ChevyEFI
Well-known member
martin666,
What's the o.d. of the sides of the Wright please?
What's the o.d. of the sides of the Wright please?
3/8 drive head in 1/4 ratchet body
- Thread starter ADSR
- Start date
martin666
Well-known member
ChevyEFI.....Wright ratchet head measures, 13/16" wide by approx, 3/8" deep not including selector, same as my Wright 1/4"
Kaervak
Well-known member
Well, I just bought a SK 3767 thanks to this thread. Going to be an expensive month. 
Well, I just bought a SK 3767 thanks to this thread. Going to be an expensive month.
This board has cost me a lot of money.
Welcome to the club
I took a look at Snap On's offerings because I have them and could measure them. But the data below comes straight from the new SO catalog. I suspect what we see here will loosely apply to other manufacturers' ratchets.
The standard 1/4" T72 ratchet is used to create the 3/8" drive FC72. This tool is 4-7/16" long. Its head is 15/16" wide and 7/16" deep.
The 3/8" stubby (FK80) is shorter by a 1/4". Its head is wider by 5/16", but the distance from the drive to the outer portion of the head is actually half that or 5/32 (.15"). It is deeper by only 1/8".
So the converted 1/4" ratchet saves .15 in head clearance, and about .125 in total depth.
I asked why a 1/4" socket couldn't be used instead. Why is a 3/8" socket needed? The answer given above (insufficient clearance) does not apply to Snap On sockets. 13mm 1/4" drive sockets have deeper broaches and more thread protrusion clearance than similarly sized 3/8" sockets.
Therefore:
If short is what you are after, at least Snap On's 3/8" stubbies are shorter than the converted 1/4" drive ratchets.
If shallow is what you need, the 1/4" ratchet buys you an additional 1/8" of clearance. While I can't imagine that making a huge difference, I leave open the possiblity that it could. One alternative is to buy a low profile ratchet. Snap On's RAF80 is the exact same depth as the 1/4" drive (T72) ratchet (7/16"). One advantage of these low pro ratchets (there are several on the market) is that they are stronger than 1/4" mechanisms.
The other alternative is to simply use 1/4" sockets. Snap On 1/4" sockets offer good engagement and thread clearance. Even the Snap On low profile sockets offer decent clearance. Unlike the Koken Zeal sockets, the SO sockets are designed for the special low height drive on the RAF80. This keeps the working end of the socket a little more generous (but forces you to use the special ratchet, which I don't love).
I'm not sure how head width plays a significant role in ratchets. I know it can, depending on where you are working. Extensions, wobbles, and swivel sockets can help, but there are times when a smaller head is easier to use. The difference isn't huge however. I would hesistate to buy a ratchet for this alone.
It seems to me there are several other reasonable alternatives to these converts. I wonder if these were more popular in the days before low height sockets, wobble extensions, and strong swivel sockets were readily available. While I'm not interested in talking anybody out of buying one of these or converting an older, less used 1/4" ratchet into something possibly more usable, this wouldn't be the first recommendation I would make to a mechanic looking to increase his efficiency in a crowded engine bay.
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
You know, this thread is about how to GET a 3/8 ratchet in a small head/Body, or what options there are; not about justifying the "need"
You need to do a little less data analysis, and a little more hands on... Let me guess; you are an engineer or accountant? (basing that guess on your posts here and the links in your sig...) While there is nothing wrong with looking at the data, It doesn't tell all, and you are making FAR too many assumptions... Many in this case are off.
I and many others have been more than categorical that these DO help or WOULD help... Spend a couple of bucks and get one in your hand, or don't. Again, if you have never had the need, then no, you will NEVER understand nor need one. So stop trying.
As far as telling me to go buy a set of SO sockets that in your opinion would do the job; really? Compare the cost of those different socket sets and the cost of a 3/8 ratchet in a 1/4" head. I can use my std. already owned sockets... But apparently you would spend the $$ on the sockets, but "can't justify the Ratchet"...
