I got a set of wheels from MSC just the other day. I needed 7x1 wheels, so my choices were limited. Still, MSC carries CGW wheels and a decent selection of grits and types.
John
let's see your craftsman block grinders
- Thread starter emeraldcoupe
- Start date
I got a set of wheels from MSC just the other day. I needed 7x1 wheels, so my choices were limited. Still, MSC carries CGW wheels and a decent selection of grits and types.
John
torqueman2002
Well-known member
puphound - please contact me. Thanks.
scooternut
Well-known member
For certain. I dressed them and it helped quite a bit. Though I still cant seem to get them perfectly round. Guessing I need to work on my technique. And definitely, my course wheel is warped side to side pretty bad. That 7x1 wheel seems to be an odd size. The local stores only seem to carry 6x 1/2 or 3/4.
And suddenly, my grinder is hanging upon startup requiring a little help to get moving. Though I found my born on date, same year I was born, 1972.
The wheel side-to-side movement is largely controlled but the flange washers on the grinder. Sometimes it helps to spin the washers in relations to each other to get the week better aligned.
As for hanging on startup, it sounds like your capacitor may be failing.
McBrownie
Well-known member
Did some work on my 397.19670 3/4hp today. I got this one with no switch and also needed to do the bearings because it spun down forever and had a "click" sound when it was slowing down.
I used this switch:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/220906089541?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
and these bearings:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/301023144563?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
I also have done some work on painting the tin and eye shields, but I'll save that for another day. I'll probably paint the cast pieces in the spring when this "Polar Vortex" **** is long gone.
Here is another great use for the WorkMate. Spindles fit perfectly in the "dog holes" and it makes it easy to put the two halves back together. WorkMates and block grinders seem to go together.
View media item 45104
Onto the switch. I first got a single pole replacement, but it was not a good one and didn't have a good feel. So, I got the Cutler-Hammer NOS DPDT shown in the above link. In order to make full use of the double poles, I made a brass plate to "jump" both poles turning it into a hefty SPST. This switch is heavy duty and has a really nice "Click". You know when it is on or off. It is bigger than the stock switch at almost 2" long, but still fit just fine.
View media item 45105
Then I got some "chair connectors" like these, although I didn't get them from Summit. It took a while to figure out that they are called "chair connectors".
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/r...G6kUZ5cjKzP67zP4kO7spf6ntJCqF-3DZbBoCDLLw_wcB
I then turned them "inside out" to match the type that comes with block grinders. This configuration was necessary to get a good fit.
View media item 45106
More to come on this one. By the way, with the new bearings, the spin down time has dropped from 3 minutes to about 30 seconds, but it is silky smooth.
I used this switch:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/220906089541?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
and these bearings:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/301023144563?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
I also have done some work on painting the tin and eye shields, but I'll save that for another day. I'll probably paint the cast pieces in the spring when this "Polar Vortex" **** is long gone.
Here is another great use for the WorkMate. Spindles fit perfectly in the "dog holes" and it makes it easy to put the two halves back together. WorkMates and block grinders seem to go together.
View media item 45104
Onto the switch. I first got a single pole replacement, but it was not a good one and didn't have a good feel. So, I got the Cutler-Hammer NOS DPDT shown in the above link. In order to make full use of the double poles, I made a brass plate to "jump" both poles turning it into a hefty SPST. This switch is heavy duty and has a really nice "Click". You know when it is on or off. It is bigger than the stock switch at almost 2" long, but still fit just fine.
View media item 45105
Then I got some "chair connectors" like these, although I didn't get them from Summit. It took a while to figure out that they are called "chair connectors".
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/r...G6kUZ5cjKzP67zP4kO7spf6ntJCqF-3DZbBoCDLLw_wcB
I then turned them "inside out" to match the type that comes with block grinders. This configuration was necessary to get a good fit.
View media item 45106
More to come on this one. By the way, with the new bearings, the spin down time has dropped from 3 minutes to about 30 seconds, but it is silky smooth.
