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ZMotorsports Shop Projects 2.0

madison069

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Nov 5, 2010
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Location
Monroeville, PA
Pffft. Cody, you can't wipe your hands with concrete. :bounce: But it's your choice, but what kind of example would you be setting for the neighborhood walking around with greasy hands? But you'll have your concrete.. :LOL:
I got that good Viva towels from Wally World! I do like y’all and keep the lightly dirty towels in a pile for the oil spills and such. I just have to keep the pile size in check or I would end up with a big pile in the garage!

I think my neighbors wish I would quit parking vehicles on the yard when the kids are all home with their friends and have my trailers parked beside the barn instead of in front as per the ordinance. Honestly I’m surprised nobody has called the boro on me yet!
 
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rd65

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Sep 29, 2017
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Granite Falls, WA
I bought the wypall x80s and the big roll has lasted over a year and a half. Thats with daily shop use as well so they arent cheap at 70ish dollars a roll but have been well worth it. Theres also tons of towels laying around the shop in varying degrees of used waiting for the next cleaning job to pop up.
Been there, done that. I was staying at my grandparents house for the summer working at their Ford/JD dealer cleaning the shop. Ran a load of my very greasy pants, who needs a rag when you are wearing jeans, through Grandma's washing machine. Grandpa informed me that I was to do my laundry at the laundromat in town from that day on. I listened.
 

madison069

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Been there, done that. I was staying at my grandparents house for the summer working at their Ford/JD dealer cleaning the shop. Ran a load of my very greasy pants, who needs a rag when you are wearing jeans, through Grandma's washing machine. Grandpa informed me that I was to do my laundry at the laundromat in town from that day on. I listened.
Back in a small town in West Texas, there were designated washers for oily greasy work clothes for the oil field guys. My dad actually had a washer on the back porch for his oily clothes when he was a driller and tool pusher.
 

signcrafter

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Back in a small town in West Texas, there were designated washers for oily greasy work clothes for the oil field guys. My dad actually had a washer on the back porch for his oily clothes when he was a driller and tool pusher.
I picked up a free washer from marketplace a few years back. It was only a few years old but the bearing/seal had gone out, common problem on those models. Fixed it and now it's a washer for anything dirty. I was some shop rags in it and if my clothes are really dirty. Wife was really happy when I hooked that up.
 

WoodsTruck

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Different, but the same.
I inherited my wife's old clothes iron so I can use it on less than pristine things that need repaired.
Pretty handy before I run something through my commercial sewing machine.
 

lilscorpion

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Colorado
Ok...let's start with the obvious - DAMN IT @zmotorsports/mike...Links, part numbers, make it happen!
I have OCD, ADD, and a full time job. I see you've optimized something, found a better way, AND it's about clean hands? A$$. Just brain dump some links so I can move on to make my wife happy with clean hands at dinner.

seriously...

So big round roll-o-towels is the winner? Where did you buy? Can you (please) share some links and partNo's?

#WifeThanksYou ;)

edit: If you did in fact share links, I'm a loser. Make fun of me.
 
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zmotorsports

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Ok...let's start with the obvious - DAMN IT @zmotorsports/mike...Links, part numbers, make it happen!
I have OCD, ADD, and a full time job. I see you've optimized something, found a better way, AND it's about clean hands? A$$. Just brain dump some links so I can move on to make my wife happy with clean hands at dinner.

seriously...

So big round roll-o-towels is the winner? Where did you buy? Can you (please) share some links and partNo's?

#WifeThanksYou ;)

edit: If you did in fact share links, I'm a loser. Make fun of me.

Sorry Matt, just doing my part to help you guys lighten your wallets. No wait, in this case it's about saving money, so yeah, I'm trying to help ya'll fatten your wallets. Yeah, let's go with that. ;)


They are available from multiple places, I priced my local Grainger and even having our rep "tweak" the pricing for me, it was still less expensive on Zoro with a 20% coupon. I also had a $25 dollar coupon that was about to expire from Zoro.

Part number for the red Wypall X80 Heavy Duty shop towel on the roll is 41055. They make a floor mount dispenser also, or you could easily make your own, but for time constraints I ordered the Wypall 80579. With the coupon it brought it down to about $40.

Hope that helps Matt, @lilscorpion . Thanks for stopping by my humble little projects thread. I say humble because yours is over the top.
 
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zmotorsports

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I was cutting some cribbing to carry with me in the coach last night and had an unfortunate mishap. More than a year ago I noticed I had a chipped tooth on my horizontal bandsaw, but it was minor and just a little tick every revolution of the blade as it went through the material being cut. I have cut a LOT of material with that missing or chipped tooth, until last night that is. I was cutting the third of four cribbing blocks and I heard a loud pop and the sound changed. The nice thing about the horizontal saw is that I can clamp material in the vise, turn it on, set the feed rate and walk away and let it do its thing while I do something else. As soon as I heard the noise I knew exactly what took place.

Sure enough. The tension adjuster went loose so I removed the cover and exposed the broken blade. This one had a good run, it has been on my saw for almost 8 years.
shop1.jpg

shop2.jpg

Grabbed the box of spares off the shelf.
shop3.jpg

Grabbed the new Lenox 3/4" x .035" for the horizontal saw.
shop4.jpg

I think I've mentioned this company before as my source for blades for both my vertical and horizontal bandsaws.
shop5.jpg


With the new blade installed and running true, I slowed the feed rate by about 50% for the first little bit to break the blade in.

Thanks for looking.
 

aka Larry

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Eastern, NC
More than a year ago I noticed I had a chipped tooth on my horizontal bandsaw, but it was minor and just a little tick every revolution of the blade as it went through the material being cut. I have cut a LOT of material with that missing or chipped tooth, until last night that is.

