Mini-Split vs Gas or Electric Heat in Detached Garage - Detroit Area

[kngelv]

.....because the heat pump offered is older technology that no body would buy if they have any knowledge of heat pumps, great for the company selling/installing's profit margin. If offered, your getting screwed.

Kngelv nice install , good height off the ground for snow height.

Thanks. The stand is fastened to the composite pad. It's is sitting on a pad of four 24" pavers with a leveled base. It's not fastened to the pavers so you can kind of rock it if you push hard enough. I'm thinking of using some decorative stone or something similar to cover it. It would look better and also add some stability. I forgot to set it to auto last night and just had the fan in manual so it was 74 degrees out there this morning even though the temp was set to 64 degrees. Outside temp was 35 degrees. Turned it down to 62 and put it in auto.

James

 

[TheClaw]

For the average consumer, it is very difficult to compare the PERFORMANCE of different mini-splits.

No ****! My head is spinning trying to choose the right one.

And I consider myself a little better than the average consumer. I'm pretty OCD/ADHD about it all.

 

[theoldwizard1]

No ****! My head is spinning trying to choose the right one.

Once you have made a decision, please share WHY you chose what you did !

 

[pcmeiners]

It's not fastened to the pavers so you can kind of rock it if you push hard enough.

Personally would anchor, one of my units had an issue with the lag bolts on one end, the wind whipped up and it ended up at a 45 degree angle held by the lag bolts on the far end. Also it looks like your unit is close to the house wall, if you can move it I would bring it out a few inches to foot, less air flow restriction.

 

[kngelv]

It'

Personally would anchor, one of my units had an issue with the lag bolts on one end, the wind whipped up and it ended up at a 45 degree angle held by the lag bolts on the far end. Also it looks like your unit is close to the house wall, if you can move it I would bring it out a few inches to foot, less air flow restriction.

It's 12" from the garage wall. Hard to tell in the picture.

James

 

[TheClaw]

Dumb question: The only way you can get a Fujitsu is thru an affiliated contractor?

 

[pcmeiners]

Purchased 5 units from Got Ductless, no affiliated contractor necessary

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[T VETTE]

I was recently in Europe and it is amazing how many of these split systems you see, everywhere from apartments to small shops. I would have installed one in my shop but the cost of electricity to run the thing here in California would be too expensive.

Our electrical bills have gone up 83% in the last 5 years and 96% the last 10. I would rather have a cool house in the summer. I did decide on a Mr. Heater Big MAXX 50k for the shop running on propane, the cost has not changed in 10 years for propane.

 

[kngelv]

I am stunned by how quiet this thing is. It's holding at 64 but it's not that cold yet. Next week should be in the 20's so that will be a decent test.

James

 

[TheClaw]

I was recently in Europe and it is amazing how many of these split systems you see, everywhere from apartments to small shops. I would have installed one in my shop but the cost of electricity to run the thing here in California would be too expensive.

Our electrical bills have gone up 83% in the last 5 years and 96% the last 10. I would rather have a cool house in the summer. I did decide on a Mr. Heater Big MAXX 50k for the shop running on propane, the cost has not changed in 10 years for propane.

It's likely that many of the homes and buildings in Europe were constructed long enough ago they never installed ductwork.

RRT Propane, When I was using it a lot to heat a garage in a rental place we had about 5 years ago, filling a tank at Walmart was like $17-18 bucks. It's now solidly over $25. If your propane is still the same price buy all you can now!

 

[pcmeiners]

I am stunned by how quiet this thing is. It's holding at 64 but it's not that cold yet. Next week should be in the 20's so that will be a decent te

The 20s ?, that is no test, mine have been down to -7° F, the units took it in stride.

 

[T VETTE]

It's likely that many of the homes and buildings in Europe were constructed long enough ago they never installed ductwork.

RRT Propane, When I was using it a lot to heat a garage in a rental place we had about 5 years ago, filling a tank at Walmart was like $17-18 bucks. It's now solidly over $25. If your propane is still the same price buy all you can now!

Yes those buildings were likely all over 100 years old or likely very much more that I saw.

I own my shop 500 gallon Propane tank so I can go and find the best price each summer when the price is low and usually get it for around $2.00 or $2.25 a gallon delivered. I also have an owned 1000 gal tank by my house so can get a good price at the right time of the season with volume.

