it!

-Bear

 

[M.Brane]

Unfortunately cracks are hard to see under decades of grime, and rust. It's the chance you take.

 

[Outlawmws]

I'm thinking about maybe breaking the separated piece off and smoothing out that area. You might not notice its missing some material....

I'd class that as a fairly easy braze job? Vee it out and fill. Preheat before and cool slowly.

 

[a6hux]

Found a No.88 today for $50

 

[ColonelJLloyd]

Longtime listener, first time caller. While I am well aware of this esteemed forum I only joined today as I don't think I have much to contribute beyond the knowledge here. Happy Father's Day to all you dads out there.

While I am new here, I have spent nearly two decades on a couple unrelated forums so I am aware and respectful of the etiquette, but each is a bit different and apologies in advance if I knock anything over.

This is not a covert "what's it worth" post. I grew up in a very rural area, but I've lived my adult life in the city and only now at 45 have a garage I can use as a small workshop. I recently built a rudimentary but very functional bench and have been looking for a vise. Yesterday I was given one by a family friend. It was her late father's (who would be approaching 100 were he alive), but it's unknown if he used it or picked it up later in life. It appears to be in good working condition, but I have not yet mounted it. I wanted to seek out some knowledge and advice here before I set about cleaning and lubricating it. Here's what I can say about it.

• There are no maker's marks or any other identification that I can see
• 36.4 pounds
• Jaws are 3 7/8"/99mm wide and 1"/26mm tall
• Steel jaw inserts are captive/fixed
• Unusual (?) retainer arrangement (a piece is broken from the retainer but seems to function fine)
• Turns easily, but the grease feels old and gummy
• The nut spins freely

Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr

 

[four.cycle]

Hello there @ColonelJLloyd and welcome to the site!

 

[Outlawmws]

Col. - Welcome!

There have been some posts on a similar vise in the past week or so. I'd work back from here or check on the Vise ID thread. for the same

 

[ColonelJLloyd]

Thanks much. I searched but couldn't seem to find a general Vise ID thread.

I'm a little perplexed by the retention method here. The Acme screw just seems to be peened to keep the nut from backing off which I wouldn't think was the original intent.

 

[Outlawmws]

Thanks much. I searched but couldn't seem to find a general Vise ID thread.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/vise-info-thread.355753/

 

[four.cycle]

You found "the big vise thread". You're in the right place.
We're just waiting for one of the experts to show up and say "Oh yeah... that's an E.C. Stearns such-and-such.... "
(The "Vise Info" thread leans more towards catalog pages and patents..... THIS thread is where everyone shows off their vises... there's another thread where they discuss vise repairs and restoration.)

You'll want to keep this link handy to navigate your way around here.

and this one too

I'd make a wild guess and say "possibly Stearns", but the truth is: I don't know jack about vises. One of the other guys will most likely be able to ID it.

 

[GOman60]

I spent a couple of hours today taking the Reed apart and cleaning it up good.

I had an issue getting the dynamic jaw to slide out... I had to stone the top of the slide where it was slightly mushroomed from being used as an anvil.

@KMScott ... the split nut appears to measure about 1.825" diameter... I only have half of it, so I'm not sure exactly how close that measurement is, though. I do have another identical Craftsman "Reedsman" vise, though, so I may take the nut out of it and see if it fits. If it does, it will make a good pattern.

I have most of it cleaned up... the date stamping is difficult to read, but appears to be "11-45".



However... after cleaning 5 pounds of gunk off, I made a discovery...







Nuts...

So... is it worth brazing that up and making a split nut, or should I part it out and help someone else maybe fix theirs? I don't have much money in it... the good parts are likely worth more than I paid for it, if I can find a buyer.

-Bear

Edit: the split nut out of the Craftsman vise does fit... it measures 1.850 diameter at the threads...

I spent a couple of hours today taking the Reed apart and cleaning it up good.

I had an issue getting the dynamic jaw to slide out... I had to stone the top of the slide where it was slightly mushroomed from being used as an anvil.

