jwsia
Well-known member
That's what I thought too. In the past if I was not able to be here I could pick it up in town
Harbor Freight 3 Ton Daytona Jack Versus Snap On FJ300 Jack
- Thread starter Nitsua98
- Start date
SMKS
Well-known member
Did you call FedEx or whoever is delivering it? UPS did that to me once. I called UPS and got it straightened out and they delivered it.
jwsia
Well-known member
Just got off the phone with FedEx. They stated that the seller requested that it be returned.....and they stated the seller was Harbor Freight, not any eBay seller.
guy48065
Well-known member
FedEx doesn't know who the seller is. The Shipper (HF warehouse) recalled the jack.
Same thing happened to me on my 2nd try. HF and FedEx wouldn't give me any reason BC I wasn't the person who arranged for shipping (the seller).
***** dealing through middle men. Especially after eBay deletes their account.
Same thing happened to me on my 2nd try. HF and FedEx wouldn't give me any reason BC I wasn't the person who arranged for shipping (the seller).
***** dealing through middle men. Especially after eBay deletes their account.
I really hope you get your jack, but UPS SurePost has a weight limit of 70lbs.
https://www.ups.com/worldshiphelp/W..._Weight_Limits_for_UPS_SurePost_Shipments.htm
The Daytona jack weighs 104 lbs, 112lbs shipping weight.
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-ton-daytona-professional-steel-floor-jack-super-duty-63183.html
fwiw: First off,a few yrs back UPS delivered my 100+ lbs Hein Werner HW93642 "True Blue' floor jack so it depends on how it's shipped? That 70 lbs was just ignored by all...
Driver backed right into my home driveway and set it on the back of my truck's tailgate for me. Thanks guys!!
Thetoolwarehouse.net sold them & using "free shipping" came in 2 packages, the jack was in a box (no skid) the handle in another box.
Understand, that was 3 yrs ago now & when they were still made in USA, not just assembled here like now. It was under $300 to my door with their discount coupon.
It's just been a fantastic floor jack too I might add so
to all who built it. Peace
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Fleabay must be where HF is unloading blems & returned /reman units from its 90 day trial offers. That separates them as not to affect store sales? Can't set skids of returns next to brand new products? 
Reading "Facts" starting on page (2) Snap-on states HF jacks failed while testing so it's not just the looks of it like posted earlier. I only made it halfway through guys then skimmed through posts so bare with me..lol Getting long, I'm sick (flu) and it's late..
Failed Testing--Facts
https://search.rpxcorp.com/litigation_documents/12222627
Peace!
Reading "Facts" starting on page (2) Snap-on states HF jacks failed while testing so it's not just the looks of it like posted earlier. I only made it halfway through guys then skimmed through posts so bare with me..lol Getting long, I'm sick (flu) and it's late..
Failed Testing--Facts
https://search.rpxcorp.com/litigation_documents/12222627
Peace!
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fwiw: First off,a few yrs back UPS delivered my 100+ lbs Hein Werner HW93642 "True Blue' floor jack so it depends on how it's shipped? That 70 lbs was just ignored by all...
Driver backed right into my home driveway and set it on the back of my truck's tailgate for me. Thanks guys!!
Peace
UPS Surepost is a service where UPS takes it to your nearby Post Office, and the mail carrier performs final delivery. This is limited to 70 pounds.
UPS Ground delivers up to 150 pounds. The prices climb at a much faster rate once you go over 75lbs.
Art From De Leon
Well-known member
Personally, I hope Snap-on cleans Harbor Freight's clock in this matter.
Then they can go after them for their duplication of the shape of the head and handle of their copies of the Snap on ratchets, since this would also be an infringement on the 'recognition' and established reputation of Snap on products.
It would appear that Mr. HiBalls' disassembly and report on the inner workings of the Daytona jack confirmed what Snap on alleges in their suit.
Hopefully, Snap on patented the shape of its "Instinct" screwdriver handles to prevent the imitators of their famous four sided black handle, from repeating that scam.
Then they can go after them for their duplication of the shape of the head and handle of their copies of the Snap on ratchets, since this would also be an infringement on the 'recognition' and established reputation of Snap on products.