McBrownie
Well-known member
Question for the group. I've had a couple of tabs break off of the metal eye shields that hold the glass in. What are some good ways to hold in the glass when the tabs are gone?
torqueman2002
Well-known member
Brownie - great idea on the Workmate. I'll use that on the assembly of the 1/4 HP I just tore down. Maybe I can retire my arbor fixture. 
Take a look in the thread above for what the PO did to 'fix' the broken eye shield tabs with pop riveted tabs. I will do something similar to the Baldor eye shields - they use a machine screw/nut to hold a retaining tab. I'll see if I can locate a picture.
OK, found a picture; maybe you can make out the tab, and screw.
Good sources on replacement switch, and bearings. Also, this confirms that grinders with fresh bearings do not spin-down very long, owing to the 'drag' of the grease.
Take a look in the thread above for what the PO did to 'fix' the broken eye shield tabs with pop riveted tabs. I will do something similar to the Baldor eye shields - they use a machine screw/nut to hold a retaining tab. I'll see if I can locate a picture.
OK, found a picture; maybe you can make out the tab, and screw.
Good sources on replacement switch, and bearings. Also, this confirms that grinders with fresh bearings do not spin-down very long, owing to the 'drag' of the grease.
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Much slower spin-down time was my experience after switching out the bearings as well.
Good idea on fixing broken tabs. Thanks for the pic.
Good idea on fixing broken tabs. Thanks for the pic.
Brownie - great idea on the Workmate. I'll use that on the assembly of the 1/4 HP I just tore down. Maybe I can retire my arbor fixture.
Take a look in the thread above for what the PO did to 'fix' the broken eye shield tabs with pop riveted tabs. I will do something similar to the Baldor eye shields - they use a machine screw/nut to hold a retaining tab. I'll see if I can locate a picture.
OK, found a picture; maybe you can make out the tab, and screw.
Good sources on replacement switch, and bearings. Also, this confirms that grinders with fresh bearings do not spin-down very long, owing to the 'drag' of the grease.
Itinerant
Well-known member
I had the glass replaced in a pair of guards and the tabs broke off while removing the cracked glass, the glass company just set the new glass in a bead of clear silicone.
McBrownie
Well-known member
That is an idea. It's strong enough to hold aquariums together.
torqueman2002
Well-known member
I like that idea, too!
BTW - I was on my way to pick-up some ACDelco wall cabinets that Jc5205, a fellow member, offered. Thank you!
I was suddenly drawn by an irresistible, powerful, unseen force. You know, like a tractor beam.
The next thing I knew I found myself outside this building.
I know what you're thinking, that could be any truck outside any Baldor (Mother Ship) building.
OK, here's proof. A selfie! My first, by the way.
Pupuhd
Well-known member
I like that idea, too!
BTW - I was on my way to pick-up some ACDelco wall cabinets that Jc5205, a fellow member, offered. Thank you!
I was suddenly drawn by an irresistible, powerful, unseen force. You know, like a tractor beam.
The next thing I knew I found myself outside this building.
I know what you're thinking, that could be any truck outside any Baldor (Mother Ship) building.
OK, here's proof. A selfie! My first, by the way.
Well yooooou know. That could be any hat in front of any truck outside any Baldor building. You know what I mean.
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
torqueman2002
Well-known member
You mean I messed up my 1st selfie?
Just call me Wilson, I guess!
Just call me Wilson, I guess!
Pupuhd
Well-known member
sel·fie
ˈselfē/
noun informal
a photograph that one has taken of oneself, typically one taken with a smartphone or webcam and shared via social media.
"occasional selfies are acceptable, but posting a new picture of yourself everyday isn't necessary"
Hats don't count as selfies.
ˈselfē/
noun informal
a photograph that one has taken of oneself, typically one taken with a smartphone or webcam and shared via social media.
"occasional selfies are acceptable, but posting a new picture of yourself everyday isn't necessary"
Hats don't count as selfies.
Pupuhd
Well-known member
puphound - please contact me. Thanks.
Please check your PM inbox. thanks
drivesitfar
Well-known member
TM: i didn't know a Baldor store existed other than the factory so thanks for sharing. i believe that's you under the hat and better luck on the selfie next time.
