theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Bamboo flooring clicks together and floats on rosin paper. My daughter's shrunk enough after a year, that there were gaps at the walls, even though the baseboards were removed
Is real wood flooring (living room) no longer popular?
- Thread starter bw77
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jar944
Well-known member
Sure, but we are talking about nail down hardwood strip flooring. Each board in independently nailed, only significant expansion will cause buckling if there isn't enough space, contraction will happen at the individual boards not as a single unit only at the edges.
billconner
Well-known member
And it's not a gym. How much and a few strips at edge shrink, especially pre finished?
Was not a problem I 100 year old houses.
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
We moved 11 times before I got out of High School, I've subsequently moved 21 times over the next 50 years...some across town, some across the country.
No way I could justify the cost of installing a "lifetime" 3/4" solid wood floor, especially since the resale value just isn't there anymore.
Stuart in MN
Well-known member
The oak and birch floors in my 113 year old house are doing just fine, and the climate here is as extreme as anywhere.
My neighbor salvaged a bunch of maple gym flooring from a local school building that was being torn down. After it was sanded and refinished it looked spectacular.
johnre
Well-known member
Supposedly, it's a 147% cost recovery for refinishing an existing wood floor, however:
Hardwood Floor Refinishing vs. Replacement: Which Makes More Sense?
Refinish or replace your hardwood floors? Real cost comparison, timelines, resale ROI, and the specific conditions where refinishing is no longer possible.
www.12thandoak.com
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Maybe in NC...Supposedly, it's a 147% cost recovery for refinishing an existing wood floor, however:
Hardwood Floor Refinishing vs. Replacement: Which Makes More Sense?
Refinish or replace your hardwood floors? Real cost comparison, timelines, resale ROI, and the specific conditions where refinishing is no longer possible.
Moving every 2.5 years (on average) wouldn't be worth the expense or effort. This is more of an exception than common. I too, wouldn't be thinking long term resilience if that was my track record.
Depends on your career rquirements/lifestyle/outlook.....are you there for the short-term/investment or establishing roots for the long-haul?
You're better off with a click type product.
duneslider
Well-known member
Seems odd, most builders are happy to take your money if you want to spend it.
What I am seeing is most aren't willing to spend the money for it, newer technology has made the fake stuff look a lot better, perform better, and last better than it used to. Most people seem content with the fake stuff. Most younger people have never had real wood flooring and grew up with cheap vinyl flooring and carpet and the newer stuff is so much better than it used to be. Anyway, that's my opinion, I think the salesman have been great for the LVP, laminate, etc market.
That said, wood flooring has been in houses in upstate NY since they started building houses in upstate NY, so the wood isn't the problem.
Voi
Well-known member
I assume the concern is expansion/contraction & the gaps it can create?
If so, I would consider a quartersawn hardwood. Then the majority of the movement occurs across the thickness rather than the width.
jar944
Well-known member
RoninB4
Well-known member
-The following is NOT an attack on your statement, it is merely my opinion. I used to install carpeting during the mid 70's, some of it in very upscale homes. You can't really thoroughly clean it no matter what device/process is used because **** gets trapped in the matrix backing below the surface pile. A lot does depend upon whether shoes are allowed in the house but they all get debris locked in over time, some of it is downright disgusting to see when taken up. I can't imagine wanting to reuse carpeting no matter how much life it still had in it unless you're just flipping the house or renting it out. LVP may look ok when new but isn't very durable long term IMO. With all that said I've maintained many hard wood floors but haven't had to pay for one to be installed, it's probably quite expensive.
Lassen Forge
Well-known member
There is a learning curve to installing hardwood floors. It takes time, craftsmanship,. patience, and hard work. The results can last lifetimes, and nothing compares. But it's work, and the buy in (depending on the wood) can be pricey.
A lot of the box store bidders/installers know that they get a bigger profit margin installing vinyl or clad ("pergo") floors - They can get in and out, and walk away. So they'll give you every reason why "real hardwood floors" won't last, are a poor investoment, too much upkeep, etc. etc. etc...
Also, putting in hardwood floors - the old school type - takes a certain amount of craftsmanship and skill, and honestly, the guys who did floors for 40 years and teach apprentices to their standard are few and far between, and for the BB floor stores, they can hire a couple 19 year olds to slap down a lot cheaper and turn a bigger profit.
