My Shop Internet Service Plan - Advise please

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

I am looking into what it would take to provide reliable internet service to my shop.
Roughly 250' from house, have to measure yet from current fiber service / hub. Way to many trees between house to do a wifi transmitter.


These for Converters, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FBKZN48J/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Then this for pre-terminated fiber: https://www.amazon.com/Outdoor-Armo...Installed/dp/B0DSJ1VS3V/?tag=atomicindus08-20

What size conduit to run this fiber in?

Once these are in I can install a hub in the shop and stream just like in the house.
House system is an existing eero mesh 3 node system that is hard wired back to a hub at fiber entry.

Plan is to place another eero node in shop for ring cameras, security sensors and internet service.
Is it this simple or am I on the wrong track?

 

[HogDude]

I would ask the current fiber service provider their cost to run a line. Keeping in mind sometimes the techs are willing to offer an "off the record" way to DIY.
At least you'd have a cost comparison for whatever else presents itself as an option.

 

[grabeb]

Probably won't help you as my shop is only about 20-30ft from house and is wired back to house, but I kept fighting issues with my old mesh setup and went to TP Link's BE63 Mesh setup and am beyond thrilled with it. Being as the house has lathe plaster walls and my detached garage/shop, all my pucks are plugged into the network via a decent size network switch to create a wired backhaul setup and so far I have perfect mesh network everywhere. No more does it stick to one access point that's out of distance and fail to grab the closer one. The other bonus is I can separate all the lower bandwidth items, like garage opener, smart plugs, etc, to the 2.4 channel.

What might help is a friend who does IT work said he uses a Bridge setup, 2 radios that talk to each other. His shop is probably 50-100yrds from house. He has one radio on a pole by house and one on a pole by shop.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

I would ask the current fiber service provider their cost to run a line. Keeping in mind sometimes the techs are willing to offer an "off the record" way to DIY.
At least you'd have a cost comparison for whatever else presents itself as an option.

Small rural phone company, all the installation was contracted out. They don't do any installation of the fiber, really just service the installed system.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Probably won't help you as my shop is only about 20-30ft from house and is wired back to house, but I kept fighting issues with my old mesh setup and went to TP Link's BE63 Mesh setup and am beyond thrilled with it. Being as the house has lathe plaster walls and my detached garage/shop, all my pucks are plugged into the network via a decent size network switch to create a wired backhaul setup and so far I have perfect mesh network everywhere. No more does it stick to one access point that's out of distance and fail to grab the closer one. The other bonus is I can separate all the lower bandwidth items, like garage opener, smart plugs, etc, to the 2.4 channel.

What might help is a friend who does IT work said he uses a Bridge setup, 2 radios that talk to each other. His shop is probably 50-100yrds from house. He has one radio on a pole by house and one on a pole by shop.

As stated the bridge type systems will not work as to many trees, they need a clear line of sight to work properly.

I'm happy with my eero system, won't be upgrading it until it is not serviceable, so I will be expanding that system into the shop.

 

[grabeb]

As stated the bridge type systems will not work as to many trees, they need a clear line of sight to work properly.

I'm happy with my eero system, won't be upgrading it until it is not serviceable, so I will be expanding that system into the shop.

Can you dig a small trench and lay some direct burial cable? I would think that would be the best. Eero is a good setup as well, AI recommended mine for the wired backhaul, which is why i went that direction. IT friend agreed. I had nest before.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Can you dig a small trench and lay some direct burial cable? I would think that would be the best. Eero is a good setup as well, AI recommended mine for the wired backhaul, which is why i went that direction. IT friend agreed. I had nest before.

The cable I linked to is direct burial, for sure would be easier.

12" deep good for fiber?

 

[grabeb]

Sorry, was trying to do something else when I red your question and apparently skipped some. While I don't have experience with fiber, I'm not sure that would be necessary.... though I also prefer to overkill. Cat6 would likely get you well over 1g speeds, i think up to 10g at around 100 meters. Most modem switches and routers don't really provide much more than 1g speeds anyway, which is still way overkill unless you are moving serious, very serious data.

 

[grabeb]

The cable I linked to is direct burial, for sure would be easier.

12" deep good for fiber?

From horror stories I've read i would put fiber in conduit. I know I'd dig into it off not or I'd get a dog that would.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

I'm gonna do fiber, as since we have been in this house we have had multiple lightening strikes cause issues.

Cat6 in the house system, but across the yard I will be doing fiber.