It would appear that Mr. HiBalls' disassembly and report on the inner workings of the Daytona jack confirmed what Snap on alleges in their suit.
Hopefully, Snap on patented the shape of its "Instinct" screwdriver handles to prevent the imitators of their famous four sided black handle, from repeating that scam.
redsand187
Well-known member
Fleabay must be where HF is unloading blems & returned /reman units from its 90 day trial offers. That separates them as not to affect store sales? Can't set skids of returns next to brand new products?
HF uses a lot of temp workers in their two distribution centers. They also have a super antiquated inventory and ordering system.
It would not surprise me if someone was smart enough to figure out how to manipulate the system. They figure out how to get HF to submit orders into the system that look paid, or had manipulated coupons/gift codes and just drop ship directly out of the distribution centers.
Post up ads on eBay, payment comes in, submit order with customer's info and it goes out. Maybe their internal LP actually caught on and that's how jwsia's got called back.
WWheeler
Well-known member
Fleabay must be where HF is unloading blems & returned /reman units from its 90 day trial offers. That separates them as not to affect store sales? Can't set skids of returns next to brand new products?
[snip]
That's sort of what I though at first, and I bought mine that way with that assumption in mind, but after watching what's been happening with these sales, the reasons why ebay keeps cancelling the transactions and the accounts associated with them ("an unauthorized third party may have accessed the seller’s account to list this item"), and the frequency of which Harbor Freight has been able to stop the shipment and have it returned to them it's been pretty much determined through much discussion here in this thread that someone is almost surely using a collection of hacked ebay accounts to launder proceeds from a database of stolen credit card data. Harbor Freight is stopping shipment whenever they can presumably whenever they find out in time that the payment method was fraudulent before the delivery to the customer has been made.
I really didn't want to think that's what's been going on, but it almost surely is or something very close to it. I sure wish I had known all that before bringing up the crazy sales on ebay to this thread. I'm torn between being glad I and a few others managed to get a great deal on a pretty decent jack for the price (that are not "blems & returned /reman units from its 90 day trial offers", but brand spanking new jacks) and the feeling we were unwittingly duped into being part of some kind of scam.
In hindsight I wish I would have gotten my jack through Harbor Freight with the $20 off coupon good all month. My local store doesn't stock it but HF's delivery fee is only $7. At least then I'd have peace of mind not to mention the 3 year warranty to go with it.
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Burgerkong
Well-known member
Fleabay must be where HF is unloading blems & returned /reman units from its 90 day trial offers. That separates them as not to affect store sales? Can't set skids of returns next to brand new products?
Reading "Facts" starting on page (2) Snap-on states HF jacks failed while testing so it's not just the looks of it like posted earlier. I only made it halfway through guys then skimmed through posts so bare with me..lol Getting long, I'm sick (flu) and it's late..
Failed Testing--Facts
https://search.rpxcorp.com/litigation_documents/12222627
Peace!
I don't have access to any of the exhibits, but were the jacks independently tested? And was the SO tested alongside the HF? If not, I can't see how they can claim that.....
warmpancakes
Well-known member
Mine shows out for delivery, 88.99 including shipping
paid 11/8
shipped 11/15
supposed to be delivered today
paid 11/8
shipped 11/15
supposed to be delivered today
FigureItOut
Well-known member
Mine arrived yesterday and was ordered before it became abundantly clear in this thread what was happening, and the same for most of the orders you're referring to.
I'll admit, it wasn't the most morally upright thing to do given that there certainly were signs it wasn't legitimate. $100 savings blinded me a bit. I think the guys who ordered these are probably guys who would turn in found money, return the extra if given too much change at a store etc.
I'm not going to make any excuses, but I think under the circumstances, the buyers of these jacks have acted under good faith, guilty possibly of subconsciously ignoring the signs.