Pup: i just bought a Monarch 223 a few weeks ago and just noticed you had a thread in your signature about one you bought and restored. i went to that thread and saw a few pictures of yours unrestored and then all the newer pictures were erased. any chance you can go back to your thread and put in some of the Monarch 223 pictures and let me know on this thread if you did?
by the way i'm sensing that there is a Craftsman block grinder going to arrive at your shop any day now.
Pup: i just bought a Monarch 223 a few weeks ago and just noticed you had a thread in your signature about one you bought and restored. i went to that thread and saw a few pictures of yours unrestored and then all the newer pictures were erased. any chance you can go back to your thread and put in some of the Monarch 223 pictures and let me know on this thread if you did?
by the way i'm sensing that there is a Craftsman block grinder going to arrive at your shop any day now.
torqueman2002
Well-known member
Pupuhd - thanks, and sorry for messing up your name.
torqueman2002
Well-known member
Want list updated.
Well I've got my 1/2 HP Commercial all done and mounted to an original Craftsman stand. Runs like a dream, my only problem is the stand wants to walk around due to the inertia of the wheels. I know the ideal solution is to bolt it to the ground, but putting anchors in concrete is not an option for me. Does anyone have any other non-permanent securing ideas? I saw a picture of the same setup on dollies and thought that would be convenient but it seems to be a step backwards in making it stationary when working.
Mine:
Someones on dollies:
Mine:
Someones on dollies:
torqueman2002
Well-known member
Well I've got my 1/2 HP Commercial all done and mounted to an original Craftsman stand. Runs like a dream, my only problem is the stand wants to walk around due to the inertia of the wheels. I know the ideal solution is to bolt it to the ground, but putting anchors in concrete is not an option for me. Does anyone have any other non-permanent securing ideas? I saw a picture of the same setup on dollies and thought that would be convenient but it seems to be a step backwards in making it stationary when working.
Mine:
Someones on dollies:
I put a couple of mine on floor mats.
Also, there are some guys making rubber feet for grinders and compressors out of hockey pucks.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4402367&postcount=53
Tyberius
Well-known member
I just put my foot on the stand.
I have an update about the old grinder. After some more research I am convinced it is a 115.19500.
I decided to do a test assembly since it came to me in pieces. Found the toggle switch was bad. Installed a new switch and started it with no wheels.
It growled for a second and slowly started to spin up. Did numerous starts, with various results. Sometimes it would growl and begin to spin backwards. Mounted a pair of wheels to increase load. It would growl and struggle to begin to spin up. With a little help it will spin up.
I saw no sign of burn or physical damage to the windings. What is the proper resistance test for the windings, especially the start windings.
Would the installation of a capacitor help? If so what capacitor?
Tore down and installed new bearings, very quite after spin up. If I can get the starting corrected it will get blasted and a new paint job, just don't know what color to use. Thinking Hunter green with copper band.
Thanks, Dave
I decided to do a test assembly since it came to me in pieces. Found the toggle switch was bad. Installed a new switch and started it with no wheels.
It growled for a second and slowly started to spin up. Did numerous starts, with various results. Sometimes it would growl and begin to spin backwards. Mounted a pair of wheels to increase load. It would growl and struggle to begin to spin up. With a little help it will spin up.
I saw no sign of burn or physical damage to the windings. What is the proper resistance test for the windings, especially the start windings.
Would the installation of a capacitor help? If so what capacitor?
Tore down and installed new bearings, very quite after spin up. If I can get the starting corrected it will get blasted and a new paint job, just don't know what color to use. Thinking Hunter green with copper band.
Thanks, Dave
I have a question about the glass shields too. I gently pryed up the metal tabs and some how didn't snap them off. I'm crossing my fingers on reinstallation.
Question:
I got the tabs pryed up but the glass isn't moving. There's black strips under each side which I assume are adhesive, or they're just rubber but after 50 years became adhesive.