Funny how this worked out Mike.

For me it was about 10 years ago that I too had a chipped tooth. It has served me well through cutting through lots of food, but Tuesday night it decide it had enough. Fortunately the dentist was able to work me in that next afternoon, but he said the missing piece was too large for a filling. About an hour later I had temporary crown, and was in no pain except in my wallet. Even with dental insurance my out-of-pocket was almost $900. :scared:

Glad yours is fixed Mike.
 
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zmotorsports

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With the bandsaw running again, I got back to work on what I was doing, raising the coach up and putting it on jackstands to be able to crawl under it.

I think I showed earlier this year where I went through my air system and replaced all of my PPV valves, a few lines and a lot of the PTC fittings were replaced with compression fittings. It seemed to hold air very well, but during our last trip I noticed that when the governor purged the air drier through the purge valve, I would get a drop in pressure on my primary side, which is normal, but then it seemed to take a little bit to stabilize. Once we arrived and got to our campsite, leveled the coach, we had no issues with the suspension bleeding off as it held most all week without issue, but my primary air pressure did drop off overnight to around 90 PSI. Now don't get me wrong, by DOT standards and most other diesel RV's with air systems, this is still a pretty tight system. The DOT regulations demand no more than 2PSI per minute drop in pressure and I was only losing about 2 to 2.5 PSI in about a half an hour so WELL under the reason to be alarmed, but I also wanted to try to see if I could track down that small leak I must still have present in my system. Now before you all go off on me, I know there is no such thing as a perfectly tight air system on one of these rigs, which is why the DOT has an acceptable loss allowance, but still, I'd like it to be as tight as possible and I have prided myself on keeping my air system pretty tight over the nearly 20 years we've owned it now. Our first diesel pusher, a 1991 38' Beaver Contessa, had a LOT of air leaks when we purchased it and I spent the better part of the first six months of ownership tracking them down and repairing them, so I know it is time consuming, but I've mentioned before, RV'ing isn't just something the wife and I do, it is a lifestyle to us and a labor of love keeping our RV in as pristine of condition as I can.

That being said, I started doing some testing once I got the coach up on jackstands. I started by firing the coach up and running the air pressure up to almost governed air pressure, just before popping the purge valve and shut the engine off. This held the air pressure right around the 125 PSI range. I then crawled under the coach and sprayed soapy water all over the valves and fittings that I replaced earlier in the year and around the auxiliary air brake system that I added so I could either find a leak in something I disturbed OR, rule out anything I had touched. All I did was get wet, because I saw no bubbles anywhere on the primary system from a component I touched or not. Plus the system was holding air beautifully.

I crawled out and fired up the coach, pumped the brakes to drop the pressure to around 100 PSI so the compressor would start building pressure again and this time I let it run right up to the governed air pressure and let the purge valve pop. I was trying to diagnose exactly under what conditions I was losing air pressure. Sure enough as soon as the air pressure released through the purge valve there was about a 8-10 PSI drop, which is "somewhat" normal, but then it still dropped just a bit more as time went on. I knew the only two components that had any involvement in the purging was the governor and the air dryer so I soaped the **** out of them and then noticed this.
coach1.jpg

The purge valve I rebuilt a few months ago and seems to be holding well, but there is another cavity just to the 11 O'clock position from the purge valve that is leaking air. Not enough to hear audibly, but the bubbles don't lie, just grow. This is the outlet port check valve (port 21) on the R955205 air dryer.
coach2.jpg

In order to access the air dryer, the street side tag tire/wheel needs to be removed.
coach3.jpg

Lugnuts removed and ready to walk the tire/wheel off the studs and hub.
coach4.jpg

I serviced my hubs last year so this also gave me the opportunity to double check the fluid level. Still full.
coach5.jpg

After wrestling with the outlet hose and the electrical connector it was finally out from under the coach and on the bench.
coach6.jpg

This is the port that was leaking.
coach7.jpg


I could probably rebuild the check valve and be good, but on a 24+ year old coach with 150k I think this air dryer has given me a good life and time to retire it and replace it. I will however, pull the new purge valve that I recently installed and keep that on hand.


Thanks for looking.
 
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zmotorsports

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***currently looking around the internet for red towels like I don’t have any other money obligations *****

🤣😂🤣


Obligations, smobligations Cody. You know you need these......:LOL:


Just giving you **** Cody, I completely understand having funds earmarked for a specific thing and trying not to look at anything else. Then there are those damn people that just keep making it hard not to look. :unsure:


Funny how this worked out Mike.

For me it was about 10 years ago that I too had a chipped tooth. It has served me well through cutting through lots of food, but Tuesday night it decide it had enough. Fortunately the dentist was able to work me in that next afternoon, but he said the missing piece was too large for a filling. About an hour later I had temporary crown, and was in no pain except in my wallet. Even with dental insurance my out-of-pocket was almost $900. :scared:

Glad yours is fixed Mike.

Glad you got it fixed Vincent. My wife recently chipped a tooth as well and had a temporary crown for almost two weeks, but it was replaced with her permanent one earlier this week. Not cheap is right.
 
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zmotorsports

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I rarely get more than 2 years out of a Lennox band-saw blade. I was surprised to see that you got 8 years out of one! Maybe it's due to my ~30 year old chinesium saw? I'm quite sure it's not the occasional abuse that I give it.......

