Williams USA 12pc 1/4 drive set(same as S O?)

Brownsfan · Aug 23, 2013

Ok I have heard time and time again on this site that the Williams USA sockets are IDENTICAL to the Snap On counterparts. So that said are these sets really IDENTICAL?
http://www.toolsdelivered.com/Willi...ools-1-4-Inch-Drive-Chrome-Metric-Socket-Sets
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...roup_ID=674779&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
If they are the same then why would anyone pay that price difference? I admit I am a Snap On tool lover and buyer. I own a lot of their tools and feel they are well worth it. Except sockets and wrenches. I was thinking about upgrading sockets from USA craftsman but now I really don't think I need to. So what says the garage journal? Are they the same?

CWP1616L · Aug 23, 2013

They are the same exact dimensions and the same steel.

The only difference is the lettering and the stripes.

alinc100 · Aug 23, 2013

Brownsfan said:
Ok I have heard time and time again on this site that the Williams USA sockets are IDENTICAL to the Snap On counterparts. So that said are these sets really IDENTICAL?
http://www.toolsdelivered.com/Willi...ools-1-4-Inch-Drive-Chrome-Metric-Socket-Sets
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...roup_ID=674779&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
If they are the same then why would anyone pay that price difference? I admit I am a Snap On tool lover and buyer. I own a lot of their tools and feel they are well worth it. Except sockets and wrenches. I was thinking about upgrading sockets from USA craftsman but now I really don't think I need to. So what says the garage journal? Are they the same?

Nope not identical the Williams set has a 4mm no 15 mm and the snap on Set has a 15 mm but no 4mm.

Andy

rusty65 · Aug 23, 2013

Yep the same darn thing. There are three Williams sockets and the rest snap on 6-24 + 26mm and I dare you to find the Williams sockets mixed in.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1377315398.440308.jpg

Sent From Snap On Headquarters deep in China.

Brownsfan · Aug 23, 2013

CWP1616L said:
They are the same exact dimensions and the same steel.

The only difference is the lettering and the stripes.

Without sounding like the Snap On haters because like I said I love the tools and own a lot of snap on. Probably more than I will ever need. I am one of the snap on fan boys. But even I can't see paying the price difference for truck convieniance. I am a snap on defender but this is un defendable

CWP1616L · Aug 23, 2013

Back when I bought my Snap-on sockets in 1992, Williams was still their own company. Snap-on at the time was the very best you could buy and no other company came close to the level of quality that they had. Now days, you can get some really nice sockets without spending a fortune.

davesnothere · Aug 23, 2013

They are not the same. If they were the same, the price would be the same.

CWP1616L · Aug 24, 2013

Two different markets for those sockets. The Snap-on sockets are marketed to mechanics who pay a little at a time week to week with no interest. The Williams sockets are marketed to industrial companies who pay cash on the barrel in full.

TwoInch · Aug 24, 2013

davesnothere said:
They are not the same. If they were the same, the price would be the same.

they are the exact same sockets with different stampings.

deny all you want, they are. its stings a little at first, realizing you paid snap on money for them, but they are the same.

TwoInch · Aug 24, 2013

CWP1616L said:
Two different markets for those sockets. The Snap-on sockets are marketed to mechanics who pay a little at a time week to week with no interest. The Williams sockets are marketed to industrial companies who pay cash on the barrel in full.

exactly.

there are many examples of the same products being sold under different brand names, identical product, very different pricing.

a lot of snap on rebranded stuff can be had for half the price or less. we all know that. but people cant believe the sockets dont actually cost twenty dollars a piece to make.

you pay for a service just as much as a product with snap on, i figured we all knew that by now. you do not get that service when you buy the williams sockets.

snap on makes incredible tools, but i will never go for the bring it to my front door for twice the price mentality. its no different than the vacuum salesman that talks your wife into a new $1600 kirby vacuum.... no difference at all. they made a marketing scheme many years ago, and it worked very very well.

in reality, no one on this planet needs to buy tools at the prices trucks charge.

but mechanics by nature, needing the best, and feeling the need to keep up with the guys in the next bays, keeps those trucks and snap on itself able to charge what they charge. the vehicle repair industry has done that company very well over the years. wave a truck full off tools in front of mechanics, its like the proverbial "kid in a candy store"... how could it fail?

edit - i am far from a snap on hater. i own my share. but i am not delusional about the business model, and how they make money hand over fist.

CWP1616L · Aug 24, 2013

Looking at the link, the Williams appear to have no stripes at all and no italicized SNAP-ON markings.

eleblu05 · Aug 24, 2013

$18.91 a socket for that set the only difference is the name and engraving.

