Anyone know anything about septic systems? (This seems closet to a "Plumbing" forum here)

[larry4406]

Here to hook up to sewer there are multiple fees:

• The entity that paid to install the sewer (new nearby condo complex, housing subdivision, etc) is required to install excess capacity so that other parcels along the way can ultimately hook up. They get reimbursed for this.
• Parcels that front on this new sewer are eligible to connect to the sewer. They pay what is known as a "Tap Fee". This is rather large here in my area ($15 - 35k per parcel). This tap fee partially reimburses the firm that installed the new main.
• Then you get to pay for your sewer lateral plumbing permit.
• Then you get to pay your contractor to connect your parcel to the sewer with inspections.
• Then you get to pay for your yard repair after the plumber is done. Plus any concrete or other damage.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

Getting a sewer hook up estimate at about $20k.

That’s cheap compared to a new septic system.…….. When you sell your home you will have to hook up to the sewer (if available) so you might as well do it now.

BTW! "SOME" banks will not give a mortgage if you have a septic "IF" there is city sewer available.

 

[N_Jay]

That’s cheap compared to a new septic system.…….. When you sell your home you will have to hook up to the sewer (if available) so you might as well do it now.

BTW! "SOME" banks will not give a mortgage if you have a septic "IF" there is city sewer available.

Yes, cheaper than a new system. Was hoping a line cleaning would get me a few more years.

Nope, no problem selling and "No problem" getting a mortgage.

 

[scooby074]

Getting a sewer hook up estimate at about $20k.

Thats not bad at all in my area. Im off the road, but recent quote for hookup was $50k. They allow you to be grandfathered in here and stay on septic if you are over 250(?) ft from the road.

Ended up with bed replacement at $14k . 40yr old Tank was able to be saved, but is showing wear and will likely need replacement eventually.. The acids in septic liquid will erode the concrete in tanks.

 

[zendriver]

Yes, cheaper than a new system. Was hoping a line cleaning would get me a few more years.

Nope, no problem selling and "No problem" getting a mortgage.

Can the line be cleaned (or at least find where the problem is)?

 

[PCustoms]

Can the line be cleaned (or at least find where the problem is)?

See posts #31 and #33....

Cam/jetter guys do this all day

 

[zendriver]

See posts #31 and #33....

Cam/jetter guys do this all day

Sure, normally - if it's available, but it seems last thing OP was talking was a expensive hookup to city sewer.

 

[N_Jay]

Sure, normally - if it's available, but it seems last thing OP was talking was a expensive hookup to city sewer.

The issue is the tank and drain field are suspect, with no good way to test.

Need to either get the line clear, or open the tank to see if the line is the problem.

I am definitely in the "fix it cheap if possible" mode with a healthy dose of don't spend good money after bad on fixes that won't work.

The guy who pumped the tank a month ago, did the water jet thing.
Guessing he cleared the junk between the roots helping it glow, but the roots remained. Flowed for almost a month.

Next guy cleaned the pipe from the other end and pulled roots with an auger bit, but didn't think to use a cutter. Flowed for less than a day.

P.S. if a plumber gets his camera out, tell him "no thanks".

 

[PCustoms]

P.S. if a plumber gets his camera out, tell him "no thanks".

If that's your attitude then good luck with your new sewer tie in

 

[N_Jay]

OK, but when the camera costs almost twice the cleaning, somethig is a bit off.

 

[Fav Onefour]

OK, but when the camera costs almost twice the cleaning, somethig is a bit off.

Around here there are two prices for camera work. One is the normal cleaning and camera is used to help with the process. This is the cheaper version and is not recorded.
The expensive version is generally a recorded camera run. The run does not include cleaning. We are starting to see those required in sale transactions.
I'm not certain why the recorded run is expensive in relation to the blade run? I wonder if part of the higher expense is related to adding a cleaning run in most cases. I can't imagine many scenarios where someone would pay for a camera run that shows obstruction and then decide not to clean the line.
Some of the drain cleaning process has mysteries I still haven't figured out. The bigger blade run if possible is cheaper than the smaller version?

@N_Jay , I like your thoughts about being proactive for a just in case scenario. We had a tank sidewall collapse this summer during a heavy rain event. No warning and no preplanning for repair. The tank and field were only 23 years old and we were able to keep using the existing drain field. It still wasn't cheap. It was also a hassle to deal with a temp setup and mess while waiting for the contractor to get everything and time to do an install.
Being proactive also involves true knowledge of the existing problems and potential options. I'd have a good drain guy come in and do a proper cleaning with general mapping of problem areas. Maybe the roots are in a small section that simply hasn't been properly cleared? It sounds like you've had two versions of half cleaning. I'd also confirm the integrity of your tank. Sounds like that information isn't entirely clear.

Stay away from the snake oil drain companies. They are often the same companies with ads all over and fancy looking rigs. Those buggers are more like a sales crew. Every problem is going to be big bucks when they start playing and selling. I prefer dealing with guys that have been doing drains forever. They may not have fancy equipment and small talk seems like a waste of their time.

I've dealt with a fair amount of this **** in the last year. The bigger checks go to "emergency" situations. Line blockage usually happens on a Friday night. (I had two of those this year.) I think the tank even collapsed on a Saturday.
I had two pre-sale recorded runs and one was done with mapping. (Buyers selected and paid those companies but I saw the pricing. ) I did three mainline proactive cleaning runs. They did survey camera on those runs and one had a follow up recorded run with mapping. The three proactive runs combined, cost less than one Friday emergency run.

 

[AC-WC]

You need to follow up with the septic guy. He will tell you if regs say you can repair or be forced to connect to sewer. You will likely need to connect to sewer. I think it's state law in Indiana once the sewer is run you have to connect or pay way more in the future if you don't. I know several that had to do this.