I don't think it's an anomaly for me Thom, I have owned this bandsaw for 12 years and this is only the third blade I have put on it. The first one didn't six months, but I was using the blade that came with the saw that was not of the highest quality, plus I know I pushed it more than I should have. I have been very, very pleased with the Lenox blades that I have used on both my bandsaws. No complaints here, more praises in fact. I wouldn't say I use my saws daily, but they both see a lot of use in my shop.
 

ntsqd

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Jan 22, 2005
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Lower left coast
To be honest I'm sure that my occasionally using the blade as a band-file probably isn't the best thing for it. LOL

I put new bearings in it a while ago, but I really need to rebuild it. It has only one speed due to the belt tensioner failing and the stop for repetitive length cuts is broken. It came to me with both of those "features" 20-odd years ago. Good grief! When I got it the PO told me it was 20 years old then! A Rong-Fu from HF what must now be over 40 years ago. This getting old thing is difficult to deal with.

Fouckhest, a friend bought a new version of my saw and immediately complained about how badly it cut. Mine will hold .01" almost by accident and if I'm careful about nurse-maiding it I can get it to hold .005" or less. His cuts were varying by .03" or more. Still had the HF blade in it. I told him to buy a Lennox for it and adjust the guide bearings tight. He groused about the cost for a couple of weeks and then bought one. Haven't heard him complain about it after that.
 
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zmotorsports

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Mike are you going to carry cribbing in the coach when you travel???

That is correct Keith. I cut some 2" square tubing to lengths (4 total) in the event I have an issue with the chassis so I can use the air system to raise it up, put the steel tubes between the H-frame and the chassis rails and that will allow me to "SAFELY" get under the coach without worry. Where I don't have hydraulic jacks I should have done this years ago. Thankfully I haven't needed them, but just trying to be prepared for the future.
 
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LXCam

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I don't think it's an anomaly for me Thom, I have owned this bandsaw for 12 years and this is only the third blade I have put on it. The first one didn't six months, but I was using the blade that came with the saw that was not of the highest quality, plus I know I pushed it more than I should have. I have been very, very pleased with the Lenox blades that I have used on both my bandsaws. No complaints here, more praises in fact. I wouldn't say I use my saws daily, but they both see a lot of use in my shop.
I bought my 9/16 dropdown in 07ish along with 5 spare Morse blades. That ole girl has made thousands upon thousands of cuts thru the years. I just replaced a blade one of my guys broke being a little greedy on the feed rate and I still have one spare on the shelf.

Question is I don’t think I’ve got 20yrs left in me so how many more blades should I really buy 🤔 🤣

Oh I almost forgot. Happy father’s days to both you and the boy Mike. I bet it was a great one.
 
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zmotorsports

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I would be ticketed pink to have a truck that held that much air overnight!

I’m excited when I come back from lunch with the crew about forty min and the truck doesn’t need to high idle to catch back up

Dave, I know I'm being a little **** about the air loss, but I've been able to maintain a pretty dang tight system over the years of ownership and I'm just trying to find any small leaks I possibly can. On the RV forums and amongst fellow RV'ing friends, there are quite a few that live with air leaks as long as they pass the DOT test of 2 PSI/per minute maximum loss. I just think I can do better than that.




I bought my 9/16 dropdown in 07ish along with 5 spare Morse blades. That ole girl has made thousands upon thousands of cuts thru the years. I just replaced a blade one of my guys broke being a little greedy on the feed rate and I still have one spare on the shelf.

Question is I don’t think I’ve got 20yrs left in me so how many more blades should I really buy 🤔 🤣

Oh I almost forgot. Happy father’s days to both you and the boy Mike. I bet it was a great one.


I think you should buy at least a half dozen extras Cam. ;)

Thanks, yeah, had a GREAT Father's Day. Hope you did as well.
 
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zmotorsports

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I hope everyone had a great Father's Day. It was a busy as hell weekend for me as I had a lot of little honey do's on Saturday morning as well as lawn mowing, then had to go into work for the afternoon and early evening for a controlled power shutdown. We had a voltage regulator fail at our substation and had to switch everything over to back feed through the other loop at our substation so we can send the voltage regulators out for repair. We can usually switch one switchgear at the back of our site and parallel the loops, then disconnect at the substation all without losing power. However, with the voltage regulators acting up we couldn't parallel the loops so we had to shed our refrigeration and battery charging loads, then throw switches and once voltage stabalized, bring the loads back online. Wasn't too terrible, but just takes time and Saturday afternoon after Operations was done for the day was the only time we could perform this without disrupting inbound or outbound Operations. So Maintenance was in charge and being Father's Day weekend, I just figured I would go in and take care of it, plus I hadn't been part of a controlled power shutdown for a few years so it was a good refresher for me. Unfortunately, I've been part of too many "unscheduled" power outages, so I feel plenty well versed in those. :rolleyes:


Saturday morning I met my son and grandson for breakfast and on the drive there my Jeep rolled over 175k miles on the odometer.
sat1.jpg

Upon returning home from breakfast, I trimmed, edged and mowed the lawns.


Saturday morning the wife alerted me to the fact that the coffee pot wasn't working, so I guess it was a good thing I was meeing my son and grandson for breakfast, otherwise I don't think anyone would want to be around me without my morning coffee. :dunno:

Before heading to work I grabbed the coffee maker and headed out to the shop to see if I could determine the cause.
sat2.jpg

Had power coming through the switch and to one side of the thermistor.
sat3.jpg

But not the other side going to the heating element. BINGO. Just to be sure the heating element wasn't shorted and took out the thermistor I tested it and it seemed fine with 14.7 ohms.
sat4.jpg

I was able to find a part # on the original thermistor. Lo and behold the jungle even had a box of 2 in stock and it showed next day delivery. Had the wife order them and then grabbed the coffee maker from the coach so we could have coffee on the deck on Sunday morning.
sat5.jpg


Sunday morning coffee on the deck and relaxing with the wife. She made me a wonderful breakfast, then relaxed on the deck as the temperatures were very pleasant. Some of my dry spots are looking a little better and the couple areas of struggling grass are starting to fill in, slightly.
sun1.jpg

