Between 705 & 1200 SQ/FT Lodi Motors

[fouckhest]

That concept looks great for the shop! Speaking from experience, make sure you've got some kind of path/drive way to get a car from the garage to the main driveway. It use to bug me at my house when it would rain all week, but ends up nice on the weekend and I can't get cars out b/c the yard was still wet and I couldn't get out or didn't want to tear up the grass.

Also, 32 deep is a great size, allows for a car with plenty of room in front or behind, depending on what you are doing.

 

[fourmotioneer]

That concept looks great for the shop! Speaking from experience, make sure you've got some kind of path/drive way to get a car from the garage to the main driveway. It use to bug me at my house when it would rain all week, but ends up nice on the weekend and I can't get cars out b/c the yard was still wet and I couldn't get out or didn't want to tear up the grass.

Also, 32 deep is a great size, allows for a car with plenty of room in front or behind, depending on what you are doing.

Thanks. Yeah, will have concrete pad at the doors and gravel path up to that.

On the 32’ depth I can cram multiple VWs in tip to tale with that depth too. Attic will serve as storage for parts so I don’t expect to have shelving downstairs which will help there

 

[fouckhest]

One other thought for your path would be those concrete grass blocks, those could look nice and not have to deal with gravel in the yard. I've thought about doing those once we finally redo the driveway.

Exactly why 32 was good number for my shop, and if you dont plan to have any cabinets (which I do not), its makes for good parking, plus with your four post you'll certainly have a nice storage bay at a minimum

 

[kj_mustang]

I wanted to do turf blocks on the lane to my detached garage about 2 years ago. But I was quoted almost $6 per block and wasn't going to spend $6,000 for those.

 

[fouckhest]

I wanted to do turf blocks on the lane to my detached garage about 2 years ago. But I was quoted almost $6 per block and wasn't going to spend $6,000 for those.

I had no clue those were that expensive, can only imagine what they cost now.

 

[fourmotioneer]

One other thought for your path would be those concrete grass blocks, those could look nice and not have to deal with gravel in the yard. I've thought about doing those once we finally redo the driveway.

Exactly why 32 was good number for my shop, and if you dont plan to have any cabinets (which I do not), its makes for good parking, plus with your four post you'll certainly have a nice storage bay at a minimum

The apron would be concrete and then I’d extend that a bit in concrete and continue the existing gravel to the concrete. Already have a gravel driveway so more gravel won’t be unwelcome.

I do really like the grass pavers and would consider them somewhere urban if I were starting from scratch

 

[fouckhest]

The apron would be concrete and then I’d extend that a bit in concrete and continue the existing gravel to the concrete. Already have a gravel driveway so more gravel won’t be unwelcome.

Gotcha, now that I look back at the one rendering, I can see the gravel. Makes total sense to stay with whats there!

 

[fourmotioneer]

Back bed, deck quote:
Went from this:

To this:



Got the deck builder out to go over his quote again. Last time he did work for us (window trim), we really liked the way he worked. He had a competitive estimate and didn’t go over budget. His crew somehow did a lot of while you’re in there work while staying under budget. Neat work, great crew, great attention to detail.

But, he’s not a planner. I think he makes up for it with a more hands-on work style. So, after getting serious about kicking off the deck we had him bring his $70k quote over and try to make a quick sketch of the deck to understand what he planned to order. And…it didn’t add up.

Once we explained how we expected the deck to be installed, he walked it with us and we counted boards by length. Took all of 30min. Combed through the quote some more and found some vendor errors as well. We ended up getting it down from $72k to $52k including spares that we can return. Ordered this week (prices already went up but vendor upheld May pricing).

We are pretty pumped about the savings. I’ll probably end up doing some demo to save a bit too. We aren’t thrown off by the bad calcs at all. Every single crew he brought in for the last job did great work. Took us an hour to sort it out before kicking off and now we are feeling really good about getting it started this month

 

[fourmotioneer]

Deck material:



Arrived today. Crew should be out in a week or two. I’ve been making passes at the deck screws to save some demo time.

Had screen contractor out for an estimate on a screened in porch where we currently have the porch furniture. It’s a nice place to sit, but might turn it into a dining area and move the furniture out to another area. Got an estimate to sandblast and powder coat the iron furniture and it wasn’t bad.

