Group Buy - 7000 lb capacity 2 post lift - $2000 shipped to your door!

Wangstang · Nov 20, 2013

Portable 7000 lb capacity 2 post lift - UPDATE W/Discount code in post 1

UPDATE:
1/23/2013
Just got an email from Mr. Clark.

No C7000s are available for purchase at this time (for undisclosed reasons) so the listings were taken down until they are available again. All paid orders will be filled as agreed.

I guess we can considered this thread done for now.

12/11/2013 Update:
This lift is new to the market and the company manufacturing it, National Auto Tools, was a bit surprised by the number of questions they received on the lift. Their sales staff and tech support didn't anticipate the number of questions and level detail that would be requested so at times, the momentum of the thread came to a near snails pace. That said, National Auto Tools owner and head sales rep were very happy to learn from the input and questions they got here.

Here's the latest status:!

Toy2g said:
...For the people that are interested and for the sake of the the people that contributed to this thread we are setting a discount code effective as of now.

The code will last until the end of Jan.

"GJCHROME" and will get you the lift at the 11-14 GB price of $2225.

You can now place your orders online at www.nationalautotools.com

Thank you for this experience and the lessons learned.

So, if you are interested, you now have the end of January to purchase at a very nice discount.

Wes

Preserved for transparency sake is the original posting:
First I’d like to say thank you to Ryan here at the Garage Journal for his approval to post this group buy thread.

With that said, lets go straight to the deal:
National Auto Tools released a portable 7000lb lift system with a 6’ lifting height at the 2012 SEMA show called the Triumph C 7000.
http://www.nationalautotools.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=190

After several email exchanges directly with the head sales rep and the owner, I’ve been able to arrange a direct to customer group buy program that will run from Nov 25th through Dec 12th. More details are in post 3.

The pricing for this deal is highly dependant on the number of buyers so I highly encourage everyone interested in the group buy to spread the word as far as you can on the web.

Regular pricing is $2,599. The ebay store pricing at best has been $2,399.

3-5 buyers $2350 shipped to your garage door
6-10 buyers $2300 shipped to your garage door
11-14 buyers $2225 shipped to your garage door
15-19 buyers $2175 shipped to your garage door
20-23 buyers $2100 shipped to your garage door

24+ buyers $2000 shipped

EDIT Note: Apparently there was some confusion as to the level of off loading available with delivery. Discuss in detail with Nathan when you place your order...Please also see the posts toward page 8-11 for clarity on delivery expectations.

This pricing only applies to orders shipped to the lower 48 states here in the US. If you are outside of the US, contact Nathan directly for pricing.

Again….

The pricing for this deal is highly dependant on the number of buyers so I highly encourage everyone interested in the group buy to spread the word as far as you can on the web.

If you want in on this deal, please post in this main thread at the garage journal and follow the instructions in post #2 of this thread.

Note: You can hit the quote button, then copy and paste this first post into a thread at any other message board you think may have interested buyers at….making it easy to spread the word.

The official link for the primary thread here at the garage journal is:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=224636

Wangstang · Nov 20, 2013

UPDATE:
1/23/2013
Just got an email from Mr. Clark.

No C7000s are available for purchase at this time (for undisclosed reasons) so the listings were taken down until they are available again. All paid orders will be filled as agreed.

I guess we can considered this thread done for now.

____

Saved for future reference:

I divided the above post from this post to keep the deal information in a separate post from discussion about the logistics of the group buy and the discussion about the product. Doing so should make it easier to cross post the deal information to other message boards.

Basic technical specs of the C7000 with this post.
I can and more if you ask.

7,000 Lb. Capacity

Lifting Height 72"

Lowered Arm Clearance 4.5"

Automatic Locking Ladder System Welded - 14 different locking height points

Triple Telescoping Arms (All Four Positions)

Pad Extensions/Truck Adapters 3" and 6"

Voltage 110v/220v(buyers choice)

Overall Height 7'10" … or 94”

Width Between Posts 48"-110" (center to center) (You can adjust as you needed to fit your shop and application based on where you place the anchors)

Base plates use 6 bolts per pillar (included with anchors), drilled into 4” concrete slab of 3000+psi concrete.

WARRANTY
1 year Parts (includes: motors, pumps, chains, rollers, fittings, and locks)
5 years on structure (non moving steel components)

Wangstang · Nov 20, 2013

How will the purchase work?

Directly from the National Auto Tools Owner Ben Shurbet and their Senior Sales Rep, Nathan Clark:

1) Orders will be processed directly through National Auto Tools via Nathan Clark.
Phone: 1-866-563-LIFT (5438) OR 1-817-234-9800

***Update:
If you call the above number, which is fine, ask for the owner, Mr. Shurbet, when you order.

You can call Mr. Clark's direct line (614) 600-8406, he's at the newer Ohio, if you'd like.

Refer to the Garage Journal C7000 lift group buy when you call.

2) The buying window is November 25th, 2013 through December 12th, 2013.