Early Sunday afternoon the jungle delivered the thermistors.
sat6.jpg

Preparing the soldering iron.
sat7.jpg

sat8.jpg

Old thermistor removed and soldering the new one into place.
sat9.jpg

I used to use this thermal paste a LOT when I wrenched on electric forklifts as the SCR's all used this paste. I don't think I've grabbed it out of my toolbox in several years.
sat10.jpg

The key with the thermal paste is to use it sparingly. A little goes a long ways and one of my pet peeves is when coworkers would slather that stuff all over the aluminum heat sinks.
sat11.jpg

There should only be a little layer, barely enough to discolor the mounting surface of the component.
sat12.jpg

Thermistor screwed back in place and ready for a test drive.
sat13.jpg



The wife ran a cleaning cycle of vinegar through the coffee maker and it worked perfectly. Much cheaper than a new coffee maker and the feeling of saving another appliance.

Thanks for looking.
 
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zmotorsports

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While I was in the shop repairing the coffee maker, the wife came out with her hair dryer in hand saying that the handle was getting way too hot, almost too hot to hold on to, then it just stopped getting warm and only blew ambient air. Well, I guess I'm already in appliance fixing mode, so I disassembled it as well.

I really don't think these things are designed to be taken apart by the end user. The trim was easy enough to remove, but the little plastic clips that snap the whole thing together are less than ideal to release.
sat14.jpg

Released one side at a time trying not to break any of the small plastic tabs.
sat15.jpg

With it apart I began taking voltage measurements from the switch out to the various components. The motor ran fine will all three speeds, but the heating element wasn't getting hot.
sat16.jpg

This little bimetal switch didn't seem to be engaging to allow current to the heating element. The heating element ohm'd out so it wasn't shorted or open, so I figured this switch was the culprit. However, I have seen these things be very temperamental and once they start acting up they generally never recover.
sat17.jpg

I played with the bimetal spring steel a little "hoping" I could "reboot" it and get it working again, but it didn't like that. Those bimetal springs are so sensitive and once they heat up to the point of deforming the metal spring, they never really work right again. No difference in this case either. It didn't like being messed with and I could not locate a new switch, so unfortunately, her hair dryer was bound for the trash.
sat18.png


She had ordered another one already, but I was really hoping to save this one as a backup, but I just didn't like the way that switch was acting so I don't feel comfortable continuing to let her use it.

Oh well, I was 50/50 on saving appliances over the weekend. I'll take that as a win.
 
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zmotorsports

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Sunday afternoon we had my son and his family over for dinner so we got to play with our grandchildren for a bit. I was outside on the deck grilling when my grandson came out to wish me a Happy Father's Day. He was so excited for me to open my gift and I kept telling him I didn't want anything, that he was my gift to come and see me, but he insisted I open the gift they brought. We agreed we would eat first.

I had grilled steaks and corn on the cob on the grill and the wife made carmelized onions and roasted potatoes and onions along with steamed carrots so we had a wonderful meal. My grandson loves onions and chowed down on the onions with potatoes and he loves his grandmothers carrots as she makes them with some brown sugar.

After dinner my grandson couldn't wait for me to open the gift. He and his dad have been doing a lot of 3D printing and I loved each and every thing they made me.

I guess it's common knowledge around my house that I like Snap-on tools and Chevrolet's. A coaster set with holder.
fathers1.jpg

A small desktop toolbox.
fathers2.jpg

With flip up lid.
fathers3.jpg

And a drawer that opens for storage. This will go on my desk.
fathers4.jpg

Along with a pocket sized caliper.
fathers5.jpg

And some badging, an Instinct style of driver handle and a round container that the top screws off. I have to admit when I saw the container I didn't know what it was because the seam for the lid was undetectable when threaded onto the base.
fathers6.jpg

And my son knows how intrigued I am with the "Fitz". Not sure why because I hate water, but for some reason I am fascinated by both the Edmund Fitzgerald as well as the Titanic sinkings.
fathers7.jpg


I hope everyone had a great Father's Day. I was very blessed with being able to spend time with my family and I was spoiled once again.

Thank you for looking.
 
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zmotorsports

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I almost forgot, Friday afternoon I swung by my local Fleetpride branch and picked up a replacement air dryer and a couple of new fittings for the coach.

The old one crossed over directly to one they had in stock. I also picked up a standard D-2 governor to have on hand and carry with me. It is working fine so I won't disturb it, but with 150k miles on it, it may not be a bad idea to carry a spare.
coach8.jpg

Coach on jackstands and the tag tire/wheel removed to gain access. Getting to the air dryer on this coach is less than ideal.
coach9.jpg

It is sandwiches up between the frame rail and the transmission so access from underneath is not really possible. I can see it and I can touch it, but that's about it without removing the driver's side tag axle tire/wheel. Then access still isn't great because it is on the inside of the frame rail, but much better than with the tire & wheel installed.
coach10.jpg

I installed the new fittings using Loctite 545 sealant.
coach11.jpg

Everything matches up and is ready for installation.
coach12.jpg


I opted to not install it Friday night because it is a dirty and nasty job and we were going to dinner. Once I get up under there I just want to get it completed and then clean up, so it will get done one night this week.

Thanks for looking.
 
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zmotorsports

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I was able to dive into the air dryer installation last night and although it was tight as hell under there, it went relatively well.

