Ko-ken Tools -- What Makes this Brand Special !?!?

ChevyEFI · Jan 5, 2014

Any translation available on the ratchet pawls picture? They seem similar in tooth count.

superautobacs · Jan 5, 2014

Unlike the single/batman-pawl that's been synonymous with Snap-on's modern ratchets, Ko-ken still produces the age-old double-pawl ratchet. Although the batman pawl type had been developed for greater strength in mind, there's still something to be desired by the user-friendliness of the low reverse drag on the Proto-type, double-pawl. Although the pawls on the former type were said to be weaker, the newer two-step dog type pawl addresses that previous concern.

cleeny · Jan 15, 2014

Apologies if this post is a bit off topic but anyone know if a regular torx drive would damage this screwhead?
Do I need a torx-plus or ribe for this?

I'm unfamiliar with this type of screwhead...

This is a 3725Z Zeal series Ko-ken 3/8 ratchet btw

Trucky · Jan 15, 2014

It wouldn't terribly damage it.. but it would a little. To maintain the wonderfully formed end of that screw, you'll need to source a Torx-Plus driver.

Here's a good set:

Wiha torx plus screwdriver set

superautobacs · Jan 16, 2014

If you need the right size it's a torx-plus 8IP (part# 168T-8IP(40)). For the 2725RK (1/4" drive), it's a 6IP (part# 168T-6IP(40)).

cleeny · Jan 16, 2014

Thanks, Trucky and Subacs.

Did some additional surfin and came across the image attached.
Although a bit vague, there appears to be a general consensus that torx bits are "compatible" with torx plus fasteners. Something sensible and new to my ears.

In any case, I'll take the "safer" route and get myself a dedicated bit. Thanks again. :thumbup:

tshetter · Jan 16, 2014

superautobacs said:
Some new Ko-ken tools I got:

1/2" drive impact socket with a double universal

Have you used the 1/2" double universal yet? Any thoughts you can share on it?

I'm thinking of ordering one from Frank's and was looking for some feedback/review on it.

Thanks.

superautobacs · Jan 16, 2014

I've only gotten one, real-world use out of them. It was for removing the nut on a strut assembly while I had it mounted on a strut press. I needed that extra angle to get to the nut.

It's definitely not something you need on a regular basis, but it's nice to have.

I'm contemplating on whether to get the 3/8" drive version to go along with my cordless impact.

straightcut · Jan 16, 2014

I have had a set of Koken Whitworth sockets for my Series II Land Rover for several years. The quality of these sockets is outstanding!

Due to declining Craftsman ratchet quality, I just picked up two Koken 1/2" drive ratchets from this vendor: http://www.levelchrome.com/ They're having a "warehouse sale" and the prices are attractive. I wasn't looking for a fine tooth, being it's 1/2" drive. If the quality matches the sockets, I'll be thrilled!

Wakefield · Jan 16, 2014

I believe that it is a selling point that Torx works in Torx + holes but I think that if you tightened up the Torx + as much as possible with the proper + bit,then tried to untighten it with the plain Torx bit,it would wallow out.
I can't seem to see the difference in the smaller size Torx vs. Torx + without a magnifying glass or something. (for #123 post)

cleeny · Jan 16, 2014

I know exactly what you mean, and I agree, Wakefield.

Thanks for the precise response btw, Subacs. Just got a Wiha 362IP 8IP since no dealers around here carry the Ko-ken or any other driver or key. :thumbup:

superautobacs · Jan 16, 2014

Cleeny,

You're welcome. :thumbup:

If you get the chance, please show us some pictures of Ko-ken's wickedly smooth ratcheting mechanism.

Applesauce · Jan 17, 2014

superautobacs said:
Cleeny,

You're welcome. If you get the chance, please show us some pictures of Ko-ken's wickedly smooth ratcheting mechanism.

+1. Pictures, please! I need something to sate me until mine arrive...

cleeny · Jan 17, 2014

Haha, sounds good, guys. I just received my 362IP but won't be able to post or take pictures right now since I'm at work, but I will do so within a few days.

In the meantime, you can check this out:
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/wakaguricom/16681629.html

unashamedlaborer · Jan 17, 2014

ricleh said:
The 1/4" drive systems are indeed very different. I was only attempting to show that the Snapon system is lower profile than the Koken Zeal. I only use these tools for their special purpose - to get to fasteners with very little clearance where a normal ratchet and socket won't work. I don't use them for normal work. The Snapon design difference gives them the advantage as far as low profile is concerned. You cannot use them with other 1/4" ratchets and sockets though. That has not been a problem for me.

The 3/8" drive systems are much more similar as you said. Here again though, I only use them for special situations that call for them. I always have used the ratchet and sockets together. I went and checked and the ratchet works just fine with regular sockets and the low profile sockets work just fine with a standard 3/8" ratchet. The fit is tight with no slop in both situations. I don't know why you would want to do it, but you could use the low profile ratchet and sockets interchangebly with standard 3/8" ratchets and sockets.