I tried pushing, but I'm scared I'm going to shove my hand through the glass. I tried prying, but the screwdriver starter hitting the edge of the glass and I didn't want to crack it. I ran hot water over the thing for a few minutes hoping to free it up, but that didn't work. What next? Soak in acetone or mineral spirits to maybe dissolve the adhesive? Heat gun?
Question:
I got the tabs pryed up but the glass isn't moving. There's black strips under each side which I assume are adhesive, or they're just rubber but after 50 years became adhesive.
I tried pushing, but I'm scared I'm going to shove my hand through the glass. I tried prying, but the screwdriver starter hitting the edge of the glass and I didn't want to crack it. I ran hot water over the thing for a few minutes hoping to free it up, but that didn't work. What next? Soak in acetone or mineral spirits to maybe dissolve the adhesive? Heat gun?
Pupuhd
Well-known member
My recommendation is the heat gun. Start on Low setting and warm up the whole frame evenly. Then if it softens up gently pry lose.
"I see" said the blind man to the deaf man as he picked up his hammer and saw.
torqueman2002
Well-known member
Pupuhd, browntown - I have an old hair dryer I use if a heat gun is a little too much. Just a suggestion, don't know for sure.
The eye shields I worked on came apart easily, but those pads didn't survive. I remember using some flat, pliable plastic I had on hand. I think weather stripping or such should work to cushion the glass from vibrations.
I have another pair of eye shields to restore with those tabs. I've been wondering if heating them to cherry-red, then bending will work.
D3B Dave - I'm wondering if cleaning the start-up switch contacts will help. It sounds like the start-up winding is not energizing, the growing can be the EMF over coming the inertia. The job of the start winding (and capacitor for higher HP motors) is to provide an out of phase EMF until the rotor reaches about 2/3 final speed. One side affect of the start winding not being energized is it can run in reverse.
I'll make a couple of measurements and post them up. The resistance across the switch points, when removed from the circuit should be <0.2 Ohms. (actual measured of grinder in chart below is 0.00 Ohms).
Here are the measurements for a 1/4 HP m-397.19580. Note: all measurements are net. The resistance of the test leads is not included in the measurements.
More about the start switch.
When the grinder is first turned ON and until it reaches a calibrated speed (~2/3 max RPM) the contacts are Closed, energizing the start winding. With the switch removed from the grinder, an internal spring keeps the points Open.
When assembled, the centrifugal assembly on the rotor shaft presses against the start switch, overcoming the start sw spring, closing the contacts.
That is the condition of the assembly when the grinder is OFF, when the grinder starts, and until ~2/3 max RPM.
At this speed, the arms of the centrifugal assembly have spun out and pulled the sliding sleeve away from the start switch. The start switch Opens, de-energizing the start-up windings.
If the centrifugal assembly is stuck in the extended position, it can keep the start sw Open, not allowing the start winding to energize at start up, possibly producing symptoms like you are seeing.
If the centrifugal assembly does not move smoothly, the start sw will not Open, and the start winding will likely be damaged.
I have posted a detailed operation of this type of assembly. I will look for the link, and update this post.
Here it is. --> http://tinyurl.com/CM-115-19500-restore
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Pupuhd
Well-known member
Foam weather stripping is perfect for reinstall. They can be purchased at any hardware store & come in different thickness & width to suit your needs. That's what I used under the glass for my sandblast cabinet.
"I see" said the blind man to the deaf man as he picked up his hammer and saw.
jakemac
Well-known member
Be VERY careful if you use heat. Glass is sensitive to uneven heat, and can shatter. Make sure you heat the glass evenly and slowly if your going to try this.
pendragon1998
Well-known member
I just slid a razor blade carefully between the glass and frame and it loosened up enough to press gently out.
torqueman2002,
Found the problem, the contact switch was bent enough that it was not closing the points. I just tried a couple of test fits till it had a closed circuit setting still.
A slight bend was all it needed.
Assembled and tried it. The motor spun right up. Mounted the wheels and it still spun right up.
Now to decide on a paint scheme.
Thanks to everyone for the help,
Dave
Found the problem, the contact switch was bent enough that it was not closing the points. I just tried a couple of test fits till it had a closed circuit setting still.
