Reciprocating saw (Sawzall) ergonomics and vibration

[YesIHaveAHammer]

There are a few models out now with vibration dampening mechanisms, official measurements claim reductions of 30-60%. Aside from the price, the cost is a bit of extra bulk underneath the middle, and 0.5-1 kg (1-2 lbs) heavier, so essentially as much as going from a Milwaukee standard to a super. What do you say to that? Might feel that extra weight if using it one handed on the odd occasion.

Also I noticed differences in the rear grip angle, most have it at a slightly off right angle, few have it truly square or much shallower. I get it needs to be fairly upright (unlike a chainsaw) so you can apply forward pressure to keep it against the material. Any experiences or thoughts?

 

[atikovi]

I bought a $22 with coupon Harbor Freight corded model for cutting up a car before taking it to the scrap yard. I'm no H.F. fanbody, but got my money's worth out of it.

 

[Damon L.]

I have had a corded Super Sawzall for years. When I was first doing carpentry work, I picked up a Masterforce cordless kit, that included the brushless reciprocating saw. Losing the cord was great, but if I had serious work to do, I grabbed the old Super.

Last fall I swapped from MF to Milwaukee, and the kit I picked up had the Fuel sawzall. What a difference. Power wise and the vibration management. I haven't touched the old super since, and I really don't see myself doing so unless I run out of batteries.

 

[Pexto]

One thing to consider is whether you want orbital action or not. I used a recip with orbital action (Makita?) once for some wood demolition work, and it was awesome for cutting through old studs and sheathing. It seemed to cut faster with less vibration. But I don't think you'd want orbital action for cutting metal.

Unfortunately my cordless Dewalt doesn't have orbital action. And the vibration is pretty intense. I usually try to find another tool to do the job, but sometimes the recip is the only option.

 

[JohnX14]

IDK. I've been using corded and cordless sawzalls for 40 plus years. I like the medium duty, fairly lightweight ones for my work. (Electrical) For demo, I do have 1-2 super sawzalls. My guys like the hackzalls for cutting conduit and lighter work. I still prefer the traditional sawzall

 

[Buckaroo5]

I have had a corded Super Sawzall for years. When I was first doing carpentry work, I picked up a Masterforce cordless kit, that included the brushless reciprocating saw. Losing the cord was great, but if I had serious work to do, I grabbed the old Super.

Last fall I swapped from MF to Milwaukee, and the kit I picked up had the Fuel sawzall. What a difference. Power wise and the vibration management. I haven't touched the old super since, and I really don't see myself doing so unless I run out of batteries.

I am also still running the corded Super Sawzall but will look at that M18 Milwaukee. Is it the 2821-20 or the 2722-20? Haven't figured out the difference except the 2722 is $50 more.

 

[Nobody-named-Olli]

My most used is a Snap-On 14.4V with the dual chuck (Recip blades as well as T style jig saw blades). It’s lightweight, has a fairly long stroke for such a small saw and is pretty fast - lot of it’s cutting power comes from choosing the right blade & coolant. Biggest advantage being it can go places, full size models can’t. I’ve had similar/identical positive feedback when I gave it to contractors working for me to make that one cut other tools couldn’t. Snap-On being the odd one out, a couple of those contractor went then out to buy the Metabo on my word, that also has the dual chuck and is a fairly small, still powerful package overall.

To me that is stuff that matters because I don’t just do “ full on demolition”, pallet repair and/or other “rough” stuff - where size doesn’t matter and pure speed counts. Also, no daily or long term use.

For example, my door/window guys buy the cheapest name-brand/supplier branded universal/ bi-metal blades in bulk and during demolition make two cuts tops per blade. It’s cut, cut, blade out, blade in, cut, cut, (…) They just smoke the blades, full power, full force pressing down. Fast as hell, no remorse, just get it done. They want the “brute” of the Sawzall world. But exactly they and their employer, should be the ones interested in getting a tool with the lowest possible vibration.

If I was in the market for a new full size one, I’d surely look at all the models, but it being one of those tools I really expect not much else besides fast cuts with more or less disposable blades from, I’d probably go with what I already have the batteries for. (If cordless.) Plus, I rarely use a full size one compared to my small Snap-On. So replacing it just for the promise of lower vibration, not happening.

Still, your best “anti vibration” from a cutting speed/ cutting result perspective is a firm grip, pressure in direction of cut, pressure/firm resting of the saw’s shoe against what you’re cutting & a sharp and suitable blade.

With daily & long-term use one should definitely aim for the model with the lowest vibration emission possible. It’s a good thing manufacturers in the EU are required to list vibration levels/emission for tools. And I applaud manufacturers for bringing broader attention to this.

HAVS and VWF are no joke. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_arm_vibrations )

Kind regards,
Olli

 

[Ohio Andy]

I am also still running the corded Super Sawzall but will look at that M18 Milwaukee. Is it the 2821-20 or the 2722-20? Haven't figured out the difference except the 2722 is $50 more.

I own both....

2821-20 is lighter perfect for overhead stuff or simple/easier cutting

2722-20 (Super Sawzall) is heavier / heavy-duty demolition tool with selectable orbital action and a speed dial. So more aggressive and faster.

 

[LopezBart]

I have both a 30 year old corded SawAll and the M18. I've let our son have the corded one; I'm using the M18 here on Lopez Island, most often for yard work w/ a carbide Diablo pruning blade. I often use it for limbing felled or windfall trees; it makes reasonably quick work of fir and pine branches and is much safer and easier to use in tight quarters than my 20" bar Stihl.