3) Interested parties will pay a deposit if they intend to purchase during the buy. Deposit amount is aproximently 30%, a flat $700 and is refundable as described here:
Link

4) Once the deadline is reached, all persons who have made a deposit will have one week to pay the remaining balance.

5) Once balance is paid the lifts will ship.
NOTE: If we have 30 or more buyers, there will be some orders placed into backorder status. If you go into backorder status your order will not be charged/billed until 48 hours prior to shipping. If you are willing to go on backorder status if needed, let Nathan know as that would be helpful for them when it comes to keeping all the customers happy.

6) The final price will be tiered as shown and the price will depend on the number of participants.

What I ask is that if you are interested, go ahead and do the following:
1) Post in this thread and spread the word else where.

2) Send an email with your contact information and shipping address with the title “GARAGE JOURNAL GROUP BUY” to

Nathan Clark: [email protected]

In the event that Mr. Clark hasn’t heard from you with only a few days left in the group buy time window, I’d hope he’d drop you a message or call you to make sure you didn’t overlook calling to place your order.

PS: If you need or prefer to speak in Spanish, they have that ability and the website can be translated to Spanish with the click of the button in the top right of the webpage.

Wangstang · Nov 20, 2013

I’m not in any sort of a sales job and I don’t consider myself a salesman. I do look at things in a logical manner and try to maximize how far my dollars go so I’m going to share my thoughts about why I’m going to buy a C7000.

1) Why a portable lift system vs a fixed lift system?

There are a number of advantages to a portable system.
A) If you have limited shop space, you can disassemble and stow the lift out of the way when not needed in under 20 minutes.

B) If you have a medium to large shop, like I have, you have the potential for having multiple useful lift mounting locations with different widths and placement points in the shop. A portable system allows you to use one shop in all of those locations instead of having to purchase multiple lifts. I can’t afford more than one lift so this is very attractive to me.

C) While researching lifts I found that if I could only place a lift in one location in my shop, it would have to go where I also need to fit larger size trucks and farm equipment for service. The only non-portable lifts that would that had enough width to accommodate a larger truck(F350 size) easily hit $3500 plus tax with shipping only to a freight hub. That lift would be through Greg Smith Equipment and many other brands are quite a bit more. A portable lift system can be removed, allowing me to use the bay for larger truck and farm equipment work when needed. I doubt I’m the only one in this situation.

D) If you move, it’s easy to move the lift with you. And for that matter, if you have a local car club you could all chip in and share the lift amongst yourself.

E) If you need to set the system up outside for height clearance due to the ceilings in your shop, you can do so easily and then move it back inside for storage to keep it out of the weather.

F) As mentioned a little bit before, setup and take down time is extremely short. Once you have anchors in place you are looking at an under 20 minute setup and under 20 minute take down time. As an example you can see a MaxJax system going up in less than 15 minutes in this video posted by a Dodge Viper owner:

2) Why the Triumph C7000 over the MaxJax?

A) Max lifting height on the C7000 is 6’. MaxJax max lifting height is 4’

If your first thought is how can I use all of that lifting height in my 8’ garage, that’s a good point. If you have open rafters with enough spacing between rafters, you may have clearance. If you don’t, you can still stop the lift at 4’ just like a MaxJax if you wanted BUT you could also set up a second set of anchors just outside of your shop for the times when you need the extra clearance to work.

B) Lifting capacity of the C7000 is 7000 lbs. MaxJax capacity is 6000 lbs.

C) Both systems fit under an 8” ceiling.
Overall height of the C7000 system is 7’ 10”, or 94”.
Overall Height of the MaxJax system 7’ 5” or 89”.
The gains from the extra height of the pillars allows you to have considerably more lifting height and weight capacity.

D) C7000 uses a chain-over drive system which allows the lift cylinders to be contained in the lift pillars, keeping the cylinder system protected in the pillars.

E) Along the same lines as C & D, when you set the C7000 system up you’ll know where everything will be when in use. At least one owner set everything up for his MaxJax and bolted everything down only to find that the cylinder was inline with the track system of his garage door so he had to get creative as you can see in this photo:

F) As I mentioned before, a portable lift system is easy to move with you if you plan to move to another house in the future. While you may need the 8’ ceiling clearance now, you may find that you have more lifting height clearance in your next garage and it would be nice to be able to use it without having to buy another lift!

G) Recently there was a group buy on the MaxJax that worked out to $1800 before tax, delivered to a freight terminal plus a separate fee to get it to your shop plus a separate fee to send it on a truck with a lift gate. It appears the average lift gate delivered price worked out to $1900+ before taxes for the MaxJax during that group buy. Costco offers seasonal deals on the MaxJax for 2000 delivered plus taxes plus liftgate fees.

This group buy on the C7000 system will get you a heck of a lot more lift for your money than a the MaxJax price or just a touch more than the MaxJax price depending on the number of buyers we get….Did I mention that we get a better price if you help spread the word and get more buyers to join us?!!!

