Anyone else find Wera Kraftform tips soft?

Cryptic1911 · Oct 8, 2012

I bought a set of kraftforms like a month ago, and I LOVE the handles, and the tips were awesome the first time I used them (gripped awesome). We've put together some cabinets, and use the #2 philips a bit, but not abused it, and the goddamn end is all wore off already. The laser etched lines are gone, and the tip is a bit deformed. We have many other brand screwdrivers, and none of them are worn like this, even some that are older than I am.

What gives? I thought these were supposed to be the cats ***? :headscrat

superautobacs · Oct 8, 2012

I only use mine (1/4" bits) when I suspect a fastener is going to pose a headache in removal. I see them as being drivers that will help get you out of trouble....the big sell is that they resist anti-cam out. The high points on the anti-cam out surface (Wera laser etch/diamond coatings) will gradually wear down the high points on the surface that "bite" into the fastener, making them less effective.

Perhaps look into an impact driver like Vessel's Megadora Impacta--it might be a better alternative for your PH#2 applications. http://www.vessel.co.jp/english/info/2009/11/megadora-impacta.html

Pantsfall_McFixit · Oct 8, 2012

Oh man, don't tell me this, I just bought a bunch of Wera driver sets, 300, 900, and stainless. If this is true perhaps I will sell them, I need hard tips. Read somewhere that the stainless set is harder than the regular set, perhaps it was here. Wiha makes anti-camout drivers as well, although they only come in slotted and philips. Got a set, they do grip.

darkk · Oct 9, 2012

superautobacs said:
Perhaps look into an impact driver like Vessel's Megadora Impacta--it might be a better alternative for your PH#2 applications. http://www.vessel.co.jp/english/info/2009/11/megadora-impacta.html

Perhaps you didn't read the complaint very well. We are putting together a **** load of brand new house cabinets from IKEA not a rusted out truck. If you hit one of those screws with a hammer on an impact screwdriver, half the side made of particle board and melamine would drop off on the floor. We have only assembled roughly 11 cabinets so far with about 16 screws per. That's less than 200 screws. I have some snap-on and SK screwdrivers that are over 35 years old that I used almost everyday at work and have never failed me. Cryptic here decided we needed some fancy grippy ended pieces of **** that I feel were a waste of money. Nothing like a good old American made tool...

bcradio · Oct 9, 2012

Get the bosch gold tip bits and use a ratcheting screwdriver... No more complaints will be had. Also, I thought wiha were the highly rated german drivers on this board

wellpoison · Oct 9, 2012

It seems the bits that came with my kraftform komopact are soft I have already twisted one flat bit and broke another.. The laser etched ones that I have are pretty great but I only use them on occasion.

archirelic · Oct 9, 2012

This was discussed in another thread while back if I remember correctly, people were chiming in about the relative "softness" of the laser-tipped drivers. And maybe think about using something like a 12v driver w/clutch & variable speed control for the remainder of the work. I've worked on multitudes of cabinets over the last several years and I'd hate to be installing by hand all those screws.

Holt · Oct 9, 2012

I used my Kraftform laser tip to install 3 inch deck screws on low voltage boxes for houses for about a half a year until I got my bosch ps21 driver. Sure the laser etching was gone after about 2 months but the tip shape has not deformed at all. That was a ph2. My 5.5mm flat head still has the etching. ( got this the same time) and I have beat the pizz out of this thing with a hammer to the back and the tip has not deformed. The flat head was the sk version (hex shank) round shank for ph2. I did end up getting the chisel driver version for the ph2 due to it being yellow and easier to find in the snow if dropped. Its a beast as well. Seems like the wera are hit and miss for most. Some say good and some say they are ****. I love mine. Only thing I had go bad on me was a tiny flat head bit for there multi driver twisted like butter.

darkk · Oct 9, 2012

bcradio said:
Get the bosch gold tip bits and use a ratcheting screwdriver... No more complaints will be had. Also, I thought wiha were the highly rated german drivers on this board

I wish, ours are from the Czech Republic! Here's to CO and the tip...I'm really disappointed in the quality of this product. Even HF is better than this...

lbgradwell · Oct 9, 2012

That's just terrible. 200 screws?!

Carson_13 · Oct 9, 2012

Mine did the same thing within an hour of use. Got my money back continued using my 10-15 year old mac's. They were my first Wera product bought them because of this board I was pretty disappointed.

Cryptic1911 · Oct 9, 2012

lbgradwell said:
That's just terrible. 200 screws?!

Yup. When it was brand new, I could stick it in a philips screw and it would hang horizontally because of the laser cut grooves. Now it doesn't grip for **** (obviously)

bimmerZ5 · Oct 9, 2012

OK that's it, I'm taking wera screwdrivers off my Amazon wishlist. I've never heard of any quality Czech tools anyway... thought these were German.

