100 year old doug fir vs modern spruce/pine/fir

TOWLC

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Wasn't sure of the best place to post this, so I went with the woodworking forum.

I'm in the process of restoring a 100 year old lumber yard that closed in the 90's and was turned into retail shops. I'll post more about that in another thread at another time, but thought some of you wood workers would be able to appreciate this pic. Every time I grab a piece of the original doug fir this building was built with the weight is amazing compared to modern SPF framing lumber. The grain of then vs now says it all.

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john.k

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Also called oregon pine here ,and supposedly rot resistant due to high resin content .........my old house has the roof framed in oregon pine ,seems very sparseley timbered compared to modern construction,but it has withstood the storms of more than 100 years
 

john.k

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Incidentally ,back in the 70s ,I used to buy a lot WW2 surplus truck parts ......the big crates were made of 12'' wide pine boards without a single knot ........very prone to rot stored in the weather ,though
 
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TOWLC

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Also called oregon pine here ,and supposedly rot resistant due to high resin content .........my old house has the roof framed in oregon pine ,seems very sparseley timbered compared to modern construction,but it has withstood the storms of more than 100 years
Yes, very rot resistant. This place had leaks that have leaked for years and years, and all of it is solid as a rock outside of a few places termites got to (also where the long time leaks were). Termites won't touch any of it except where there is consistent water. But the other parts that have had consistent water exposure are as solid as new once they dry.

This building has withstood some serious storms just since I've owned it (3.5 years) that have taken out other buildings near it. One recent one was a tornado that went just beside us. Took half the roof off of a restaurant that was built in the last 10-15 years. Inspector closed it down and said the entire building needed torn down because it was too dangerous. I watched tree branches flying through the air outside. Had a couple pieces of metal come loose on the roof. That was it.
 

neophyte

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Supposedly much tighter growth rings is the difference between old growth, and newer growth soft woods.
The same does not necessarily hold true for hardwoods though.
As far as the resin content goes, even 200 year old wood, that was felled 200+ years ago, will gum up blades and cutters.
 
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TOWLC

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This doug fir slab was included with the property. Owner said it was delivered as a gift on the top of a semi load of lumber being delivered back in the 50's or 60's. It sat outside the store for 50 years or so before being moved inside. I was told someone counted the rings one time and it was either 200 or 250.

We're building a loft apartment into the second floor for us to manage the place from. Going to use it as a kitchen island/breakfast bar. It's 5' diameter and 10" thick.

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four.cycle

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^ The older example you displayed in your first piece was most likely milled prior to 1970.
The younger, newer piece (on the left) was clearly milled much later.
The tree the older example came from may have been a large tree - perhaps 30-40 inch DBH (diameter breast height).
By the time a Douglas Fir has reached that size, it's sloughed off all of its lower limbs - in some cases up to 60-80 feet above ground.
That's where your "clear grain" Douglas Fir came from.
But those mills don't exist any more. There were three of them left: one up in Marysville, one down on the Columbia near Troutdale, and another somewhere (I can't recall.) They don't mill wood of that size today, as a general rule. The mills are no longer operating, and you have to have a special kind of guy to run a piece of wood through a saw that's six feet in diameter - it's no place for rookies. Most all those guys are dead now.
So most of the wood you see on the duals being hauled up and down Hwy 101 here is generally in the 14" - 18" DBH range - much smaller wood. The mills are now all set up with laser sighting and most of the operations are automatic - a computer sizes up the log and determines the optimum amount of cut lumber that can be extracted and goes to work. Not nearly as much waste now - and the chaff all goes into MDF panels now.

Another thing which comes into play is our climate and weather patterns: Your older wood grew in a cooler, wetter environment here in the west prior to 1970.
Since then, things have started to dry up a bit. Summers are longer here. Precipitation and snowpack levels are down. Temperatures are up.
So of course your growth ring patterns are going to look much different.
(Growth rings are generally spaced more widely on younger wood than on older.)

A couple points: Claims about "logging old growth" are ********. The mills simply don't exist to handle giant pieces of wood any more. You can cut the tree down, but good luck finding a mill in which to cut it up. A lot of noise is made about a non-existent problem.

IF you're in the market for old, clear-grain top-quality lumber, check out any number of "salvage" outfits that make it their business to reclaim and "recondition" that stuff and resell it. "Earthwise Salvage" is but one of many outfits who are doing this. There are several of them in the Seattle area, because we have a LOT of old buildings constructed with wood framing that were built around the turn of the century.
 
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TOWLC

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Yes, definitely milled before 1970. Place was built in 1919. The pic below is an political ad for a 1920 governor candidate. Found that under many layers of wall (sheetrock, plywood, paneling, etc.) and behind the tar paper.

The wood may have come from your area. I know they told me they got their wood from somewhere in the NW.

I'm not trying to restore 100% original, but have been saving/reusing as much original lumber as possible and where necessary. Some stuff (like rotten bottom plates) have had to go back with modern lumber. But thanks for tips on locating more if I do end up needing some more.

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jar944

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Also called oregon pine here ,and supposedly rot resistant due to high resin content .........my old house has the roof framed in oregon pine ,seems very sparseley timbered compared to modern construction,but it has withstood the storms of more than 100 years

The current Doug Fir is not rot resistant at all, its mostly sapwood.
 

dutchgray

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Some 2x4" I was using in the last week was right around 4 growth rings per inch. I can remember using timber with 1/32" growth rings occasionally when I started in 2004, 2 decades gas really seen a decline in timber quality available over here in the UK.
 

four.cycle

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The wood may have come from your area. I know they told me they got their wood from somewhere in the NW.
^ It is an established fact in the world of silviculture that Pacific County, Washington is the fastest Douglas Fir growing region on the planet.
(There's a reason that the Weyerhauser Company used to own almost the entire damn county. They sold it off to another multi-national conglomerate years ago.)

* Because of nutty tariffs, however, a lot of homes in the U.S. have been built with Canadian lumber over the course of the last 30-40 years.
 

BigMike782

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I got some 1x12 white pine from the house of a hoarder that I am guessing was at least 100 years old or older.
I ripped it into 3/8" square stop for stop for the glass in my kitchen cabinets and it cut like butter and stayed arrow straight....... a real joy to work with.
 
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TOWLC

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I have a 20' 1x2 that was left here. No idea how old, but straight as an arrow as well. I don't think you can even buy a 20' 1x2 anywhere these days.
 
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