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Three car garage - Fluorescent Lighting suggestions

W_KY

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I have a three car garage with single garage door and a double garage door. I'd like to upgrade the lights from the current which is two, single bulb lights.

I'm thinking five 8ft T8 lights. The thing I'm struggling with is placing them in a way in which the doors don't block all my light when they are open. Being in Texas, I do work with the doors open a lot of the time.

Attached is a drawing of the basic layout of the garage and how I'm thinking about running the lights. I have one additional running the opposite direction between the two bays and that is because it is directly over my workbench.

Work in the garage includes wood working, basic automotive, and general things that need to be done for the house.

What would you suggest for lights? Would I be better off going with more 4 ft lights instead of 8ft?
 

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jkwilson

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I'm liking CFLs more and more. Particularly these.

Easier to mess with than 8 footers. They put out great light and the fixtures are dirt cheap.
 

ScaldedDog

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I have a similar setup, though it's a little deeper. Is your ceiling flat, or peaked?

Mine has the peak running north/south in your pic. I ran 2 8' T8 fixtures in line with the peak, and four more on each side running east/west. That, plus the 3 additional fixtures in the deeper work area, provides plenty of light. The doors only block the outer fixture on each side when open.

Mark
 
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zcar751

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I like your lay out but I would probably drop the fifth one over the bench and replace with a couple of CFLs handing on pendants.
Look at Jack Olsen's "12 gauge garage" thread and see how he dealt with lights and garage doors.
 

2ManyProjects

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I have a three car garage with single garage door and a double garage door. I'd like to upgrade the lights from the current which is two, single bulb lights.

I'm thinking five 8ft T8 lights. The thing I'm struggling with is placing them in a way in which the doors don't block all my light when they are open. Being in Texas, I do work with the doors open a lot of the time.

Attached is a drawing of the basic layout of the garage and how I'm thinking about running the lights. I have one additional running the opposite direction between the two bays and that is because it is directly over my workbench.

Work in the garage includes wood working, basic automotive, and general things that need to be done for the house.

A few hopefully relevant thoughts, in no particular order:

-- As a very general rule, more light is always better than less light, as long as you are not forced to always use everything, all at once (see below for more on that last point). "Overkill" doesn't really set in nearly as quickly as you might guess.

-- Four-foot fixtures are generally far more flexible in terms of both placement and switching than eight-foot fixtures, even if the latter use (twice as many) four-foot tubes. They can still be similarly economical, if you shop carefully. They will of course require somewhat more extensive/elaborate wiring; but that trade-off is MORE than worthwhile, IMCO.

-- Unless your ceilings are VERY high (12-15 feet, at minimum; more would be better), you do NOT want anything designated "High Bay". You probably also want fixtures with no more than two T-8 or T-5 (NOT "T-5HO") tubes in each. The reason for this is, in typical garage applications the biggest challenge is distributing the light effectively, rather than having "enough" raw brightness at the light source(s).

-- The details of how the space is constructed and finished can have a MUCH larger impact than you might initially guess. For example, an open (rafters/trusses showing) ceiling with unpainted OSB walls will probably require upwards of twice as much (maybe even more) raw lighting power as having both the walls and ceiling finished with drywall (or similar) and painted bright white. (And the latter scenario will also help on the "even distribution" front.)

-- Regardless of what type fixtures/bulbs/tubes you choose for your "main" lighting, you'll want to arrange them and wire them such that they are in at least two (possibly three or more) separately switched "banks". Ideally, the largest bank will comprise about twice as much raw lighting power as the next-largest bank, so as to effectively provide THREE different selectable brightness levels. Obviously, this also implies that the individual fixtures comprising each of these "banks" are more-or-less evenly distributed around the space. If you also want to do "zoning" (such as only lighting up those red- or green-demarced areas if you're actually working there), then still more switching is in order.

-- In addition to whatever you choose for the "Main" lighting, you'll want an additional (but VERY modest; perhaps one or two four-foot two-tube fixtures, total) separately switched bank (which might also be triggered by either or both garage door openers) to serve as your "walk through" lighting. These are the lights you use when just casually entering the garage to grab a screwdriver, or unload the groceries, or whatever. In such instances, you do NOT want your only choices to be switching on multiple hundreds ("thousands"?) of watts-worth of light, or stumbling around in the dark.

-- You will no doubt ALSO want separate (and generously sized) "task lighting" in such places as your work bench, and over/near any stationary power tools (such as table/miter saws, lathes, etc.). This task lighting should be chosen on its own merits, as applied to the particular job at hand (IOW, it's essentially a separate discussion).