A slight bend was all it needed.
Assembled and tried it. The motor spun right up. Mounted the wheels and it still spun right up.
Now to decide on a paint scheme.
Thanks to everyone for the help,
Dave
McBrownie
Well-known member
I second this method. Took my time and the glass came right out. Don't rush it, because the rubber stuff is sticky.
I didn't see the razor blade trick till after I did it, but a heat gun slowly heating everything evenly, they popped out in about 30 seconds. I then allowed them to air dry. For others, I would suggest the razor blade first, I was very scared with the heat gun, but if you're careful - it does work.
next resto question. One of the glass shields has lots of pin point pits in the glass. Is there a polish out there that can smooth them out, or should i just be happy the glass is intact and move on? I'll start with barkeepers friend cause that stuff works on everything.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Browntown: some of the guys just go get new ones if cracked or they are not clear any longer. as long as you have them out it might be worth the approximate $12 upgrade to look through new glass. your call
McBrownie
Well-known member
Drives, My glass is pitted on the wheel side and I was wondering about getting new. Do glass shops have laminated safety glass or is there something better nowadays?
drivesitfar
Well-known member
McB: I haven't bought any yet for my old grinders and still trying to get the shop set up. i do know Balane has bought some for his that he spiffed up and sold on Ebay so you might PM him if he doesn't see your post. i'd love to hear that answer so post it if you get an answer via PM.
Taper Adapter for Buffing Wheels - FOUND!
I have in my possession an inside threaded taper adapter for a 5/8" arbor. $18.55 + $9.16 shipping, total $27.71.
Stuller Jeweler Supplies
They carry both a right and left threaded adapater for 5/8" arbor, but nothing similar for a 1/2" arbor, at least as far as I can tell. As you can see from the pictures after I mounted it, it's a nice extension as well.
I have in my possession an inside threaded taper adapter for a 5/8" arbor. $18.55 + $9.16 shipping, total $27.71.
Stuller Jeweler Supplies
They carry both a right and left threaded adapater for 5/8" arbor, but nothing similar for a 1/2" arbor, at least as far as I can tell. As you can see from the pictures after I mounted it, it's a nice extension as well.
Attachments
Now that I have finally found a taper adapter, I need to get some buffing wheels and could benefit from the collective experience.
Center hole
I've found leather-center pinhold wheels on ebay, but I can only find them from one source, kiren on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-x-50-ply-LEATHER-center-PINHOLE-White-Stitched-COTTON-polishing-buffing-wheel-/360713213160?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53fc2ed4e8
BMN(Q~~60_57.JPG)
I've also read that one can use up to a 1/2" hole. They'll run up the spindle farther but otherwise work. Applying some krazy glue to the fibers around the hole will make it last a lot longer. Since there are a lot more wheels available at a lower price this would seem to be a preferable solution. Has anyone tried this?
Plies
kiren has a number of different ply counts from 40 to 70 plies. Is it a case of more plies are better?
Wheel types
I've seen loose, concentric, spiral, sisal and more types. Should I get one of each?
Compounds
I've got black (emery), brown (tripoli), red and white rouges. I'd like to try buffing out some scratches on cds and dvds. Do I need to have any other compounds on hand?
Center hole
I've found leather-center pinhold wheels on ebay, but I can only find them from one source, kiren on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-x-50-ply-LEATHER-center-PINHOLE-White-Stitched-COTTON-polishing-buffing-wheel-/360713213160?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53fc2ed4e8
I've also read that one can use up to a 1/2" hole. They'll run up the spindle farther but otherwise work. Applying some krazy glue to the fibers around the hole will make it last a lot longer. Since there are a lot more wheels available at a lower price this would seem to be a preferable solution. Has anyone tried this?
Plies
kiren has a number of different ply counts from 40 to 70 plies. Is it a case of more plies are better?
Wheel types
I've seen loose, concentric, spiral, sisal and more types. Should I get one of each?
Compounds
I've got black (emery), brown (tripoli), red and white rouges. I'd like to try buffing out some scratches on cds and dvds. Do I need to have any other compounds on hand?