Wangstang · Nov 20, 2013

FAQ Technical and Otherwise

After doing a little research around here I found there were several questions that people had about this lift system since it was introduced last year. Unfortunately there wasn’t a single location that funneled where you could find those questions and answers, so here’s what I’ve put together by looking for the questions, exchanging messages with people here and sending the questions to the senior sales rep and the owner.

The senior sales rep referred many of these questions directly to the owner.

The owner apologized for any confusion in the past or lack of detailed communication in the past adding this comment:

We try and provide the customers with what they need to make an informed decision about our products. Some information just causes confusion [if the full context is not understood]. …. Perhaps we should and I would appreciate your group’s input on this.

Here are direct answers to questions from the Owner, Bud Shurbet:

A) Why aren't more details on the install process, to include details like what the torque spec is for the post bolts when the posts are bolted down, available?

The suggested torque is 110 lbs. However, if you go to www.itredhead.com the installation instructions say turn the nut 3-5 times after it is tightened. It never says to put a torque wrench on the anchor. We just feel these type instruction make it easier for a user to install the lift.

B) How does your system ensure that the lift arms are lowered in an even and level fashion without a cable system?

The proportioning/flow divider valve controls the flow in and out of the power unit. It provides each cylinder with the exact amount of fluid as the other one. It also only allows each cylinder to return the exact amount of the fluid as the other one. It also regulates the pressure to each cylinder. This keeps the lift level going up or coming down.

C) What safety systems are in place that prevents a car from being dumped off when lowering if once cylinder were to have a seal blow out?

Each cylinder has a secondary seal. This helps if the primary one goes out. The construction of the cylinders would never allow a complete failure of a seal. Once the vehicle is raised, the locks should always be engaged. The locks should only be disengaged when you are ready to lower the lift, so if a cylinder does develop a leak you simply lower the lift and then repair the cylinder. This is the same technology that Mohawk and PKS have used for years. It’s the same that Bend Pak uses with the Max Jack.

D) Why does the vehicle in the demonstration video noticeably rock as it is being lowered vs a smooth motion?

The problem with the rocking vehicle seen in the video was solved but adding 5’’ to the length of the carriage.

E) Why does the demonstration video lift look different(Color) than the actual product they are selling and if it's simply because the one in the video is a prototype, why didn't the company take the time to video the final product?

We are in the process of having a complete new web site built. We simply made the decision to put all of our new videos up at once. We are hoping to have the new web site up by Jan. 1st but I am not sure we will make it.

F) How much of a safety standard was built into this lift? General US standards would be that the lift is tested to 1.5 times it's rated lifting strength with no failure.

The testing and standards of automotive lifts is both confusing and complicated. There is actually no required standard for automotive lifts. ANSI, The American National Standard Institute prints and distributes the ANSI/ALI ALCTV:2011 standard.

This standard is written by lift companies. It is a totally voluntary standard and is not require by law or regulation. There is a lot of wrong and bad information about this standard on these forums.

There are also lift companies who don’t completely understand the standard. There is a video of a ‘’ Certain Competitor’s Lift’’ being tested to failure. The ANSI standard does require that a lift go through it’s full cycle twice with 1 ½ times its rated load capacity. The standard is very clear that an alternative power source can be used for this test, however the company that made the video makes a big deal out of the fact that it was necessary to use an alternative power source. A lift is designed to pick up what it is rated for. A 7000lb capacity lift is not intended to pick up 8000lbs. A lift is not required to raise 1 ½ it’s rated load capacity. The lift manufactures set the PSI on the power units to prevent this. The standard says, and remember this is a totally voluntary standard written for lift

companies by lift companies, that there is to be ‘’ no visually apparent’’ deformation of any of the lift structure after this test. So basically you just look at the lift and if you don’t see any problems it passed the test. No measurements of any kind required. Parts of this standard have even been changed through the years to help lift companies pass.

The 1 ½ load test is only a small part of the standard although many people think it’s all there is too it. Here is a small list of what the standard calls for.

1) Hydraulic hoses= 400%

2) Rigid piping=300%

3) Valves and fittings =300%

4) Pumps=150%

5) Cylinders=500%

6) Wire rope=500% or 300% depending on how it’s used

7) Sheaves=500%

8) Adapters=37.5%

9) Hydraulic drives=120%

10) Non-ductile materials=500%

This is by no means an exhaustive list but you get the point. Simply claiming a lift will support 1 ½ times its rated load capacity is just a start. National Auto Tools thoroughly test and re-test all of our equipment at or above the percentages listed above. All of our lifts have seen the 1 ½ rated load capacity test many times over. We do everything we can think of to make sure all of our equipment is safe. We have never had an accident or failure.

G) A user asked about bleeding the system and noted that he thought the MaxJax system used bleeder screws on the cylinders to ensure all air is out of the system. Does your system have bleeder screws on the cylinders and if not, how do they clear the air out?

There is no need for a bleeder screw on the C-7000. In order to make it as easy as possible for the buyer all of our lifts are self bleeding. I am not sure why the Max-Jack would need one. Self contained hydraulic systems do not need to be bled.