 

[kngelv]

The 20s ?, that is no test, mine have been down to -7° F, the units took it in stride.

Oh, I know the 20s isn’t a real test but around here it won’t get down to zero or something till January February. I’m sitting out here now it’s 35° outside with crazy high winds. It’s a nice balmy 66 degrees in here with no noise. I can’t believe how nice this is.

 

[kngelv]

Did an oil change and lube job on my kid's car Friday. Outside temp 11 degrees. Inside temp 64 degrees. I was a little paranoid opening the main door to pull the car in but it only dropped a few degrees because we did it pretty fast. I absolutely love this. My vents in the house are louder than the mini-split. Working out there in t-shirt is great. No electric bill yet so we will have to see how much this is costing.

James

 

[kngelv]

Last night I pulled the 1998 Ranger in for a coolant flush, oil change, new shocks and leaf spring bushings. Was 62 degrees when we opened the door and 55 when we finally closed it. There was some snow in the bed that I should have removed because the temp dropped another couple of degrees shortly after. My garage door opener temp sensor was at 53. The blower is 10' up on the back wall so about 24' away. I have it set at 62 and it's in auto. I do have a little air leakage by the door seal that I have to address. This morning it's 7 degrees outside and 59 by the door. I took a thermometer to the back wall near the blower and it's 63 there. Seems like everything is going as planned. Eagerly anticipating that first bill but am very happy so far.

James

 

[American Locomotive]

I was recently in Europe and it is amazing how many of these split systems you see, everywhere from apartments to small shops. I would have installed one in my shop but the cost of electricity to run the thing here in California would be too expensive.

Our electrical bills have gone up 83% in the last 5 years and 96% the last 10. I would rather have a cool house in the summer. I did decide on a Mr. Heater Big MAXX 50k for the shop running on propane, the cost has not changed in 10 years for propane.

Are you sure about that?

It looks like you're paying around $0.40/kWh average? I searched your area, and it appears it floats around the mid 40s temperature-wise for most of the winter? That's the efficiency sweet-spot for most minisplits in heating mode. For a modern minisplit, even with electricity at $0.40/kWh, you would need propane to be about $1.90/gallon or less for it to be more economical to have a propane heater.

 

[pcmeiners]

Propane at 2.00/gallon is just under 3 times the cost of an efficient mini-split's fuel cost ( at the national average of .17/kw.)

 

[ShadowRuleZ]

Looking forward to more updates, trying to make a decision for my garage. That specific model you used is listed as 'retired' on their website.

 

[T VETTE]

Are you sure about that?

It looks like you're paying around $0.40/kWh average? I searched your area, and it appears it floats around the mid 40s temperature-wise for most of the winter? That's the efficiency sweet-spot for most minisplits in heating mode. For a modern minisplit, even with electricity at $0.40/kWh, you would need propane to be about $1.90/gallon or less for it to be more economical to have a propane heater.

I usually pay around $2.00 a gallon for propane.

Cooling In the summer, we are pretty much around 95-100 degrees each day for about 3+ months. On the house I have two dual Pac AC units because the house is rather long and only single story. I never run both at the same time and we only have the AC set at 82 and paid last year $425 each month. Friends of mine who want it around 78 degrees have told me $900 some months. Summer I only work in the shop mornings. Besides that the split will run me 4x more to purchase. The ($280) Big Maxx 50k is working just fine right now.

 

[American Locomotive]

I usually pay around $2.00 a gallon for propane.

Cooling In the summer, we are pretty much around 95-100 degrees each day for about 3+ months. On the house I have two dual Pac AC units because the house is rather long and only single story. I never run both at the same time and we only have the AC set at 82 and paid last year $425 each month. Friends of mine who want it around 78 degrees have told me $900 some months. Summer I only work in the shop mornings. Besides that the split will run me 4x more to purchase. The ($280) Big Maxx 50k is working just fine right now.

While not to hijack this thread, I'm assuming by "pac" unit, you mean a through-wall PTAC unit, like in a hotel? Those are very inefficient, typically they have an EER of around 8-9 depending on their age. A modern minisplit will probably use 1/2 to 1/3rd of the electricity to provide the same cooling.