Cryptic1911 · Oct 10, 2012

I just emailed Wera, let's see what they do about it

elvisslipperman · Oct 10, 2012

hi , i have given up with wera , the laser tips were good for about a week . Ive gone over to pb swiss there is no comparison .

RCRGarage · Oct 10, 2012

bcradio said:
Get the bosch gold tip bits and use a ratcheting screwdriver... No more complaints will be had. Also, I thought wiha were the highly rated german drivers on this board

lbgradwell said:
That's just terrible. 200 screws?!

I think the reason that they're so highly rated on this board is that the users who have purchased them havent driven 20 screws with them, let alone 200, but still praise them whenever given the chance. I guess they do look cool sitting in your toolbox, just appear to not be made for working... Which suits most of the owners just fine.

Cryptic1911 · Oct 10, 2012

yeah, too many tool polishers on here with 135 screwdrivers, so they probably never get any real use. It's too bad because their handle design is great

bimmerZ5 · Oct 10, 2012

Cryptic1911 said:
yeah, too many tool polishers on here with 135 screwdrivers, so they probably never get any real use. It's too bad because their handle design is great

yeah... i do like the handles, but if the metal is junk, that makes it pointless. i rather have a driver with good metal and crappy handle than the opposite. that's the one thing you really can't tell by the "design" of a tool... the quality of the metals used/ only experience will tell. and for these Wera, the experience isn't sounding so good...

bart1 · Oct 10, 2012

Cryptic1911 said:
yeah, too many tool polishers on here with 135 screwdrivers, so they probably never get any real use. It's too bad because their handle design is great

Monte has used his pretty hard. I recall him recommending the chiseldriver always and his seem to have been through some wars.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1994017&postcount=17

I am happy with my Wiha nd Felo made Hazet, but have never had any Wera.

bimmerZ5 · Oct 10, 2012

bart1 said:
Monte has used his pretty hard. I recall him recommending the chiseldriver always and his seem to have been through some wars.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1994017&postcount=17

I am happy with my Wiha nd Felo made Hazet, but have never had any Wera.

part of the problem with comparing the same tool from 3-4 yrs ago and what is being sold currently is that they may have changed supplier/factory that results in different quality. i had heard decent things about Wera and hence had them on my wishlist, but if the current ones being sold are junk, I'm no longer considering them until I hear better news.

i have most of the screw drivers I need for now anyway (mostly craftsman and craftsman pro/black handles) and some junk sets from HFT i got for free that I use for extreme abuse. I was mostly considering Wera for when I need to replace what i currently have.

darkk · Oct 10, 2012

Well, it's official folks! This particular screw driver has finally turned it's last screw. So everyone knows, the project at hand is about 12-13 *brand new* IKEA cabinets. Made of particle board. I predrilled all holes that were not already drilled. The screws are nothing special, they are what came with the cabinets. Most are under 1" in length and about 1/8" diameter. about 1/4 of them are those fat short screws that come with everything you buy made of particle board. No fancy hardened metals or exotic hardwoods. These screws are easy access so 99% were not at some obtuse angle. A few of the screws were removed and reinstalled so the count may be a little off. There were a few screws from another project so I added them into the total. But it has had full failure today with the additional 44 screws. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and say total failure was had in under 300 screws...here is the tip rounding off.

Cryptic1911 · Oct 10, 2012

Ah, it looks like they switched from Germany to Czech manufacturing at some point. Mine are from the Czech republic.. wonder if that's why they are soft

e30bradley · Oct 10, 2012

I think yours are defective.. I have 4 sets and use them a ton and they aren't worn like that.. Only one broke and my friend did that, not me.

e30bradley · Oct 10, 2012

Cryptic1911 said:
Ah, it looks like they switched from Germany to Czech manufacturing at some point. Mine are from the Czech republic.. wonder if that's why they are soft

all 4 sets I have are from their.. I bought my first set probably a year ago. I think I'll write a review for my wera ratchet because I'm pretty damn unhappy with it.. especially after paying $80 for it. I could have had snap on for that price.

Robbie UK · Oct 10, 2012

Mine have lasted pretty well and look nothing like your pictures, although a borrowed PH driver used on PZ screws looked abused.

Would I recommend them to others… well no because the Wera Chiseldrivers are fantastic and easily the most rugged and practical drivers I have ever come across.

woody 73 · Oct 10, 2012

I know a lot of our readers love those screwdrivers but I never liked the handles so I never bought any of them.

Not to sound like a broken record but I like those williams made screwdrivers that are pretty darn near 99.99% like the snap on screwdrivers at half the cost.