-- In addition to the (quite valid) issue you mentioned of having the overhead doors blocking the lights when open, there is another frequently overlooked placement issue: If (as seems to happen far too often) the lights are mounted more-or-less directly over where the vehicles park, they will do an outstanding job of illuminating the roofs of those vehicles -- and very little else. Hence, if you're trying to work under or directly beside those vehicles (such as, for example, changing wheels, or working on the brakes, or tending to stone chips low on the doors), you'll find yourself in a giant shadow -- not fun. At least a partial solution to this problem is to mount as much of your main lighting as possible on the walls, not the ceiling. As long a you have at least 8-9 feet of ceiling height, you should be able to get the fixtures far enough up to be both out of the way (hence, somewhat protected from accidental impacts) and in a position where they can project their output mostly in a useful direction. If you MUST mount to (or hang from) the ceiling, such as might be the case for the area between those two "bays", do so as far outside of the "footprint" made by each vehicle as possible.

-- Bare-tube (or bare tube with reflector) fixtures will be the most efficient, in terms of lumens/watt; but are probably NOT the best choice for a typical low-ceiling garage application. Something with a simple clear diffuser/lens will do a better job of distributing the light evenly, AND provide additional impact protection, while imposing little enough penalty in terms of raw output to be more than worth the trade-off. I have pointed to these several times before:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-2-Light-Utility-Light-3348-2L32W-WRAP/100654395
92eeea00-35d4-4de6-9cd6-11e57dd051fc_300.jpg


They're cheap; they look half-decent; they can be strung together in more-or-less continuous "strips" when appropriate; the polycarbonate lens both helps to evenly distribute the light and provides some impact protection; and the 4-foot size makes placing them where you really need them relatively easy. There's also a matching two-foot version:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia...hite-Fluorescent-Light-Fixture-3324/202192968
39000172-ebf4-4c9c-8544-fe78d1fd119c_300.jpg


if you need to fit into really tight spots, or fill out a specific-length run.


I'm liking CFLs more and more. Particularly these.

I have to disagree with this. High-output CFLs such as the ones you cite are in essence the very antithesis of "even distribution". Yes, they put out a lot of light (tho' generally still not as much, per watt, as linear fluorescents); but it's concentrated in a single point-source, which makes for very "spotty" uneven lighting, unless you use so many of them that you ARE well into "overkill" territory. The potential exception here is IF you have very high ceilings, and can find fixtures with a very efficient reflector; in that case, CFLs can start to become competitive again. But in most "normal" applications, they are far from ideal.

 
OP
W

W_KY

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Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. Especially to "2ManyProjects" as I know that took some time to write up. You brought up some very good points and I'll go check those lights from Home Depot out.

To provide a little more information, The walls are about 8.5 ft and the the ceiling is flat. The walls and ceiling are drywall and currently painted a light beige. In the future, that may be switching to light gray with a dark grey stripe around it.

I knew the space above the garage doors was short but when I measured it last night I realized its really short. Only about a foot.
 

Stevie-Ray

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What would you suggest for lights? Would I be better off going with more 4 ft lights instead of 8ft?
I would think so. Mine is a 24x48, doors on 2 adjacent sides, and I went with 13 4-foot T8 fixtures from Menards. They were about 13 bucks ea. Gives me quite a bit of light, though my garage isn't drywalled yet. I'm expecting it to be even better then. The 4-footers are easier to position where you want them, and FAR easier to move. I did switched receptacles, so they are the plug-in type, and work well in winter, unlike my old fixtures in my previous house, though you need worry less about that.
 

flyingw

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I too have a 3 car garage that doubles as my shop. I'm in OKC so most of my garage time is in the cooler months. My garage originally came with two bulbs and two outlets. Shortly after moving in, I built cabinets for all my **** and added a few more outlets but lighting was an issue. I hung four T-8 eight foot lights and put two high output CFLs on the ceiling. The CFLs are friggin bright. I painted the garage a semi gloss white and had my floor done by Garage Experts done in tan. Two of the T-8s are mostly blocked when the doors are up but consider the fact that in the up position the doors cover about 1/3rd of the ceiling so not much I can do about that. In any case, see the photos. You will see I have two of the T-8s over my work bench so they are not blocked by the doors. For the most part, my lighting is pretty good.
 

