Do Tool Companies Intentionally Hire People that Know Nothing About Tools?

[dnschmidt]

DeWalt has introduced a new autobody type sander to complete against the M12 sanders Milwaukee introduced two years ago. Now one of the most important characteristics of these types of sanders is their throw. Typically 5mm (3/16") and 3mm (3/32"). The first is used for removing paint and finishing Bondo and high build primer and the second is typically used for color sanding clearcoat. NOWHERE is DeWalt's literature on this new product is the throw of these sanders ever mentioned. HIRE ME WHEN YOU INTRODUCE A NEW PRODUCT and I'll at least know what facts matter to be placed into your advertising blurb.

 

[CGarage]

I blame it on the disconnect between the sales team and product engineers and whom corporate outsources their marketing materials production to.

There is often a big disconnect here and you end up with bad consequences like this.

 

[paulsomlo]

The people who know about tools have jobs where they actually use them.

 

[NORTON'S SHOP]

Your question could be asked about any company in the world.

 

[RoninB4]

-In the industrial tool world it happens quite often to hire someone that's not familiar with the product/service. At a well known towing/recovery maker the new appointee to head the tooling dept. stood up after introducing herself said she had absolutely no knowledge of what went into designing or fabricating as she'd always been in office duties.
-An injection molder of automotive interior panels a new employee was hired/promoted to head operations because he promised goals that pleased management although he had no idea what injection molding parameters were.
-Another new hire for dept. head at the towing/recovery maker couldn't complete an e-mail sentence in English and I'd have to call her for clarification. The assistant she hired was just as incompetent and she had to be let go after having a mental breakdown at work.
-A dept. head at Whirlpool had this on the header of all correspondence; "Its your attitude, not your aptitude, that determines your altitude"

DEI, quota hires (funding related), and cronyism is common with industrial tool companies, I see no reason to expect otherwise in hand tool makers. It's little wonder that American manufacturers are often pathetically bad.

 

[Astro_Pneumatic_Tools]

Oh the engineers know, 100%. They could tell you all about it.
The larger the corporation is, and we make tools for many of them, the further away engineers sit (literally and figuratively) from those who work on packaging, marketing material and frankly even decision making. Locked in a box and fed minimal info, no one asks engineers any further questions after a new item is approved because they are seen as roadblocks only even though they're responsible for everyone now being able to sell and make money off the new widget everyone else can only refer to as the model number and couldn't pick out of a picture line up.

 

[MovingAlong]

Of course they do.

DeWalt needs people who know how to market tools.

Based on their current overall market position, I'd say they've done alright.

Would be nice if they hit it 100% every time, but seems a quick email to customer service would answer your questions.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

NOWHERE is DeWalt's literature on this new product is the throw of these sanders ever mentioned.

Is this definitely DeWalt's own literature rather than something a retailer's put together?

 

[PCustoms]

DeWalt has introduced a new autobody type sander

What are you considering "autobody type" Sanders?

Model #?

 

[dnschmidt]

Is this definitely DeWalt's own literature rather than something a retailer's put together?

Yes.

 

[dnschmidt]

What are you considering "autobody type" Sanders?

Model #?

A cordless sander that looks and has the low center of gravity design of a Dynabrade or AirVantage air sander.

 

[i84x]

…the further away engineers sit (literally and figuratively) from those who work on packaging, marketing material and frankly even decision making. Locked in a box and fed minimal info, no one asks engineers any further questions after a new item is approved because they are seen as roadblocks only even though they're responsible for everyone now being able to sell and make money off the new widget everyone else can only refer to as the model number and couldn't pick out of a picture line up.

I remember at a factory i worked it that when customers would visit the person showing them around was specifically told to avoid letting them speak to the design engineers.
The engineers would tell the customer the truth about anything they asked and management hated it.

 

[PCustoms]

A cordless sander that looks and has the low center of gravity design of a Dynabrade or AirVantage air sander.

The one that shows a bunch of woodworking uses?