As to the "the climate won't take hardwood floors" - or "pineboard floors" or whatever other BS they're spewing - I know personally houses over 150 years old in some humid, hot, dry, moist, frezing, and/or crazy climates that, oh gee whiz. those floors are still there and still (once taken care of) look spectacular.
When we sold our houses - the BIGGEST draw was the polished hardwood floors. Wasn't like that 50 years ago, but now it's a serious upgrade, and you'll get your $$$ out of it if you decide to sell. The only time I'd go Pergo or the like is if it were a cheap rental where I had no expectation of the renters maintaining the floors. I had them in one apartment I rented, and I honestly hated the stuff - cold, lifeless, and looked fake.
A lot of the box store bidders/installers know that they get a bigger profit margin installing vinyl or clad ("pergo") floors - They can get in and out, and walk away. So they'll give you every reason why "real hardwood floors" won't last, are a poor investoment, too much upkeep, etc. etc. etc...
Also, putting in hardwood floors - the old school type - takes a certain amount of craftsmanship and skill, and honestly, the guys who did floors for 40 years and teach apprentices to their standard are few and far between, and for the BB floor stores, they can hire a couple 19 year olds to slap down a lot cheaper and turn a bigger profit.
As to the "the climate won't take hardwood floors" - or "pineboard floors" or whatever other BS they're spewing - I know personally houses over 150 years old in some humid, hot, dry, moist, frezing, and/or crazy climates that, oh gee whiz. those floors are still there and still (once taken care of) look spectacular.
When we sold our houses - the BIGGEST draw was the polished hardwood floors. Wasn't like that 50 years ago, but now it's a serious upgrade, and you'll get your $$$ out of it if you decide to sell. The only time I'd go Pergo or the like is if it were a cheap rental where I had no expectation of the renters maintaining the floors. I had them in one apartment I rented, and I honestly hated the stuff - cold, lifeless, and looked fake.
jar944
Well-known member
It's not really, I was honestly shocked at how cheap it was.
Send him down this way. Unless the market crashes or something else burns the budget, we are probably still aiming at a full hardwood floor.
In 97/98 we built a house in IL, and went with a lower grade oak. We actually liked the look better with slightly mismatched color, board length, and such as it gave the house a "classic" feel that was missing from perfectly matched clear wood floors.
duneslider
Well-known member
I agree, I don't think it is astronomical. Pre-finished has an install cost that isn't significantly different than LVP. If it's sand-in-place, it will have the added cost of the sanding/finishing but that basically puts install roughly double of the pre-finished. The cost of wood really isn't that bad, sure you can find really expensive stuff but if you aren't looking for something exotic the prices are pretty reasonable. A 2 1/4 oak can usually be had for very reasonable prices. A number 2 or 3 red oak can be found under $2 a square foot every day of the week, could probably find it close to $1 sq/ft.
In all honesty, tile is about on par with wood flooring when it comes to cost. Both of those require a higher degree of skill, training, and effort to install correctly. In the end, both are floors that will last a lifetime (or more) when done right.
Tiles scratch from repeated wear in the same place. However, overbuying for spares let's one easily replace damaged tiles.
Even spare grout is good to have on hand!
American Locomotive
Well-known member
Look at homes on your favorite home listing site - the overwhelming majority of them will have gray "wood" LVP floors throughout. It seems the majority of homes for sale these days are by flippers, and flippers want cheap and fast.
So it makes sense that most of the local flooring installers are going to be focusing on cheap and fast options.
So it makes sense that most of the local flooring installers are going to be focusing on cheap and fast options.
Stuart in MN
Well-known member
It's gotten better looking over time but I've still never walked into a house with LVP flooring and wondered if it was real wood...it still looks like LVP.
duneslider
Well-known member
I think most people haven't ever had real wood flooring, so they don't really know what it is. I also think people get swayed by the "25 year warrany" that is slapped on the fake stuff. There are a lot of things that make the fake stuff a compelling sell, and I get it. As a contractor that did Tile and Hardwood, I hated installing the fake stuff even though it was quick easy money. I am probably going to put some sort of laminate type flooring in my basement, maybe. I'm having a hard time committing to it but I think it makes the most sense over concrete in a basement.
How old is the house? Did you check if there isn't hardwood under the carpet already? For a while it wasn't desirable and people put wall to wall carpeting over it.
Most new houses and renos people use the fake stuff and most flooring places only install that because it's easier for them. But you should be able to find a place that does it. The climate thing is BS.
