FYI regarding koken tools and warranty.

khuebner250 · Nov 15, 2016

I broke 2 koken tools a couple of weeks ago. Contacted koken USA by email with an explanation and pictures on broken tools and part numbers. I had to re email them to try to get some resolution when I didn't hear back. I was denied any warranty as the tools where purchased from. Itools in Japan and not from toolpan. As per koken usa, Koken doesn't offer a lifetime warranty on their tools. Anyway, a bit disappointed as I really like their tools. Just thought I'd give everyone a heads up.

Thanks
Keith

ChevyEFI · Nov 15, 2016

Warranty is an add-on feature intended to increase the price.

Out of curiosity, how many years did each last? The socket looks rough.

khuebner250 · Nov 15, 2016

Both are less than a year old. I bought them March of 2016, so 8 months. Both broke on a Cummins front end. Rusty caliper bolt, that's why it looks so bad.

General Geoff · Nov 15, 2016

Cracking a 3/8" extension in half like that would require so much torque, I can't help but wonder if a 1/2" drive extension and socket would have worked a lot better. :dunno:

Sorry to hear about your experience, I've always gotten prompt replies to email inquiries from Koken USA. Haven't broken anything from them yet, though I do order my stuff from Frank's Tools which is an authorized store so if anything should break from a defect, I should have recourse.

TigerDude · Nov 15, 2016

I think there's a thing about the Japanese that they don't expect to abuse tools like we do in the states (I have not yet found a shovel I couldn't ruin). They use phrases like "use the correct force necessary to remove the nut and ensure proper operation of the tool."

I agree that lifetime warranty is just something baked in to the cost, and it likely isn't as much a problem in Japan.

M6erfan · Nov 15, 2016

Bummer.

A few weeks ago I had an email back and forth with Koken USA regarding buying their tools in the USA and warranty support. Seemingly they are content with the current set up. The thing that gets me is that there is little if any stock kept stateside, it seems that most everything is ordered and drop shipped from Japan. So, to me, there is no real advantage in buying from Frank's, Toolpan, etc. vs. Rakuten or other Japanese websites. However, this warranty issue points to one advantage...

On a side note, I see that Levelchrome has been dropped from Koken USA's "where to buy" list. And the Levelchrome website has been down for over a week...

khuebner250 · Nov 15, 2016

Like I said, I like the tools that I have of thiers. But I use them for a living and can't afford the down time. I didn't realize that koken didn't warranty there products or I would have looked elsewhere. So I guess these will get replaced with a tool truck brand. Shame really.
Keith

sk farmer · Nov 15, 2016

i really don't see the appeal of koken when there are so many other brands with better/more customer support and comparable or better quality.

M6erfan · Nov 16, 2016

sk farmer said:
i really don't see the appeal of koken when there are so many other brands with better/more customer support and comparable or better quality.

For comparable or lower price?

Warranty aside, IMO, Koken offers fit, finish, and durability that's up there with the best. For a price that's a fraction of the tool truck brands.

Koken is far above "mid tier" brands like gearwrench etc.

I'm just a home gamer and as such I feel that many of the Japanese brands offer exceptional value. Though, If I were a working pro I'd probably get more of the tool truck stuff because of the warranty/service.

That said, I've never broken any hand tool. I've worn some out, and they get replaced, on my dime. Also, I have enough redundancy that the broken tools that the OP showed wouldn't have slowed me down at all...

All that said, I do believe Koken would be wise to work out their USA distribution and warranty. They'd be a force to be reckoned with IMO.

:beer:

B_Bimmer · Nov 16, 2016

Never had much interest, but definitely have less now, thanks for sharing.

Skin · Nov 16, 2016

khuebner250 said:
But I use them for a living and can't afford the down time.

Doesn't jive. If you cant afford the downtime you don't buy something you'd have to warranty online/through mail anyway.

Rest of the world is like this with tools. Only in America can we destroy things or wear them out with decades of use and get free replacements. Makes us feel entitled and many of us are spoiled by it. I don't think there is anything wrong with buying based off quality instead of buying primarily for a lifetime of freebies. Its not like Koken is exorbitantly priced either.

davethorik · Nov 16, 2016

Their stuff does look top notch but i really don't see an advantage over USA offerings (not necessarily truck brand but SK, Wright, Proto). Their ratchets are just old Proto pear head copies, don't really see an advantage there at all to be honest.

gbh · Nov 16, 2016

M6erfan said:
For comparable or lower price?

Warranty aside, IMO, Koken offers fit, finish, and durability that's up there with the best. For a price that's a fraction of the tool truck brands.

Koken is far above "mid tier" brands like gearwrench etc.

All that said, I do believe Koken would be wise to work out their USA distribution and warranty. They'd be a force to be reckoned with IMO.

I agree.

Schurkey · Nov 16, 2016

khuebner250 said:
I broke 2 koken tools a couple of weeks ago. Contacted koken USA by email with an explanation and pictures on broken tools and part numbers. I had to re email them to try to get some resolution when I didn't hear back. I was denied any warranty as the tools where purchased from. Itools in Japan and not from toolpan. As per koken usa, Koken doesn't offer a lifetime warranty on their tools. Anyway, a bit disappointed as I really like their tools. Just thought I'd give everyone a heads up.

Thanks
Keith

Thanks for the heads-up. I can cross Koken off my list of potential tool purchases.

M6erfan · Nov 16, 2016

davethorik said:
Their stuff does look top notch but i really don't see an advantage over USA offerings (not necessarily truck brand but SK, Wright, Proto). Their ratchets are just old Proto pear head copies, don't really see an advantage there at all to be honest.

I've had socket sets from all three and returned 2...

The Wright 1/4" metric set I got a few years ago had ball detents missing from about half the sockets. Returned them.