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twostall2007
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I feel like we have been trolled by the OP for Snap On to use in their lawsuit. We know that this thread has been / is currently being used as evidence in their lawsuit claiming that consumers are confused about differences between the jacks and patent infringement. I read the lawsuit and they are claiming the Daytona jack also was failing prematurely. Snap On said that they got 2 Daytona jacks to fail around 300 lifts, but didn't provide testing of their own jack to compare the same tests. I am unsure how the internals of their jacks could be so different that they are claiming it will last 16x as many lifts as the Daytona jack, per the lawsuit. Either there are enough differences that there isn't an infringement. IE lift pump parts. Or, there isn't enough difference and there is more of a patent issue. It doesn't seem that Snap On agrees that lift design and parts are of equal quality, so they are including their own testing to prove their point that there is a significant difference between the two. Since they think there is a significant difference, then the only issue seems to be legally, do they look enough like each other to cause confusion? (They very well could be produced by the same importer with similar quality and materials, and then Snap On should not be referencing quality testing differences between the two claiming Snap On superiority) You can't have it both ways, in my opinion.
I disagree with their methods of testing, and I disagree with using this forum as a catalyst to create evidence for any lawsuit.
I disagree with their methods of testing, and I disagree with using this forum as a catalyst to create evidence for any lawsuit.
guy48065
Well-known member
An interesting complaint--and very different from the one referenced way earlier in this thread. SO is suing for breach of their design patent which IMO has little merit. All floor jacks in this class "look like" each other and there ARE differences between the SO & HF jacks. There is more language in the complaint about performance differences that differentiate the 2 jacks--claiming that testing shows the HF jack fails miserably. This makes for a good case of false advertising but has nothing to do with the design patent infringement.
I still feel SO is ******* up a rope with this, will lose, and very few people who shop at HF will ever know about the actual difference.
Does it lift the side of my truck? Yep. Do I need it to repeat that 5000 times? Nope.
Art From De Leon
Well-known member
I think at some point you will see the Harbor Freight jacks being sold by "outside sources', after being repainted Snap on red, and decaled with ripped off versions of the Snap on logo, for "deeply discounted" Snap on prices.
As I have said, those who clone reputable, high quality products in hopes of benefiting from the similarity, should suffer the consequences.
I think that it would be easy to find in favor of Snap on, simply because of prior rulings on the importation and sale of other counterfeit goods.
As I have said, those who clone reputable, high quality products in hopes of benefiting from the similarity, should suffer the consequences.
I think that it would be easy to find in favor of Snap on, simply because of prior rulings on the importation and sale of other counterfeit goods.
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twostall2007
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My understanding of counterfeit goods would be that HF would have to import these and sell with a Snap On name themselves. Similar to companies directly producing an Apple phone or some other product with the original producing company's name.
HF is selling a product that they are purchasing from an importer and branding and selling it under their own name. Any actual counterfeit lawsuit would require an individual to purchase, disassemble, paint, add SO decals, and then try to repackage and sell. That takes a lot of work for this to actually be considered counterfeit.
I don't disagree that there may be some grey area to the actual look of these two side by side. Those similarities and differences have been pointed out. Snap On themselves state the internals are different, and they did their own tests to "prove" it.
So the case rests on how much can a floor jack actually vary by design, and how much of that is able to be considered the property of solely one company? The Napa jacks look similar enough. Is there a lawsuit against them? Probably not, because Napa isn't saying in an ad they they are comparable. We do know that few manufacturers actually produce jacks. Did the manufacturer potentially do something wrong by making some changes to the design and sell them to HF?
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Ok sorry' now that makes more sense, it was late, I was sick & tired...lol Literally!!
Didn't know limits were different but I sure hate that smartpost idea anyway. Besides us having post office issues for wrong address deliveries for decades anyway it just delays my shipment by about 2-3 days every time at min. So I try to avoid it but some items are only shipped that way.
Except for them making more loot I'm still not sure why most floor jacks are sent out on skids costing buyers so much more when it don't have to be.
Virtually every company put the Hein Werner 2-3 tons on a skid when I ordered but it may be more of a HW thing, idk but it sure costs?
Thanks for clarifying...I try to read most everything but I only made it about 1/2 way through this thread then skimmed...
Peace
Yuuup' it will surely happen..I see older used rebadged China made SO jack's selling for $300 there anyway as people see the stickers. Shinnfu sells them in black for half the price brand new...Amazing!!