Most new houses and renos people use the fake stuff and most flooring places only install that because it's easier for them. But you should be able to find a place that does it. The climate thing is BS.
jar944
Well-known member
I haven't seen fake HW in new builds out here, plenty in remodels though. There is no luxury in lvp..
My sister in law is a interior designer and for some reason spec'd lvp for my inlaws remodel, it was a replacement for the terrible looking pergo installed 25 years ago. Thr lvp is 2/3 years old, looks like ****, has end gaps the contractors wont/can't fix. It's a cheap product for people looking to spend as little as possible, or contractors trying to scam un-knowledgeable home owners.
duneslider
Well-known member
The answer is can't fix it. That's one of the biggest issues with click together flooring, the only way to "fix" something is tear it all out to wherever the issue is and replace the piece and then put it all back together. Ain't gonna happen! No matter what tiktok says, you aren't fixing it. This is one of the main reasons I hate installing it, I can't stand behind it. I hate getting the phone call, "Hey when we were moving in something got dropped on the floor and broke one of pieces, can you come fix it?" Nope, get yourself a rug...
67carl
Well-known member
I bought a 1950's house that was originally was a 2 bed 1 bath with hardwood floors in the bedrooms, hallway and dining room, which they covered with carpet in the 70's (****, baby). They added a living room, bedroom and bathroom in the 1960's that were vinyl or carpet.
Shortly after I bought it, I had all the non-wood floors changed to wood to match the original floors (mix of red/white oak), and they sanded all of the floors, old and new so they'd match. Only the bathrooms were not wood. That was something. I had to move my entire house into the garage, on the deck and in the bathrooms. Turned out great and I don't regret it for a minute.
I will never voluntarily have carpet again.
When I redid the garage, I installed cabinets I found on Craigslist. For the tops, I liked the house floors so much I went to the supplier and bought the same oak, which I installed myself.
It was definitely a lengthy process to find someone who did good work, was available, responsive, showed up when he said and charged a fair price. Much like trying to find any other contractor. I did get lucky and it turned out well.
Shortly after I bought it, I had all the non-wood floors changed to wood to match the original floors (mix of red/white oak), and they sanded all of the floors, old and new so they'd match. Only the bathrooms were not wood. That was something. I had to move my entire house into the garage, on the deck and in the bathrooms. Turned out great and I don't regret it for a minute.
I will never voluntarily have carpet again.
When I redid the garage, I installed cabinets I found on Craigslist. For the tops, I liked the house floors so much I went to the supplier and bought the same oak, which I installed myself.
It was definitely a lengthy process to find someone who did good work, was available, responsive, showed up when he said and charged a fair price. Much like trying to find any other contractor. I did get lucky and it turned out well.
We went on Vacation to St. Martin when they redid our floors. Win-Win!
We made the mistake of having two room in carpet when we build the house.
We had those rooms updated to hardwood to match the rest of the first floor.
One room required "basket weaving" in new boards so you could not find the old separation line.
The other had a threshold of boards at 90 deg to visually highlight the two rooms that were mostly open to each other.
In both cases the new floor matched the old perfectly and the transition aesthetic worked perfectly.
We did take the refinishers suggesting of going a tone darker stain to help at all blend, so we went from "Clear" to a mix of 1/2 clear, 1/2 "Honey Oak" stain.
We made the mistake of having two room in carpet when we build the house.
We had those rooms updated to hardwood to match the rest of the first floor.
One room required "basket weaving" in new boards so you could not find the old separation line.
The other had a threshold of boards at 90 deg to visually highlight the two rooms that were mostly open to each other.
In both cases the new floor matched the old perfectly and the transition aesthetic worked perfectly.
We did take the refinishers suggesting of going a tone darker stain to help at all blend, so we went from "Clear" to a mix of 1/2 clear, 1/2 "Honey Oak" stain.
Laminate is a gold mine for installers. They only have to make one trip. They charge the same or more to install the wood. In 3 years the homeowners find out that they need new floors because the cheap **** they installed swelled up from a dog that peed on the floor and they can sell a whole house worth of floor because the old laminate is no longer available.
In reality, unfinished 3/4" is way easier and faster to install and it can be installed tighter. Be carful not to chip that pre-finished floor. The finishing is real work and requires several trips. They are still out there, but the result lasts 100 years. If a few boards need to be replaced, you can likely match the old floor, but the grain might be looser.
Just like people painting brick. It is fast for quick for a flip. Just trash. Trash trash trash.