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jkwilson

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I have to disagree with this. High-output CFLs such as the ones you cite are in essence the very antithesis of "even distribution". Yes, they put out a lot of light (tho' generally still not as much, per watt, as linear fluorescents); but it's concentrated in a single point-source, which makes for very "spotty" uneven lighting, unless you use so many of them that you ARE well into "overkill" territory. The potential exception here is IF you have very high ceilings, and can find fixtures with a very efficient reflector; in that case, CFLs can start to become competitive again. But in most "normal" applications, they are far from ideal.


I thought the same way until I saw these things in action. Their light output is phenomenal compared to what you buy at Walmart.

I have them alongside my 2-bulb 8ft T12HO fixtures, and the effect is impressive. I added them at the corners of the bay to get more light on the sides and under farm equipment, and even with the bulbs way out at the corners of the area they light the whole bay on their own surprisingly well. Little shadowing and the light seems easier on the eyes when trying to read things like socket sizes.

If I were wiring the building again, I'd forget the tubes and stick with these CFLs. The light is as good or better, and you don't have to deal with the long bulbs. If an area is shadowed you can add a fixture in a half hour.
 

PhantomEB

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I ended up pickin up a free pair of 4 bulb 4' Lithonia T8 fixtures as well a box of bulbs from a buddy, NIB. These ones are for to sink up in between the rafters, might want to look at something similar?
 

2ManyProjects

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I have to disagree with this. High-output CFLs such as the ones you cite are in essence the very antithesis of "even distribution". Yes, they put out a lot of light (tho' generally still not as much, per watt, as linear fluorescents); but it's concentrated in a single point-source, which makes for very "spotty" uneven lighting, unless you use so many of them that you ARE well into "overkill" territory. The potential exception here is IF you have very high ceilings, and can find fixtures with a very efficient reflector; in that case, CFLs can start to become competitive again. But in most "normal" applications, they are far from ideal.
I thought the same way until I saw these things in action. Their light output is phenomenal compared to what you buy at Walmart.

I have no idea what imaginary "buy at Walmart" bulbs or fixtures you might be referring to. But the fact remains that CFLs lag behind linear fluorescents in terms of both efficiency and light distribution.

The latter can vary significantly from fixture to fixture; but you don't need a photometrics chart to see that the CFL is a point source vs. a standard fluorescent tube being a line source. "Never say never", and all that; but that inherent disadvantage remains very difficult for the CFL to overcome, pretty much regardless of what you do with lenses & reflectors.

But when it comes to raw efficiency, it's a clear-cut no-brainer...

The CFLs you pointed at are rated for 4,250 lumens, and consume 85 watts; hence: 50 lumens/watt.

A standard T-8 fluorescent tube will produce at least 2,800-2,850 lumens (some high-output versions can approach 3,200 lumens; cf. http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/NLPIP/lightingAnswers/t8/02-t8-light-output.asp), and consumes 32 watts; so, even worst-case, that's 87.5 lumens/watt -- a 75% improvement over the CFL.

I have them alongside my 2-bulb 8ft T12HO fixtures, and the effect is impressive.

Part of that "impressive effect" is probably due to the illusion of brightness they create when you look (more-or-less) directly at them. They're not really putting out more light than the tubes are; but because that output is concentrated into a comparatively small space, it "appears" more intense. You could legitimately say that the CFL's output density is higher; but that is not the same thing as actual total output (and in at least most cases, it is exactly the opposite of what you really want for general garage/shop illumination).

If I were wiring the building again, I'd forget the tubes and stick with these CFLs. The light is as good or better, and you don't have to deal with the long bulbs. If an area is shadowed you can add a fixture in a half hour.

Look, if you're happy, great! And CFLs do indeed have their place. But that doesn't mean that they generally outperform linear fluorescents -- they don't.

 

bob_mp

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Great advice by 2manyprojects.

I would definitely go with more lights, 4 footers, and spread them out. The big challenge is getting rid of the shadows.

I use 22, 4' dual bulb T5HO lights wired in three circuits in my 940 square foot garage. The lights on each of the circuits are evenly spread out; the first circuit controls eight, the second and the third 7 each. The walls and ceilings are white and floor is painted.

I like having three brightness settings. With one circuit on it's pretty bright. With all three on, it's seriously bright.

My ceilings are about 13' and I think that's a bit low for T5HOs, even with diffusers. I like the light from the T5HOs a lot, but they are annoying if they end up in your field of view. This is a real concern if you have windows and neighbors. I'm going to need to get blinds.