I didn't like the routing of the discharge airline as it was pulled rather taut, so I added about 6 inches to it using a compression coupler.
coach15.jpg

Here you can see just how buried the air dryer is up inside the chassis, and even with the tag tire/wheel removed, it is still lacking in accessibility which is why I just decided to replace it to avoid any future issues on the side of the road somewhere.
coach16.jpg

Coach was fired up, air pressure built and then shut off just before the governor purged the air from the dryer. I liberally sprayed the entire area where I had been working to investigate for air leaks and found none. I then pumped the brakes to drop my air pressure to approx. 100 PSI and let it built up to governed pressure and let it purge, then sprayed it down again and repeated the investigation. No leaks detected.
coach17.jpg


While I allowed the coach to sit for a while to verify the integrity of the air system, I went about cleaning tools and reinstalled the tag tire/wheel after reinstalling the Balance Master balancing ring. I grabbed my Snap-on 3/4" drive torque wrench.
coach18.jpg

Assembled it.
coach19.jpg

Set the value to 450 ft/lbs.
coach20.jpg

And torqued the wheel on. Then installed all 10 of the stainless steel lugnut covers and cleaned up around the rear of the coach.
coach21.jpg


At that point it had been exactly an hour and I had lost just over 3 PSI in that time. I can live with that as that is a pretty tight system by anyone's standards.

I checked on it this morning and in 12 hours it had lost approx. 20 PSI as it was sitting right at 100 PSI this morning. Yeah, it was a lot of work for a small air leak, but I am very pleased with the results of all that work.


Thanks for looking.
 

CGarage

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Two questions:

1) To identify air leaks, do you use spray bottle w soapy water?

2) What is torque spec on those lug covers? I don’t know much about coaches but my gosh, if owners damage a tire on a road trip, they will need to have some heavy duty tooling to make a repair possible!
 
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zmotorsports

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Two questions:

1) To identify air leaks, do you use spray bottle w soapy water?

2) What is torque spec on those lug covers? I don’t know much about coaches but my gosh, if owners damage a tire on a road trip, they will need to have some heavy duty tooling to make a repair possible!

1- Yes, a high concentration of soap to water in a spray bottle is the most effective way to find air leaks on these air systems. I recently purchased a pressurized/pump style of sprayer and it works well as long as I have room for the larger bottle, and it's a little heavier, so in tight confines, a standard spray bottle still works the best.


2- The lugnut covers themselves just press on over the lugnuts, so not torque on them. However, on the actual lugnuts, the torque spec is 450-475 ft/lbs.

Yes, if a problem on the road, most people don't have a 20-ton bottle jack or means to change a tire, this is where a good roadside assistance plan for these is not a bad idea and something I recommend.

That being said, whenever possible I just don't like people touching my stuff so I choose to pull the tires/wheels when needed and have all of the appropriate tools and equipment needed to safely do it in my home shop. Even when having new tires installed, I pull the tires/wheels in my shop and then take them to the shop for mounting & balancing, then back home to reinstall them. Whereas most people will drop their coach off at a commercial tire shop to have the work performed. Just one more variable I can control by doing it myself. Guess I'm funny that way. :dunno:
 

SilverJimmy

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Apr 14, 2012
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1,631
Location
Prescott/Flagstaff, AZ
Having watched many a truck stop “Tire-Monkey” zip a Budd wheel lugnut off with a 1” impact and then let said nut spin around two or three times inside a polished Alcoa wheel…. Ya, I did my own tire work on my tool trucks. I still have my 20 ton jack, tire irons and my Cheetah bead blaster but I did let a friend buy my truck tire balancer for his two Snap-On trucks. Like you I really try to do as much myself as I can, I’m just not as capable as you!
 
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zmotorsports

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Agree, the lack of care in the trades is making for sad times.

Ya know what really bothers me about the automotive trade in particular and you see on YouTube and mentioned almost everywhere is the poor pay and flat rate system. Yeah, I get that the pay could be better and flat rate is far from the ideal pay model. HOWEVER, what really bothers me is the lack of professionalism and piss poor quality of workmanship. IF someone gets to the point of standing head and shoulders above their peers, they can easily go to work for a shop that pays better and will pay them for more than just showing up and putting out **** workmanship. I know several shops in my area alone that pay by a blended system and one that does not use flat rate and is busy all the time and has several high-quality mechanics on staff. But I would bet dollars to donuts that the ones screaming the most are the ones unwilling to change or unwilling to continuously learn and progress in their field, they think by complaining alone the industry will bend to their will.

I also know there are similar industries out there requiring skilled mechanics that do not use the flat rate system and pay well, Industrial Maintenance as just one option. Maybe not six figures a year, but well enough to live a very comfortable life, have good benefits such as investment opportunities, health coverage and other "perks" in the hidden paycheck, but I still see all of the complaining online and it gets old. Hell, if I can do it, anyone can. I think I have more $$ in tools and equipment than the average mechanic working in any garage, but it takes time to fine tune one's skillset and learning is a daily task, not something you do as an apprentice and then you should be paid top pay, many places have a tiered payscale for a reason.

I don't mean to get down on the industry, but I want to scream at the top of my lungs "if you want to be paid as a professional, then start acting like one and putting out high quality and professional work!" I see it all too much, especially lately and it saddens me to see so many people down on the industry as a whole, yet unwilling to look in the mirror and make changes to the ONE thing they can control, themselves. I see too much entitlement in the industry, but that seems to be everywhere these days.


Sorry, rant over.
 

Xti04

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2016
Messages
2,313
Ya know what really bothers me about the automotive trade in particular and you see on YouTube and mentioned almost everywhere is the poor pay and flat rate system. Yeah, I get that the pay could be better and flat rate is far from the ideal pay model. HOWEVER, what really bothers me is the lack of professionalism and piss poor quality of workmanship. IF someone gets to the point of standing head and shoulders above their peers, they can easily go to work for a shop that pays better and will pay them for more than just showing up and putting out **** workmanship. I know several shops in my area alone that pay by a blended system and one that does not use flat rate and is busy all the time and has several high-quality mechanics on staff. But I would bet dollars to donuts that the ones screaming the most are the ones unwilling to change or unwilling to continuously learn and progress in their field, they think by complaining alone the industry will bend to their will.