Notwerk · Oct 10, 2012

My bit driver has lasted pretty well. I can't complain. The handles work for my hands, but I guess that's a matter of preference.

If I had to do it again, though, I'd probably go with Felo or Wiha.

Cryptic1911 · Oct 10, 2012

Well, they emailed back and said they are shipping a replacement out today. They asked for a picture, so I sent them a copy of what was posted here earlier

decaf · Mar 10, 2013

RCRGarage said:
I think the reason that they're so highly rated on this board is that the users who have purchased them havent driven 20 screws with them, let alone 200, but still praise them whenever given the chance. I guess they do look cool sitting in your toolbox, just appear to not be made for working... Which suits most of the owners just fine.

Ok, here is a screwdriver i bought 2007 Oct.

I´ve used it everyday in the field as a service tech i am. Approx 3-7 times a day and this is how it looks now.

I can´t complain about it. It has served me well.

neophyte · Mar 10, 2013

The Ikea cabinets probably came with POZIDRIVE SCREWS, pozidrive screws aren't meant to be turned with a phillips screwdriver. It will likely cam out the screw, and/or possibly damage the tip of your phillips screwdriver.

Dieselbutterfly · Mar 10, 2013

very good point neophyte,i have the snap on pozi drive bit socket,i have wondered how well it would turn a philips screw,but i have not tried to turn a pozi drive screw with a philips bit...yet,btw. too many damn philips type drives,why not just use torx or allen head types.also how did you make your print so large

Diffident · Mar 10, 2013

Dieselbutterfly said:
,btw. too many damn philips type drives,why not just use torx or allen head types.

I wish we would move to Robertson square screws and be done with it. IMHO they are the best of them all.

neophyte · Mar 10, 2013

Dieselbutterfly said:
very good point neophyte,i have the snap on pozi drive bit socket,i have wondered how well it would turn a philips screw,but i have not tried to turn a pozi drive screw with a philips bit...yet,btw. too many damn philips type drives,why not just use torx or allen head types.also how did you make your print so large

Allen head screwdrivers can occasionally get confusing because there are both metric sizes, and fractional/decimal inch sizes. Torx drivers are sometimes close enough in size that I've used the wrong one. It wasn't a problem but under certain circumstances I can see it being one. In that instance I believe I was using an incomplete set of drivers. I like Diffident's comment about square drive screwdrivers. The square Drive /Robertson Drive socket design supposedly isn't capable of handling the higher torque torx screwdrivers can. I believe this has something to do with the amount of surface area on the driver tip that contacts the screw. There are some newer drive types that don't really look like other common or uncommon drives that supposedly can handle higher torques, maybe one of them will take off.
I got the type large by highlighting the text, then I used the Sizes drop down menu that's next to Fonts drop down menu above the text entry box.

gmt · Mar 10, 2013

I think you are correct neophyte. I bought a used set of Felo 552 screwdrivers from Amazon as a second set for the garage. Both phillips drivers in the set had wear like the OP's picture showed. To me it was a case of using the wrong driver tip type for the screw and probably if the person that bought the set originally from Amazon was a member here we would see a thread about Felo tips being soft.

neophyte · Mar 10, 2013

gmt said:
I think you are correct neophyte. I bought a used set of Felo 552 screwdrivers from Amazon as a second set for the garage. Both phillips drivers in the set had wear like the OP's picture showed. To me it was a case of using the wrong driver tip type for the screw and probably if the person that bought the set originally from Amazon was a member here we would see a thread about Felo tips being soft.

lbgradwell · Mar 10, 2013

neophyte said:
The Ikea cabinets probably came with POZIDRIVE SCREWS, pozidrive screws aren't meant to be turned with a phillips screwdriver.

Actually, when I think about it, I believe every Ikea product I've ever seen uses Pozidriv.

I think neophyte has the explanation here...

4xdog · Mar 10, 2013

neophyte said:
The Ikea cabinets probably came with POZIDRIVE SCREWS, pozidrive screws aren't meant to be turned with a phillips screwdriver...[/SIZE]

Bingo!

http://www.ikeafans.com/home/pozidriv-hex-key-allen-wrench/

Holt · Mar 10, 2013

My Phillips #2 is still in great shape. Only issue is laser etch has worn off. I'm guessing. Its turned at least 1000 plus 3inch deck screws. Plus this has tuned other screwes as well. Made in Czech

cmandp · Mar 10, 2013

Here's my P2, used on maybe 100-200 screws. Bought these Jan. 2012, so they're Czech made.

lbgradwell · Mar 10, 2013

Holt said:
...Its turned at least 1000 plus 3inch deck screws.

You're saying you sink 3" Phillips deck screws by hand??!! :wtf:

Anyone else find Wera Kraftform tips soft?

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