20V MAX* XR® Brushless Cordless 5-in (127 Mm) Variable Speed Random Orbital Sander (Tool Only)

Our 20V MAX* XR® 5 in brushless cordless random orbital sander provides the power and runtime needed to get the job done. A variable-speed dial provides ultimate speed control from 8,000 to 12,000 OPM for a variety of projects. One-handed locking dust bag attaches securely to the sander to aid...

www.dewalt.com

I don't see anything marketed towards autobody

 

[scooby074]

20V MAX* XR® 5 in. Brushless Cordless Variable-Speed Random Orbital Sander (Tool Only) | DEWALT

Our 20V MAX* XR 5 in Brushless Cordless Random Orbital Sander provides the power and runtime needed to get the job done. A variable-speed dial provides ultimate speed control from 8,000 to 12,000 OPM ...

www.dewalt.ca

 

[scooby074]

 

[dnschmidt]

No, they have sold that sander for 10 years. This is the new one I'm referring to: https://www.acmetools.com/dewalt-20...rbital-sander-(bare-tool)/S0000000127630.html

 

[PCustoms]

No, they have sold that sander for 10 years. This is the new one I'm referring to: https://www.acmetools.com/dewalt-20v-max*-xr-6-inch-random-orbital-sander-(bare-tool)/S0000000127630.html

Looks a brand new tool not fully released yet

 

[scooby074]

Ill cut Dewalt some slack here, its not even up on their website yet! Hard to blame them for specs that arent even published

 

[finn]

It took all of six seconds to find that it’s a 5 mm orbit, as reported by multiple sources.

Type in the model number along with your question. It’s one of those internet search things introduced twenty or more years ago.

That said, I don’t think it’s been officially launched yet

 

[Etchase]

Sure seems like it’s mostly targeted for sanding wood. I’m sure it will be good product.

 

[908Jim]

Oh the engineers know, 100%. They could tell you all about it.
The larger the corporation is, and we make tools for many of them, the further away engineers sit (literally and figuratively) from those who work on packaging, marketing material and frankly even decision making. Locked in a box and fed minimal info, no one asks engineers any further questions after a new item is approved because they are seen as roadblocks only even though they're responsible for everyone now being able to sell and make money off the new widget everyone else can only refer to as the model number and couldn't pick out of a picture line up.

I'm not sure if you can disclose, so forgive me for asking if you cannot, but do you guys actually manufacture your tools? As in, you own the facility? Or did you mean more like you source and develop the product with a manufacturer then support rebranding and modifying to relabel?

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

This is the new one I'm referring to: https://www.acmetools.com/dewalt-20...rbital-sander-(bare-tool)/S0000000127630.html

The images attached are promotional marketing material, not product literature.

If only a subset of customers care about the throw distance, they might have figured it's best not to mention it, as it could introduce a hesitation in the customer buying the product. If they don't realise there's a choice of throw, they might just buy it now rather than go away to think and research more about it.

 

[whateg01]

No, they have sold that sander for 10 years. This is the new one I'm referring to: https://www.acmetools.com/dewalt-20v-max*-xr-6-inch-random-orbital-sander-(bare-tool)/S0000000127630.html

Weird... They spelled auto body wrong

 

[CGarage]

@dnschmidt

I know you were in the tool business for a while and I respect your knowledge in the field.

My understanding was in the U.S., the automotive body refinishing and panel beaters shops often use 3M sanders etc?

I didn’t know that the big power tool companies had corded and cordless products that would appeal equally to the auto refinishing end user.

 

[jar944]

Imho cordless sanders only make sense for small diy projects. I'm not sure of the pro market.

 

[mngundog]

DeWalt has introduced a new autobody type sander to complete against the M12 sanders Milwaukee................ HIRE ME WHEN YOU INTRODUCE A NEW PRODUCT and I'll at least know what facts matter to be placed into your advertising blurb.

Open mouth, insert foot.

 

[Dakotadadv8]

DeWalt has introduced a new autobody type sander to complete against the M12 sanders Milwaukee introduced two years ago. Now one of the most important characteristics of these types of sanders is their throw. Typically 5mm (3/16") and 3mm (3/32"). The first is used for removing paint and finishing Bondo and high build primer and the second is typically used for color sanding clearcoat. NOWHERE is DeWalt's literature on this new product is the throw of these sanders ever mentioned. HIRE ME WHEN YOU INTRODUCE A NEW PRODUCT and I'll at least know what facts matter to be placed into your advertising blurb.

I think they assume you do your own research and have some knowledge of how to use tools and make your own decisions. Pro vs DIY/average person.

 

[dnschmidt]

Imho cordless sanders only make sense for small diy projects. I'm not sure of the pro market.

The Milwaukee sanders for the six inch autobody market have been a run away hit. Thus the versions recently introduced by both Bosch and DeWalt. You don't copy something that isn't selling.

 

[dnschmidt]

I think they assume you do your own research and have some knowledge of how to use tools and make your own decisions. Pro vs DIY/average person.

And how do you do your own research when none of their materials contains the crucial information you're looking for?