To get around the problem of the garage doors blocking the lights, I built the garage doors so that they swing out.

I am pretty happy with my setup.

Cheers,
Bob
 

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scott750

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I'm in the same boat as the OP, even have very similar situation. I don't mean to hijack the thread, but thought I would post here instead of starting a new thread.

I also have a 3 car garage and do some automotive maintenance in the garage (car parts, detailing, etc). I've already started installing some drop down shop lights: 4' t8 fluorescent.

AAAADJqIAUcAAAAAAZXfOw.jpg


Got these at Lowes. Installed 5 of them so far and wanting to install 2 more.

Attached is a crappy drawing of my garage, a la MS Paint.

In the 2-car part, there's a switched outlet in the center of the ceiling. Its a 20a circuit, but its shared with the kitchen, pantry and utility lighting.

I'm thinking of adding 2 more of these lights, highlighted in orange.

BUT......I don't like how the wires are just strung across the ceiling and exposed. So I was thinking of replacing the lights (in the same positions) with the HD lights that 2ManyProjects posted.

What's the best way to wire the lights to the existing switched outlet? Is my light placement ok? If not how would you change it? I need most of my light in the 2-car part, as the 3rd car part has all of my equipment and work bench on the left wall, probably about 1/3 of that space is taken.
 

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2ManyProjects

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I'm in the same boat as the OP, even have very similar situation. I don't mean to hijack the thread, but thought I would post here instead of starting a new thread.

I also have a 3 car garage and do some automotive maintenance in the garage (car parts, detailing, etc). I've already started installing some drop down shop lights: 4' t8 fluorescent.
In the 2-car part, there's a switched outlet in the center of the ceiling. Its a 20a circuit, but its shared with the kitchen, pantry and utility lighting.

Are you CERTAIN that's is really a 20A circuit? If it is just a lighting circuit (as opposed to serving such things as duplex outlets in the kitchen countertop area), there's near-certainly no good reason for more than 15A.

OTOH, if it is also supporting duplexes (particularly kitchen duplexes), then I would avoid using that "shared" circuit for ANYTHING in the garage, if at all possible. The sole possible (but still not preferable) exception to this would be AT MOST one or two modest light fixtures (say, twin-tube F32T8s) switched to act as your "walk through" lighting.

I'm thinking of adding 2 more of these lights, highlighted in orange.

BUT......I don't like how the wires are just strung across the ceiling and exposed. So I was thinking of replacing the lights (in the same positions) with the HD lights that 2ManyProjects posted.

What's the best way to wire the lights to the existing switched outlet?

If you go with those Lithonia fixtures I cited (or similar) you would need to install junction boxes at each fixture-mounting point, then wire them together using NM-B (a.k.a. "Romex") cabling in a more-or-less conventional manner. For retrofitting into already dry-walled areas, you'll probably want what is called an "old work" box. But you should still make sure that the fixtures themselves are solidly attached to the building's framing, not just hanging from the drywall.

Is my light placement ok? If not how would you change it? I need most of my light in the 2-car part, as the 3rd car part has all of my equipment and work bench on the left wall, probably about 1/3 of that space is taken.

Without actually seeing the space, it's difficult to be certain. But I'll take some W.A.G.s based on your sketch...

The first thing I'd probably change is to move those two yellow-marked vertical rows of fixtures further out to the sides of that double-bay parking area, so that they are located OUTSIDE the footprint of any parked cars, and thus illuminate the work areas, instead of the cars' roofs. A matching third row can go between them, which SHOULD fall in the space between where the two cars park. I'd probably also put at least three (twin-tube) fixtures in each of these rows, with the center fixtures in each row switched separately. In the event you center one car in the space to work on it, this will still be OK, as the outer rows will now have a more direct "angle of attack" (so to speak) on the vehicle sides; and the extra light supplied by the third fixture in each row should pretty much make up for the additional distance-based losses.

I might (probably would) also run a row of fixtures cross-ways near the back of that same space, perhaps 1.5-2 feet out from the wall.. This would accomplish two things: It would nicely illuminate any cabinets, shelving, or wall-hung storage located along that back wall; and it would also throw some additional light into the vehicles' engine compartments when their hoods are up.

The offset area served by the single-wide garage door definitely needs more light. You mention having equipment & workbenches in this area. That strongly implies a need for truly effective task lighting. Exactly what that task lighting should be comprised of and how it should be arranged will depend far too much on the particular equipment/bench/cabinetry details for me to make any specific recommendations.