H) Where are more detailed photos of this lift design and construction posted online?

We do not give more details because they seem to cause confusion with the buyers. Perhaps we should and I would appreciate your group’s input on this.

I) Is the total price a true “to the garage door price” or would there be any hidden freight delivery fees, like a lift gate fee to lower it off the truck and such?

The final, agreed upon price will be all inclusive. We can include a lift gate at no charge.

Here’s a list of a few more FAQ type questions that were answered by the senior sales rep for me:

A) My first questions were about how their pricing compared to MaxJax and if they could meet the price points of the recent MaxJax Group Buy here at Garage Journal.

Other than being cable-less this lift is nothing like the MaxJax, it's heavier, stronger, and build to meat California storage lift restrictions. I cannot even get close to that price.

We offered it for 2499[shipped] on our eBay store, and I cannot go any lower.

If we could get our price point down to what the MaxJax is we would have to make sacrifices in quality. That's not to say the MaxJax is low quality, it is not, it is just built a lot different.

Ours is chain-over with 7'10" height able to lift to 72". It is built with 9000lbs carriages and 11000lbs at ripple telescoping arms. The locks are automatic and welded in and rated for storage up to 7000lbs.

I hope this explains my answer and you can understand why we cannot gouge the price like the MaxJax

B) After a few more email exchanges here's a bit more info on them:
In some of the photos the lifts are Blue and Yellow so I asked if that was an option...

We only offer this lift in Purple and Black. The one in the video was the number two prototype.

C) Are there any wear parts in this design, like plastic blocks and such? If so, do you stock parts and can you provide pricing?

There are rub blocks that we keep in stock. Typical wear cycle is 3-5 years[when used in full time shop]

The rub blocks a full set (16pcs) is $220.

D) Where are these lifts manufactured:

We are the manufacture of these lifts and they are imported from China, Canada and Mexico parts.

If you have any more questions or concerns, post them and I'll send them directly to Mr. Shurbet and Mr. Clark.

Thanks
Wes

phenryiv1 · Nov 20, 2013

Interesting...

bcradio · Nov 20, 2013

How many safety lock positions are there on this lift? I believe the maxjax lift has two safety lock positions maybe 3. I hope this lift has more than that as I need it for my Low ceiling garage.

TurboMiata · Nov 20, 2013

I'm curious as to why the manufacturer would choose not to have the lift certified to meet the most current ANSI/ALI standard? I imagine it is as safe as they say it is, but why not back it up with independent certification?

NHBandit · Nov 20, 2013

I have a Triumph 2 post lift from your company and I like it alot. No problems other than some minor shipping damage that was resolved. This is the one I bought and while it's not the same as the one being discussed here, I can say I'm happy with it. http://www.nationalautotools.com/two-post-automotive-lifts?product_id=181

Wangstang · Nov 20, 2013

bcradio said:
How many safety lock positions are there on this lift? I believe the maxjax lift has two safety lock positions maybe 3. I hope this lift has more than that as I need it for my Low ceiling garage.

I will ask tomorrow and get back to you.

Thanks
Wes

Wangstang · Nov 20, 2013

TurboMiata said:
I'm curious as to why the manufacturer would choose not to have the lift certified to meet the most current ANSI/ALI standard? I imagine it is as safe as they say it is, but why not back it up with independent certification?

I'll ask on this as well.

Wes

Coopduc · Nov 20, 2013

Is it possible to get copies of the owners manual and installation manual?

pmalavolti · Nov 20, 2013

i missed the maxjax buy. i'm in on this depending on when the deadline is.

Coopduc · Nov 20, 2013

Also, can this be operated using only one post for lifting a motorcycle?

olytdi · Nov 20, 2013

Glad to see another portable, smaller lift offering out there. One thing I'm unclear about is how going to 6 ft is an asset. If the vehicle isn't up high enough to walk about underneath freely, I would rather just have it high enough to sit under on my scooter stool. It's one of the reasons I went with the MaxJax.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not interested in bashing this lift as I think more options are nothing but good. Just curious on how getting the lift up to 6 ft helps if you're not under 5 ft 8 inches in height.....

alxdgr8 · Nov 20, 2013

Possibly interested, was thinking of MaxJaxx but the higher lift and capacity is intriguing.

RAYJAY · Nov 20, 2013

olytdi said:
Glad to see another portable, smaller lift offering out there. One thing I'm unclear about is how going to 6 ft is an asset. If the vehicle isn't up high enough to walk about underneath freely, I would rather just have it high enough to sit under on my scooter stool. It's one of the reasons I went with the MaxJax.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not interested in bashing this lift as I think more options are nothing but good. Just curious on how getting the lift up to 6 ft helps if you're not under 5 ft 8 inches in height.....

for us taller guys it will work better, it also looks to have more height locks than the maxjax no pin holes

TheWhiteMamba · Nov 21, 2013

Coopduc said:
Also, can this be operated using only one post for lifting a motorcycle?