Skin · Aug 24, 2013

davesnothere said:
They are not the same. If they were the same, the price would be the same.

As has been said they are the same. People have even gotten Williams sets with Snap-On sockets mixed in. They're made in the same exact plant with the same tooling. Also tools for the industrial and aerospace industries have to meet more specs than automotive tools so its not like they can cut corners.

Proto and MAC sockets are the same way. Armstrong uses the same sockets as Craftsman. Matco is/was using a private supplier which is the only reason they're different. If you want truly exclusive sockets buy Cornwell

.

Just a note this is only about basic chrome sockets. There are still some differences in the Williams and Snap-On socket lines like the chrome universals. Those are definitely not the same.

CWP1616L · Aug 24, 2013

There's no 1/4'' drive Williams swivel sockets; it'd be nice if there was.

Brownsfan · Aug 24, 2013

So the conclusion here is you can get complete set of Williams sockets for a little more than a single set of snap on. Is the Williams thin walled and broached the same so say a nut does not drop to the top of the socket but stays down so you can start a fastener? Yes I watched the propaganda video.

ihateminimumwage · Aug 24, 2013

Brownsfan said:
So the conclusion here is you can get complete set of Williams sockets for a little more than a single set of snap on. Is the Williams thin walled and broached the same so say a nut does not drop to the top of the socket but stays down so you can start a fastener? Yes I watched the propaganda video.

Yes, same chrome, thin walls, broaching, etc. Like others have posted, the Williams USA chrome sockets are the same, just a different stamp. There are some sizes that don't cross over, but those are the sizes you'll pretty much never use (1/4" drive - 4.5mm, 15mm, 5/8). My damn socket trays made me OCD out and fill the missing spaces with Snap-Ons (and a couple of Blue Points). :eyecrazy:

Brownsfan · Aug 24, 2013

For a weekend wrench and a guy who primarily does electrical and interior work is it worth it to upgrade from USA craftsman? I can easily sell them but I really have had no issues with them.

TwoInch · Aug 24, 2013

CWP1616L said:
There's no 1/4'' drive Williams swivel sockets; it'd be nice if there was.

aint that the truth

Skin · Aug 24, 2013

CWP1616L said:
There's no 1/4'' drive Williams swivel sockets; it'd be nice if there was.

If that's in reference to my post it wouldn't matter, they'd still be different. Snap-On laser welds the pins on their chrome versions and the universal block is plated. Williams has the pins exposed and the block is black.

Basic chrome and impact sockets though, identical.

ihateminimumwage · Aug 24, 2013

Brownsfan said:
For a weekend wrench and a guy who primarily does electrical and interior work is it worth it to upgrade from USA craftsman? I can easily sell them but I really have had no issues with them.

No real reason besides being nicer to look at. My home set of sockets are USA Craftsman, and they've worked fine for me. :dunno:

ToolsDelivered.com · Sep 1, 2013

CWP1616L said:
Two different markets for those sockets. The Snap-on sockets are marketed to mechanics who pay a little at a time week to week with no interest. The Williams sockets are marketed to industrial companies who pay cash on the barrel in full.

Snap-On and the USA made Williams are ounce for ounce identical in steel strength and come out of the same plant off the same machines using the same raw material grades.

The differences are, and the only differences are the level of finish, handle styles, and stampings.

Snap-On tools are polished to be flawless before the are chromed or oxide finished, and when chromed they are nickel chromed heavily. This high quality finishing increases the cost 2 -3 times over Williams. As they say, there is a difference and side by side it is clearly obvious. Snap-On is jewelry.

Williams is not finished in the raw as well as Snap-On before finishing, chrome or oxide, and they are single plated chrome. It keeps the cost down for industrial users that don't want to pay for a high level of finish. 100s of millions $$$ in chrome Snap-On are sold for cash to heavy industry every year world wide.

Williams Global "aka imported" is the equivalent of Blue Point and it has to exceed 85% of the wear an stress benchmarks of the USA made equivalents. Williams Global is the high value - low cost line.

Snap-On is Street Rod, Williams is just a Rat Rod.

I'm out.

Brownsfan · Sep 1, 2013

Is there any difference between blue point and Williams global in the finish? I ask because there is almost an equally as big price difference in blue point and Williams global. I honestly think if given a choice 99% of mechanics would choose a lower finish over the higher cost of the bling.