Good luck. And keep us posted.

 

scott750

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Thank you for your suggestions on the light placement.

It is a normal 15a duplex outlet in the garage ceiling, but in the service panel it has a 20a circuit breaker. So I figured it was a 20a circuit. Is this a correct assumption?

Although I would really like to have the garage lighting on its own dedicated circuit. If I were able to run new cable to the service panel, there's plenty of room to add more circuits. I wouldn't mind adding 2 or 3 switches to light up the lights in sections like you mention.

Although I'm just not sure if I have the right tools and skills to accomplish this. I say that because the service panel at the front of the garage is not hollow wall. It is filled with batt insulation. I do own fish tape, but in the attic above, there is some plywood flooring installed as they made a walkway to the blower/furnace. So the top of the wall at the front of the garage, that attic space is blocked. I suppose I could drill through it, but am afraid I would mess it up. But I have installed some extra outlets and wiring in my last home. It was easy since the walls were hollow and the 10 year blown insulation had compressed enough to expose a lot of the ceiling joists making finding everything very easy.

Here's some pics of my garage.












I would like to add surface mount lights like the Lithonia's you mention, although they didn't get the greatest reviews.

I thought these lights from garagelightinghq.com looked really cool for not having to drill in the ceiling, but they are kinda expensive.

yhst-81563436181518_2267_296697639


But if you know of any websites that go into some detail about running new wires, adding circuits to the service panel that would really help me. It doesn't seem hard, but its all about the planning and doing it right the first time.
 
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regguy1

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scott750

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Beautiful floor and TBSS by the way

Thank you! :beer:

I have 20 of those Home Depot lights with 6500K tubes in my 26' x 30'
see how they look here: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140674&highlight=26'+30'+Garage+photos+videos

I want your garage!!! I've always to have a 2 post lift installed. I really like the layout. So no issues with those HD lights? Some reviews were saying they had no knockout holes to wire like the way you have done, but obvisouly there were knockout holes. How are they all wired up in the ceiling? How many switches, circuits, etc.
 

Ch3No2

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More than you probably wanted to know here:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/content.php?146-Lighting-the-Small-Workshop-by-Jack-Lindsey


Also, ther are free online apps that let you define your space and lighting requirements and they'll spit out a layout, number of fixtures etc....

Excellent read!
In my opinion the initial light layout looks like you are catering to benches which is ok but I believe you shouldn't have to do that if you have sufficient lighting....I probably overdid my lighting but I used double ballast fixtures so two switches could control each fixture
 

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2ManyProjects

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Thank you for your suggestions on the light placement.

It is a normal 15a duplex outlet in the garage ceiling, but in the service panel it has a 20a circuit breaker. So I figured it was a 20a circuit. Is this a correct assumption?

The type of duplex outlet used is not really determinative. If it's fed from a 20A breaker, one of two things is near-certainly true:

A. - It really is a "20A" circuit, using (at least) AWG 12 wiring throughout; but for convenience/expediency, someone used a standard NEMA 5-15R duplex instead of the slightly less common (and usually somewhat more expensive) 5-20R. That "mismatch" is OK in practice, at least until/unless someone wants to plug in a device which really NEEDS 20A, and thus has a 5-20P plug on it (but those things are rare enough that I wouldn't worry about it).

B. - It may well really be a "15A" circuit, presumably based on AWG 14 wire. But given that the circuit is shared with various "stuff" stuff inside the house (particularly if any of that is "kitchen stuff"), a previous owner might have experienced one too many nuisance trips, and taken it upon himself to swap out the original 15A breaker for a 20A breaker. If so, this was a REALLY bad idea, and should be corrected immediately (if not sooner).

The only way to be sure which (if either; but I'm betting it's one or the other) of these scenarios applies here is to closely examine the actual wiring used in that circuit. Obviously, much of it will be buried in the walls, where you cannot easily get to it. But SOME of it should be visible at each connection point (such as at the breaker panel itself, and in each junction box (such as for outlets & lights) on the circuit. So start investigating. The outer jacket SHOULD be marked every foot or so; but be aware that over time, those marks can tend to fade and become difficult to read. Do what you need to do to determine what you are REALLY dealing with, before making any potentially hazardous assumptions.

Although I would really like to have the garage lighting on its own dedicated circuit. If I were able to run new cable to the service panel, there's plenty of room to add more circuits. I wouldn't mind adding 2 or 3 switches to light up the lights in sections like you mention.