I am a mobile mechanic and when you are working out of a tool bag you need tools that work well in more applications. More versatile. That's why my standard go to ratchet is the low pro snap on. Wether it's with low pro sockets or not. And it's usually not, it does two jobs instead of one. Works great by the way with Allen sockets in electrical cabinets.

cleeny · Jan 19, 2014

Some images of my 3725Z as promised

superautobacs · May 11, 2014

I recently got my first taste of Zeal 1/4" drive socketry items to try out. I got a PH2 and PH3 bit socket and a 10mm socket to try out.

I was already aware from the specs that the Zeal 1/4" shallow sockets were very small, but when you actually see it on your hand you can truly appreciate its small stature.

So, I decided to compare it with most of my other 10mm sized sockets that I have in 1/4" drive.

Dimensional comparisons:

1/4" drive

Then I decided to gather the 3/8" drive 10mm sockets as well for comparison.
3/8" drive:

Here they are all lined up.

3/8" on the left and 1/4" drive on the right:

1/4" drive on the front and 3/8" on the background:

A feature that's unique only to Ko-ken's Zeal product line.
This detent profile allows for the most positive and play-free engagement. Nothing I've handled compares to these.

Just another example of Zeal's unique features. :thumbup:

BK13 · May 11, 2014

Pics aren't working for me...

superautobacs · May 11, 2014

Some more comparison shots I've found on the net:

3/8" drive　10mm: Zeal / KTC / Snap-on

3/8" drive　10mm: KTC / Nepros / Zeal / Snap-on

3/8" drive　10mm: Nepros / Hazet / Dean

3/8" drive　8mm: Snap-on / Stahlwille / KTC / Nepros / Hazet / Ko-ken / Signet

BK13 · May 11, 2014

BK13 said:
Pics aren't working for me...

Never mind, working now.

Monte · May 11, 2014

very nice comparison pics superautobacs ! Thanks ! :thumbup:

superautobacs · May 13, 2014

You're most welcome, Monte!

Another comparison shot between two 1/4" drive ratchets. I know it's not really a fair comparison as it's not two pear head ratchets, but nonetheless a comparison.

Sorry for the terrible cell phone photos

Zeal and Mac

superautobacs · Jun 21, 2014

License to produce Torx drive tools? Of course!

I recently browsed their impact socketry catalogue and thought these would be a nice addition:

superautobacs · Jun 21, 2014

Specialty or one-of-a-kind tools? You betcha.

motoretro · Jun 21, 2014

Not sure if they're special or not, I purchased a set of Ko-ken 3/8" drive sockets, ratchet and extension all in a small red metal toolbox with wire handle back in the early 1980's, made in Korea. Why? Because the sockets were in British Whitworth sizing. Bought them from an old school Triumph Motorcycle dealer. I had several Triumphs, Nortons, etc to work on at the time and it was tough to find decent tools in BSW.
Motoretro

superautobacs · Jul 6, 2014

Some new items I recently got from Frankstools:

1/2" drive, 12-point impact sockets:

1/2" drive wheel lock bolt/nut buster:

14mm, 12-point magnetic sparkplug socket:

got this to compliment my 10mm variant--an 8mm nut setter with nut-grip:

1/2" drive quick-release bit holder for 11mm impact-rated bits:

11mm bits:

superautobacs · Jul 6, 2014

Here's a compilation of their Nut Grip and magnetic sockets:

The deep sockets are a slide magnet type:

1/4" hex drive nutsetters:

Newly released tools:

superautobacs · Nov 5, 2014

superautobacs said:
I guess I can chime in a bit about the durability of Koken's impact sockets. I haven't used them for too long though (a little over one year). The 1/2" drive 17mm wheel impact socket deep gets near exclusive use on wheel bolts.

It is my go-to socket for wheel bolt removal and it finally bit the dust after extensive use. It was my go-to because of the necked-down shaft, its longer length (longer than standard deepwells), and for its protective sleeve. I must say that 98% of the time I would've been OK with using a standard deepwell socket, but the thin-wall impact was soo much easier to work with that I kept using it even when the situation didn't call for it. So, after 1+ year of use, the broached end now has one hairline crack at the thinnest spot. Keep in mind this socket was used to remove/install a hundred or two hundred sets of wheels.

I've now switched to using their standard deepwell socket about a month ago. The amount of deformation, or the lack thereof, on the square end is impressive.

I'm impressed with their impact stuff and have no hesitation to acquire more.

I posted the above about an year ago.

I finally got my replacement 17mm socket and before I toss it, I decided to take a few shots to show the wear.

I use a 17mm socket almost exclusively for wheel bolts and so it has seen the impact hundreds of times over the course of its life. Considering that, i think the wear is exceptional. The sleeve never became an issue.

Cheap Sunex/GP impact sockets simply can't compare. I have a set of Sunex 3/8" drive impact sockets that I use with my Fuel M18 impact wrench and they show deformation on both drive ends even though they are used less frequently with much less abuse.
Just my observations....YRMV.