Skin · Sep 1, 2013

ToolsDelivered.com said:
Snap-On tools are polished to be flawless before the are chromed or oxide finished, and when chromed they are nickel chromed heavily. This high quality finishing increases the cost 2 -3 times over Williams. As they say, there is a difference and side by side it is clearly obvious. Snap-On is jewelry.

Williams is not finished in the raw as well as Snap-On before finishing, chrome or oxide, and they are single plated chrome. It keeps the cost down for industrial users that don't want to pay for a high level of finish. 100s of millions $$$ in chrome Snap-On are sold for cash to heavy industry every year world wide.

Interesting, thanks for posting the info. Im a little surprised they do indeed use two different finishing processes for just the sockets but at the same time that's great news for people who have purchased Snap-On. At least there is some justification for the price difference regardless of how miniscule or great someone might weigh that.

nine4gmc · Sep 1, 2013

ToolsDelivered.com said:
Snap-On is Street Rod, Williams is just a Rat Rod.

I'm out.

Say what you want but the difference in a hot rod and a rat rod is a lot more than two coats of chrome...

The difference in these two tools is basically....two coats of chrome and a lot of ******* money...

Go buy some more man jewelry to impress your man friends :thumbup:

TwoInch · Sep 1, 2013

putting a brand new williams socket next to a brand new snap on socket, or a "like brand new" williams made kobalt socket, and i can tell the difference in the chrome....

im gonna call ******** on the chrome issue. they may not be polished before chroming, but i cant see how that would affect the finish polished chrome afterward... both are slick as glass and mirror shiny...

TwoInch · Sep 1, 2013

here is the video for the snap on sockets being made if anyone would like to see it again.

TwoInch · Sep 1, 2013

i dont have a camera that will do macro shots to show the detail, this is the best i can find online. they are just as flawless as any snap on socket i have ever seen.

3-8%20Sockets,%206%20Point,%20Metric.jpg

CWP1616L · Sep 1, 2013

Yesterday you were defending Craftsman and today you're defending Williams. Captain Save-a-Tool to the rescue LOL!! :lol:

TwoInch · Sep 2, 2013

defending? im calling it as i see it. i dont like people spreading bad information. im not a fan boy for any of the brands. i call a turd a turd.

they are identical. chrome and all.

some people are delusional. there is no justification for the price increase, its quite obvious. unless having a truck deliver them to you is worth it.... instead of a snap on truck, ill use the USPS trucks and save the money. they all drive the same streets. gotta wait for the snap on guy to come on tuesday or whatever day it is anyway. might as well get em for dirt cheap too.

and FWIW, i was "defending" craftsman sockets, nothing else.

Skin · Sep 2, 2013

nine4gmc said:
Say what you want but the difference in a hot rod and a rat rod is a lot more than two coats of chrome...

The difference in these two tools is basically....two coats of chrome and a lot of ******* money...

Go buy some more man jewelry to impress your man friends

Not sure why you're being sarcastic. His site is one of the cheapest places on the net to purchase Williams and he would of served himself better if he hadn't said anything. The fact that he voluntarily posted what the differences were, since we were all saying they're the same, speaks volumes. You don't see me waving the Snap-On flag when I post, nor is anyone saying Snap-On is suddenly a great deal, but I for one can appreciate that there is a difference between the two and he was kind enough to clarify that point.

bob15 · Sep 2, 2013

Williams and Snap On are not the same. The steel and heat treats are different. Check the Snap On and the Williams on a Rockwell tester and report back with the results.

**Hint** The snappy is harder. Our Chief Metallurgist did some testing a few years ago and found there are big differences. I re-tested a handful of wrenches a few months back and re-confirmed the results.

Snap On: C-scale 55 (288,000 psi tensile/Brinell 560)
Williams: C-scale 50 (253,000 psi tensile/Brinell 481)

bob

devoncoolman · Sep 2, 2013

bob15 said:
Williams and Snap On are not the same. The steel and heat treats are different. Check the Snap On and the Williams on a Rockwell tester and report back with the results.

**Hint** The snappy is harder. Our Chief Metallurgist did some testing a few years ago and found there are big differences. I re-tested a handful of wrenches a few months back and re-confirmed the results.

Snap On: C-scale 55 (288,000 psi tensile/Brinell 560)
Williams: C-scale 50 (253,000 psi tensile/Brinell 481)

bob

Everyone is actually refering to sockets. The wrenches are clearly not the same.

bob15 · Sep 2, 2013

devoncoolman said:
Everyone is actually refering to sockets. The wrenches are clearly not the same.