 

[larry4406]

Deck material:



Arrived today. Crew should be out in a week or two. I’ve been making passes at the deck screws to save some demo time.

Had screen contractor out for an estimate on a screened in porch where we currently have the porch furniture. It’s a nice place to sit, but might turn it into a dining area and move the furniture out to another area. Got an estimate to sandblast and powder coat the iron furniture and it wasn’t bad.

Curious on the approximate cost to sandblast and powder coat the iron furniture. This project has been staring me in the face for a couple years.

Been dreading dragging out the pressure pot blaster and compressor and having at it.

 

[FullRaceMerc]

Curious on the approximate cost to sandblast and powder coat the iron furniture. This project has been staring me in the face for a couple years.

Been dreading dragging out the pressure pot blaster and compressor and having at it.

I don't know the cost for furniture, but our powdercoater sandblasts as part of his regular prep.

 

[fourmotioneer]

I’m not sure what method they’d use for stripping, but in the past they’ve sent my parts across the street to the paint shop for blasting

 

[fourmotioneer]

More material:



Another week or so before the crew shows up

 

[fourmotioneer]

More mulching:

Started with overgrown beds:





Pulled up old weed mats, dug into soil and raked up as many weeds as I could

Ended up like this before dinner:




Grabbed 24 bags of mulch and some weed barrier:



Will see if I can get that down once kids are asleep

 

[fourmotioneer]

Need more mulch:

 

[fourmotioneer]

Done mulching:


Mulch was the easy part. Will get some plants to plant in the beds this weekend

 

[fourmotioneer]

Some more plants:




Hollyhocks and butterfly bushes. Will add some more bushes to fill it out. A lot of this will be replaced when we get some landscaping done, so I just wanted to clean it up and get some stuff in until we get to that point

 

[fourmotioneer]

Pickup fuel injector inserts:

Wasn’t able to find these when I got my truck on the road in 2020. Finally sat down to find a set. Ordered them from an Audi online vendor which advertised a set of 5, but got 6 instead. So now I have two spares!

Pickup idle improved after installation as well

 

[nicholam77]

Grabbed 24 bags of mulch and some weed barrier:

Love it!

That's one hell of a deck to redo. But it will be nice when done!

Pretty exciting projects with the detached building and landscaping in the works. The Gemini render looks neat, quite an amazing property you have Graham.

Can't imagine 4 under 6 yrs old, I would also be celebrating mudflaps (which I probably should have put on my GTI!), but it seems you're getting to quite a few things beyond that as well.

 

[fourmotioneer]

Deck teardown:



Back is torn down for the most part. Front was loaded with screws. A friend came over today to hang out on the deck removing screws. Not great work but he had a nice ride

 

[fourmotioneer]

More deck teardown progress:




Another day of this and then onto any structural work required

 

[fourmotioneer]

Deck teardown almost complete



Area above and below and what we will screen in


Next up is structural repairs and improvements

 

[fouckhest]

Thats a WILD amount of demo!!!

I dont recall, are you doing trex/timberteck? If so, are they respacing the joists?

 

[fourmotioneer]

Thats a WILD amount of demo!!!

I dont recall, are you doing trex/timberteck? If so, are they respacing the joists?

Timbertech Vintage. It’s fully solid vs some of the products that scallop out the bottom for cost.

We will likely keep 16” spacing but if they start and that bows too much we can always reconsider. My buddy had a deck built with the same product on 16” spacing and it feels great

 

[fouckhest]

Timbertech Vintage. It’s fully solid vs some of the products that scallop out the bottom for cost.

We will likely keep 16” spacing but if they start and that bows too much we can always reconsider. My buddy had a deck built with the same product on 16” spacing and it feels great

Gotcha, good to hear! When we did our deck it was new construction, so it was easy to just build it 12" on center.

 

[fourmotioneer]

Gotcha, good to hear! When we did our deck it was new construction, so it was easy to just build it 12" on center.

Texted my buddy and it was 12”. Going to have them respace

 

[fouckhest]

Texted my buddy and it was 12”. Going to have them respace

Never going to be a better time to do it! Glad you checked!