 

[aandpdan]

Go with the fiber, the lightning strikes are a good enough reason. The pre-terminated cables have a pulling eye already attached that is just under 3/4" in diameter. I'd go with 1" PVC if you choose to encase it. It is direct burial so it is not really necessary.

The deeper the better when burying cable. 12" is more than enough but you'll probably encounter some tree roots that are shallower than that.

Good luck with the project.

 

[dcg9381]

That fiber seems to have standard "LC" connectors which are 12.6mm, about 1/2". I'd run 1" conduit just to be sure.
Conduit and fiber would be my plan all day long. Fiber doesn't care about cold, so 12" is fine. The big advantage to fiber is no conductivity with a nearby lightening strike and length isn't an issue.
Converters/transceivers and fiber appear to be compatible.

• Fiber Type (Multimode): The ADnet media converters include Multi-Mode (MM) SFP transceivers, which match the Multimode ERSTICKT fiber optic cable.
  Tiendamia
  
  
• Connector Type (LC Duplex): The converters use LC fiber connections, and the cable is equipped with LC to LC uniboot connectors.
• Optical Wavelength (850nm / OM3-OM4): The media converters operate at an 850nm wavelength (1000Base-SX). The 50/125µm OM3/OM4 core of the cable is highly optimized for 850nm transmission.
  Tiendamia
  
  
• Speed and Distance Compatibility: The media converters run at 1 Gigabit speeds (1000Mbps) and are rated to push that signal up to 550 meters (approx. 1,800 feet) over multimode fiber. Since the cable you linked is 100 meters (328 feet), you are well within the functional limits and will experience zero signal degradation.

 

[Blk88GT]

You're on the right track. You could do CAT6 but should have lightning arrestors at each end.

3/4" conduit should be fine but the pre-terminated end would be the deciding factor.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Go with the fiber, the lightning strikes are a good enough reason. The pre-terminated cables have a pulling eye already attached that is just under 3/4" in diameter. I'd go with 1" PVC if you choose to encase it. It is direct burial so it is not really necessary.

The deeper the better when burying cable. 12" is more than enough but you'll probably encounter some tree roots that are shallower than that.

Good luck with the project.

I will have a bobcat and trencher onsite to do my Water, Power & this Fiber trench.
So roots will not be an issue, backhoe and chainsaw as a back up if I hit something large.

On that note water & power in same trench? Water @ 48" power at 24"?

 

[finn]

I just got one of those over the existing electric service devices to get a reasonable signal in my garage which is 200-250 feet from the house.


Works fine for what I do, although I do have to reset it occasionally if we have a lot of thunderstorms and power interruptions.

I can get Sirius XM, stream TV, and get a signal on my phone.

My service provider installed it. Was supposed to be $65 but they never billed me.

 

[carlaisle]

Check with whomever needs to sign off on your installation. Some locations frown on shared trenches, some don't care as long as certain clearances are maintained. I would run them side by side rather than one on top of the other. Whichever needs service will always be on the bottom.

 

[shade]

Drop fiber
Get a 10g switch at each end
Something like this
it uses SFP+ so you can use fiber or ethernet
You will need to buy the transceivers for each port which kind of *****, but the transceivers are like $20 a piece

Amazon.com

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Drop fiber
Get a 10g switch at each end
Something like this
it uses SFP+ so you can use fiber or ethernet
You will need to buy the transceivers for each port which kind of *****, but the transceivers are like $20 a piece

Amazon.com

I won't need that much connectivity on the shop end and there is NO way I will ever need 10g out there.
1 Ethernet port for the Eero Wifi inside building and if more is needed I will run a smaller much cheaper switch off the Eero port.

 

[captaindiode]

Fiber is good. We just ran it between buildings at church. We were advised to use terminal blocks on the ends. Typically you don't want to risk damage to the ends of the fiber. So the go into the yerminal block, then you put short fiber patch cords to your media converters. Something like below, but this is for 4 pair.

Also, you have to cross the fiber (TX to RX) or it will not work.

GINTOOYUN Fiber Optical Terminal Junction Box，4-Port Fiber Panel Box Desktop Place FC LC Adapters for FTTH,FTTO,FTTD https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08HSXVHHQ?tag=atomicindus08-20


We got our fiber from LANshack. We got an extra pair in case of damage. We also went with gel filled. It has been flawless.

 

[anythingyoucanimagine]

I won't need that much connectivity on the shop end and there is NO way I will ever need 10g out there.
1 Ethernet port for the Eero Wifi inside building and if more is needed I will run a smaller much cheaper switch off the Eero port.