@KMScott ... the split nut appears to measure about 1.825" diameter... I only have half of it, so I'm not sure exactly how close that measurement is, though. I do have another identical Craftsman "Reedsman" vise, though, so I may take the nut out of it and see if it fits. If it does, it will make a good pattern.

I have most of it cleaned up... the date stamping is difficult to read, but appears to be "11-45".



However... after cleaning 5 pounds of gunk off, I made a discovery...







Nuts...

So... is it worth brazing that up and making a split nut, or should I part it out and help someone else maybe fix theirs? I don't have much money in it... the good parts are likely worth more than I paid for it, if I can find a buyer.

-Bear

Edit: the split nut out of the Craftsman vise does fit... it measures 1.850 diameter at the threads...

Regarding brazing, recently picked up a C. Parker #22 vice that a previous owner had braze up. After a couple of very light hammer blows to test it's strength the braze failed. I plan on using the vice and it obviously wasn't going to cut it.
My solution was to drill and tap the support for a couple of 5/16 x 3" socket cap bolts. The bolts are splayed out and are angled down into the thickest part of the base. Not sure if this will work for you as the design of your vice is a little different.
I realize collectors are going to balk, but as stated I plan on using the vice.

 

[Outlawmws]

Regarding brazing, recently picked up a C. Parker #22 vice that a previous owner had braze up. After a couple of very light hammer blows to test it's strength the braze failed. I plan on using the vice and it obviously wasn't going to cut it.
My solution was to drill and tap the support for a couple of 5/16 x 3" socket cap bolts. The bolts are splayed out and are angled down into the thickest part of the base. Not sure if this will work for you as the design of your vice is a little different.
I realize collectors are going to balk, but as stated I plan on using the vice.

I'd unbolt that, clean and prep the braze area with a proper chamfur, Bolt it back up and properly preheat, then re-braze and cool slow in hot sand.

 

[PghJKB]

Longtime listener, first time caller. While I am well aware of this esteemed forum I only joined today as I don't think I have much to contribute beyond the knowledge here. Happy Father's Day to all you dads out there.

While I am new here, I have spent nearly two decades on a couple unrelated forums so I am aware and respectful of the etiquette, but each is a bit different and apologies in advance if I knock anything over.

This is not a covert "what's it worth" post. I grew up in a very rural area, but I've lived my adult life in the city and only now at 45 have a garage I can use as a small workshop. I recently built a rudimentary but very functional bench and have been looking for a vise. Yesterday I was given one by a family friend. It was her late father's (who would be approaching 100 were he alive), but it's unknown if he used it or picked it up later in life. It appears to be in good working condition, but I have not yet mounted it. I wanted to seek out some knowledge and advice here before I set about cleaning and lubricating it. Here's what I can say about it.

• There are no maker's marks or any other identification that I can see
• 36.4 pounds
• Jaws are 3 7/8"/99mm wide and 1"/26mm tall
• Steel jaw inserts are captive/fixed
• Unusual (?) retainer arrangement (a piece is broken from the retainer but seems to function fine)
• Turns easily, but the grease feels old and gummy
• The nut spins freely

Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr

Col
Looks to me like a Millers Falls Oval Slide Vise. (Kinda of a sad oval, but what the heck).

If you look through this and the Vise Info thread you will run into several old ads for this vise.

That retaining nut could save some foot pain.

JKB

 

[PghJKB]

Col.

Try here:

Unusual Vise - help me identify

Just picked up this unusual vise. There are no markings or signifiers anywhere. I'm wondering if anyone has any more info on this. Fully extended it's about 24 inches long. Really solid vise.

www.garagejournal.com

Post #4 is your ticket to knowledge...

JKB

 

[four.cycle]

^ Thanks.

 

[tool_scrounge]

Found a No.88 today for $50

Nice! It looks to have all three pipe vise jaws which is rare. I have an 87 and finding the missing removable front pipe jaw took a few years.

 

[colmal]

This arrived today, just gave it a quick scrub down, will derust repaint at some point, liked the oval handle mount.

