1929 South Bend Working Lathe Found but not familiar with these any ID

[bobbuilder440]

Just wondering if someone can help ID this for me and let me know what it might be valued at. It does work but needs oiling and a new belt.

 

[hudstr]

It is what some people refer to as a "Wide 9" with overhead silent chain drive. South bend made many different 9" swing size models over the years so I've seen people refer to these as wide 9" because they are wider and than the workshop 9" models sold during the same time period in the 1920-30's. On the left hand side cover there should be a tag with the model number. If it is missing you can either pay Grizzly $25 to get a picture of the build data card using the serial number (although it just might be a line in a notebook for the really old lathes), or you can figure it out by looking in the old catalogs and identify it by the bed length and features.

Value can vary a lot with location, supply and demand. I'd guess $500-$800 depending on if there is any tooling that goes with it.

 

[bobbuilder440]

It is what some people refer to as a "Wide 9" with overhead silent chain drive. South bend made many different 9" swing size models over the years so I've seen people refer to these as wide 9" because they are wider and than the workshop 9" models sold during the same time period in the 1920-30's. On the left hand side cover there should be a tag with the model number. If it is missing you can either pay Grizzly $25 to get a picture of the build data card using the serial number (although it just might be a line in a notebook for the really old lathes), or you can figure it out by looking in the old catalogs and identify it by the bed length and features.

Value can vary a lot with location, supply and demand. I'd guess $500-$800 depending on if there is any tooling that goes with it.

There is a lot of tooling. Was looking on ebay and it seemed like some of the chucks sell for $200 or so each. Some of the random dies i pulled out and looked up were listed and sold at around $50-80 each and there had to be a box of 20 of those. Plus I didn't even open a lot of stuff. Everything on it seems original-- the electrical switch works etc. I guess was his father in laws who worked as the head machinist / technician for seattles streetlights. passed down to him.

I didn't know where to look for model number so thanks. Was a quick visit with the guy going back to dive deeper into it. is it something I should absolutely make room for in my garage and they're something once you use it youll wonder how you lived without one? or is it not worth giving up that space to other storage?

 

[RoninB4]

-What is most important for machine evaluation is the condition it's in. Bed wear, headstock bearing condition (noisy?), and whether all speeds and feeds function as they should or not. You should also inspect the "back/bull" gear for damaged or missing teeth. Too many examples of this from inexperienced users trying to lock the spindle for chuck removal. Rotate the gears for inspection. Are you buying or flipping this lathe? Location is also important for estimating the price.

 

[bobbuilder440]

-What is most important for machine evaluation is the condition it's in. Bed wear, headstock bearing condition (noisy?), and whether all speeds and feeds function as they should or not. You should also inspect the "back/bull" gear for damaged or missing teeth. Too many examples of this from inexperienced users trying to lock the spindle for chuck removal. Rotate the gears for inspection. Are you buying or flipping this lathe? Location is also important for estimating the price.

location is california bay area. And I would keep it but I have a small garage so I wouldnt want a total project if it is going to need rebuild etc. Or if you think its better to start smaller I would maybe ideally find one that is smaller but free for me is a nice deal.

I messaged a guy on ebay he told me this one is an earlier 9a model and less sought after.

'Because it’s the older version of a southbend 9a. It changes the game. In whole or in parts they are worth less. Never parted out a older southbend so I don’t know how many people are looking for parts You need to be careful using this listing you tagged me on for a price comparison. Because what you may not understand here is my bed was the perfect common length for selling to the market. The bed length is important for the main shaft.You need to search more on the older southbends in whole or parts and see what they did in price.Just shooting from the hip, I would say to keep it whole . And sell it that way. But it’s worth more than 500 - 800. That’s low but I’m guessing a little more than 1k .But I would keep researching older southbend prices.

 

[paulsomlo]

I would value that somewhere between $300 and $500. As far as tooling, in my experience, it's worth very little - generally, what you'll find is that the chucks are worn out and the rest of the stuff is just buckets of detritus. Random "dies" at $50 - $80 each? I'd have to see those, but I'm very skeptical.

If you have tooling that's new in the original box, then yes, the South Bend people will go ape **** over it - it'll bring big prices on ebay. But I've owned two 9" SB lathes now, and my experience is that the chucks are long past their prime and the buckets of stuff that come with it are worth very little, contrary to the seller's estimation.