IT person commenting:
My wife and I are building a shed/workshop right now at our new property/house so I'm going through the same questions and things you are. I would 1000% run fiber so you can run all three (power, water, fiber) in same trench. You cannot run a 250-ft span of copper cat-5/6/7 next to high voltage lines. You'd have to be 4-6 feet away from the high voltage so that's a second trench. That's dumb. Just run fiber so you can do all three (water, power, ethernet) in the same ditch.

Have you run conduit before? Just run it and worry about your connections (glue) so it is water tight. You can save a lot that way because you won't need direct-burial cables/fiber. When you are done use a "swiffer" (those things you use to dust around the house) and tie your pull string to it. Then put a shop vac at the other end and it'll **** it right into the vacuum every bit of 250-feet. If the pull string is wound too tight or binds, you can start with fishing line, then switch to a bigger pull string (or rope for electrical wires).

There is SFP and SFP+ connections. SFP is 1gbe and sfp+ is 10gbe. Go with SFP+ (10GbE) because it is reverse compatible down to 1GbE (gigabit). The cost --I don't know. SFP might even cost more than SFP+ because no one uses gigabit anymore and I'd have to Google where to buy SFP connectors.

I'd suggest using something like a Cisco SG300-10MPP switch. They are old and super cheap so buy it used on eBay or Marketplace. I have a bunch of those switches. They are ROCK SOLID and work to the point that you forget they are even there. They are gigabit switches and the MPP is PoE (Power over Ethernet) on steroids. They make a sg300-10P, a 10-PP and a 10MPP. The 10MPP is just PoE++ on all ports. It will power access points, LED spotlights, cameras, etc. Run 2x ---RUN 4x, always have backups --Run 2x fiber connections to ports #9 and #10 (SFP ports but order/buy SFP+ connectors), then leave the other two as backup "just in case". That will give you 8x other copper RJ45 gigabit, PoE++ ports to do whatever else you want.

Have you done this before? There are different types of fiber cables. Just buy something --if you have a 250ft run, buy 300ft and leave service loops at each end. The fiber comes and it'll have little stubs on them. Then you need to plug the terminations into transceivers at each end. Buy SFP+ stuff. I learned back when we had to cut and grind and polish fiber terminations. Today you just buy it to-length on Monoprice or something. Just watch your bend radius and keep the ends clean. No problem running fiber in a trench next to high voltage and water. (I don't know where you are but depth for water and freezing)... You absolutely do not need to spend the cash on direct burial fiber if you are not burying it in dirt.

Good luck!

 

[dcg9381]

I'd suggest using something like a Cisco SG300-10MPP switch.

Don't you have to "speak cisco" to configure these?
Looks like this one has a UI, but it's probably a bit complicated for most people... Unless it's single VLAN and hot PoE out of the box.

 

[Hank11]

Most places burying electrical and water in the same trench is a code violation. And generally just a bad idea by itself, codes or no codes. Even with a lot of separation between the two and the trench it is still a bad idea.

 

[anythingyoucanimagine]

to @dcg9381 It is a super easy web GUI, dhcp, easy easy easy. No "cisco speak" required. Very easy. No it is not PoE "hot" out of the box. You have to use default user/pw to click the checkboxes for each port to enable the PoE.

@Hank11 I don't want to give out bad advice. I don't know code stuff. I was referencing the interference that happens when you run high and low voltage (edit: copper) together/parallel or close proximity. I am doing a small shop/outbuilding in my new house/property and I was planning on running water, (still trying to figure out if I can legally do water and drain --or just outside grey water drain for a sink/basin), power and Ethernet/Fiber in different trenches. Did not mean to endorse any code violations, I was simply trying to point out that running fiber close to high voltage will not introduce any interference.

 

[pcmeiners]

You're on the right track. You could do CAT6 but should have lightning arrestors at each end.

Arrestors on both ends works sometimes, a lightning strike close by will fry cat 6 and connected devices. Even shielded cat6 will not stop lightning, the Faraday effect of the shielding will not work with a high potential charge traveling over the wire. With a nearby hit, the shielding becomes charged, which can not dissipate the charge fast enough, the charge then jumps to the copper pairs and anything connected to the wire pairs gets hit. As to the arrestors they are easily overwhelmed, with a very high potential the lightning jumps over/through anything..... arrestors, switches, computers, people etc in seeking a ground.

 

[u2slow]

Cat5E is all I have to my shop and does everything I need. No lightning protection.

 

[Sumboodie]

As stated the bridge type systems will not work as to many trees, they need a clear line of sight to work properly.

I'm happy with my eero system, won't be upgrading it until it is not serviceable, so I will be expanding that system into the shop.

What is "to many trees"?