No, I'm not going to get caught up in debating this further with you. If you want to insist, then that would brand you a troll. I don't do trolls well and more than a few have got banned trying...
And no, I'm not busting your chops for being an engineer. I am one also. Stop calculating and get some tools dirty.
You need to do a little less data analysis, and a little more hands on... Let me guess; you are an engineer or accountant? (basing that guess on your posts here and the links in your sig...) While there is nothing wrong with looking at the data, It doesn't tell all, and you are making FAR too many assumptions... Many in this case are off.
I and many others have been more than categorical that these DO help or WOULD help... Spend a couple of bucks and get one in your hand, or don't. Again, if you have never had the need, then no, you will NEVER understand nor need one. So stop trying.
As far as telling me to go buy a set of SO sockets that in your opinion would do the job; really? Compare the cost of those different socket sets and the cost of a 3/8 ratchet in a 1/4" head. I can use my std. already owned sockets... But apparently you would spend the $$ on the sockets, but "can't justify the Ratchet"...
No, I'm not going to get caught up in debating this further with you. If you want to insist, then that would brand you a troll. I don't do trolls well and more than a few have got banned trying...
And no, I'm not busting your chops for being an engineer. I am one also. Stop calculating and get some tools dirty.
scooternut
Well-known member
Does this 3/8 kit fit in the 1/4 in body? I cant confirm this. I have 2 empty proto 1/4 rats needing a kit and would love this!
Hmmm, maybe Outlaw answered this for me already.
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
Make sure you have the RIGHT 1/4" from Proto - been there, done that...
scooternut
Well-known member
Uh oh, better wait an look into it a bit more. I believe that I have 3, one is working fine and 2 are empty waiting for something. The only thing I know now is that they are older.
Any input as to the "RIGHT" 1/4 in Proto for this. Seems I can get the kit you spoke of for about 15 on ebay.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
I don't remember the models No, but find my posts in this thread on my "oops" with having the wrong older ratchet, and the right model will be mentioned more than once.
shampoop
Well-known member
I have this one and really like it. Pretty positive I didn't pay $38 for it though. Probably closer to half of that i would think. EDIT: yep, bought it for $23 several years back.
Positives - Super smooth, super low drag, very thin head, knurled grip, very easy and simple to disassemble for cleaning/lubing, high quality tool, nice finish.
Negatives - Low tooth count, head is wide and tall
http://www.protoindustrial.com/en/industrial-tools/Proto/Drive-Tools-%26-Accessories/Ratchets/J5248S_Proto%C2%AE-3|8%22-Drive-Stubby-Classic-Pear-Head-Ratchet-5%22/
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001HW8Z9I/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Positives - Super smooth, super low drag, very thin head, knurled grip, very easy and simple to disassemble for cleaning/lubing, high quality tool, nice finish.
Negatives - Low tooth count, head is wide and tall
http://www.protoindustrial.com/en/industrial-tools/Proto/Drive-Tools-%26-Accessories/Ratchets/J5248S_Proto%C2%AE-3|8%22-Drive-Stubby-Classic-Pear-Head-Ratchet-5%22/
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001HW8Z9I/?tag=atomicindus08-20
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d.mcfarland
Well-known member
scooternut
Well-known member
OK, the kit from SO came in: No plate, so things get more difficult...
I know Proto generally ships a plate with there kits, if SO does it was either omitted, or was deliberately left off so you can't "upgrade" an older 1/4" ratchet...
To make it even more difficult, the hole needs to be about 5.031 or so. the 3/8" hex was .496 corner to corner, if they had gone with that the hole could have been .500...
I'm still OK, as I have 3 17/32 drill bits (.53125), but
FYI the back side hole (and the front of the 1/4" drive) was 3/8...
Now I just have to decide which one to do.. Probably the only chromed one.
I also took a look at the Proto and dang its a close cal there too, except the back hole is oversize; maybe a press fit bushing onto the drive gear?