I also know there are similar industries out there requiring skilled mechanics that do not use the flat rate system and pay well, Industrial Maintenance as just one option. Maybe not six figures a year, but well enough to live a very comfortable life, have good benefits such as investment opportunities, health coverage and other "perks" in the hidden paycheck, but I still see all of the complaining online and it gets old. Hell, if I can do it, anyone can. I think I have more $$ in tools and equipment than the average mechanic working in any garage, but it takes time to fine tune one's skillset and learning is a daily task, not something you do as an apprentice and then you should be paid top pay, many places have a tiered payscale for a reason.

I don't mean to get down on the industry, but I want to scream at the top of my lungs "if you want to be paid as a professional, then start acting like one and putting out high quality and professional work!" I see it all too much, especially lately and it saddens me to see so many people down on the industry as a whole, yet unwilling to look in the mirror and make changes to the ONE thing they can control, themselves. I see too much entitlement in the industry, but that seems to be everywhere these days.


Sorry, rant over.
Mike , my good friend Jeff who works for me started in 2007 at Audi as my apprentice. I showed him lots of shortcuts I had learned, but also taught him that there were thongs that were nonegotiable like torquing critical fasteners and spinning an engine 2 revolutions to make sure we did timing correctly etc. I left, and he went on and got good at what he did. He went to the BMW plant in SC and was their electrical diagnositc tech making factory repairs in cars while in production. He is an amazing tech and when he came back here last year started working for me. I pay him more than the dealership does becuase hes worth every penny. He takes a lot of pride in what we dp and how it gets done, and its rare to find that. The kids at the dealer now are all hourly and refuse to do flat rate. The dealer just keeps paying them, even though they are hourly, the work that comes out is piss poor. I hear tale after tale of cars misdiagnosed, parts cannon let loose on them, or not repaired correctly causing comebacks and other issues. He is pushing for them to do things right, but its an uphill battle if they dont have the pride in their work to see it done right.

we see it outside of automotive trades as well. Jeff had an Hvac issue last week where an ac unit was replaced at his house and the tech didnt replace a gas line and damn near blew the place up. Its a sad state to see people pushing off sub par work even though many charge top tier prices.
 

rd65

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Joined
Sep 29, 2017
Messages
2,770
Location
Granite Falls, WA
No one wants to put the work in these days. By that I mean working on themselves to make themselves better, effort to learn, to put in personal time and effort to learn and be good at your trade. I am so glad I am no longer working in the motorcycle/powersports industry any longer. It was hard enough to find decent employees back in the early 2000's, now I bet it is all but impossible. I am north of Seattle so bike shops are very seasonal with layoffs for off season.
 
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zmotorsports

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Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
21,400
Location
Northern Utah
Coming down off my rant, I will focus on last night's work on our coach.


Our Monaco Dynasty was optioned with the HWH air leveling system vs. hydraulic leveling jacks. Air leveling was on my "must have" list for this coach when we were looking to upgrade from our previous coach, a 1991 38' Beaver Contessa, that had air ride, but hydraulic leveling jacks. I seem to have some strong opinions on when coaches should have air leveling vs. the cheaper hydraulic leveling option, but let me just say I was able to find a coach that checked all the boxes on the "must have" list and nearly all on the "like to have" list.


I will give a quick preface on the how the system is designed to operate. The air springs under the coach support the weight of the rig and when in "travel" mode, the coach's air system provides the needed air to support the weight at each corner by going through ride height valves. These ride height valves do just that, they keep the coach at a certain ride height and as the coach goes through turns it will shed air from the high side and add to the low side to keep the coach as level as possible for ride comfort in these heavy rigs.

Now when you arrive at a campsite, or just stop for lunch, and want to level the coach after shutting it down, this is where the HWH system comes into play. There is also one made my Lippert that came along a few years later in the Monaco line, but I much prefer the HWH version.

The touchpad at the driver's seat is activated by selecting one of two modes, manual or automatic. In manual mode the system will show a low corner or side in yellow and you simply depress the "DOWN" button on the opposing side or end and air will be exhausted to bring the high side or end down. If the coach settles to the lowest point, then you would use the UP arrow on the low corner or end to add air to the corresponding air springs until all yellow lights are extinguished indicating the coach is level. In either manual or automatic mode, the system is designed to ignore the ride height valves and use the level placed usually somewhere in the middle of the coach, ours is in the middle bay, just above the ceiling lining and is relatively easy to access. I had to "tweak" the sensor a bit when we first purchased the coach because what the system saw as level was not quite level, but an easy adjustment.


In automatic mode it does much the same thing, but, you guessed it, automatically. The system will ignore the ride height valves and look at the high points and exhaust air until the high side or end comes down to match the other(s). It will continue to exhaust until the air springs are resting on their internal bumpstops and after a few seconds of no movement when exhausting, it will determine the coach is at its lowest point at that corner or end and then shift over to add air to the low corner or end. At first it will use the air in the coach's air tanks but when that pressure drops to approx. 60-65 PSI where the PPV (Pressure Protection Valves) won't allow any more air to be drawn from the coach's air reserve, then there is a little auxiliary air compressor that will come online to provide the air pressure to the low side or end air spring and it does this through the HWH air manifold which is often referred to as the six-pack manifold. There are six air solenoids in an aluminum manifold that control the flow of air to each axles. My coach has three of these six-pack manifolds, one for the steer axle, one for the drive axle and one for the tag axle. The HWH system directs air from this auxiliary air compressor to the corresponding valve to the corresponding air spring.