 

[bobbuilder440]

meant to say taps. large taps made in USA vintage taps. I sell on ebay al the time on certain items like old machinery yeah i dont really know how to price the parts but on taps and dies if they're made in USA in decent shape and like 3/4" or bigger they are prob worth at least 30$ each

 

[RoninB4]

location is california bay area. And I would keep it but I have a small garage so I wouldnt want a total project if it is going to need rebuild etc.

-By reading between the lines of your posts I'll presume that your experience level is not sufficient for rebuilding a lathe. Your small garage would also get filled with components for at least a few months. A South Bend is usually an overpriced, worn out machine that has a devoted following from brand name recognition.

Or if you think its better to start smaller I would maybe ideally find one that is smaller

-Smaller is not always better, some of the tiny imported lathes are almost clumsy to use because your hands tend to bump the controls while operating. I stopped using mine when I bought a larger/better made lathe.

but free for me is a nice deal.

-Free? Yeah that's unlikely to happen. Your budget will usually decide what you should consider. With machinery you usually get what you're willing to pay for if it's in operational condition. Determine your budget and your expectations for the work you plan to do.

I messaged a guy on ebay he told me this one is an earlier 9a model and less sought after.

-After reading your second post I have to ask if your intent is to use or to sell? While I'm quite willing to share my machining experience with others that want to learn, I really dislike helping flippers to make money by estimating the value of items for them. I wish speculators/resellers/flippers would just go play the stock market and stop driving the market price up for those of us that actually use things. It's all too common here and they help nobody but themselves.

 

[paulsomlo]

-By reading between the lines of your posts I'll presume that your experience level is not sufficient for rebuilding a lathe. Your small garage would also get filled with components for at least a few months. A South Bend is usually an overpriced, worn out machine that has a devoted following from brand name recognition.

-Smaller is not always better, some of the tiny imported lathes are almost clumsy to use because your hands tend to bump the controls while operating. I stopped using mine when I bought a larger/better made lathe.

-Free? Yeah that's unlikely to happen. Your budget will usually decide what you should consider. With machinery you usually get what you're willing to pay for if it's in operational condition. Determine your budget and your expectations for the work you plan to do.

-After reading your second post I have to ask if your intent is to use or to sell? While I'm quite willing to share my machining experience with others that want to learn, I really dislike helping flippers to make money by estimating the value of items for them. I wish speculators/resellers/flippers would just go play the stock market and stop driving the market price up for those of us that actually use things. It's all too common here and they help nobody but themselves.

I nominate this for "Post of the Year" - especially the 4th paragraph; thank you @RoninB4!

 

[bobbuilder440]

-After reading your second post I have to ask if your intent is to use or to sell? While I'm quite willing to share my machining experience with others that want to learn, I really dislike helping flippers to make money by estimating the value of items for them. I wish speculators/resellers/flippers would just go play the stock market and stop driving the market price up for those of us that actually use things. It's all too common here and they help nobody but themselves.

I think you've made quite a few assumptions about me based on two posts.

I'm not asking for a valuation so I can immediately flip a machine (more than likely I would just help the guy list it for him, and make sure he got a fair price for what he has, but there is a high chance he would probably tell me to just keep the money-- since he already offered to let me have it for free in exchange for helping him clean his garage). I haven't even decided whether I'll keep it, restore it, use it, or sell it. I'm helping an older gentleman clean out his shop because he didn't want decades of tools and machinery ending up in a landfill, and in return he offered me whatever I wanted. That's how I ended up here asking questions.

For what it's worth, I'm a proud reseller. I think that name doesn't describe what I do at all, I am typically not reselling something I buy from a garage sale or wherever, I am buying from guys that do business liquidations, dump runs, estate sales at the end when they're going to throw everything else away and I buy it all etc. Most of what I sell was one step away from the trash. I spend countless hours identifying, cleaning, testing, photographing, listing, packing, and shipping things that otherwise would have been scrapped. The people who buy from me are often grateful because they couldn't find those parts anywhere else / most "resellers" wouldn't of realized the potential value and skipped past it. I have pulled from the trash a handmade mug from Ireland by the guys that used to make all the wooden casks for Guinnesses before they were replaced by steel kegs. They proceeeded to make wooden mugs to feed their families and they looked like a random maybe fake thing from Ikea, but I thought what the heck it shows some signs of being handmade and it ended up being worth $400.00 to someone that knew I had found it in a pile on the way to the trash. They were stoked to have it.