Some years ago, my BIL borrowed the corded SawAll to cut up an old BMW he had for sheet metal parts; w/o a VIN & title he couldn't junk it, so he spent a day reducing it to smaller pieces they would take. These are tough tools; they really are heavily built.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Thanks folks.

One thing to consider is whether you want orbital action or not. I used a recip with orbital action (Makita?) once for some wood demolition work, and it was awesome for cutting through old studs and sheathing. It seemed to cut faster with less vibration. But I don't think you'd want orbital action for cutting metal.

I do, as it'll see a fair bit of wood. I'd expect more vibration rather than less though. Can be turned off for metal.

Unfortunately my cordless Dewalt doesn't have orbital action. And the vibration is pretty intense.

Any chance you have the model number please? Many brands list vibration test data, would be a good reference point to compare.

 

[Pexto]

Thanks folks.


I do, as it'll see a fair bit of wood. I'd expect more vibration rather than less though. Can be turned off for metal.


Any chance you have the model number please? Many brands list vibration test data, would be a good reference point to compare.

I think (just speculating, based on limited experience) that orbital saws may vibrate less because the saw is held more firmly into the work on the cutting stroke.

My recip is the older DCS380. It's fairly light and has no anti-vibration features whatsoever, so probably a good reference for something not to buy.

I also have the DCD369 which is good for one-handed use like pruning, which is about all I've used it for. Once I helped a friend in Hawaii clear a bamboo grove - the technique was to grasp the 30-40 foot high bamboo at head height with your left hand, cut it off at chest height with the one handed recip, let the stalk slide vertically through your left hand to the ground (don't let it tip!), cut it off at chest height again, let it drop to the ground ... and so on until you have a stack of 4-foot pieces of bamboo while never having to bend over.

 

[CGarage]

I had the DeWalt 18V cordless reciprocating saw for working in the garden and pruning trees. It shook itself apart. I am losing faith in DeWalt power tools. The fasteners that hold the case halves in place backed out in multiple locations. Not very happy. It also had a lot of vibration that translated to my hands and I do wear gloves.

I bought the HF $19 plug in reciprocating saw as a “disposable tool”. If I was able to get one use out of it, I would have been happy. I had to chop up some plywood to dispose of and had a tree with limbs that produced sap, so I knew the tool would get fairly dirty, so I bought the HF as a throw away. It is not a refined tool, but I have not been able to make it quit, despite best efforts. I have gotten 10x my monies worth out of it.

I really think Milwaukee is the best of the best for tools like their reciprocating saws. I am sad to see what has happened to DeWalt, after buying into their tool range during the late 90s / early 2000s in the U.S., which seemed to be the golden period for their tools, with a slight edge given to Makita for battery powered tools.

The contractors I have hired and dealt with and construction men all use Milwaukee.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

My recip is the older DCS380. It's fairly light and has no anti-vibration features whatsoever, so probably a good reference for something not to buy.

Thanks. Spec for that model:

Vibration Emission Value (Cutting Board): 31 m/s² +/- 8.1
Vibration Emission Value (Cutting Beam): 33 m/s² +/- 6.6

Most of the modern big name ones are around 15.

It’s a good thing manufacturers in the EU are required to list vibration levels/emission for tools. And I applaud manufacturers for bringing broader attention to this.

I just checked a couple of brands now. They don't publish them on their USA websites, despite having the figures.

 

[pcmeiners]

Personally I use a Sawzall one handed often, have both an old Sawzall and a super, much prefer the old light unit most of the time (especially when removing plaster casts ).

 

[KnurledNut]

I have this Makita. It’s 10 years old and has not had any problems being used regularly and often hard secularly.
Its also done a lot of treework. I’ve cut up to 8” diameter.

The refined crank mechanism transfers noticeably less harsh vibration. The handle ergonomics work well and the larger two finger trigger is user friendly. I’ll often hold it with my hand palming the top corner with my thumb positioned where it steps down for the rafter hook. Balance is front heavy but not excessively.

I used a cordless brushed Makita model before that and it was even smoother but likely due to being less powerful. Night and day difference in vibration between it and the Dewalt it replaced.

 

[Damon L.]

I am also still running the corded Super Sawzall but will look at that M18 Milwaukee. Is it the 2821-20 or the 2722-20? Haven't figured out the difference except the 2722 is $50 more.

Mine is the 2821-20. It came in the 7 tool kit.

 

[Ohio Andy]

Mine is the 2821-20. It came in the 7 tool kit.

Yeah that's how I got mine too. I mean I don't know if it was the same toolkit but it came in a toolkit. I bought the other one separately for tougher jobs.

 

[finn]

I have an old Craftsman Industrial that doesn’t even have a quick blade change feature, a newer, but still probably twelve plus years old Bosch, a non fuel Milwaukee hacksall, and a newer Dewalt .

I like the concept of the hacksall, but the non fuel version I have is rather anemic. The 20v Dewalt is ok, but there are several variations in the Dewalt lineup, and I’m not sure I picked the best for my use. It’s a compromise between stroke / cutting power and weight.

The old Craftsman still works, is relatively light, but being corded and lacking a quick change feature, it doesn't get used much.

The Bosch is ok, but being corded and heavier It mostly stays In the case, too.