In reality, unfinished 3/4" is way easier and faster to install and it can be installed tighter. Be carful not to chip that pre-finished floor. The finishing is real work and requires several trips. They are still out there, but the result lasts 100 years. If a few boards need to be replaced, you can likely match the old floor, but the grain might be looser.
Just like people painting brick. It is fast for quick for a flip. Just trash. Trash trash trash.
nh_yota
Well-known member
I absolutely hate wall-to-wall carpet. I grew up in a house with carpet everywhere except the kitchen, bathrooms and front entryway. The house always stunk of pet stains and mildew, and no matter how many times it was cleaned it never really looked clean. My parents' current house is half carpet because they at least had the sense to put engineered hardwood in the addition when it was built.
My house is 200 years old and has solid wood flooring (mix of oak and pine) everywhere except the engineered oak in the kitchen and the tile in the downstairs bathroom. I have no idea how old it is and the last time any of it was refinished was over 20 years ago, so it's a little banged up and worn in spots. I still love it and I cover the worn spots with carpet runners that I can throw in the laundry.
A properly finished hardwood floor is probably more resilient than anything but commercial VCT. Cleaning up spills is easy, it won't crack like tile if you drop something on it, and it can be refinished. You just need to be careful when it's located near water sources (doors, appliances, sinks) because long-term water exposure can warp and stain it.
My house is 200 years old and has solid wood flooring (mix of oak and pine) everywhere except the engineered oak in the kitchen and the tile in the downstairs bathroom. I have no idea how old it is and the last time any of it was refinished was over 20 years ago, so it's a little banged up and worn in spots. I still love it and I cover the worn spots with carpet runners that I can throw in the laundry.
A properly finished hardwood floor is probably more resilient than anything but commercial VCT. Cleaning up spills is easy, it won't crack like tile if you drop something on it, and it can be refinished. You just need to be careful when it's located near water sources (doors, appliances, sinks) because long-term water exposure can warp and stain it.
Just_Steve
Well-known member
Won't crack but will dent but that only adds character.
Jeff Ivers
Well-known member
I like wood floors, too. Today, while placing a porcelain tile order, I asked about installing wood floor on my concrete slab construction house. First you install a vapor barrier, then 3/4" plywood, then tar paper (or perhaps another vapor barrier) and then the 3/4" wood. Then, the wood has to be sanded and finished in place. This results in a 1.5 inch height discrepancy with other flooring areas and probably takes it out of the DIY category and into pro install.
Did this yesterday. Excess Hickory T&G from Habitat resale. Total $5.00 including some shim stock for various projects. I installed a guaranteed hickory floor in the kitchen decades ago. Dishwasher plugged up & overflowed. Didn't know it till the water topped the planking
. Two days later it settled down & looks like it was just installed.Did lobby/stairs/LR/DR/Kit & Hallways in edge nailed bamboo about 20 years ago. Kept main floor BRs in WtW). Wife is paranoid about scratches and dents and there are a few (kids have 90 lb. dog that is here often). Yeah, wood (pun intended) have preferred hardwood but not as easy around here. Both raised in military so no intention of moving anywhere but onto farm or such - been here 45 years so this is "home" to our kids - and could not imagine having LVL in our home. Have looked at new built housing as little kid (Smurfer Girl) moves around and have come to realize the 99% of builders build a cheap house or an expensive house from same materials with same labour and subs so actual quality builders and buildings extremely rare and expensive. I expect that follows the same pattern in flooring biz.
That cannot always be done easily. To do that in my home would likely destroy the original plaster walls.
The original pine floors in my 140 year old home still look good. They have life scars but I would not replace them for anything.
jives
Well-known member
Also live in "upstate" (okay, central) NY. Plenty of real wood floors. We are just about to have large vinyl tiles installed (not imitation wood planks) throughout the entire living/dining/kitchen area. Despite the naysayers, it looks great, cleans well, is soft on the feet, and is considerably less than wood. Wood would make our kitchen cabinet and floor reno out of reach. Our current floor is a stained concrete slab and after years is hard on our feet.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Those aren't "scars". They are character lines !
You don't have to pull the whole baseboard, just the 1/4 round to ge a good looking installation.That cannot always be done easily. To do that in my home would likely destroy the original plaster walls.
The original pine floors in my 140 year old home still look good. They have life scars but I would not replace them for anything.
P.S. That should be done for any type of flooring.