I'm also interested in this group buy and would be even MORE interested if they have a motorcycle adapter available or know if their competitor they refer to as "Bend Pak Max Jack" motorcycle adapter is compatible.

AZ Garage · Nov 21, 2013

Interested!

1949 caddyman · Nov 21, 2013

Coopduc said:
Is it possible to get copies of the owners manual and installation manual?

I also need to see the printed owners manual with the parts break down, warantee, specs. etc.

BJett · Nov 21, 2013

I'm interested, would also need to see the owners manual and warranty info before I ordered. Purchase info says deposit needed, how much $$ and is it refundable if the group buy doesn't work out? This could be the lift deal I have been waiting for.

bcradio · Nov 21, 2013

olytdi said:
Glad to see another portable, smaller lift offering out there. One thing I'm unclear about is how going to 6 ft is an asset. If the vehicle isn't up high enough to walk about underneath freely, I would rather just have it high enough to sit under on my scooter stool. It's one of the reasons I went with the MaxJax.

Ever work on brakes?

Ign · Nov 21, 2013

olytdi said:
Glad to see another portable, smaller lift offering out there. One thing I'm unclear about is how going to 6 ft is an asset. If the vehicle isn't up high enough to walk about underneath freely, I would rather just have it high enough to sit under on my scooter stool. It's one of the reasons I went with the MaxJax.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not interested in bashing this lift as I think more options are nothing but good. Just curious on how getting the lift up to 6 ft helps if you're not under 5 ft 8 inches in height.....

It goes as high or higher than any 2 post lift of which I'm aware. For trucks at least you can get your extra height from adapters.

I'm assuming you've never worked under a fullsize 2 post lift? In most cases you don't want the vehicle as high as you'd think. I'll often put trucks such that I have to duck under the rockers but once you're under it your head can "tuck" into large open areas. Anything truly high enough "to walk about underneath freely" is, in actuality, VERY hard to work on because of the additional leverage needed to actually tug, pull or push on any given component.

bimmerZ5 · Nov 21, 2013

very interested... need to go measure ceiling height in my garage... what's the minimum recommended height?

chops101 · Nov 21, 2013

I'm definitely interested.

I have 116" to work with in my present garage, and the quick portability is an interesting aspect as I have another garage in the works; it just needs retrofitting. This would allow me to get a lift use now and move it easily in a year.

I would also like more data- owners manual and warranty....And a note back to the owner; declaring that more information 'just confuses' the potential buyer is at best a little insulting. That feedback needs to be routed back to the owner. I'm an Engineer and live on data.

With that said, this company has had some complaints on the BBB. Usually when a consumer takes the time to reach out to the BBB, they are at the max on the frustration meter and at last resort will file a complaint. Most issues can be quickly mitigated with open communication and an action plan.

This is cut and paste right off the BBB website. It is public knowledge. There is not an indication of what model number lift is at issue here, only that the holes are not aligned to put the lift together. It is also noted the issue has been closed:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Consumer Complaints

BBB Accredited Business since 3/28/2013

National Auto Tools

(866) 563-5438

6 complaints closed with BBB in last 3 years | 2 closed in last 12 months

Complaint Type

Total Closed Complaints

Advertising/Sales Issues

1

Billing/Collection Issues

0

Delivery Issues

0

Guarantee/Warranty Issues

2

Problems with Product/Service

3

Total Closed Complaints

6

BBB found business made good faith effort to resolve complaint but customer not satisfied with business response (2 complaints)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

5/16/2012

Problems with Product/Service | Read Complaint Details
X
Additional Notes

Complaint: There are many problems with this transaction. To make this as brief as possible I am only going to give account of the major problem preventing me from using the lift. On 9/12/11 around 8:30 am I notified the company via email that there were some holes drilled incorrectly and that the lift assembly could not be completed and that it needed to be fixed. I followed up with a phone call, in fact through out the business week I called 7 times. Each time I was told someone would call me back and that never happened. On Wednesday the 14th, I was told by ****** that *** would come out to my house on Saturday to fix the lift. He said someone would call me to set up an appointment time. After not hearing from the company, I called on Friday the 16th to inquire about the repair appointment. The person I spoke with said ****** was out but he would call ****** to see what was going on and call me back. He never called me back. I called the company on Saturday the 17th and spoke with *******. Similar to the previous call on Friday, he said he would call ****** to find out what was going on. He did return my call approximately 2 hours later but said he could not reach ******. However, when I called the company back today, I got ****** and he said ******* had not contacted him so once again I was told some action was going to take place that did not. During the call today, ****** put me on hold to text ***. After several minutes, Josh came on the line and said, "All I can tell you is that someone will be out this week to fix the lift". I asked if he could give me a day and he said no. Because of being told so many times that the company was going to do something and them not doing it, I have lost trust in the company. So I contacted ******** *******, and opened up an inquiry with them. I also felt the Better Business Bureau should be aware of the business practices of National Auto Tools, especially in light that there have been complaints on the company previously.