Looks like a Japan made copy of a US vice, cast in pipe jaws aren't common to OZ made vices like the US, maybe missing a swivel mount as well. kinda well made, a little bit of slop, however it has Riveted jaws, which I have only seen before on a couple of 90 yr old Dawn vices (maybe a oldtimey repair method)

This Grip 830 looks all original, solid, very good condition apart from a crappy repaint.

75mm/ 2 7/8" jaws

4kg/ 8lb 11oz

Found another cheap Grip vice, but didn't excite me and didn't bid

Oz had/has vintage Gripwell and Easigrip made vices, no idea if any relation

Does Anyone have a clue, know, guess or can speculate ?

 

[CRSINMICH]

Colonel: You got some good information about your oval slide vise from PghJKB and four.cycle. This is p.188 from a 1922 Millers Falls catalog. The jaw widths don't match what you posted but the weight of the 4" model matches the weight you posted fairly closely.
I've spiffed up a couple oval slides and they were kind of fun to do.

​

 

[ColonelJLloyd]

I am not surprised by this knowledge and sleuthing, but I am impressed. Well done and many thanks, all!

So it would be accurately described as a Millers Falls Company model no. 521 from right around 100 years ago? Curious how long that model was produced. The catalog below shows no markings on their vises. Do you all reckon the "Millers Falls Company" logo on the vise from p. 188 was paint or a waterslide or similar?

What is the maker referring to by "parallel" on this vise (oval slide vise vs. oval slide parallel vise)?

@CRSINMICH, this catalog page referenced in the thread linked above lists the weight as 36 1/2 pounds which is effectively dead-on (36.4 pounds) for a big piece of cast iron produced a century ago.

 

[four.cycle]

@ColonelJLloyd -
That 1910 Baker Hamilton Co. catalog page I posted above is the only document that I have on file which shows that model of vise.

That said, International Catalog Library is your friend - you just never know what you'll find there.

 

[ColonelJLloyd]

Thanks for the link. I don't think I agree that the Baker Hamilton catalog is showing a Millers Falls model. The vise in that catalog doesn't appear to have the novel nut used on the end of the screw and the head of the screw is a ball end rather than a cylinder. Also, what the heck is "Japanned"?

 

[Outlawmws]

what the heck is "Japanned"?

Japanned or Japanning is a glossy black or near black finish applied to metals as a hard finish. its very resilient and many tools were "painted" with it. (its not exactly a paint.

 

[ColonelJLloyd]

Would the hive mind suggest that I disassemble this vise to thoroughly clean it or not disturb the nut and end of the screw?

 

[neophyte]

Thanks for the link. I don't think I agree that the Baker Hamilton catalog is showing a Millers Falls model. The vise in that catalog doesn't appear to have the novel nut used on the end of the screw and the head of the screw is a ball end rather than a cylinder. Also, what the heck is "Japanned"?

“Japanned” referred to a gloss black finish, routinely applied to metal objects, that was designed to mimic Japanese and Chinese Lacquer, (ie. a high gloss “lacquer enamel like” finish).
Japanese and Chinese lacquer was not actually available for use as a finish in Europe or America, because it requires the processed sap of trees that really only grow in East Asia, and which require specific processing.
“Japanning” relied on Linseed or other “drying oil” finished, usually mixed with lead compounds to promote curing, as well as black pigments and resins and or bitumen, and possibly cured in an oven.
Basically, the finish looked like Japanese lacquer, but contained completely different base ingredients, although in some cases, the Japanning ingredients were used similar to the Urushi lacquer, in gluing together layers of paper or wood to mold specialty furniture, which is referred to as “Paper Mache” furniture, even though the materials were distinctly different than the “Paper Mache” you might have used in an art class in grade school.

 

[a6hux]

Nice! It looks to have all three pipe vise jaws which is rare. I have an 87 and finding the missing removable front pipe jaw took a few years.

Yes it did come with the pipe jaws and they are in really good shape. Thanks for noticing!!

 

[CRSINMICH]

colonel: I'd say go ahead and disassemble it If you think you can get the end nut off without too much damage. By the way, you might be able to re-japan it too. Japanning 'sauce' is available and fairly cheap but you would have to have an old oven or an understanding wife. It smells bad. I've done it on small vintage tools with a cheap toaster oven.

