Wrench97
Well-known member
Yea they want us to fight the front seal leak under vacuum issue(pressure pushes it out to seal) that doesn't exist on sealed units.
Thinking about buying an AC recovery machine
- Thread starter cgrutt
- Start date
Pretty sure compressor is OK (it was working fine before it stopped last week). Not seized up. Still has refrigerant. I removed clutch and pulley and the clutch was in bad shape. Rubber in-between the outter shell and inner plate was completely blown apart and it was no longer attached. The face was also in rough shape had two pronounced grooves with matching grooves on the pulley. The bearing in pulley was still in tact but felt a little gritty. I was going to just order a clutch and bearing but thought it would be best to replace entire pulley due to the grooves on face. Looked at aftermarket kits but wasn't sure if they were identical and would work with the oem magnetic coil. Also most of the reviews were mixed some good some bad. Anyway just ordered the OEM Motorcraft parts. Should have them on Tuesday.
Oh, is there a tool that holds clutch in place while bolt is being loosened/tightened? Tried oil filter wrench which probably would have worked if compressor was off vehicle but I left it attached and didn't have much room. Wound up using a prybar which worked but clutch was already shot don't want to do that with the new part. There's no holes or anything where a spanner would fit.
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Wrench97
Well-known member
This is the most common one.
But I know there are a couple I've had to use a strap wrench on.
But I know there are a couple I've had to use a strap wrench on.
Yeah I know about that style but there are no holes to put the pins in. Strap wrench may work thanks.This is the most common one.
But I know there are a couple I've had to use a strap wrench on.
This is style that is on my truck. I wish I had the flip up fan shroud that would have made access a bit easier. Mine just blew up I didn't have the loud squealing that's on video. I also bought a smaller belt and replaced an idler pulley with a ribbed style and rerouted belt bypassing compressor because I was afraid it might have seized up on me before I had a chance to repair it. My pulley has no friction material left on it as shown on the video glad I ordered a new one. Apparently just use a small impact to get the clutch off I should have tried that but just used a ratchet. Anyway good video if anyone finds themselves in same predicament with 2004-2008 Ford.
Spot on. The cost of DIY recovery gear for just a couple of jobs rarely makes sense anymore, especially with environmental rules changing so fast.
75gmck25
Well-known member
I'm considering a recovery of the R134a from my '75 GMC pickup so that I can check out the old evaporator for leaks (original; might have a small leak), replace the orifice and accumulator, check hose connections, and then do a complete recharge. I may also make new hoses, in an attempt to improve the routing and make it easier to work on the engine. The A/C is currently working, but has gradually lost some charge over the last couple of years, so its cooling is not very effective.
If I buy a recovery machine and tank, what do you do with the R134a that is recovered? Is there somewhere you take it for disposal, or is the assumption that you could filter it and use it to refill the system?
FYI - I live in Northern Virginia, where its difficult to find a small shop that has experienced mechanics and wants to bother with working on an old A/C system. They have plenty of business from newer vehicles where they can hook up an automated machine and let it do all the work.
If I buy a recovery machine and tank, what do you do with the R134a that is recovered? Is there somewhere you take it for disposal, or is the assumption that you could filter it and use it to refill the system?
FYI - I live in Northern Virginia, where its difficult to find a small shop that has experienced mechanics and wants to bother with working on an old A/C system. They have plenty of business from newer vehicles where they can hook up an automated machine and let it do all the work.
If recovery unit has filter and dryer believe you can reuse the recovered refrigerant in your system.
Wrench97
Well-known member
Yes you recover for reuse. Contaminated refrigerant needs to go to a reclaimer like Agas in a DOT certified bottle, most HVAC supply houses can also take it some will buy it others will charge you to take it.
joel63
Well-known member
To me, that's what it's all about. Something that I've subscribed to in my time.
Well scratch that its the wrong model number (not certified for automotive) I just canceled it.
Turns out it actually is approved by EPA for automotive but doesn't include some accessories that are in the 69110 kit. I may reorder...
Turns out it actually is approved by EPA for automotive but doesn't include some accessories that are in the 69110 kit. I may reorder...
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aggie113
Well-known member
if you are hoping to dispose of old refrigerant properly, be sure a local gas recycler will take stuff from regular folks.
So apparently the difference between 69100 and 69110 is the 69110 is explicitly marketed for automotive and includes high side hose and quick connect. Both use same pump and compressor. I checked EPA site and both models are approved for automotive. I reordered and added the high side hose and connector (plus a tee adapter) so its basically the same.
Hoping to reuse the recovered refrigerant after I replace compressor.