Desired Settlement: I would like for a representative from the company to come to my house this week Monday-Friday at a convenient time for me and finish the assembly of the product by making appropriate repairs to all pieces that will not go together correctly, inspect the entire unit with me pointing out where parts were substituted because the hardware kit was incorrect, sign off on the unit being properly assembled and extend the warranty period so that there is the standard one year warranty from the date the lift actually can be used.

BBB's Final Determination: Business offered a resolution. Consumer did not pursue further with BBB and the matter was assumed to be resolved

Toy2g · Nov 21, 2013

Let me start by saying thank you to Wangstang for putting in the effort to start the group buy. I do not have the ability to field question from this forum on a regular basis, and he has quite selflessly taken this on for the good of the group.

that said I will try to get on here from time to time to help with some questions as I have down time or I am not traveling.

bcradio said:
How many safety lock positions are there on this lift? I believe the maxjax lift has two safety lock positions maybe 3. I hope this lift has more than that as I need it for my Low ceiling garage.

The lift automatically locks ever 5.5"

TurboMiata said:
I'm curious as to why the manufacturer would choose not to have the lift certified to meet the most current ANSI/ALI standard? I imagine it is as safe as they say it is, but why not back it up with independent certification?

ANSI and ALI are both paid services (just under $24000 per model) and for a small family company to pay Rotary that amount of money to give us a subscription is hard to swallow. Please also not two things. #1 these are optional programs, not govt certifications. #2 mobile lifts such as this and the MJ cannot carry an ALI due to the fact it does not have equalization cables. so even if we had an extra 20k+ to throw at this, it would not be "certifiable" just like the MaxJax by Dannmar (not BendPak)

NHBandit said:
I have a Triumph 2 post lift from your company and I like it alot. No problems other than some minor shipping damage that was resolved. This is the one I bought and while it's not the same as the one being discussed here, I can say I'm happy with it. http://www.nationalautotools.com/two-post-automotive-lifts?product_id=181

Thank you very much for your input.

Coopduc said:
Also, can this be operated using only one post for lifting a motorcycle?

we do have customers that use a single leg to lift smaller vehicles, for instance, I have had customers use a single leg to lift motorcycles and lawnmowers. they designed a platform on their own to achieve this.

olytdi said:
Glad to see another portable, smaller lift offering out there. One thing I'm unclear about is how going to 6 ft is an asset. If the vehicle isn't up high enough to walk about underneath freely, I would rather just have it high enough to sit under on my scooter stool. It's one of the reasons I went with the MaxJax.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not interested in bashing this lift as I think more options are nothing but good. Just curious on how getting the lift up to 6 ft helps if you're not under 5 ft 8 inches in height.....

The jack lifting height is 72", However it does come with extensions allowing up to an additional 6" (you should never stack spacers if it can be avoided) each lift comes with a set of four 6" and 3" spacers.

RAYJAY said:
for us taller guys it will work better, it also looks to have more height locks than the maxjax no pin holes

Please see above coments

Ign said:
It goes as high or higher than any 2 post lift of which I'm aware. For trucks at least you can get your extra height from adapters.

I'm assuming you've never worked under a fullsize 2 post lift? In most cases you don't want the vehicle as high as you'd think. I'll often put trucks such that I have to duck under the rockers but once you're under it your head can "tuck" into large open areas. Anything truly high enough "to walk about underneath freely" is, in actuality, VERY hard to work on because of the additional leverage needed to actually tug, pull or push on any given component.

This is correct, in most cases you lift the lowest point of the vehicle, thus when under the vehicle there is additional head room.

Lastly, I see people asking about install instructions, all that I currently have is the Powerpoint we did for our Launch at SEMA Last year. With all of our new products being launched, I have not taken the time to have a proper set of instruction drawn up. I will bump this up the list of ToDos.

Thank you all for your time and interest, and Wangstang, thank you for your effort, I hope these guys know how much time you have sunk into this already.

Toy2g · Nov 21, 2013

chops101 said:
I'm definitely interested.

I have 116" to work with in my present garage, and the quick portability is an interesting aspect as I have another garage in the works; it just needs retrofitting. This would allow me to get a lift use now and move it easily in a year.

I would also like more data- owners manual and warranty....And a note back to the owner; declaring that more information 'just confuses' the potential buyer is at best a little insulting. That feedback needs to be routed back to the owner. I'm an Engineer and live on data.

With that said, this company has had some complaints on the BBB. Usually when a consumer takes the time to reach out to the BBB, they are at the max on the frustration meter and at last resort will file a complaint. Most issues can be quickly mitigated with open communication and an action plan.