If you're going to pull new circuits -- which may well be your best bet, in the long run -- the first question which comes up is, what are you using for general-purpose 120V power outlets in that garage? If you use that space for more than parking cars or trivial chores, you WILL want a good supply of power to outlets located in convenient locations throughout the space. And this really SHOULD be at least one (preferably two) 20A circuits, which are dedicated to this one task (i.e., shared with nothing else).

Although I'm just not sure if I have the right tools and skills to accomplish this. I say that because the service panel at the front of the garage is not hollow wall. It is filled with batt insulation.

Fishing cables through insulated walls is no fun at all. There are ways to get around this problem, and I'm sure others here will offer a variety of suggestions (possibly including surface-mounted conduit). But the first thing which comes to mind is: Based on the photos, it appears that the service panel is flush-mounted on the "back" wall of the garage, which may in turn be the wall separating the garage from the house proper. Given that, it would not surprise me at all if there was NO insulation in at least that one stud cavity; in which case, the job just got easier.

I do own fish tape, but in the attic above, there is some plywood flooring installed as they made a walkway to the blower/furnace. So the top of the wall at the front of the garage, that attic space is blocked. I suppose I could drill through it, but am afraid I would mess it up.

If it's just some smallish pieces of plywood tacked down atop the joists/rafters, the simplest approach might be to pry it up and (temporarily) set it aside, run your new wiring (keeping it OFF the tops of the joists/rafters, of course), then replace the plywood when you're done.

But I have installed some extra outlets and wiring in my last home. It was easy since the walls were hollow and the 10 year blown insulation had compressed enough to expose a lot of the ceiling joists making finding everything very easy.

Not that I am really suggesting this; but even batt insulation is relatively easy to remove & replace, if you can really get access to it. It's re-doing the drywall which can be a PITA (at least for me).

I would like to add surface mount lights like the Lithonia's you mention, although they didn't get the greatest reviews.

There's nothing sacred about those particular fixtures. I chose them as my "default example of the type" mostly because they're dirt cheap and widely available (I also happen to like their physical appearance; but that is a purely subjective matter). However, there are many, MANY, MANY other makes/models of very similar fixtures available; so if you prefer to go a bit more "up-market", by all means go for it.

But if you know of any websites that go into some detail about running new wires, adding circuits to the service panel that would really help me. It doesn't seem hard, but its all about the planning and doing it right the first time.

Others here can probably come up with better references than I have handy at the moment. But I WILL suggest that, if you are at all uncomfortable with ANY of this, do seek professional help. That doesn't necessarily mean simply throwing money at it and taking a completely hands-off approach; but with the right sort of help, you can probably do most of the "grunt work" yourself, and let the pro both look over everything you've done for errors, and make the final connections.

 
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scott750

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
50
Location
Austin, TX
The type of duplex outlet used is not really determinative. If it's fed from a 20A breaker, one of two things is near-certainly true:

A. - It really is a "20A" circuit, using (at least) AWG 12 wiring throughout; but for convenience/expediency, someone used a standard NEMA 5-15R duplex instead of the slightly less common (and usually somewhat more expensive) 5-20R. That "mismatch" is OK in practice, at least until/unless someone wants to plug in a device which really NEEDS 20A, and thus has a 5-20P plug on it (but those things are rare enough that I wouldn't worry about it).

B. - It may well really be a "15A" circuit, presumably based on AWG 14 wire. But given that the circuit is shared with various "stuff" stuff inside the house (particularly if any of that is "kitchen stuff"), a previous owner might have experienced one too many nuisance trips, and taken it upon himself to swap out the original 15A breaker for a 20A breaker. If so, this was a REALLY bad idea, and should be corrected immediately (if not sooner).

The only way to be sure which (if either; but I'm betting it's one or the other) of these scenarios applies here is to closely examine the actual wiring used in that circuit. Obviously, much of it will be buried in the walls, where you cannot easily get to it. But SOME of it should be visible at each connection point (such as at the breaker panel itself, and in each junction box (such as for outlets & lights) on the circuit. So start investigating. The outer jacket SHOULD be marked every foot or so; but be aware that over time, those marks can tend to fade and become difficult to read. Do what you need to do to determine what you are REALLY dealing with, before making any potentially hazardous assumptions.