Maybe I missed something but If what SO is saying is really true that HF simply copied their design I'd say what they are truly saying is it's the same jack. Hopefully someone here shows us what's inside a SO soon. (If I missed it, sorry.)
As mentioned, SO did not show evidence that their jack tested soooo much better so now maybe HF will need to show SO can't but we'll see? There needs to be side by side testing imo as well.
It could very well be neither jack performs even close to what's been advertised in this day and age built with China parts as we all know China's quality control ain't never been ****, just more like chits?
Hit & miss on all those China parts in one like HIBALL says which everyone seems to agree on this unless it has a SO sticker then it's all ti^^ies and ice cream, wth?
Peace
THE Daytona looks not that like the snap on, when you actually compare them side by side.
The problem for HF (and snap on) is that the parts diagram looks exactly the same.
But that's the rub--trade dress doesn't stop you from mimic-ing a basic design. Its stops you from making tools that could reasonably be confused.
Nobody is going to confuse the snap on and the Hf unless they are reading this thread.
And this thread looks more and more like a false flag started by a troll or a snap-on lawyer.
Not the OP has a 3 post history and this thread is 20 pages.
This thread appears to have been started specifically to provide evidence in a legal proceeding.
Its almost feeling like a false pretense.
(The ebay stuff is just the icing on the cake for lack of self awareness.)
The problem for HF (and snap on) is that the parts diagram looks exactly the same.
But that's the rub--trade dress doesn't stop you from mimic-ing a basic design. Its stops you from making tools that could reasonably be confused.
Nobody is going to confuse the snap on and the Hf unless they are reading this thread.
And this thread looks more and more like a false flag started by a troll or a snap-on lawyer.
Not the OP has a 3 post history and this thread is 20 pages.
This thread appears to have been started specifically to provide evidence in a legal proceeding.
Its almost feeling like a false pretense.
(The ebay stuff is just the icing on the cake for lack of self awareness.)
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twostall2007
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I agree. The OP started this thread and contributed nothing since, but they did not walk away. Clicking on their public profile, it shows: Last Activity: Today 01:15 PM
I hope that the comments about starting this thread specifically to advance this lawsuit are included in the exhibits shown to the judge. I wouldn't consider that admissible evidence when it is planted by the plaintiff. (But I actually have no idea. I just don't feel like that is ethical behavior. I also don't feel like each of us should be used as pawns in this game. )
I assume Snap On is going to stop their evidence prior to those discussions, so I encourage HF to include those as additional evidence.
Another thing I want to note about an excerpt from the lawsuit below. It states that "at least two" jacks were tested and found early jack failures. Exactly how many jacks did they have to test to find the two that failed early? It said none of the jacks met 5,000 lift cycles. Ok, I believe that. If you test 100 jacks and 2 failed that early, that isn't a surprise. A failure could be too much air in the system and it needs to be purged, but I don't see that they are trying to provide much in the way of details of these "tests". If they said that they only tested two jacks and they failed at those intervals, that would be powerful. They said at least two, and out of all of them they tested, not a single one made it to 5000 lifts. Just confusing legal terms...
18.
Snap-on conducted lift cycle testing on at least two different Harbor Freight
Jacks. (See Exhibit J and K). None of the Harbor Freight Jacks met the 5,000 lift cycles Harbor
Freight represented and promoted. Rather, the tested jacks failed at 296 and 329 lift cycles,
respectively.
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Art From De Leon
Well-known member
If Snap on means chevron type seals when they say Premium U-cup seals, there is no reason to believe that that type of seal would not last the 5000 cycles.
Loader cylinders seem to exclusively use chevron type packing, and our high pressure pumps with 15-20K Working pressure use them, and will pump clean fluids for many, many hours, continuously without leakage in volumes measuring barrels per minute.
Loader cylinders seem to exclusively use chevron type packing, and our high pressure pumps with 15-20K Working pressure use them, and will pump clean fluids for many, many hours, continuously without leakage in volumes measuring barrels per minute.
miguelvldz
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FigureItOut
Well-known member
That's funny, my driver was jazzed about it. He came in the garage, sat down and chatted with me while I opened it. I hope I was his last stop of the day, ha ha.