As I could find, this was your last mention of the Proto, the rest of your posts here concerned the snap and or Williams. Just curious if you made one work in the Proto. Thanks
Outlawmws
Well-known member
You know what Scooter? I mis-remembered that set of posts. it WAS the SO I was trying (but I did also try the SO guts in the Proto, which is probably what crossed me up).
but I'd still make sure about the comparability before committing.
I've got an SK rebuild kit coming in for one of my SK 1/4's, hopefully this week.
but I'd still make sure about the comparability before committing.
I've got an SK rebuild kit coming in for one of my SK 1/4's, hopefully this week.
trever
Well-known member
So I put a radiator in a cat 16m today. Lots of tight spots and hose clamps. Used my williams 1/4 flex head with 3/8 drive alot. The combo of thin, long and flexible came in handy. I did need my stubby 3/8 SO ratchet for 2 bolts.
Sask dude
Well-known member
that one guy
Active member
Has anybody converted a Snap On TM830 1/4" ratchet to 3/8" drive successfully?
Kaervak
Well-known member
Well, I just bought a SK 3767 thanks to this thread. Going to be an expensive month.
And the SK 3767 arrived today. Oh dear oh dear, gonna have to buy a non flex version now too.
That's a stubby, not a compact.
Sask dude
Well-known member
Ahh my bad. I thought it was a small enough profile head to be considered a compact.
Still really like it
page 7 shows a pic of a stubby next to a compact.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Post 214 one page back does also.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
OK I finally got a LARGE package with a REALLY Small set of parts...
all that box (and packing to go with it) and all that was in there was this...
But the results are worth it! 1/4 SK vs 3/8 in a 1/4 SK Ratchet handle. Nice and small compared to even a stubby, much less std 3/8 for more difficult access. remember its not always about head size but just getting the tools and your hand in...Also, that SK is 60 TPR compared to 20 TPR for the older SO stubby...:
This is just ONE reason I wanted to get this setup. You can't do this with a 1/4" drive. and having ONE set of 3/8 sockets is less clutter to deal with whether you are under a car or in the engine bay, with a tray or cart of tools... Also, I can get by with one set of 3/8 for the road box doing it this way... the extra tiny ratchet is nothing in either weight or volume compared to another set of sockets.
Even with the smaller sockets, this describes what I had to deal with recently (completely inadequately, as it doesn't show all the under the hood clutter; wires, cables, brackets and components that scraped the skin off my arms; but you get the drift...), Its called access and clearance, and not having a socket flopping around on the tip of a flex extension.
Even the interior has more room, the broaching of a 1/4 drive interferes with getting just a little of the bolt tip inside the socket. And no, I don't want to have to jump to a 1/4 deep as that loses me the compactness, and again more sockets to sort through...
So lots of reasons to have a nice tight small head short handled ratchet instead of the std or stubby.
all that box (and packing to go with it) and all that was in there was this...
But the results are worth it! 1/4 SK vs 3/8 in a 1/4 SK Ratchet handle. Nice and small compared to even a stubby, much less std 3/8 for more difficult access. remember its not always about head size but just getting the tools and your hand in...Also, that SK is 60 TPR compared to 20 TPR for the older SO stubby...:
This is just ONE reason I wanted to get this setup. You can't do this with a 1/4" drive. and having ONE set of 3/8 sockets is less clutter to deal with whether you are under a car or in the engine bay, with a tray or cart of tools... Also, I can get by with one set of 3/8 for the road box doing it this way... the extra tiny ratchet is nothing in either weight or volume compared to another set of sockets.
Even with the smaller sockets, this describes what I had to deal with recently (completely inadequately, as it doesn't show all the under the hood clutter; wires, cables, brackets and components that scraped the skin off my arms; but you get the drift...), Its called access and clearance, and not having a socket flopping around on the tip of a flex extension.
Even the interior has more room, the broaching of a 1/4 drive interferes with getting just a little of the bolt tip inside the socket. And no, I don't want to have to jump to a 1/4 deep as that loses me the compactness, and again more sockets to sort through...