 

[N_Jay]

Well, hook up is apparently optional and at a fixed price for the tap ($4250)
Given that the last 2 time anyone has touched the tank (just to pump) it has required repairs.
So if the line is bad, I don't think I am going to risk replacing it, but I don't think it is bad other than roots.

Since I was going out of town, and it was still running slow, I put in a load of "Foaming Root Killer" as I had heard it will often dissolve the smaller roots and stop the larger for growing.

Not sure was it did, but the drain seem OK for now, although thinking oaf adding another dose of Skeptic bacteria stuff as I am sure the root killer but a damper on the colony.

Plumber was going to come by so we can discuss next steps, but hasn't shown up. Maybe he is writing off my bill?

 

[casmurbax]

Any news?

 

[N_Jay]

Drain is working, plumber has not called back.

 

[N_Jay]

I love when I have a new problem and find my own old thread.

So story is; (old problem) all was working well on the line that was "rooted".
The basement drain (Basement toilet, laundry and kitchen) is working well, and septic tank seems to be at about the right (Drain field seems to be working and no soft/wet spots are in the yard.

New problem; main floor toilets, shower, and tub are slow (slow enough to back up after a flush or two and a shower.
Plumber wants to clean from tank in. I explain that going in that way puts you in lower/back of house line, and that line has no problem.
They do it anyhow and I catch them just as if they want further they would have made a mess of the basement bathroom. (Just like the last guys did).
They try a cleanout but can't get the cap off. Tell them they probably need to start from the roof.
They pull a toilet but can't get it to go the right way because old Y between back-to-back toilets does not have enough sweep.
Tell them again they need to start from roof.
They cut open a shower drain, but again can't get it to feed correctly. (So I mention they may need to go to the roof)
They go back to the cleanout, but don't seem to know how to open a stuck cap.
Then they go to the roof!
They pull out some roots, and call it good, reseat the toilet they lifted and flush twice and call it good.
I explain it takes more than two flushes to back up, we do two more and BAM, water backing up in upstairs bathrooms (Basement bathroom working fine.
SO we KNOW FOR A FACT that the problem is between the upstairs drain (Access available from roof or cleanout).
Guessing clog is below basement slab, somewhere before it connects to the man line (all 3" - 4" cast iron).
(The 3 to 4 flushes are the water held in the vertical pipe between floors.)

New crew cuts the cap off (DUH) scopes it from there and sees standing water when he gets to the bottom of the vertical riser.
Tries cleaning out, gets a few roots and tells us we need to cut the slab, because the "Y" under the slab is where the clog is.
AND is afraid to try to use the snake because it may get stuck.

Well I already snaked through the other side of that "Y" once before when I opened the basement drain.

I am guessing these roots have been in there since and finally built up enough debris to become a clog.

(Wow this is getting long)
So my plan is to rent a big snake (3+") open the new cleanout cap, and start from there. when I hit the clog, just planning on going slow and gentile with a cutter end till I get through. (Plumber would not use a cutter end)

If it gets stuck, I am no worse (as I will buy the insurance on the rental) and will still need to cut the basement floor.
If I get through, I am good till the next time (All the offending bushes have been removed).
If I bring back "mud" I know the pipe is broken, and again am no worse off.

SO . . . my question.

Has anyone actually gotten a drain snake stuck or broken, or is the plumber over worrying ?

 

[gimpyrobb]

Sounds like you have the same kind of luck I do. I hope for the best outcome with your cutting endeavors!

 

[DGersic]

Has anyone actually gotten a drain snake stuck or broken, or is the plumber over worrying ?

I got a hand snake stuck once. Had to cut the pipe to free it.

 

[N_Jay]

Reading up seems to say use a heavy snake 5/8 or 3/4.
Start with a small cutter or pointed end.
Work slow and once through, go back with a large cutter (1 inch under pipe size).

Also mentioned is iron pipe rusting through on the bottom. Fingers crossed!!!

 

[Sumboodie]

Yes, unless you water enough to justify an "outside water" meter, or an agricultural well.

Or you bypass the meter when it's water not going to the sewer.

 

[N_Jay]

And the saga continues.

Rented a 5/8" snake.
They had a selection of ends, so I took a small two-prong ~1 1\2 inch) and a large 2-prong (~2 1/2 to 3")
Used the small one first, and with some work was able to get all the way to the septic tank.
Then tried the big one, but not sure if I got near the clod before it hung up and almost got stuck.
Got it out and did a fast run to HD to swap the cutter for the only thing they had between the two.
The only thing was a very heavy hook like cutter.

I couldn't get it as far as i wanted to, as it seemed to like to hang up on every turn.

When I pulled it back it has a few roots on it.

I think I need to do some research drain snake ends, and figure out what what might work best.

 

[beltfeed]

Sewer lines don't need to be below the frost line.

Especially if you are sending some Taco Bell down the pipe!

 

[finn]

Here, once they run sewer line by your property, you cannot get a permit to repair a septic system. If yours fails, you must hook into the sewer line. This also means you get a meter on your well, as that is how sewer is billed, based on water usage. You are not billed for the well water, but the gallons of water used determines the sewer bill.

This.

Once the municipality runs sewer lines in the neighborhood, they won’t issue permits for new or replacement septic systems.

They may grandfather your systems, but what I have seen, grandpa dies three to ten years after municipal sewers become available, or whenever the system fails.

And, no you can’t simply replace the tank without bringing the field to current code. That said, unless you have strange topography, an acre is enough to locate a new, built to code field.

They may require a mound system, though.