I am the original owner and the house was built in March 2011. I checked some of the wiring exposed in the attic and it is indeed 12/2 Romex yellow jacketed wiring. Also my electrical box has all 20a circuit breakers in it. Cool the builder actually used good quality stuff! :rocker:




If you're going to pull new circuits -- which may well be your best bet, in the long run -- the first question which comes up is, what are you using for general-purpose 120V power outlets in that garage? If you use that space for more than parking cars or trivial chores, you WILL want a good supply of power to outlets located in convenient locations throughout the space. And this really SHOULD be at least one (preferably two) 20A circuits, which are dedicated to this one task (i.e., shared with nothing else).



Fishing cables through insulated walls is no fun at all. There are ways to get around this problem, and I'm sure others here will offer a variety of suggestions (possibly including surface-mounted conduit). But the first thing which comes to mind is: Based on the photos, it appears that the service panel is flush-mounted on the "back" wall of the garage, which may in turn be the wall separating the garage from the house proper. Given that, it would not surprise me at all if there was NO insulation in at least that one stud cavity; in which case, the job just got easier.

I may get a couple bids from professional electricians to see how much they would charge to add new circuits, and install junction boxes in the attic. Then I could just mount the new lights to the ceiling and drill a hole and wire up. Those guys can do it much faster and have it to code.


If it's just some smallish pieces of plywood tacked down atop the joists/rafters, the simplest approach might be to pry it up and (temporarily) set it aside, run your new wiring (keeping it OFF the tops of the joists/rafters, of course), then replace the plywood when you're done.

The plywood floor looks like a full size sheet that they just cut a small section out for the attic staircase. Also there are pieces of wood to make a single step stairs as the attic steps up for the vaulted ceilings below. Its not small sections. So that will be a little more difficult to work around.
 

kendogg

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Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Messages
203
Location
Auburn, GA
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-2-Light-Utility-Light-3348-2L32W-WRAP/100654395
92eeea00-35d4-4de6-9cd6-11e57dd051fc_300.jpg


They're cheap; they look half-decent; they can be strung together in more-or-less continuous "strips" when appropriate; the polycarbonate lens both helps to evenly distribute the light and provides some impact protection; and the 4-foot size makes placing them where you really need them relatively easy. There's also a matching two-foot version:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia...hite-Fluorescent-Light-Fixture-3324/202192968
39000172-ebf4-4c9c-8544-fe78d1fd119c_300.jpg


if you need to fit into really tight spots, or fill out a specific-length run.




I have to disagree with this. High-output CFLs such as the ones you cite are in essence the very antithesis of "even distribution". Yes, they put out a lot of light (tho' generally still not as much, per watt, as linear fluorescents); but it's concentrated in a single point-source, which makes for very "spotty" uneven lighting, unless you use so many of them that you ARE well into "overkill" territory. The potential exception here is IF you have very high ceilings, and can find fixtures with a very efficient reflector; in that case, CFLs can start to become competitive again. But in most "normal" applications, they are far from ideal.




Those light fixtures you've linked have HORRIBLE reviews, fyi....
 

taumac

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
8,104
Location
Brooksville, Fl
with my garage I have 6 main 4fters with a switch in ceiling to go from 1 main to all 6 when needed. Also have 1 4 ft over sink, 1 over tool tool area, and 2 over bench one in ceiling and 1 at eye level. I 8 4 fters in a 20 x 23 but don't use them all at once. I got them over the years from remodels and ppl getting rid of them.

View media item 30629
that the 6 main main lights. I do have to take better pic of this but think took that few months ago at 1 or 2 in morning. I also forgot the low voltage one above bench and under shelf one by sink
 
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2ManyProjects

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Joined
Jul 18, 2013
Messages
757
Those light fixtures you've linked have HORRIBLE reviews, fyi....
Any suggestions which fixtures are decent?
No idea, I actually just made a thread asking the same thing. But I'm not going to buy lights that have nothing but negative reviews though.

If you are referring to the so-called "Customer Reviews" on the H.D. product page, you are mischaracterizing the situation significantly. First, the reviews are NOT predominantly, let alone completely, negative. The "score" as of this writing is:
Code:
	5 Star	(11)
	4 Star	(19)
	3 Star	(11)
	2 Star	(6)
	1 Star	(15)

So that's 30 positive, 11 Neutral, and 21 Negative. Perhaps not overwhelming universal acclaim; but not even close to "nothing but negative reviews."

Second, if you actually READ those "reviews", you'll realize that many of them (particularly the one-star-wonders, it seems) need to be taken with a grain of salt the size of Utah.