So lots of reasons to have a nice tight small head short handled ratchet instead of the std or stubby.
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ChevyEFI
Well-known member
That pear-head has a lot of girth.
Go SK round-heads!
Go SK round-heads!
I read the whole 12 pages trying to figure out whether i cared about this particular tool. Somewhere towards the end i remembered i own something that is semi relevant and cost me about 12 bucks.
It's a square drive adapter in a 13mm stubby gearwrench i already had. It's not especially narrow across the head, but it IS thin and short!
I bought the set of 4 at Northern Tool for around 12 bucks.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002VM7PBM/?tag=atomicindus08-20
It's a square drive adapter in a 13mm stubby gearwrench i already had. It's not especially narrow across the head, but it IS thin and short!
I bought the set of 4 at Northern Tool for around 12 bucks.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002VM7PBM/?tag=atomicindus08-20
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kythri
Well-known member
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-piece-square-drive-socket-caps-67011.html
http://www.craftsman.com/craftsman-3-pc-socket-cap-set/p-00943303000P
Couple those with the oh-so-horrible cap-stop GearWrench reversible? Hot.
http://www.craftsman.com/craftsman-3-pc-socket-cap-set/p-00943303000P
Couple those with the oh-so-horrible cap-stop GearWrench reversible? Hot.
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XxToolAholicxX
Well-known member
What is the Snap-On part number for this conversion kit? Does it come with a cover plate? I seen a kit on eBay for $19.95 its not packaged by Snap-On looks like the guy package them and he has like 75 of them for sale...
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I am a ToolAholic, Sometimes I regret it, Especially when the Toolman wont give me no credit
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I am a ToolAholic, Sometimes I regret it, Especially when the Toolman wont give me no credit
What is a cap-stop gearwrench? I guess the thing i would say about the Titan set is that it has features to actually hold the insert into the end of the wrench, and it includes another piece which is a 1/4" hex bit holder socket.
Just an idea. I actually havent used the things yet because i keep forgetting i own them.
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kythri
Well-known member
The cap-stop is a much-derided "feature" on reversible GearWrenches sold by Sears and a couple other outlets. It's part of the rotator ring that prevents the wrench from going over/past the fastener, or using the wrong side of it (using it upside down).
Reversible GearWrenches sold by auto parts stores don't have this feature.
Personally, I think it's incredibly useful, but I own both styles.
The Titan adapters wouldn't work with a cap-stop wrench, as they need to be inserted from the back side, so they couldn't get past the stop.
Does the Titan have a positive-retention in the wrench, or will it fall out if you turn it over?
Reversible GearWrenches sold by auto parts stores don't have this feature.
Personally, I think it's incredibly useful, but I own both styles.
The Titan adapters wouldn't work with a cap-stop wrench, as they need to be inserted from the back side, so they couldn't get past the stop.
Does the Titan have a positive-retention in the wrench, or will it fall out if you turn it over?
Outlawmws
Well-known member
That doesn't seem too useful other than for height, and if you have room for the ratchet wrench to begin with, why not just use it? Maybe for a road box with a std wrench, for a painfully slow but tight head room access, but I don't think I'll be going out of my way to get those...
Outlawmws
Well-known member
That part of the conversation started on page 2, post 27 and progressed from there. No, it does NOT include the plate but the plate can be ordered separately.
And it does NOT fit the older 1/4" SO ratchets
, so pay attention to model numbers.scooternut
Well-known member
Proto 3/8 in a 1/4, the definitive answer. I had an empty Proto 1/4 laying around for years and was dying to try this after reading this thread. Having a 2nd 1/4 or throwing it away just seemed wasteful.
$15 bucks and 2 days free Amazon Prime free shipping later for Proto ratchet rebuild kit #J6064RK, we now have a Proto 3/8 in a 1/4. My 1/4's are older, #4749, not sure if that is still a good 1/4 part no.