I understand the frustration with speculators who manipulate markets or hoard inventory. I laugh at the cringe level of Americans that rushed to Costco during Covid to buy all the toilet paper they could possibly yank off the shelves before the other lady got one. You can't wipe your **** with a sock or buy a bidet? How did toilet paper become this thing where a world exists that suddenly stops working if you don't have charmin 2 ply. Half the world doesn't have access to toilet paper or clean water and they are oftentimes happier than we are with all are freedom, money, and fear of not having enough stuff. I don't like those people either. But painting every reseller with the same brush ignores the role many of us play in keeping old tools and equipment in circulation. Not only that but I will literally buy anything or save it from the trash if I think someone will buy it from me on ebay and it will fetch enough money to make it worthwhile to take images, clean it, study it, list it, store it, ship it, deal with returns, complaints, lost or stolen packages, fraudulent buyers etc. I have 100% positive feedback on ebay and sell roughly 12k gross (after fees shipping and costs that number goes down by 50%) then income tax. It helps pay a little bit towards bills but by no means is it super lucrative. I suggest you try it out.

If you'd rather not help someone who might sell a machine someday, that's completely your choice. But I'd rather be judged on my questions and willingness to learn than on assumptions about my motives. And I will break it to you guys, the more people that are resellers looking through random stuff or trash or whatever the more the price of said items will go down. If that lathe had been mostly thrown away / all the random tooling and bits and stuff just tossed in a dump run property clean out-- it does nothing but drive the price UP for you. The more people that sell on ebay hurts resellers and benefits buyers.


But yeah I am not here to win an argument most people are set in their beliefs and view of the world, I just hope you realize that everything doesn't need to be adversial online. If I was asking as though I had no interest in tools, no experience with tools, and no value to add to this forum then yes, that would be maybe a little scummy of me. But still my points above still apply. I do however have many things to bring to the community and help others with, and if that is encouraging them to become "resellers" then great. maybe 1% of anything I have ever resold was ever bought at a retail store / a sale with limited inventory / predatory in that manner.

So yeah I don't want to give you satisfaction of knowing you got under my skin, but you did. But used to it now, and know you're just wrong. But there are a lot of gatekeeping older people in different hobbies or skills that are now dying off because they don't want to share their knowledge / think that unless someone has 20 years working or experience being a HAM operator or a machinist then they haven't earned your respects. You are the same people that at a garage sale would drool at someone selling their grandfathers old lathe for $20 knowing it was worth $1500, and not feel bad about it. Which to each their own I won't judge you for that, but I certainly don't make my business doing that. I don't even buy from garage sales usually anymore I have so many people that bring me stuff they salvage knowing I am the only guy that will give them some money for random items that I think I might be able to resell.

Anyway cheers. Hope you realize we have more common ground than you might think. Thanks

 

[bobbuilder440]

so yeah I take pride in what I do and people appreciate it.

 

[bobbuilder440]

once again proud to be a reseller if that is a slur these days then yeah I am all about owning it

 

[Cruzan80]

Wrote out the below, and then came back to see the OP defending his record. You aren't going to get a positive reaction by posting defensively about what you do. Let it go...


Pre-written:
I can see both sides of the argument here. I have also bought things with the intention of reselling, or making some extra cash, and have had experiences getting "snaked" by people who show up early to Estate sales and other sales solely with the intention of grabbing items to sell at a greatly enlarged profit, or buying machines just to break them into individual small parts, each of which at sold at an inflated premium. There is also the middle ground, of equipment that has been used or collected to make more complete sets of things, and has been outgrown.

To the OP, I credit you for helping things find a home, and especially with (what sounds like) helping an elderly gentleman move equipment along so it is less of a weight on him moving forward.

However, you should know that (regardless of your intentions), there are many new users who view GJ as a free appraisal service, only to maximize their own gain.

(I am not saying/implying you are doing the following, just explaining). It can be frustrating for those of us who use machines to feel like we are trying to help someone operate or understand the intricaies of how items work, only to find they were sply taking that information to appear more knowledgeable to a prospective buyer.

This is simply one of those cases where clarity helps ensure that everyone is aiming in the same direction. Not that you will not get help with appraisals, but they may be different people than if you wanted to put it to use.

As a rough data point, I sold a non-working, used for parts Atlas 12x36 lathe with stand for $200 within the last week in Denver, CO.

 

[RoninB4]

-Wow, 3 long posts of blah....blah.....blah....rationalizing. So you're a "proud reseller" (in excessively large font) huh? Your ego speaks volumes. We don't really have common ground. No further reply to me is required, I've already seen enough of your type to estimate the rest of your story. You go ahead and be you, the world must be your oyster.

 

[bobbuilder440]

Thanks