Combination Wrench - do I need both anti slip and non anti slip open ends?

[roofdweller49]

So I need a set of open end wrenches (for automotive) and I'm thinking of Capri/Williams/stahlwille/wright (which offers both 10 and 15 degree off set box ends? Which one is "standard"?)

I've seen the torque test channel and others and the wrightgrips come on top, but mar the fasteners - is this an issue? Do I need a basic set of Capri or something to go with them?

 

[kbeefy]

I have some smooth jaw wrenches for light duty work on soft metals, like aluminum fittings.

I don't get too picky beyond that, I use whichever wrench has the greatest access due to it's design.

 

[Komet]

Marring the fasteners isn't an issue on other people's rides .

Seriously though, anti-slip is your friend if you're working on rust belt level 9 corrosion nightmares.

As a home gamer in the northwest, I never felt like I needed anti-slip, or that it would have made a difference. Open end is sorta the last resort in a compromised fastener situation as it tolerates the least torque. 15 degrees is the standard bend, it gives good knuckle access.

 

[richfinn]

I've been working on cars for 35 years (in rainy/rusty old England) and managed without "anti-slip" open end spanners to be honest.

If I use an open end it will be for adjustment typically, if I'm breaking loose rusty nuts and bolts I'm using the box end or a socket.

The only use I can think of where they might be useful is track rod end lock nuts??

 

[iamhomeless]

If you see yourself working on hydraulics, then angles and smooth jaws will be extremely helpful.

For home gamer automotive you can likely get by without either angle wrenches or grip jaws. But if you are planning on bying angle wrenches as well as combinations, I would get the grip feature on the combinations and smooth jaws on the angles.

No sense in having two sets of grip or smooth jaws.

 

[finn]

Probably more automotive fasteners have been turned over the last hundred years without any anti slip gimmickry than with.

Furthermore, with fewer and fewer conventional hex fasteners being used every year, along with the headlong rush to electric vehicles, I suspect that that fact will continue to be true at least for another hundred years.

 

[Fedwrench]

This is Garage Journal where the answer is always more

I say no. Now don't get me wrong, back in the day when I did a lot of front end work, a 21, 22, & 13mm snap on flank drive plus wrenches were a blessing. It all depends on the tasks you're performing and what you work on. as others have said, you should really use the open end if a boxed end just won't work. I think is much more important to have off corner engagement on the boxed end of a wrench and on your sockets.

 

[tamaraw]

So I need a set of open end wrenches (for automotive) and I'm thinking of Capri/Williams/stahlwille/wright (which offers both 10 and 15 degree off set box ends? Which one is "standard"?)

Sounds like you are talking about combination wrenches, not open end?

There is no "standard" but a lot tend to hover around 15 degrees plus or minus a few on the box end. Some like KTC's profit line or TOP Kogyo's models actually use a different angle on different sizes (larger angle on the smaller ones).

Besides the angle, there is also the question of how the wrench is actually built; i.e. DIN pattern ones where it swoops down for better clearance, American style ones where the beam just bends near the end for a lower profile, or the type with a straight beam that intersects the box socket at an angle. Not really a "best" option, just depends upon the particular application and personal preference.

I've seen the torque test channel and others and the wrightgrips come on top, but mar the fasteners - is this an issue? Do I need a basic set of Capri or something to go with them?

Those videos are entertaining, but less than practical for most automotive situations imho, since you don't typically want to use that sort of force on an open end to begin with.

If you didn't care about what you were working on (ex: flat rate shop) or had a ton of seriously corroded fasteners, then an aggressive toothed design could be the ticket.

But if it is something that you care about/plan to keep or has decorative fasteners (ex: chrome), then no, those aggressive tools would be less than desirable.

Some common automotive applications for an open end:

• Soft hydraulic/fluid fittings:
  Use a flare nut or smooth jaw, NOT toothed unless it is being replaced
  
  
• Tie rods:
  If it isn't seized up, a regular open end would be fine. Otherwise, a flare nut or pipe wrench will be better than a toothed open end.
  
  
• Quickly spinning stuff in before snugging it up with a box end:
  Doesn't matter
  
  
• Double wrenching to pull studs:
  Smooth jaws are more than sufficient
  
  
• Chrome or other plated fittings:
  Pliers wrench/adjustable wrench with plastic/taped jaw or a smooth jaw wrench, NEVER toothed.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I preferred my smooth jaw protos to my toothed Napa Carlyle, simply because the proto was a better tool. IMO you always want a "performance" open end, because in the rare times you have to use the open end you're already at a major disadvantage and need to level the playing field.