Ordered a compressor (kit including expansion valve and receiver dryer / accumulator) and new serpentine belt for wife's car today.
Also ordered a new manifold, set of hoses, micron gauge and a refrigerant scale. Should be pretty much set as far as equipment goes.
Got home early today and the local Airgas store was actually open so decided to stop in. Picked up a small tank of Nitrogen and a purge regulator. Kinda surprised how much that cost but figured I'd use it to purge and pressure test system. They sold me a Snith 30-450-580 regulator for the Nitrogen. Balked at the price but it seems like pretty good quality.. Body appears to be brass.
Also ordered a new manifold, set of hoses, micron gauge and a refrigerant scale. Should be pretty much set as far as equipment goes.
Got home early today and the local Airgas store was actually open so decided to stop in. Picked up a small tank of Nitrogen and a purge regulator. Kinda surprised how much that cost but figured I'd use it to purge and pressure test system. They sold me a Snith 30-450-580 regulator for the Nitrogen. Balked at the price but it seems like pretty good quality.. Body appears to be brass.
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Snapped-off
Well-known member
These are pretty nice recovery machines. Very fast. 
pcmeiners
Well-known member
How much was this unit?
Snapped-off
Well-known member
$10k.
Started working on wife's car today. The recovery machine seems to work pretty good recovered 1.94 lbs out of 2.1 to 2.17 lbs capacity. The expansion valve was a PITA due to location but I got that changed.
Nitrogen purge seems to work good but I had pressurized system with about 4 psi after recovery. Small burst of pressure sprayed a bunch of PAG oil over firewall and my hand when I disconnected the hose going into expansion valve. Wasn't expecting that haha.
Used the micron gauge to prep recovery tank. That worked good. Used the manifold during recovery to draw from both high side and low side. Didn't get any oil out of recovery machine. I'll dump it out of compressor when I pull it out tomorrow and see how much was in it. Looking for about 4 oz.
Nitrogen purge seems to work good but I had pressurized system with about 4 psi after recovery. Small burst of pressure sprayed a bunch of PAG oil over firewall and my hand when I disconnected the hose going into expansion valve. Wasn't expecting that haha.
Used the micron gauge to prep recovery tank. That worked good. Used the manifold during recovery to draw from both high side and low side. Didn't get any oil out of recovery machine. I'll dump it out of compressor when I pull it out tomorrow and see how much was in it. Looking for about 4 oz.
Well got the Mercedes sorted out turned out to be a difficult project but finally got it back together. It completely resolved the main issue with noise that has probably been going on for past ten years! Car sounds new again. Had a bunch of issues getting it to pull and hold a vacuum I wound up buying another new expansion valve and got it sorted out. I believe I had that in and out three separate times trying to track down a very small vacuum leak. Was only able to pull system down to 580 microns but close enough. It stabilized and held at about 800 before I charged system. Charging was also an issue. Wound up using 12 oz cans and a hair drier to create a pressure differential. Weighed out 2.17 lbs which is the exact spec but suspect I'm a little under (but probably within spec 2.1 lbs + 0.07 lbs) that with minor loss in lines etc. Had center register reading 44 F it was very cold and fresh feeling on a warm muggy night.
We're heading upstate tomorrow morning (should have left today but have major issue with my truck... ugh) so had to get the car back together for the holiday weekend. More on the truck and other projects I have lined up for the Mercedes next week. Very happy with the new equipment little bit of a learning curve but it all seems to work great.
We're heading upstate tomorrow morning (should have left today but have major issue with my truck... ugh) so had to get the car back together for the holiday weekend. More on the truck and other projects I have lined up for the Mercedes next week. Very happy with the new equipment little bit of a learning curve but it all seems to work great.
Wrench97
Well-known member
Getting a low micron reading on a automotive system is impossible, the front seal of the compressor is designed to hold pressure in, when placed under a vacuum they will leak. One of the reasons you have sealed compressors in HVACR.
I was running into that very frustrating! Had vacuum down into 700s thinking all was good then it would suddenly spike well into 1000s come down a bit but never recover. Pressurize with nitrogen to 150 psi and it seemed leak free. I suspected o ring collapsed under vacuum but held tight under pressure but also wasn't quite sure if it was with my equipment or not. I think in my case it was expansion valve it had four different size o rings and may have mixed up which one went where. Overall quite the learning experience!
Wrench97
Well-known member
Na the compressor seal is a lip seal similar to a wheel seal it will get so low then burp, don't fret it that's why the receiver/dryer/accumulator has a bag of desiccant in it.