​

 

[four.cycle]

@ColonelJLloyd -

A couple examples of objects which originally had "Japanned" finishes:

The "Dunlap" wrenches retain only traces of the original "Japanned" finish.
The "Heinish" shears still retain most of the "Japanning" on the handles.

 

[ColonelJLloyd]

That's a good looking pair of shears (I'm a kitchen knife guy). I do 100% of the cooking in my house so what goes in the oven is on me, but 10-4 on the smell. I'll consider a Japanned type finish once I get the cleaning done.

My hesitation with removal boils down to the nut and end of the screw. I don't understand what the original intent was here. The nut is currently captive, but it seems only because the end of the screw was peened a bit. That screw has a slot and a hole in it, but doesn't appear to have used a pin of some sort.

 

[Outlawmws]

That's a good looking pair of shears (I'm a kitchen knife guy). I do 100% of the cooking in my house so what goes in the oven is on me, but 10-4 on the smell. I'll consider a Japanned type finish once I get the cleaning done.

My hesitation with removal boils down to the nut and end of the screw. I don't understand what the original intent was here. The nut is currently captive, but it seems only because the end of the screw was peened a bit. That screw has a slot and a hole in it, but doesn't appear to have used a pin of some sort.

If you can clean everything adequately I'd leave the nut alone. that's just me as I don't believe in "fix till broke". (happens enough when you have to go that deep...)

 

[CRSINMICH]

colonel: I was doing some research to see if I could determine the dates of Millers Falls production of oval slide vises. (They offered one as early as 1878 but I didn't find any being offered after 1922.) During that search I came upon this one from Clipper Tool Co. of Buffalo, NY. They are listed as "manufacturers of vises". There is one in the Vise Spreadsheet with a link to a July 2021 post about it. Post #2101. The ad says there were 4 sizes of oval slides and 3 sizes of clamp vises but only one is on the Spreadsheet. The CLIPPER name is cast into the vise so they probably did manufacture them. Who knew?

p.s. I do all the cooking too and I do have sharp knives. I've used Heinisch shears and they are a wonder!

​

 

[Vril]

My 4 1/2" Record No 4.

 

[four.cycle]

was doing some research to see if I could determine the dates of Millers Falls production of oval slide vises.

excellent.

 

[four.cycle]

That's a good looking pair of shears

Garage sale few weeks back. Those and three pairs of barbers shears set me back $2.00.
I gave my buddy my big pair of Wiss shears after I found that Heinisch piece - it's really nice.

"They offered one as early as 1878 but I didn't find any being offered after 1922."

I went through all my files twice and that 1910 catalog page is all I have, and I believe that you were the one who identified it as a Millers Falls for me. No? Yes?
(If that's not correct let me know -- I don't want any of these files mis-identified -- that just adds to the confusion.)

( @ColonelJLloyd is seeing a variation between his specimen and the catalog engraving.)

 

[CRSINMICH]

four cycle: I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to but here is a composite of all the Millers Falls oval slide catalog cuts I have. I should probably post this on the Vise Information thread too.

​

 

[Outlawmws]

( @ColonelJLloyd is seeing a variation between his specimen and the catalog engraving.)

It's not uncommon for there to be small differences and even missed design changes in catalog drawings and even pics. If minor enough they didn't want to go to the expense of updating.

 

[four.cycle]

t's not uncommon for there to be small differences and even missed design changes in catalog drawings and even pics. If minor enough they didn't want to go to the expense of updating.

Yes. We had a discussion long ago about "artist renditions" in catalogs. Wrong handles, stripes or no stripes, piano hinge or otherwise, on and on and on. Those early catalogs were illustrated with engravings, which could not possibly have been cheap, so they would have used what they had on hand (as opposed to creating new artwork.)

 

[zanyad]

Found a No.88 today for $50

Congrats! You ****!

 

[M.Brane]

Found a No.88 today for $50

Definitely a "You suck1" score.