For example, the very first one (when sorted "Newest first") reads: "CHEAP, CHEP ,CHEAP, too hard to assemble and very cheap material, I threw the darn thing away. Cons: Difficult to Assemble". So he bought a $22 light fixture, and was then surprised to find it cheaply made?!? (And I daresay, the "Difficult to Assemble" comment probably says more about the reviewer, than the product.)

The second negative "review" is even more amusing/telling. It reads: "I purchase a stainless steel clasp and it rusted over night. I also purchased husky tie downs for my truck which also worked one time before they broke. Is home depot the new harbor Fright or junk depot." How is this even remotely relevant to the product in question?!? (But notably, this reviewer goes on to say: "Pros: Easy to Assemble, Looks Great, Stylish, Very Bright, Nice Design".)

I say again: There's nothing sacred about those particular fixtures. They are what they are: Dirt cheap, widely available, decent-looking, and a viable substitute for similarly-priced standard open-tube "strip" fixtures while offering good bulb/tube protection and better (in most cases) light diffusion/distribution. But if you prefer to spend more for a more "up-market" similar fixture, by all means go for it.

 
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scott750

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
50
Location
Austin, TX
with my garage I have 6 main 4fters with a switch in ceiling to go from 1 main to all 6 when needed. Also have 1 4 ft over sink, 1 over tool tool area, and 2 over bench one in ceiling and 1 at eye level. I 8 4 fters in a 20 x 23 but don't use them all at once. I got them over the years from remodels and ppl getting rid of them.

View media item 30629
that the 6 main main lights. I do have to take better pic of this but think took that few months ago at 1 or 2 in morning. I also forgot the low voltage one above bench and under shelf one by sink

Nice looking shop!





If you are referring to the so-called "Customer Reviews" on the H.D. product page, you are mischaracterizing the situation significantly. First, the reviews are NOT predominantly, let alone completely, negative. The "score" as of this writing is:
Code:
5 Star(11)
4 Star(19)
3 Star(11)
2 Star(6)
1 Star(15)

So that's 29 positive, 11 Neutral, and 21 Negative. Perhaps not overwhelming universal acclaim; but not even close to "nothing but negative reviews."

Second, if you actually READ those "reviews", you'll realize that many of them (particularly the one-star-wonders, it seems) need to be taken with a grain of salt the size of Utah.

For example, the very first one (when sorted "Newest first") reads: "CHEAP, CHEP ,CHEAP, too hard to assemble and very cheap material, I threw the darn thing away. Cons: Difficult to Assemble". So he bought a $22 light fixture, and was then surprised to find it cheaply made?!? (And I daresay, the "Difficult to Assemble" comment probably says more about the reviewer, than the product.)

The second negative "review" is even more amusing/telling. It reads: "I purchase a stainless steel clasp and it rusted over night. I also purchased husky tie downs for my truck which also worked one time before they broke. Is home depot the new harbor Fright or junk depot." How is this even remotely relevant to the product in question?!? (But notably, this reviewer goes on to say: "Pros: Easy to Assemble, Looks Great, Stylish, Very Bright, Nice Design".)

I say again: There's nothing sacred about those particular fixtures. They are what they are: Dirt cheap, widely available, decent-looking, and a viable substitute for similarly-priced standard open-tube "strip" fixtures while offering good bulb/tube protection and better (in most cases) light diffusion/distribution. But if you prefer to spend more for a more "up-market" similar fixture, by all means go for it.




The lights don't have to be really cheap. I don't spending a little more to get something that will last.




I saw those. They are the slightly more expensive ones but supposedly made with much better components.
 

Jack90210

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Messages
304
Location
VA, USA
2ManyProjects, thanks for your carefully considered comments in this (now 5-month-old) thread. Much appreciated.
 

ebmiller88

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
50
FWIW, like you I needed more lighting in my 3 car garage as I only had 2-dual bulb T12 fixtures in it. I added two of these 4 bulb T8 fixtures and installed 6500K bulbs in them, and swapped my current fixture's bulbs to 6500K T12s and WOW what a difference. I have plenty of lighting now. I tapped into the old fixture's wiring and ran the wiring to the new fixtures on the surface. Difference is night and day.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_184346-1353...L=?Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=
 

BHR4CE1

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
952
Location
Long Beach, CA
I used twelve 4' recessed fixtures (2 t-8 bulbs in each) on separate switches. MORE than enough light. Looks like a paint booth when I turn them all on!

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