Believe the issue I was struggling with was definitely the expansion valve not being seated 100% it resolved after I swapped it for a 2nd brand new one. It was only on vacuum held pressure fine.
That's awesome!! 4 months ago (almost) everyone was saying not to purchase equipment and here you are now having fun.
signcrafter
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 9, 2012
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- 12,647
Couldn't you reuse the 134 you recovered, or does your recovery machine not do that? You said you charged from 12oz cans. If I spend that much on equipment I would want to be able to reuse the refrigerant when I recover it.
Curious the cost of your nitrogen and regulator if you feel like sharing it or PMing me it. I've been thinking about getting nitrogen also. I've never seen anyone purge with nitrogen after recovering a system. When you unhooked your lines were you able to plug them right away before the system lost the nitrogen pressure? I get his theory of not letting air in but usually you are opening up the system and exposing it to air when doing repairs. Not always possible to plug things and keep the system pressurized when doing repairs. Most common repair I do is for a compressor that died so I replace the compressor, condenser, expansion valve, and dryer and flush the lines and evaporator the best I can. Pretty hard to keep the system pressurized when doing that unless you were to replace one part at a time and plug the rest of the system to keep it pressurized. I'm not an expert but thought that purging with nitrogen after opening the system and doing the repairs and then pulling a vacuum to boil any air and moisture out was acceptable. Think most shops even skip the nitrogen purging from what I have seen and just pull a vacuum after repairs before charging.
Glad the equipment you bought worked out for you. I'm still thinking about what all I want to get or which direction I want to go. Will your setup also work for 1234yf if you buy another recovery tank?
What micron gauge did you go with?
I decided to use fresh cans believe it was only $45 at NAPA so just bought them and went that route instead. I still have the recovered refrigerant and will probably use it on a future project.
I don't have exact cost of nitrogen but want to say about $500. I bought it at a local welding supply so am sure I paid more than I could have found it for online but I own the tank and believe regulator is actually a pretty good one. I wound up using it more than I expected chasing the small leak so very glad I bought it. When I initially opened system there was only a small positive pressure and I placed rubber plugs in ends of all lines but the nitrogen was gone as soon as I opened system. From what I understand (and I'm a complete nube at this) the theory is you just don't want the vacuum from recovery sucking ambient air back into system when you open it so nitrogen creates a small positive pressure instead of a vacuum. Either way I found it far more useful for checking for leaks and glad I had it. I originally had a leak at drier and wound up using slightly thicker orings than what came with new drier to fix that issue. That was easy to track down with the nitrogen.
The micron gauge is the BluVac+ Pro seems awesome and I was actually using the app to track vacuum. It is so sensitive I probably wouldn't even known I had a problem with expansion valve without it. As a side note I also found out my Harbor Freight manifold is junk and won't hold a deep vacuum by itself let alone connected to vehicle. I was having so many problems chasing the microscopic leak I switched manifolds to make sure problem wasn't the new manifold. The small leak immediately turned into a massive one (at the micron level) with Harbor Freight manifold connected haha.
I don't have exact cost of nitrogen but want to say about $500. I bought it at a local welding supply so am sure I paid more than I could have found it for online but I own the tank and believe regulator is actually a pretty good one. I wound up using it more than I expected chasing the small leak so very glad I bought it. When I initially opened system there was only a small positive pressure and I placed rubber plugs in ends of all lines but the nitrogen was gone as soon as I opened system. From what I understand (and I'm a complete nube at this) the theory is you just don't want the vacuum from recovery sucking ambient air back into system when you open it so nitrogen creates a small positive pressure instead of a vacuum. Either way I found it far more useful for checking for leaks and glad I had it. I originally had a leak at drier and wound up using slightly thicker orings than what came with new drier to fix that issue. That was easy to track down with the nitrogen.
The micron gauge is the BluVac+ Pro seems awesome and I was actually using the app to track vacuum. It is so sensitive I probably wouldn't even known I had a problem with expansion valve without it. As a side note I also found out my Harbor Freight manifold is junk and won't hold a deep vacuum by itself let alone connected to vehicle. I was having so many problems chasing the microscopic leak I switched manifolds to make sure problem wasn't the new manifold. The small leak immediately turned into a massive one (at the micron level) with Harbor Freight manifold connected haha.
Oh just thought about something else not sure if it is issue with all cars or not but turns out I needed a scan tool to clear low pressure code (in the ac system not a standard obdii code) triggered by Mercedes system that prevented new compressor from working immediately after charging system. The ac light in vehicle was flashing and compressor didn't seem to work at first. Checked with my Autel and sure enough there was a trouble code that had to be cleared before compressor would start. Wasn't expecting that.