The SK socket set I got last year was miserable. Off center broaching, shallow almost non existent detents, crappy chrome. All said, defects in about 40% of the sockets. Returned.

If the old Proto ratchets are like the KoKen's, they should bring them back. The Koken 3/8" flex head I recently got has the lightest backdrag if any ratchet I've ever owned.

Im not beating up on these guys, just pointing out facts. Another fact is, the returns were no problem with either of the above manufacturers.

So far, I've been extremely happy with KoKen's products.

Olafur · Nov 16, 2016

Judging by the part number on the extension and the pics this is wobble-fix extension.
Koken tool catalog:
http://www.koken-tool.co.jp/catalog/en/#page=69

The Wobbe-Fix Extenson Bar has less strength than normal extension bar due to it's specific design with a reduced square drive. Make sure to use it correctly.

Actually they have considerably smaller shank than regular extensions and you can easily feel them flex under load. I guess thats the point to avoid breaking the wobble square drive off. In any case they are about the last tool I would use to fight a stuck bolt.

So basically this is no evidence about Koken lack of quality or strength in general. Just their oddball wobble-fix extensions. While fantastic for some jobs they are not very strong.

JonnyMac · Nov 16, 2016

They are very highly regarded here in Oz. Ive got a few items, the 1/4 drive hex sockets are amongst the best made tools ive used period... lots of support here..

General Geoff · Nov 16, 2016

I don't see it as any different from Snap-On declining to warranty a socket or extension purchased on eBay. :shrug:

T45 · Nov 16, 2016

Once you get over 100 foot pounds you should be using 1/2 drive toos--especially with extensions as they are much stiffer.

Best warranty victory is a battle never fought.

Not sure this really changes why anyone would buy Koken tools or not. They are already obscure and have limites sales/support in the USA. Decent stuff from looks of it tho.

M6erfan · Nov 16, 2016

BTW, a recent Ko-Ken USA warranty experience (very positive) from another GJ'er...

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=319245

Edit: I dug up the email I had from Koken a few weeks ago, here is their response regarding warranty replacements...

"We do honor warrantees but we like to have the tools sent back to examine why they broke and give advice for handling. We typically have our seller send us their returns and honor the warrantees on a case by case basis."

Sounds reasonable to me...

-

B_Bimmer · Nov 16, 2016

I deem M6erfan a rabid koken fan.

scooz14 · Nov 16, 2016

a chrome 12pt socket on a rusted caliper bolt?!? and im assuming a pretty big breaker bar or and impact.

should have had an impact 6pt on it.

i find tools only break when they are misused.

khuebner250 · Nov 16, 2016

Skin said:
Doesn't jive. If you cant afford the downtime you don't buy something you'd have to warranty online/through mail anyway.

Actually that's why I filled this particular need with koken. I bought their wobble fixed extensions thinking "when was the last time I broke an extension, never". And 12 point semi deep chrome sockets. I rarely use them maybe for intake, header and specialty fasteners. This was the 5/8 first use on a Cummins caliper/hub bolt.

tonyciambrone · Nov 16, 2016

I have tried to turn many seized fasteners and have yet to break a hand tool this way.

I highly doubt you broke these items without a cheater pipe, impact or a 1/2 tool driving 3/8 stuff.

M6erfan · Nov 16, 2016

B_Bimmer said:
I deem M6erfan a rabid koken fan.

True, a fan for sure. Rabid no, id be the first to criticize if there were a reason. Like I said I've been very happy with Koken so far.

I use Ko-Ken, Snap-On, and older Craftsman USA sockets. Like them all...

rice rocket · Nov 16, 2016

I have a few Koken socket sets, they're very nice. Once you examine them up close, you'd understand.

I'd challenge you to find something of equal fit and finish, they're really a step above anything made here, and 1/3 to 1/4 the price of truck tools. At price parity with SK, Craftsman, etc., I'd pick the Koken every time. Durability may not be enough for some ham fisted 'mericans though.

Koken also is the OEM for several companies' impact sockets.

All tools break, buying truck tools means you're pre-paying your second/third/fourth set at time of purchase. Or take the savings to the bank, and buy replacements as needed. Just my opinion.

khuebner250 · Nov 16, 2016

tonyciambrone said:
I have tried to turn many seized fasteners and have yet to break a hand tool this way.

I highly doubt you broke these items without a cheater pipe, impact or a 1/2 tool driving 3/8 stuff.

No impacts or cheaters used. Just an extra long 3/8 ratchet.

Ive done the same thing on 2 10mm SK sockets. 3/8 drive chrome, short and deep, just a ratchet used.

khuebner250 · Nov 16, 2016

Also the koken socket and extension weren't connected when they broke. Broke the socket first then the extension. Either way I wasnt denied warranty due to abuse. Koken Japan doesn't have a warranty.

Infinia · Nov 16, 2016

khuebner250 said:
No impacts or cheaters used. Just an extra long 3/8 ratchet.

Ive done the same thing on 2 10mm SK sockets. 3/8 drive chrome, short and deep, just a ratchet used.

extraordinary skills require extra ordinary tools :bowdown:

I can see one metal defect from Koken, but two from different forgings from the same 'tester' well what's the chances for that?

M6erfan · Nov 16, 2016

M6erfan said:
BTW, a recent Ko-Ken USA warranty experience (very positive) from another GJ'er...

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=319245

khuebner250 said:
Also the koken socket and extension weren't connected when they broke. Broke the socket first then the extension. Either way I wasnt denied warranty due to abuse. Koken Japan doesn't have a warranty.

They do honor warranty, you must have missed post #20. I copied it again here for you...

Apparently you need to buy through a reseller listed on the Koken USA site for valid warranty, not Rakuten

FYI regarding koken tools and warranty.

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