The system sounds complex and although it kind of is, it is also very simplistic if you break it down. The problem is, most people don't understand the sequence of operation nor how important it is that air lines go EXACTLY where they are designed to go and nowhere else. All too often I see online of people, or get phone calls from friends that have had their coaches into shops for work on their air system and now all of a sudden their air leveling is not functioning properly. It almost always comes down to an air line reconnected incorrectly.

If you've stayed with this far congratulations, although you're probably uninterested in the operation. :bounce:

Last August during our annual weeklong stay in Ouray, CO I noticed around day 5 that the front left corner of the coach had slightly dropped out of level. While my air suspension system is tight, I don't know of any rig that is 100% sealed from at least some air loss over time. Our coach will easily sit dead nuts level for about 4 days, but then over the next couple of days it will drop maybe about 3/8" at some point and need to be releveled, so on a 4 or 5+ day stay in one place the system needs to relevel. By this time the air in the coach's tanks has dropped to the point where no additional air can be moved from the tank(s) to the leveling system so it relies on the auxiliary air compressor to raise a low side or end. I noticed that the air compressor was running but not providing air to bring that corner up to level. I had to start the coach, build up air pressure and relevel the coach in which is remained level the remainder of the weeks stay.


This got my attention because many of the places we stay we will hop, skip and jump from campground to campground every few days and I don't usually get to the point where the system needs to relevel. We haven't been anywhere since where it needs to relevel, but since the coach was up on jackstands I wanted to check it out and see if my assumption was correct about what was failing or had failed.

Now let me cover the operation of the releveling system. In automatic mode the HWH system will wake up every 30-minutes, check the level based on the system's "black box" and if an adjustment is needed it will make the adjustment, if no adjustment is needed it merely goes back to sleep for another 30-minutes. This goes on the whole time the system is in the automatic mode. Knowing how tight my system is, many times I will just turn it off and kick it back on every few days to let the system confirm the level or adjust, but many people leave the system on automatic all the time. That is what it is designed for so no harm in doing so but many people's system is not as tight so their system may need to adjust the level once or twice a day.

Here is where the complexity of the system tricks many people up, but if you break it down it is actually quite a simple system. The auxiliary air compressor has an air line feeding the air leveling manifolds with the six-pack valves as well as a check valve to allow air pressure one way from the auxiliary air compressor, but not allow air pressure to flow out of the air leveling system back to the compressor.

It also has an electrical connector with two wires, one is a constant 12VDC through a 15-amp fuse. This goes to the supply side of the load side of the relay. It also has a switched 12VDC coming from the HWH controller. When this switched positive receives a signal from the HWH controller in either the manual or automatic mode, it will go through a normally closed (NC) pressure switch that is designed to open @ approx. 115 PSI to avoid over-pressuring the system, and then to the switched control side of the relay. Hope you're with me so far because this is where two things happen simultaneously but tricks people up.

When the solenoid engages there are two leads on the load side of the relay, one lead goes to the air compressor's motor (which is grounded through the chassis) and the other lead goes to a normally open (NO) air solenoid located at the bottom of the water separator/filter bowl. The sequence of operation is when the solenoid engages, the air compressor runs as well as the NO air solenoid located at the bottom the bowl will close. This air solenoid closing allows pressure to build in the system, push the check valve open and supply air to the six-pack air manifolds so it can distribute the needed air to the correct side or end of the coach. IF that air solenoid fails to close the small volume of air will merely dump out through the air solenoid and it will not allow pressure to be built. Then when the system reaches level OR the pressure switch is opened, it opens the control side of the circuit which opens the load side of the relay shutting off the air compressor's motor as well as removes power from the air solenoid allowing it to go back to its normally open status thus expelling any head pressure and moisture from the system so it is ready to start again upon the next cycle. Again, complex, but actually quite simplistic if you break it down component by component. I think what trips most people up as they look at the whole pie rather than piece by piece to see where there system is breaking down in the sequence of operation. Hope you are still with me.


My assumption when testing was that something was amiss with the air solenoid because I did not sense that it was not getting air to the six-pack manifolds when activated so that was where I wanted to begin my diagnosis.

I tested it under the coach, but without my wife to push the button on the dash in manual mode, I just used my Power Probe to provide power to the control side of the relay and test the system as a whole. Sure enough I was getting air coming out of the normally open air solenoid which should have been closed upon providing 12VDC.

Rather than try to tear it apart or go any further under the coach, I simply disconnected the air line as well as the two wires and removed the whole assembly from the coach and brought it to the bench.

I have a Viair compressor on mine at this point, but it was originally outfitted with a Thomas air compressor from the factory. When we purchased the coach back in early 2007 the Thomas air compressor had failed and it was 4X the cost of a Viair so I sourced a Viair with similar cfm output and power requirements. I then fabricated a small cover to enclose the system as it resides just over the steer axle right out in the elements, which is probably why the first air compressor failed in only 5 years. This one has been in service for 19 years now and only started to have issues late last summer, so the enclosure must have aided in its survival. Some people state that the Thomas air compressor is a little quieter than the Viair, but the Viair is a popular choice on the Monaco forums. Some models have the compressor located in the engine bay which is right under the bedroom so in those cases maybe replacing with the Thomas would be a worthwhile cost, but ours is way up front and undetectable from the bedroom if the system is in automatic mode. Maybe it is aided in lower decibals by the cover, but it cannot be heard from the bedroom.