 

[dnschmidt]

@dnschmidt

I know you were in the tool business for a while and I respect your knowledge in the field.

My understanding was in the U.S., the automotive body refinishing and panel beaters shops often use 3M sanders etc?

I didn’t know that the big power tool companies had corded and cordless products that would appeal equally to the auto refinishing end user.

A Dynabrade type air sander requires a 5HP compressor at least (17 SCFM) and cost a fortune to keep running and you have the air hose fighting you every step of the way as well as the compressor noise. Cordless and a couple of spare batteries completely solves these issues. 3M's air sanders are made by AirVantage in Taiwan if you were wondering. Their electric are made by Festool in Germany. Milwaukee's Rapid Charger can charge an M12 battery faster than the tool can consume it. I rotate three 5.0 batteries and I've never run out of charge. The Bosch is even better since it's an 18V tool and uses their 4.0A-hr batteries a version of which has recently been introduced using tabless cell technology. With Milwaukee introducing a cordless air hammer about the only tool cordless has not replaced is high end spray guns. I don't expect that to happen anytime soon.

 

[Gmonkee]

Never buy a first version of any new tool out of habit. Let the market shake them out for you then buy one after all your trusted friends rave about them.
Especially with battery tools. Half are warmed over cheaper versions of an older model in a new case.
I have been bitten.

The specs don't tell you how they actually perform under stress. Your co-worker will.

 

[neophyte]

A Dynabrade type air sander requires a 5HP compressor at least (17 SCFM) and cost a fortune to keep running and you have the air hose fighting you every step of the way as well as the compressor noise. Cordless and a couple of spare batteries completely solves these issues. 3M's air sanders are made by AirVantage in Taiwan if you were wondering. Their electric are made by Festool in Germany. Milwaukee's Rapid Charger can charge an M12 battery faster than the tool can consume it. I rotate three 5.0 batteries and I've never run out of charge. The Bosch is even better since it's an 18V tool and uses their 4.0A-hr batteries a version of which has recently been introduced using tabless cell technology. With Milwaukee introducing a cordless air hammer about the only tool cordless has not replaced is high end spray guns. I don't expect that to happen anytime soon.

Are you sure the 3M sanders are made by Festool?
My understanding was that the older Festool sanders may have been made for Festool by FLEX, and there is more than one German sander manufacturer.
The 3M angle grinders that were made in Germany were made by Bosch for instance.

 

[Vinny]

So I get using a sander like this to remove paint/filler/rust, but I've never seen anyone use one for those finishing operations, only hand sanding.

 

[whateg01]

The Milwaukee sanders for the six inch autobody market have been a run away hit. Thus the versions recently introduced by both Bosch and DeWalt. You don't copy something that isn't selling.

You keep saying this sander is for the auto body market but the description says wood projects. Where do you get the idea that the intended market is auto body? Do you just not read the description and then make up your own?

 

[darkzero]

Oh they know. The important features will be available on the gen 2 which will be about another 8 yrs to be released. For Milwaukee that won't be until their gen 3 but will probably be only 6-7 yrs. That's one of the ways they make money.

 

[dnschmidt]

You keep saying this sander is for the auto body market but the description says wood projects. Where do you get the idea that the intended market is auto body? Do you just not read the description and then make up your own?

Obviously, a sander can sand anything. However the low center of gravity style of cordless sander based on the Dynabrade air sander is commonly used in autobody as a direct replacement for a Dynabrade or Hutchins 4500 air tool. Just another example of DeWalt apparently not even knowing the target market for their tool. There is a reason Milwaukee introduced their version of this tool at SEMA and not IWF. They understood the market they were going after.

 

[CGarage]

The corporate disconnect is often vast, and unfortunate when you cannot get product development to talk to the marketing team…

Hats off to Milwaukee for understanding their customer and end-user.

DeWalt needs to do better.

I see Milwaukee growing and DeWalt faltering. This was not always so.

 

[Cruzan80]

It may be possible this applies here. I will let you decide who is which...

 

[CGarage]

@dnschmidt made a good post.

I am surprised by those who were critical of him, particularly because he knows and understands the tool industry and the nuances rather well.

It should serve as a reminder that the companies do not always understand the needs of their consumer, and the disconnect between the various departments in medium and large businesses can create a lot of lost opportunity.

 

[whateg01]

I have yet to see anything that says that the customer they are targeting actually is the same customer op thinks they are. The only place I've seen mention of an application is where it says works great for woodworking. It's like complaining that Chevy won't make the Corvette have a high enough towing capacity for my camper just because I want it to pull my camper.