I really like this, thanks for the thread, the Proto's are so smooth despite the low tooth count.... Now if only they made a kit to make the selector work the "proper" way.
Pics are of Proto 3/8, craftsman stubby flex 3/8, proto 4749, and converted proto.
Note, the rebuild kit plate does not Identify "proto" or USA, that kind of bothers me. Not sure why.
$15 bucks and 2 days free Amazon Prime free shipping later for Proto ratchet rebuild kit #J6064RK, we now have a Proto 3/8 in a 1/4. My 1/4's are older, #4749, not sure if that is still a good 1/4 part no.
I really like this, thanks for the thread, the Proto's are so smooth despite the low tooth count.... Now if only they made a kit to make the selector work the "proper" way
.Pics are of Proto 3/8, craftsman stubby flex 3/8, proto 4749, and converted proto.
Note, the rebuild kit plate does not Identify "proto" or USA, that kind of bothers me. Not sure why.
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rockinacummins
Well-known member
So will the Williams 3/8 rebuild kit work in the new Williams 1/4 ratchet? I see you guys using the snap on kit but I would kinda just like to order the 3/8 kit and the 1/4 ratchet from toolsdelivered.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
I was just using he S-K I just built and posted a few posts ago, 
MUCH easier job!
And I just had SWMBO order that Proto kit. I'l keep that one in the road box in the rig...
MUCH easier job!
And I just had SWMBO order that Proto kit. I'l keep that one in the road box in the rig...
Williams doesn't offer a compact 3/8 kit to fit in the williams 1/4 ratchet. You have to order the SO kit for it.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Is that the Williams M-52EH series, or the 30011 that the SO 3/8 fits?
ihateminimumwage
Well-known member
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- Jan 26, 2012
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M-52 series. The 30011 is Taiwan Williams/Blue Point and doesn't work with the Snappy kit.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
OK, the Proto kit came in this AM (Sunday? 
- Barely over $12 shipped with Amazon prime)
Comparing the Proto to the SK round head:
Tooth count: SK 60 to 24
Head width: SK by .023 under an inch, vs. .033 over an inch for the Proto (.056 Diff)
OAL from center of the drive head: SK 3-7/8; Proto >4-1/2 (> 5/8)
Back of head to tip of drive: Proto .889; SK: 1.096 (.107)
Backdrag (B feel only I'd give it to the SK but just barely. Both got the same lube, so no diff there.
Overall I have to give it to the SK, unless I absolutely need that .107 head room.
Pics Comparing them:
I did use the SK a lot the past three days, and so did my son, getting to bell housing bolts and starter bolts on the Samurai. Break 'em loose, switch the socket to the baby SK, zip them out in half the time with less then half the effort, very low back drag, which is VERY nice.
The narrower head was very nice when against the starter body, the short handle cleared obstructions nicely, and the light weight reduced fatigue.
I want one of these with about a 10" handle, and a swivel head... Thinking about the Williams... (I have the SO kit but no ratchet..)
- Barely over $12 shipped with Amazon prime)Comparing the Proto to the SK round head:
Tooth count: SK 60 to 24
Head width: SK by .023 under an inch, vs. .033 over an inch for the Proto (.056 Diff)
OAL from center of the drive head: SK 3-7/8; Proto >4-1/2 (> 5/8)
Back of head to tip of drive: Proto .889; SK: 1.096 (.107)
Backdrag (B feel only I'd give it to the SK but just barely. Both got the same lube, so no diff there.
Overall I have to give it to the SK, unless I absolutely need that .107 head room.
Pics Comparing them:
I did use the SK a lot the past three days, and so did my son, getting to bell housing bolts and starter bolts on the Samurai. Break 'em loose, switch the socket to the baby SK, zip them out in half the time with less then half the effort, very low back drag, which is VERY nice.
The narrower head was very nice when against the starter body, the short handle cleared obstructions nicely, and the light weight reduced fatigue.
I want one of these with about a 10" handle, and a swivel head... Thinking about the Williams... (I have the SO kit but no ratchet..)
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