The red highlights the wear ..... the arrow points to the crack.

Crown Imperial · Nov 6, 2014

Hmmmm.
Couple of things here.
Can't compare deformation on the drive end between 3/8" and 1/2" sockets. More surface area to transfer torque means lower strain on the material of the 1/2'" drive.
What's the Sunnex socket. Cr Mo or Va? And the Koken?
There is always a compromise between having an alloy that is hard enough not to deform and not too hard that it will crack. Your Koken socket seems might be a bit too hard. The Sunex socket might a tad soft but then again it might not have a propensity to crack.

espyking83 · Nov 6, 2014

Every Koken tool that I have purchased has been outstanding. Quality meets or exceeds Snap On.

herfalerf · Nov 7, 2014

I am curious if there are any web vendors that carry the FULL line of kokens zeal series? kokens usa site only lists 3/8 drive variant and the 4 vendors they list all seem to have limited selection of the koken products. levelchrome has no zeal that i could see, i think franks had the most but did not seem to carry the 3/8 deepwell sockets. im looking to pick up the 1/4 and 3/8 shallow and deep.

also im wondering if all of kokens impact sockets have the pin style holder on the square end or if they have detents for ring style drive. all my impacts have ring style adapters and it irritates me when sockets and extensions fall off because there is no detent on the inside of the socket.

SawtoothJL · Nov 8, 2014

herfalerf said:
I am curious if there are any web vendors that carry the FULL line of kokens zeal series? kokens usa site only lists 3/8 drive variant and the 4 vendors they list all seem to have limited selection of the koken products. levelchrome has no zeal that i could see, i think franks had the most but did not seem to carry the 3/8 deepwell sockets. im looking to pick up the 1/4 and 3/8 shallow and deep.

also im wondering if all of kokens impact sockets have the pin style holder on the square end or if they have detents for ring style drive. all my impacts have ring style adapters and it irritates me when sockets and extensions fall off because there is no detent on the inside of the socket.

Alan at levelchrome can order anything from the koken catalog, no matter if its listed on the website. Franks tools also has A small, but nice selection.

dede2897234 · Nov 8, 2014

herfalerf,

I have ordered from LevelChrome multiple times. If you contact Alan at "[email protected]", he will be able to quote you a price from anything in the Ko-ken tool catalog including the Zeal series. He will even price match with Frankstools.com.

Dave

SantaAna12 · Nov 8, 2014

I was wondering where this sales pitch was going.

Nice tools though.

motofool33 · Nov 8, 2014

nice tools thos thin wall impacts are nice, that was the first thing i didn't like about my williams impacts too thick for small stuff

superautobacs · Nov 9, 2014

Crown Imperial said:
Hmmmm.
Couple of things here.
Can't compare deformation on the drive end between 3/8" and 1/2" sockets. More surface area to transfer torque means lower strain on the material of the 1/2'" drive.
What's the Sunnex socket. Cr Mo or Va? And the Koken?
There is always a compromise between having an alloy that is hard enough not to deform and not too hard that it will crack. Your Koken socket seems might be a bit too hard. The Sunex socket might a tad soft but then again it might not have a propensity to crack.

I understand that my observations are not exactly fair.

I do know that my 3/8 Sunex impacts, which are almost solely used by my cordless M18 Fuel impact, appear to be softer based on the amount use it has seen. I'll see how they hold up.

AFAIK, Ko-ken doesn't list it on their catalogue, but I'd imagine they use CrMo. Though, what's more important than the base ingredient itself is the processing that occurs after the forging--that will greatly influence the durability of the material.

Something that everyone should keep in mind with those Ko-ken lug nut/bolt impact socket is the outer diameter. The specs below is for a 17mm socket:

Standard chrome: 24mm

thin-walled impact: 24.2mm

standard impact: 25.7mm

protective impact with sleeve: 25.2mm

protective impact w/out sleeve: 23.7mm

That should provide a better perspective as to how thin they are.

superautobacs · Nov 9, 2014

Another interesting comparison of 3/8 drive sockets (all 10mm shallow sockets from different brands)

AnonymousToolGuy · Jan 2, 2015

I'm giving Koken a shot. I've grown tired of my Cman made-in-USA sockets feeling so loose that I sometimes wonder if I selected 1mm too large. 3/8" Z-EAL metric standard set from Frankstools. 3/8" Z-EAL metric deep set direct from Japan. With the way the yen is vs. the dollar, direct from Japan should cost less than Frankstools even with the higher shipping cost.

I was deciding between Wright and Koken, and Koken seems to emphasize precision tolerances more so they win my money.

SawtoothJL · Jan 3, 2015

You won't be dissapointed, The tolerances on koken are super accurate - especially the zeal series

ImportTuner · Jan 3, 2015

Who sells Zeal tools in the US ..?

Ko-ken Tools -- What Makes this Brand Special !?!?

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