The "fastener damage" is just BS macro-lens stuff. In the real world on regular stuff you're not inspecting fasteners or getting close enough to see. 6 point sockets leave witness marks too BTW. If you have chromed over fasteners, maybe think twice. When was the last time you looked at a fastener to inspect it? When was the last time you got closer than 24", to inspect a fastener?

IMO if you buy a high quality open end wrench, it will still work well without teeth.

 

[tamaraw]

Besides the toothed designs, there is also this one used by Proto, Facom, and maybe some others:


Same idea as sockets where the corners are radiused out, it's designed to put force on the flats and not round off the corners or damage fasteners.

 

[M635_Guy]

I have anti-slip on the open end of my SK X-frames I bought mainly for the zero-offset ratcheting box end, but I can't recall ever needing it. (I really like the ratcheting end though)

 

[Komet]

When was the last time you looked at a fastener to inspect it? When was the last time you got closer than 24", to inspect a fastener?

I mean sometimes things get a little spicy over here at Amateur Hour:


But I certainly didn't do that with a hand tool .

 

[tamaraw]

I mean sometimes things get a little spicy over here at Amateur Hour:

That's one of those special fasteners designed to go with these sockets, lol:

 

[iamhomeless]

Probably more automotive fasteners have been turned over the last hundred years without any anti slip gimmickry than with.

Furthermore, with fewer and fewer conventional hex fasteners being used every year, along with the headlong rush to electric vehicles, I suspect that that fact will continue to be true at least for another hundred years.

Hex fasteners have a long life ahead of them in suspension, steering, brakes, and chassis components, and open end wrenches will be needed for a long time. Hell, I work on hybrid and electric vehicle motors and drive trains everyday, and my wrenches get used more than my impact does.

 

[finn]

Hex fasteners have a long life ahead of them in suspension, steering, brakes, and chassis components, and open end wrenches will be needed for a long time. Hell, I work on hybrid and electric vehicle motors and drive trains everyday, and my wrenches get used more than my impact does.

They’ll be here, but not in the dominant matter they were ten twenty, or fifty years ago.

And non slip is a “nice to have;” not a “must have”

 

[iamhomeless]

The "fastener damage" is just BS macro-lens stuff. In the real world on regular stuff you're not inspecting fasteners or getting close enough to see. 6 point sockets leave witness marks too BTW. If you have chromed over fasteners, maybe think twice. When was the last time you looked at a fastener to inspect it? When was the last time you got closer than 24", to inspect a fastener?

IMO if you buy a high quality open end wrench, it will still work well without teeth.

Fasteners get way more damage from using the wrong size wrench than from using a toothed wrench, and actually damaged fasteners belong in the scrap bin. Of course if people actually tossed stretched or damaged bolts and put in new hardware every now and again, we wouldn't need grip wrenches or extraction sockets.

A couple boxes of bolts may be cheaper than a set of flank drives or rbrts, but we all know which looks cooler in your tool box, and really isn't that what is truly important?

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I mean sometimes things get a little spicy over here at Amateur Hour:


But I certainly didn't do that with a hand tool .

Right, but I'd rather get it removed and all thrashed up, than sitting pristine still stuck. Actually that's probably a moot point as the rounded over fastener would likely look worse than the little tooth marks.

Run a chaser through it, hit the edges with a roloc wheel, I bet you can torque it up again.

 

[M635_Guy]

The "fastener damage" is just BS macro-lens stuff. In the real world on regular stuff you're not inspecting fasteners or getting close enough to see. 6 point sockets leave witness marks too BTW. If you have chromed over fasteners, maybe think twice. When was the last time you looked at a fastener to inspect it? When was the last time you got closer than 24", to inspect a fastener?

I have a vintage car worth a fair bit of money. I'm not damaging things unless absolutely necessary, and yeah, I look. I drive/use it, and it gets wear and tear, but I'd be an idiot to diminish its value needlessly.

For the other five family vehicles I maintain I'm not worried about it in the same way, but I still won't choose to mar things unnecessarily. I take care of my stuff

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I have a vintage car worth a fair bit of money. I'm not damaging things unless absolutely necessary, and yeah, I look. I use it, and it gets wear and tear, but I'd be an idiot to diminish its value needlessly.

For the other five family vehicles I maintain I'm not worried about it in the same way, but I still won't choose to mar things unnecessarily. I take care of my stuff

I'm with you man, for clean/pristine stuff get some cheaper smooth jaws to make love with.

