Group of old Snap-On and Williams industrial ratchets

[3baygarage]

These three came together so figured a post about them all together is in order

Just finished some hand cleaning, enough to satisfy anyway, so here they are. As you can tell they’ve seen some good use.

At first glance, nothing special really, but each has some interesting points, especially to someone like myself who collects ratchets.

Starting with the Snap-On:

It looks like a typical old 71-N ratchet, but looking at it you see a few things that jump out.


-rivets in place of screws
-1941 date code
-brass lever

-lock button for sockets

- a letter “P” stamped after the part number

If you guessed P for Power model, that’s correct.

Thanks to the Collectingsnapon site, there is an industrial catalog from ‘47 that calls this power model a P-71-N, as opposed to 71 N P.

A later 50’s industrial cat there has the model change to P-71M.

Pretty cool to see an industrial model locking ratchet marked 1941.

 

[3baygarage]

These JH Williams ratchets look like a pair of typical old S-50 plug ratchets of the 30’s onward.

You may be wondering about a couple things.

Why isn’t there a Williams logo on the head of the left ratchet?
Does the square opening appear larger on the right ratchet?

There is an odd reason why no Williams logo on the left, which you’ll see in a moment.

The right model is larger than normal. It’s 5/8” square instead of 1/2”. I can tell you this is very unusual to see a modified ratchet or perhaps ratcheting wrench like this in Williams brand! At first glance before taking a close look I was thinking shop modified, but I can tell you the square is broached the exact same as the 1/2” next to it, with reliefs in the center of each wall. Even more odd, it doesn’t bear a SPECIAL stamp which Williams so loved to use back in the day.

 

[3baygarage]

A look at the other side of these ratchet heads.

All kinds of craziness. These numbers, letters, a partial octagon stamp that looks a bit familiar to me. You may have seen something like it before. could these things be a missing link?

 

[3baygarage]

Finally, WTF? Detroit who?

I got nothin’. Absolutely nothin’.

All I know is the mysterious numbers and octagon have taken me to Alloy Artifacts where they had a ratchet with the octagon stamp, a ratchet that matches a couple I have that appeared to be early Milwaukee (MTF) brand.

From AA:

 

[3baygarage]

So I guess the question is, were multiple companies (Williams, MTF), making tools for Detroit Tool and Manufacturing Company, whatever that may be? Or am I way off? I have seen the octagon logo at least one other time on an old deep socket on the bay. I think it was a Bonney socket iirc.

Anyhow, these tools came from Arizona, so they they could have easily migrated south from Detroit and an industrial setting.

 

[bonneyman]

I might be way out on a limb here, so take it FWIW.

Some of my Cam-Loc wrenches are marked "TFK, Detroit 2 USA", while others are marked "SwageLoc, St. Claire Shores".
Come to find out St. Claire Shores is a suburb of Detroit. Seems to me - being Detroit was such a manufacturing mecca back in the day - companies might farm out production to nearby shops to keep up with demand. Exact same tool, different stamp.

So maybe your Williams wrench is a farmed-out model to someone called Detroit Tool? Maybe?

 

[3baygarage]

Thanks, that appears to be what it is B-man. The stumper is who is Detroit Tool & Manufacturing Company? I was also trying to see if that small piece of a stamp on that ratchet is tied to the other DTM stamps. I swear someone identified DTM as something else in the past.

I can say it is not uncommon to see old wrenches by Williams for other old companies in machinery and such, but a ratchet is unusual, especially without Williams numbers or markings. I found that especially interesting.

I wonder if there is a way to look up what appears to be an old SS # on the handles. There are several other engravings but hard to make them out.

 

[Provincial]

I have some older Snap-On 5/8" drive stuff. Not industrial finish. 5/8" drive was popular with electrical utility companies.

I can see where 5/8" drive would be a choice in an industrial setting in that era.

 

[3baygarage]

I have some older Snap-On 5/8" drive stuff. Not industrial finish. 5/8" drive was popular with electrical utility companies.

I can see where 5/8" drive would be a choice in an industrial setting in that era.

That makes sense as 5/8 drive impact sockets and adapters have been used.

 

[bonneyman]

Maybe they did it in 5/8" drive so workers wouldn't walk off with sockets for home use as they could if it were 1/2". (The 5/8" square hole looks like it's maxing out the gear center, using the same gear as the 1/2" drive).

Sort of like how some makers did 9/32" drive to counter the theft of 1/4" drive tools.

 

[snapmom]

Have not seen that p rat before, nice

 

[3baygarage]

Have not seen that p rat before, nice

Well Snapmom if you haven’t seen it, then I’m not as crazy as I thought, because I was convinced I hadn’t seen one either.

 

[JSCraftsman]

These three came together so figured a post about them all together is in order

Just finished some hand cleaning, enough to satisfy anyway, so here they are. As you can tell they’ve seen some good use.

At first glance, nothing special really, but each has some interesting points, especially to someone like myself who collects ratchets.

Starting with the Snap-On:

It looks like a typical old 71-N ratchet, but looking at it you see a few things that jump out.


-rivets in place of screws
-1941 date code
-brass lever

-lock button for sockets

- a letter “P” stamped after the part number

If you guessed P for Power model, that’s correct.

Thanks to the Collectingsnapon site, there is an industrial catalog from ‘47 that calls this power model a P-71-N, as opposed to 71 N P.

A later 50’s industrial cat there has the model change to P-71M.

Pretty cool to see an industrial model locking ratchet marked 1941.

I always thought the "P" power rats were cool! And to keep a cool thread going, after seeing your PNo.71N, or P-71N or even No.71-NP, I just recently came into possession of a 1951 PNo.71M model, or P-71M as it's denoted in the catalog. I also have a 1941 PNo.71N as well. Except mine has the P stamp before the No.71N number, instead of after the model number as yours is. But I'm still searching for a 1930's P-71 to ice the cake... lol. Oh well, hopefully someday. But here are some pics of my PNo.71M. It has the welch plug pin detent anvil, with the industrial finish. Cool wrench models indeed! Regards!