 

[u2slow]

Metal siding and/or roof are worse for blocking signal than trees.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

What is "to many trees"?

Not sure what the answer is for too many, but the line of sight I would have 6-8 to go through. It won’t work for me.

 

[Sumboodie]

Not sure what the answer is for too many, but the line of sight I would have 6-8 to go through. It won’t work for me.

Mine goes through a sheetmetal building that blocks cell signal somehow but not wifi and trees ok.

 

[nmjwolf]

I did the same thing - put the fiber in 3/4" conduit - it pulled 150' super easy.

Fiber​

Media Convert

Then once converted back to ethernet in the shop I plugged into a router set to bridge mode - works great

 

[Carchie]

You are absolutely on the right track. Fiber is the gold standard for detached shops because it won't carry a lightning strike back to your house like copper Cat6 will. For conduit size, don't go smaller than 1-inch or even 1.25-inch PVC. The fiber cable itself is tiny, but the pre-terminated plastic pulling eye and connectors are bulky and can easily get jammed in smaller pipe bends.

 

[Metal-Marc]

Cat6 would likely get you well over 1g speeds

Coper wiring in between buildings is a big no-no.

From horror stories I've read i would put fiber in conduit.

This.

You could do CAT6 but should have lightning arrestors at each end.

In theory it works, but in practice it doesn't. Proper lightning arrestors are expensive and you'd better have a proper ground system in both ends. cf the Motorola Gound Bible.

Most places burying electrical and water in the same trench is a code violation.

Yup, but fiber optic is neither. It's light.

Cat5E is all I have to my shop and does everything I need. No lightning protection.

You do you but no ones cares if you fry your electronics one day.

Not sure what the answer is for too many, but the line of sight I would have 6-8 to go through. It won’t work for me.

Have you tried it? Right now, that's what I'm using to have Internet to my garage and there's a shed full of stuff and about 4-5 cords of wood piled to the ceiling and the signal goes through no problem.

Fiber is the gold standard for detached shops because it won't carry a lightning strike back to your house like copper Cat6 will.

This. It's worth repeating.

 

[Hank11]

OP mentioned buring electrical, water and fiber in the same trench. Not a problem with the fiber on top of the water, but I would not run electrical and water in the same trench ever.

 

[u2slow]

Fiber is the gold standard for detached shops because it won't carry a lightning strike back to your house like copper Cat6 will.

And immediately up until 'affordable' fibre, copper was used. Look at how much copper is hanging from your local power/tel poles.

Lightning would vapourize a cat 6 run before it gets to your house.

The bonding path of your electrical system is the lower-resistance path anyway (assuming a powered building.)

 

[BurtEggley]

cat 5, 5e and 6 is good up to 330'. I worked on a cisco certification once. It was all command line driven. Maybe some have gui interfaces. All one needs is a good switch to share the home Internet with the shop. These days given a choice between rural copper DSL providers and starlink, Starlink is going to be the best performance. I have several staff who remote to the office to do AutoCad work, or accounting and Starlink works really well for them. Fiber works well too but unless the house has fiber or fiber/cable to begin with, why set up 10gb when the whole house is 250 MB down and 50 MB up? If a conduit is used, new line can easily be pulled thru it. Just keep the bends down to minumum, or put access boxed in between to pull between points. Vacuum cleaner, piece of plastic bag, a spool of line. **** the piece of plastic bag tied to the line thru the conduit, then pull the cable with the line.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

cat 5, 5e and 6 is good up to 330'. I worked on a cisco certification once. It was all command line driven. Maybe some have gui interfaces. All one needs is a good switch to share the home Internet with the shop. These days given a choice between rural copper DSL providers and starlink, Starlink is going to be the best performance. I have several staff who remote to the office to do AutoCad work, or accounting and Starlink works really well for them. Fiber works well too but unless the house has fiber or fiber/cable to begin with, why set up 10gb when the whole house is 250 MB down and 50 MB up? If a conduit is used, new line can easily be pulled thru it. Just keep the bends down to minumum, or put access boxed in between to pull between points. Vacuum cleaner, piece of plastic bag, a spool of line. **** the piece of plastic bag tied to the line thru the conduit, then pull the cable with the line.

House does already have fiber service.

I will likely move forward with my plan as mentioned above.

Fiber & power come from two different locations. So likely 2 trenches.

Water is still being thunk on, don’t need it out there & would only be a frost free yard hydrant at corner of shop. I may wait and see if I want it and it can always be added at a later time. Well is close to the power feed but I can run the trench parallel to it easily enough in the future if deemed I want / need it.