I understand they are talking sockets, but it seems that most anyone that talks Williams and Snap On says they are the same tools, period. the same this and the same that, and i am trying to get people to realize they aren't identical.

If someone want to send me a new Williams socket i will test it against a Snappy socket......

bob

Steve_P · Sep 2, 2013

I've bought a lot of USA Williams sockets and ratchets in the last 3 yrs. I don't have any new Snap On to compare to, but the williams stuff I have is definitely not plated to the same level of beauty as SK (at least what I have) and also probably not Snap On as said. But for the $, it's great.

ihateminimumwage · Sep 2, 2013

bob15 said:
I understand they are talking sockets, but it seems that most anyone that talks Williams and Snap On says they are the same tools, period. the same this and the same that, and i am trying to get people to realize they aren't identical.
bob

Everyone that knows the subject around here makes it very clear that the sockets are the same, and if they bring up wrenches or ratchets, are quickly corrected. Folks are aware the wrenches are completely different, just by a quick glance.

TwoInch said:
they are identical. chrome and all.

some people are delusional. there is no justification for the price increase, its quite obvious. unless having a truck deliver them to you is worth it.... instead of a snap on truck, ill use the USPS trucks and save the money. they all drive the same streets. gotta wait for the snap on guy to come on tuesday or whatever day it is anyway. might as well get em for dirt cheap too.

All the Snap-On and Williams USA sockets I have mixed together are identical, finish and all.
Snap-On and associated distributors can make claims that there is some finishing difference to try and justify the insane price jump, but it's the same across all tool companies with the claims of having the nicest finish, or the most powerful impact (with made up torque specs). It's just another story to sell tools.

TwoInch · Sep 2, 2013

ihateminimumwage said:
All the Snap-On and Williams USA sockets I have mixed together are identical, finish and all.
Snap-On and associated distributors can make claims that there is some finishing difference to try and justify the insane price jump, but it's the same across all tool companies with the claims of having the nicest finish, or the most powerful impact (with made up torque specs). It's just another story to sell tools.

thats what im saying :beer:

i guarantee that if you took a snap on socket, and a USA williams and covered the stamp, no one here would be able to tell which was which. the finish **** just aint true. theya re identical.

cheechi · Sep 2, 2013

I am not arguing with anyone or any point made here. I want to ask, how tight is the tolerance on a SO socket? Let's assume that the differences that toolsdelivered mention are exactly correct. It certainly sounds reasonable at very least.

So you have raw sockets that are designed with the size such that they would receive two coats of nickel, but in the case of the Williams, you get one coat of chrome. Wouldn't this lead to the Williams, however miniscule, being unable to grip as tight?

The fact that the Williams sockets are not polished perfect means the rougher, less even surface compared to the SO socket, leads to different amount of plating being applied. Now when you apply stress to the socket, dissimilar metals stress differently (physical stress the same as how dissimilar metals heat differently) and therefore with the Williams you potentially have the coating chip or deform, affecting the geometry of the socket, and under extreme stress plastic deformation and you get an oblong or out of size socket.

So you can see the Williams is not exactly as perfect as the SO socket, and the guys who spent SO money will now be able to rest knowing theirs is better than the Williams. I think it's best for everyone's kool ade if we let TD be right about this. Science has saved the day.

Skin · Sep 2, 2013

Anyone want to pool a few bucks with me and get bob15 some Williams sockets to test?

TwoInch · Sep 3, 2013

cheechi said:
I am not arguing with anyone or any point made here. I want to ask, how tight is the tolerance on a SO socket? Let's assume that the differences that toolsdelivered mention are exactly correct. It certainly sounds reasonable at very least.

So you have raw sockets that are designed with the size such that they would receive two coats of nickel, but in the case of the Williams, you get one coat of chrome. Wouldn't this lead to the Williams, however miniscule, being unable to grip as tight?

The fact that the Williams sockets are not polished perfect means the rougher, less even surface compared to the SO socket, leads to different amount of plating being applied. Now when you apply stress to the socket, dissimilar metals stress differently (physical stress the same as how dissimilar metals heat differently) and therefore with the Williams you potentially have the coating chip or deform, affecting the geometry of the socket, and under extreme stress plastic deformation and you get an oblong or out of size socket.

So you can see the Williams is not exactly as perfect as the SO socket, and the guys who spent SO money will now be able to rest knowing theirs is better than the Williams. I think it's best for everyone's kool ade if we let TD be right about this. Science has saved the day.

Williams USA 12pc 1/4 drive set(same as S O?)

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