 

[fourmotioneer]

GC and the carpenters went through the remaining frame and here are the notes moving forward:

All porches

• Upgrade the headers (mounted to posts) that support ends of joists to 2x12
• Keep slope away from house (like an old house)
• Straighten and level everything
• 12” OC joists - keep any good old joists but remove during straightening
• 10D structural galvanized nails on hangers

Rear

• Fix bow in rear porch roof header
• Fix bow in rear porch
• Remove rear landing
• Leave landing footers
• Remove rear siding
• Add moisture barrier and fill and grade
• Call gutter guy out to adjust when done
• Reroute dryer vent and furnace vent

Front screened area

• Add moisture barrier and fill and grade
• Line up roof posts to accept screens
• Finish demo of outside stairs to side door
• Replace handshake joists with 16’
• Replace girder with 2x12s
• Pour footers for girder posts (replace blocks)

North side

• Remove overhang so that porch ends at wall

Front

• Cut back bushes for work access

My take:

It will add 2-3 weeks to the schedule and with 3 senior carpenters that will add up. The goal here isn’t perfectionism so much as chasing something I can more or less trust to last the best 20-30 years so I can enjoy it with my family.

The carpenters told me that when they did the window trim last year, they were really itching to fix the deck. As I’ve said before here, it’s kind of ridiculous to have such a large deck in poor condition and with so many aesthetic issues. Looking forward to seeing what this crew can manage

 

[fourmotioneer]

Virtual joists

 

[fouckhest]

Virtual joists

Its like being at SEMA, "bluetooth" joists LOL

 

[fourmotioneer]

Minor deck progress






At this point I think the only things that are going to be reused will be the posts above and below the deck

Post locations up top don’t align with lower posts. I’m no structural engineer but loading the lower posts directly seems like the best approach. With 2x12 headers there may be some ability to load those with point loads in bending but this will all be reviewed before moving forward with any repairs

Real scope creep is potential work on the roof overhang header. I told the GC that I would like him to correct every single thing he finds. No point in a wrap around porch if it is built like hell

 

[fourmotioneer]

Patio estimate - how to miscommunicate and lose money

In short, had a landscape architect out to discuss a patio project. Told him we are budgeting about $100k/yr for projects like deck work, patio, future garage, landscaping.

I asked for:
- a proposal
- an estimate

To me a proposal is a list of what each stage of the project (design, site work, build etc entails and what those cost). In the past I’ve received proposals that include the cost for the project estimate work.

Since we’ve exploded the scope of our deck work recently, the idea of a patio is less appealing for next year. So I told the lanscape architect/landscaper that we would be waiting until 2027 at the latest



So, I paid within an hour because the money isn’t the issue here, it’s just how he handled it. He had never mentioned a $1000 minimum or what he would actually deliver outside of the specific wording of proposal and estimate. It arrived a week after he said it would be done.

And this is what he delivered:


My running buddy is an architect and he thought this was pretty egregious. The landscape architect delivered a “design” that “took at lot of time” but what I have here is a sloppy sketch with no dimensions or detail. In other words, he got to get paid for being busy and I have no evidence to show for his work.

I called after I paid him to let him know that 1) springing this on us after the fact was poor communication 2) I don’t expect a handout 3) this is not what we would consider a design. It doesn’t reflect a significant effor

I make engineering drawings and seek quotes and estimates for million dollar equipment at work. I value to work that goes into estimates. I think it’s a huge risk for companies quoting (they probably will waste the effort). So I agree that it’s worth compensation. I just think that this was a pretty lackluster deliverable for $1000

Alright, clearly this irked me. Open to opinions and being wrong here so please share what you think

 

[fouckhest]

I would totally agree that "plan" is not worth $1k. That puts you in a tough spot b/c if you know his work, like his work and want to use him in the future, its either negotiate to pay say 1/2 of that absurd fee, or tell him to pound sand and then have to find someone else....