 

[whateg01]

While not to hijack this thread, I'm assuming by "pac" unit, you mean a through-wall PTAC unit, like in a hotel? Those are very inefficient, typically they have an EER of around 8-9 depending on their age. A modern minisplit will probably use 1/2 to 1/3rd of the electricity to provide the same cooling.

I have a friend who has one in his detached garage. He's had it several years, having picked it up used. Are they bulletproof? You'd think inefficiency would have hotels shunning them. I have been in a few hotels that used minisplits, but it's pretty rare still.

 

[dscheidt]

I have a friend who has one in his detached garage. He's had it several years, having picked it up used. Are they bulletproof? You'd think inefficiency would have hotels shunning them. I have been in a few hotels that used minisplits, but it's pretty rare still.

they're pretty reliable. Current high efficiency ones have an eer of around 13. (COP of 3.8) That's not far off a split. One of the reasons hotels like them is because they're packaged. If there's a failure, the whole unit gets pulled and a new one installed, which can be done between check out and check in. The old one gets fixed, or not, depending.

 

[American Locomotive]

I have a friend who has one in his detached garage. He's had it several years, having picked it up used. Are they bulletproof? You'd think inefficiency would have hotels shunning them. I have been in a few hotels that used minisplits, but it's pretty rare still.

Relatively cheap to install, easy to give per room comfort, easy to service. There's a reason why so many hotels shut the AC off at night....

they're pretty reliable. Current high efficiency ones have an eer of around 13. (COP of 3.8) That's not far off a split.

Depends on the split. The newest single zone splits can hit cooling EERs of over 27 (>8 COP) at certain load points. Check out the newest 35 SEER2 Mitsubishi on neep. Pretty wild stuff.

 

[finn]

It's likely that many of the homes and buildings in Europe were constructed long enough ago they never installed ductwork.

RRT Propane, When I was using it a lot to heat a garage in a rental place we had about 5 years ago, filling a tank at Walmart was like $17-18 bucks. It's now solidly over $25. If your propane is still the same price buy all you can now!

The 20 lb jugs used fot bbq have gone up a lot over the years. They used to be $12-13, then $16, and now I believe they’re $22-26.

Bulk fill is a different story. We prepaid at $1.55, / gallon, and it’s been right around that ( $1.49) for several years now.

 

[pcmeiners]

New Mitsubishi high efficiency unit....

Bit low on the HSPF (13), the important number for most of the USA, was expecting >14. Not any better than other top end manufacturers.

https://device.report/manual/16777595

 

[T VETTE]

While not to hijack this thread, I'm assuming by "pac" unit, you mean a through-wall PTAC unit, like in a hotel? Those are very inefficient, typically they have an EER of around 8-9 depending on their age. A modern minisplit will probably use 1/2 to 1/3rd of the electricity to provide the same cooling.

No not a hotel unit! Typical HVAC for a 20 year old home with the AC condenser outside on cement pad and gas furnace in the attic. Dual Pac may have not have been the correct term I used earlier.

 

[kngelv]

Costs so far have been pretty reasonable. It looks like it cost me about $20.00 for the first month. Outside temps were in high teens to low 30's for the most part. Large garage door was opened a 1/2 dozen times which obviously lets a lot of heat out. Very happy so far. Still stunned by how quiet it is.

James

 

[kngelv]

December was much colder and it looks like it cost me about $40.00 to heat the garage. Money well spent. It's -7 here today and the garage is a stable 62 degrees. I do have some air leakage around the door. I'm looking at getting the door hinges that press the door up against the tracks as part of the solution.

James

 

[kngelv]

Summer update: My original purpose on the mini-split was to heat my garage quietly and efficiently this past winter. The Fujitsu did a great job of keeping it at 64 degrees all winter long. Initially I never really thought about the cooling aspect. On Sunday I set it to cool for the first time as we are in the high 90's right now. I have R60 cellulose in the ceiling and R-23 Rockwool in the walls with a R-18 door. It's usually a good 8-10 degrees cooler out there even without the mini-split on. My son and I have been working on his car doing a complete front and rear suspension replacement and it is beyond comfortable out there. I have it set to 74 degrees and it has been doing a fantastic job of keeping it cool. I'm very impressed.

James

 

[theoldwizard1]

I was recently in Europe and it is amazing how many of these split systems you see,

In SE Asia, from South Korea to India, this is pretty much all you will see.

Beside being efficient, people there have much smaller dwelling, many only 1 or 2 rooms.