This is cut and paste right off the BBB website. It is public knowledge. There is not an indication of what model number lift is at issue here, only that the holes are not aligned to put the lift together. It is also noted the issue has been closed:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Consumer Complaints

BBB Accredited Business since 3/28/2013

National Auto Tools

(866) 563-5438

6 complaints closed with BBB in last 3 years | 2 closed in last 12 months

Complaint Type

Total Closed Complaints

Advertising/Sales Issues

1

Billing/Collection Issues

0

Delivery Issues

0

Guarantee/Warranty Issues

2

Problems with Product/Service

3

Total Closed Complaints

6

BBB found business made good faith effort to resolve complaint but customer not satisfied with business response (2 complaints)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

5/16/2012

Problems with Product/Service | Read Complaint Details
X
Additional Notes

Complaint: There are many problems with this transaction. To make this as brief as possible I am only going to give account of the major problem preventing me from using the lift. On 9/12/11 around 8:30 am I notified the company via email that there were some holes drilled incorrectly and that the lift assembly could not be completed and that it needed to be fixed. I followed up with a phone call, in fact through out the business week I called 7 times. Each time I was told someone would call me back and that never happened. On Wednesday the 14th, I was told by ****** that *** would come out to my house on Saturday to fix the lift. He said someone would call me to set up an appointment time. After not hearing from the company, I called on Friday the 16th to inquire about the repair appointment. The person I spoke with said ****** was out but he would call ****** to see what was going on and call me back. He never called me back. I called the company on Saturday the 17th and spoke with *******. Similar to the previous call on Friday, he said he would call ****** to find out what was going on. He did return my call approximately 2 hours later but said he could not reach ******. However, when I called the company back today, I got ****** and he said ******* had not contacted him so once again I was told some action was going to take place that did not. During the call today, ****** put me on hold to text ***. After several minutes, Josh came on the line and said, "All I can tell you is that someone will be out this week to fix the lift". I asked if he could give me a day and he said no. Because of being told so many times that the company was going to do something and them not doing it, I have lost trust in the company. So I contacted ******** *******, and opened up an inquiry with them. I also felt the Better Business Bureau should be aware of the business practices of National Auto Tools, especially in light that there have been complaints on the company previously.

Desired Settlement: I would like for a representative from the company to come to my house this week Monday-Friday at a convenient time for me and finish the assembly of the product by making appropriate repairs to all pieces that will not go together correctly, inspect the entire unit with me pointing out where parts were substituted because the hardware kit was incorrect, sign off on the unit being properly assembled and extend the warranty period so that there is the standard one year warranty from the date the lift actually can be used.

BBB's Final Determination: Business offered a resolution. Consumer did not pursue further with BBB and the matter was assumed to be resolved

As much as I think posting a small sample of bad PR on a public form is of poor taste. I will try to put this into perspective.

If you sell anything, there will be SOMEONE who is unhappy, it is the nature of the game. If you have sold on eBay you know this too well. And when you sell things such as equipment that has to be assembled, to people who may not have the ability to do said assembly; it compounds the unhappy and can cause strife.

That said in 2012 we sold just over 6.9 million dollars in equipment, this equates to just over 4200 pcs of equipment sold per year. And you better believe there are times when things do not go smooth. We try very hard to take care of customers and if you read our BBB we are "A" and also we are accredited...and that comes from a certain amount of dedication.

FWIW we have 0.02% attrition rate (unhappy customers) and the industry standard is loosely set at 1.5% over a 48 month period.

I hope this sheds some light on the topic posted above.

Thank you for your time, let me know if I can be of any further help.

Toy2g · Nov 21, 2013

BJett said:
I'm interested, would also need to see the owners manual and warranty info before I ordered. Purchase info says deposit needed, how much $$ and is it refundable if the group buy doesn't work out? This could be the lift deal I have been waiting for.

Warranty is 1 years Parts (includes: motors, pumps, chains, rollers, fittings, and locks) and 5 years on structure (non moving steel components)

If the group buy is not a success all money will be refunded, we are not the mob..lol

EDIT:
However, because of inventory nightmares, if someone backs out of the group buy even if we have honored the price there may be a restocking fee of 5-10%

chops101 · Nov 21, 2013

Toy2g said:
As much as I think posting a small sample of bad PR on a public form is of poor taste. I will try to put this into perspective.

Thanks for your response. It does help and add weight to hear from the owner.

It is neither poor taste posting or responding in an honest effort of open communication in a public forum, so don't be too quick to go on the defensive with the buying public. You have a wide range of readers and a wide range of intellectual knowledge that decodes/deciphers verbiage at varying levels.

The issue at hand here, if you go back and read all posts related to your product, is the 'unknowns' and absent feedback reviews from actual consumers. The BBB is a good place to start. And right, it is hard to please everyone all the time; however eBay is not wise comparison to make.

I am very interested still, just would like installation/parts layout data. If the product is fully patented, this disclosure should not be a difficult or hard decision.

Coopduc · Nov 21, 2013

Toy2g said:
Lastly, I see people asking about install instructions, all that I currently have is the Powerpoint we did for our Launch at SEMA Last year. With all of our new products being launched, I have not taken the time to have a proper set of instruction drawn up. I will bump this up the list of ToDos.