If it makes you feel any better, I am dealing with something similar for our murphy bed project in the spare bedroom/office, had a guy come out and give us a quote last Friday, got a quote Monday morning, for $6250, for two cabinets and a box to hold a murphy bed frame

 

[fourmotioneer]

I would totally agree that "plan" is not worth $1k. That puts you in a tough spot b/c if you know his work, like his work and want to use him in the future, its either negotiate to pay say 1/2 of that absurd fee, or tell him to pound sand and then have to find someone else....

If it makes you feel any better, I am dealing with something similar for our murphy bed project in the spare bedroom/office, had a guy come out and give us a quote last Friday, got a quote Monday morning, for $6250, for two cabinets and a box to hold a murphy bed frame

Yesterday I still would have worked with him and I still believe his work would have been good or even the best in town. But, the stress of managing someone who works that way isn’t worth it.

Our deck builder caused some stress last week (why couldn’t they plan for deck repairs before they removed the decking?…) but I have been very pleased with his crew and his communication

 

[fouckhest]

Yeah, I dont like the "managing a manager," thats what they get paid for

 

[kaehlin]

Communication is key. Clear agreement and understanding up front. Maybe he decided he'd never get the job and he may as well shoot his shot for $1000, but it seems pretty likely to burn the relationship.

 

[gearhead1960]

That proposal isn’t. It’s a wish list that he’s hoping you have deep enough pockets to bite on. It’s also completely unprofessional. I wrote Engineering proposals for 25 years. I would be ashamed to give that to a client. Walk away….from that POS.

 

[fourmotioneer]

That proposal isn’t. It’s a wish list that he’s hoping you have deep enough pockets to bite on. It’s also completely unprofessional. I wrote Engineering proposals for 25 years. I would be ashamed to give that to a client. Walk away….from that POS.

Yeah, I told him that I thought about it and based on the interaction, he doesn’t have the character we seek in someone we work with. That upset him and got me a bunch of “I rounded everything down for you, I pulled you ahead, I did more than $1000 of work for you”

I also come from engineering background but on the customer side. I spec custom equipment like heat exchangers for industrial processes. I do pay upfront for engineering, and guess what I get? Real drawing drafts and beautiful performance sheets

Keep in mind that I paid him in full within an hour of him requesting the money. That made me feel better when I told him that I’ve done home problem sets 15 years ago that were neater and more useful than what he provided and nobody paid me squat for those”

Regardless, I don’t begrudge contractors or people who do residential work. I am learning how to interact in a way that benefits all. It’s a lot easier in a B2B relationship

 

[fourmotioneer]

Grading and fill:

The area under the front porch collects water from the driveway due to the dirt under the porch being lower than the driveway. The GC suggests that we do the following:

1) fill the low spots with dirt and grade away from foundation
2) add 6mil black plastic to keep moisture from penetrating
3) cover plastic with float stone

$1800 in materials ($1000 12-13yd float stone, $300 dirt, $500 plastic)

$4400 in labor which includes shoveling, wheelbarrows etc. that’s steep but it’s a lot of material to move

I’m looking for validation that it is wise to grade away from foundation and give water a place to go at this appreciable but ultimately nominal cost.

-GC suggests it would prevent future frost heave of footings. I agree with that.

-GC suggests that moisture sitting under joists isn’t great long term. I also tend to agree there

-GC suggests this is standard practice. We do have truly nonexistent grading and no stone under there currently. I believe that it’s standard practice

-GC suggests this (the stone mainly) will help with critters. Haven’t had an issue so far but makes sense

So, my prompt to the GJ commenters and thinkers here is, is there value in another $6k of site work, or is this busy work? Aside from the area that pools water, is this worth doing under a covered porch? I have them moving forward but can be convinced otherwise. Always happy to pay for work that has functional value even if I can’t see it

The pooling under deck. Definitely needs to be improved



And the area that will have no grading. Why do it above and not down here? Makes me question if I should either do both or neither:

 

[fouckhest]

Without being there in person to see, its hard to tell...BUT, I have fought water at my house for years and have learned (the hard way), that anytime I change anything water mitigation is in my train of though.

All that said, if water is pooling now, its going to keep pooling and likely get worse over time as things continue to erode. One question is, can it only be done now or can it be done later? Even if later, is there ever going to be a cheaper/more opportune time to do it, either way if you have the opportunity to direct it in another direction and keep it from pooling, I would say yes