When it NEEDS to come off, I gotta get it off. Fasteners are cheaper than possible collateral damage from extraction, drilling, torches, etc. For nice and rust free vintage cars, you can probably work on it with a $0.99 adjustable. The 2004 camry alignment needs help. The rotten oxygen sensor, as a brace on a rotten strut mount nut while I impact on the bolt because the cage-nut welds broke, etc.

 

[M635_Guy]

I'm with you man, for clean/pristine stuff get some cheaper smooth jaws to make love with.

When it NEEDS to come off, I gotta get it off. Fasteners are cheaper than possible collateral damage from extraction, drilling, torches, etc. For nice and rust free vintage cars, you can probably work on it with a $0.99 adjustable. The 2004 camry alignment needs help. The rotten oxygen sensor, as a brace on a rotten strut mount nut while I impact on the bolt because the cage-nut welds broke, etc.

Luckily I don't have rotten anything - one of the joys of living in the south. I obviously don't worry with anything that's coming off and not going back on.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

If you get the toothed anti-slip designed wrenches and see yourself working on brass, chrome, or soft metal fasteners then you will definitely need a second set with a smooth open end. My Wright wrenches tend to eat into the softer metals and deform the fasteners especially if I have to put some extra ugga-duggas into it. You can avoid this by getting the Williams Supercombo or any of the SBD brands with the ASD like the Protos. They use notches on the open ends that tend not to badly damage fasteners over time. They don’t work as well as my Wrights but it’s a trade-off. Personally, I keep my Wrights for outdoor use on like the car and lawn stuff and I keep my other wrenches for work and indoor stuff.

 

[ecotec]

I have a mixture of both. For the most part, I do not sweat which ones I use.

The Wrightgrips are definitely a standout in how much damage they can do.

If I was real worried about a vintage or just expensive fitting that I do not want to replace… I could make sure that I grab a wrench without an anti-slip design… but, honestly, most of the designs are fine for any fitting I come across. The anti-slip designs on the Snap-on, Proto, CATERPILLAR, and Williams (USA and Taiwan) are not aggressive enough for me to worry about.

I definitely would not use any anti-slip designs on tool collets or other hardware that is used repeatedly. I keep spare wrenches in the drawers with tools that need collet wrenches. This is a good use for vintage wrenches made before the flank drive patent expired, because I only use the open end.

As I said, I don’t think most of the anti-slip designs are aggressive enough to worry about 99% of the time. For me, as an estate sale shopper… the bigger issue would be that all the combination wrenches in my main drawers have off corner engagement on the box end.

I just do not think that combination wrenches made before the flank drive (not flank drive plus… I am referring to the box end) patent ended are as good as modern wrenches. Now that the patent has been long gone… the box end of pretty much any brand is good.

 

[cherrybomb]

I have Proto ASD and Stahwille, I feel like I have most situations covered and I live in the snow belt.

 

[Old Donn]

Last time I was at the shop I do business with, I asked the pros there this very question. Consensus was standard issue smooth jaw open ends worked fine. A zero offset box wrench was a better option for most limited access they ran across. Despite their input, and the glut of wrenches already in my tool chests, I popped for a set of Capri Wave Guide Pro combos in SAE last week. The old Chevy still has standard fasteners, if I need them, I've got them.

 

[roofdweller49]

Thanks, the pricing seems to be similar between the Williams USA and Stahlwille (from mister worker) - I'm working in my daily, which is a VW MKV Rabbit - and everything seems to have the replace with new fasteners warning

 

[VolvoRyan]

Get a good set of combination wrenches, then add the flavors later. As folks said, this is Garage Journal, you can't just have one set of wrenches.

Anti-slip (bitey/grabby) wrenches are special tools in my book. When you need them, you need them.... when you don't need them, you probably shouldn't use them. The Wright-Grips are excellent, but they leave their mark.

-Ryan

 

[Madjik Man]

“Do I need both…”

“Yes.” - GJ

 

[mike14_07]

Personally id get anti slip. For me if i have to use the open end it’s usually hidden or not easily seen. If i need to back up a line wrench or something i dont want marks on and i cant get a box end on, my ratcheting wrenches have smooth jaws. I did buy a cheap set of 6 point wrenches with smooth open ends for this but i dont think ive ever even used them.

 

[rust in the eye]

I have some Milwaukee combination wrenches with their anti slip feature at the open end. They work very well, I've been able to loosen corroded brake line fittings that would ordinarily require a flare type wrench with them.
They DO mar fasteners when lots of torque is applied but in my case those are already rusty so I don't much care.
When used to their potential they certainly do bite and this makes removing them to reposition a bit tedious but I'll take that over a rounded fastener all day long.
If the Milwaukees were longer they'd be my favorites.