If you're still with me, wow, you've stayed through my overview. :oops:
coach31.jpg

I connected the air solenoid alone to battery voltage just to see if I could hear anything and I could hear a faint audible click, but by applying air to the solenoid it never went to the closed state. I am sure I could find a replacement, but first I wanted to see if I could disassemble and save this one.
coach32.jpg

I didn't have a small enough spanner wrench for the small 1/8" holes in the solenoid's body, so I improvised by using two punches and a prybar to unthread the base from the stem.
coach33.jpg

Yeah, that can be problematic.
coach34.jpg

After some time running wire brushes and chasing with air through the various parts of the valve, I was able to clean it up enough to easily move back and forth inside the stem.
coach35.jpg

Time to thread it back together and give it a test. Sure enough air passes through until powered on, which closes the valve, and stops the air flow.
coach36.jpg

Now to reassemble the unit as a whole but I noticed a couple of O-rings that I wanted to replace.
coach37.jpg

This one goes on the bottom of the bowl and where the air solenoid threads into.
coach38.jpg

I assembled everything back to original as well as removed the check valve to ensure it was functioning correctly as well. Then tested the unit as an assembly to ensure it will work properly when installed back in the coach.
coach39.jpg

With everything functioning perfectly, I coated the electrical connections with some NOCO battery gel and cleaned up my tools and mess. It is now ready to reinstall.
coach40.jpg



If you followed along, thank you and I hope that I explained it well enough to follow along and understand the system's operation.


Thank you for following along.
 
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zmotorsports

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Oct 20, 2009
Messages
21,400
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Northern Utah
Mike , my good friend Jeff who works for me started in 2007 at Audi as my apprentice. I showed him lots of shortcuts I had learned, but also taught him that there were thongs that were nonegotiable like torquing critical fasteners and spinning an engine 2 revolutions to make sure we did timing correctly etc. I left, and he went on and got good at what he did. He went to the BMW plant in SC and was their electrical diagnositc tech making factory repairs in cars while in production. He is an amazing tech and when he came back here last year started working for me. I pay him more than the dealership does becuase hes worth every penny. He takes a lot of pride in what we dp and how it gets done, and its rare to find that. The kids at the dealer now are all hourly and refuse to do flat rate. The dealer just keeps paying them, even though they are hourly, the work that comes out is piss poor. I hear tale after tale of cars misdiagnosed, parts cannon let loose on them, or not repaired correctly causing comebacks and other issues. He is pushing for them to do things right, but its an uphill battle if they dont have the pride in their work to see it done right.

we see it outside of automotive trades as well. Jeff had an Hvac issue last week where an ac unit was replaced at his house and the tech didnt replace a gas line and damn near blew the place up. Its a sad state to see people pushing off sub par work even though many charge top tier prices.

No one wants to put the work in these days. By that I mean working on themselves to make themselves better, effort to learn, to put in personal time and effort to learn and be good at your trade. I am so glad I am no longer working in the motorcycle/powersports industry any longer. It was hard enough to find decent employees back in the early 2000's, now I bet it is all but impossible. I am north of Seattle so bike shops are very seasonal with layoffs for off season.

I agree with both of you and it's sad to see where we are today.

These days it is all about what the job (or company) can do for me as soon as I walk in the door. No one stops to ask what do I bring? What value do I provide or what skill do I have to share? It's all me, me, me and screw the ones signing the checks, whether that's a small shop or major corporation. Pride in workmanship is almost gone, yet people are demanding the highest pay. While I do think what the economy is doing sets the tone for consumerism and that what things cost effect the overall job market, I do not think what things cost are solely dependent on what people should make for a wage. They are two different variables.

I learned early on that I had a champaign appetite yet had a beer income. So I learned that I needed to do two things to get to where I wanted to be, first was make more money and second was control my costs. This sounds so simple yet so many people entering our workforce have not and will not even consider they have control over more than they think they do. A job flipping burgers at McDonalds was NEVER intended to support a family or lifestyle. In the free market system it was designed to be a starting point and stepping stone to more. A job to have in High School that allowed flexible scheduling and time to "play" while you're young, then time to grow up and take on more responsibilities and accountability for our own success and future. This is where either secondary education of some sort or simply getting into a job where on the job training is available in which a person could make the conscious decision about the path for them.

This system had worked and worked well for many, many years and even generations. Unfortunately, somewhere we got derailed into the thinking that just complaining about the system because we should have everything will change it and then it becomes a person's character to simply complain about everything instead of taking an active role in changing their life.

Without getting too political I will try to give my perspective. I think our workforce today has been spoon fed the "illusion" that they are great and special and all that nonsense their whole lives so when they hit the workforce they simply do not comprehend that "they" could be the actual problem. Then it is compounded by the whole social media thing where everyone makes certain aspects of the trade look like gravy work, but they don't realize there are **** days as well as those gravy days. The work comes from working through the **** days and trying to figure out where we ourselves can improve, learn or become better. Instead they just complain that the whole system is broken and they can't make a living.

When someone goes on to say how "evil" those business owners are or corporations are who are making millions, they are already in the pity mindset so they believe that **** rather than looking inward for solutions.

Sorry again for another rant. I'm really getting sidetracked today for some reason. :dunno:
 

Finallygotit

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Messages
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Tucson, AZ
When someone goes on to say how "evil" those business owners are or corporations are who are making millions, they are already in the pity mindset so they believe that **** rather than looking inward for solutions.
That's the point where I ask them, "So what are you going to do about it?" "Other than ***** about something you have absolutely no control over!"

:shoot5:


:beer:
 
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zmotorsports

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
21,400
Location
Northern Utah
That's the point where I ask them, "So what are you going to do about it?" "Other than ***** about something you have absolutely no control over!"

:shoot5:


:beer:

Exactly Dan.

Unfortunately, complaining is about all most will ever do because to look inward and ask yourself what do "I" need to do takes work and also doesn't allow them to be a victim. Being a victim is easy, doing something to change that mindset requires work and effort.
 
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