With all due respect, I find it hard to believe you are selling a safety critical product and don't have installation instructions and operation/owner's manuals immediately available!

ipp · Nov 21, 2013

How do I find out what concrete I have in my garage? I suppose I can drill to see if I have 4 inches, but 3000 PSI? I want this item, but I need to know the installation challenges I may face here.

phenryiv1 · Nov 21, 2013

ipp said:
How do I find out what concrete I have in my garage? I suppose I can drill to see if I have 4 inches, but 3000 PSI? I want this item, but I need to know the installation challenges I may face here.

You are not the first to face this issue.

Tarheelgarage · Nov 21, 2013

So, this lift is being made in China?

A few questions

1. What type of Quality Controls do you have in place at the factory?
2. Do you have final inspection of the product in China and again upon receipt
3. What type of welding certifications do the operators in China have that are building the lift? Are these certs verifiable by your company or an agent acting on behalf of your company?
4. What is the source for the steel that is used? How is this verified to meet your build/quality standards?

torquepower85 · Nov 21, 2013

Hm

the carriage on your lift looks familiar

seen it... here... http://www.bendpak.com/a-study-in-lift-design/Cheap-Lift-vs-BendPak/

also here... http://www.liftsuperstore.com/products/2-post-lifts-2/item/1-2-post-lifts/51-fastback-ml-6000lbs

gdavenport · Nov 21, 2013

I'm in.

Toy2g · Nov 21, 2013

Coopduc said:
With all due respect, I find it hard to believe you are selling a safety critical product and don't have installation instructions and operation/owner's manuals immediately available!

Our safety service and warranty portion of our manuals are all the same inserted in to all if our two post manuals. What I am lacking is the install instructions as well as well as some minor other information for operation that we typically put in a manual.

ipp said:
How do I find out what concrete I have in my garage? I suppose I can drill to see if I have 4 inches, but 3000 PSI? I want this item, but I need to know the installation challenges I may face here.

It is not easy to figure this out if you do not know. In most cases you will have to drill a sample in an unnoticeable area of your floor to test thickness.

Tarheelgarage said:
So, this lift is being made in China?

A few questions

1. What type of Quality Controls do you have in place at the factory?
2. Do you have final inspection of the product in China and again upon receipt
3. What type of welding certifications do the operators in China have that are building the lift? Are these certs verifiable by your company or an agent acting on behalf of your company?
4. What is the source for the steel that is used? How is this verified to meet your build/quality standards?

The most of our production lifts do come from China just like Bendpak and challenger. And like our competitors we use certified factory's to build our products, factory's that are ISO9001 or higher certified. In addition we (myself personally) frequent the factories in China for QC.

ISO pertains to production and operational procedures.

As far as the source of steel, and all other components; this is exactly why we used certified manufacturing plants as well as do our own QC.

torquepower85 said:
Hm

the carriage on your lift looks familiar

seen it... here... http://www.bendpak.com/a-study-in-lift-design/Cheap-Lift-vs-BendPak/

That states clearly the model number of a Tuxedo lift. Not only are we not affiliated with them, but they are one of if not the lowest standard companies in the US. They are based out of California and have been around for quite a while.

Your statement, is similar to saying.... Your BFG tire sure looks the same shape as the firestone tires that were blowing up. Lift columns and carriages look very similar in most models, the big difference is friction and weight displacement along with material quality...none of witch you can see in a picture.

torquepower85 · Nov 21, 2013

Toy2g said:
Your statement, is similar to saying.... Your BFG tire sure looks the same shape as the firestone tires that were blowing up. Lift columns and carriages look very similar in most models, the big difference is friction and weight displacement along with material quality...none of witch you can see in a picture.

Found another one look above....

Just saying that's after 5 minutes of google...

Ryan · Nov 21, 2013

A quick note as I've gotten a lot of private messages:

The Garage Journal is not associated with this group buy at all - it's just being organized by users here on the forum. I have never used or even seen one of these lifts in operation and I'm not the guy to go to for advice on these... I personally own an MaxJax and love the damned thing.

I just wanted that to be clear as some folks seems to think I'm organizing and/or getting paid for this...

Thanks,

ryan

Toy2g · Nov 21, 2013

torquepower85 said:
Found another one look above....

Just saying that's after 5 minutes of google...

Yup that's a new one, we have not seen it before. But like most things in China once you put in the effort to have one made, within a year there are 3 or 4 knockoffs.

Again like your first link this lift is not only different, but only avail in Canada. It lifts to only 54", its rated at 6000lbs..it has 6000lbs arms (not 9000lbs like ours). No rollers, shorter carriages and so on. It is as much like ours as a KIA Sportage is a Lexus RX450... It looks similar to the very untrained eye.

This is our design, but china cares little about keeping information private.

One big difference is, we are on the 4th revision of ours, because the first 7 of them we gave away for real world testing, and have had to make changes due to feedback from users. This is why our video is shot on one of the prototype lifts (prototype #2 to be exact)

I'm not sure if you are interested in the lift at all or just trying to discredit it with links to completely unrelated products. If you are interested, please stop trying to sell tuxedo lifts as ours.

Znatural1 · Nov 21, 2013

What's the deposit?

Group Buy - 7000 lb capacity 2 post lift - $2000 shipped to your door!

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