Mine just arrived. The driver looked pretty upset walking off. Must of been pretty heavy lol
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miguelvldz
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B_Bimmer
Well-known member
If snap on started this thread they successfully sold many jacks for harbor fright... I would not have bought one without it.
I love that this thread is still on the first page when I check back. Either way shits being lifted.VinceG
Well-known member
You guys have to realize that what you are posting is on a public forum. Think about what we know or have very strong evidence to believe is true:
1. This thread was started by Snap-On's attorneys.
2. This thread is already on file in a Federal lawsuit and is a public record
3. Harbor Freight's lawyers see this thread and will read it all
4. Harbor Freight is being defrauded by ebay scammers
5. Everyone on this thread knows that the $88 ebay Daytona jacks are being bought with stolen credit cards
6. People are still posting that they know all this and are willing parties to fraud and are still trying to do business with a scammer who hasn't been caught yet
I'm fairly certain that buying goods you know to be stolen is a criminal issue. This thread is part of a Federal court records. Lawyers are combing through it. I mean this really ought to be in the WTF or Darwin threads. Quit buying stolen goods and quit publicly talking about it. It is not going to surprise me one bit when you start getting letters from Harbor Freight's attorneys wanting the $199 for the jacks you got off of ebay.
1. This thread was started by Snap-On's attorneys.
2. This thread is already on file in a Federal lawsuit and is a public record
3. Harbor Freight's lawyers see this thread and will read it all
4. Harbor Freight is being defrauded by ebay scammers
5. Everyone on this thread knows that the $88 ebay Daytona jacks are being bought with stolen credit cards
6. People are still posting that they know all this and are willing parties to fraud and are still trying to do business with a scammer who hasn't been caught yet
I'm fairly certain that buying goods you know to be stolen is a criminal issue. This thread is part of a Federal court records. Lawyers are combing through it. I mean this really ought to be in the WTF or Darwin threads. Quit buying stolen goods and quit publicly talking about it. It is not going to surprise me one bit when you start getting letters from Harbor Freight's attorneys wanting the $199 for the jacks you got off of ebay.
LB-1911
ALLIANCE MEMBER
^ + It is also great fodder for various psychology classes.
This might be a stretch -
This thread was started by Snap-On's attorneys.
Nitsua98 Last Activity: 11/18/16 12:15 PM - Might just be checking in after chumming the waters.
Activity:
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12-09-16 05:42 PM
12/12/16 11:17 AM Activity: Private Messaging
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bmwpowere36m3
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I haven't seen anything that would be proof admissible in court to fraud.... just a lot of speculation, hunches and common-sense.
Sounds like either people stirring the pot or pissed they didn't get a jack themselves. What boggles me, these things keep being shipped and listed on eBay. If there isn't enough evidence here, then serves all parties right.
Sounds like either people stirring the pot or pissed they didn't get a jack themselves. What boggles me, these things keep being shipped and listed on eBay. If there isn't enough evidence here, then serves all parties right.
guy48065
Well-known member
I don't KNOW any of those 6 claims (and certainly don't believe some of them). As far as I'm concerned HF, SnapOn or eBay can man-up and tell SOMEONE the truth about what's going on. Until then it's all guessing.
I'm actually pissed that eBay can end all these listings for no reason and FedEx will turn a truck around & take the package back to origin...again with no reason given. If it really IS a scam then why let it continue for months and not attempt to get the word out & stop it?
I'm actually pissed that eBay can end all these listings for no reason and FedEx will turn a truck around & take the package back to origin...again with no reason given. If it really IS a scam then why let it continue for months and not attempt to get the word out & stop it?
The funny thing is I called and spoke to their fraud department almost a month ago. At first, they were almost argumentative until I nearly hung up. I explained it to them and they took my info and supposedly the supervisor would contact me. The fraud affects Harbor Freight well beyond Daytona floor jacks if you search ebay. Oh well, I tried. I am not going to waste my time trying to help them if they don't want to be helped.
Rewind97
Well-known member
H.F. probably doesn't want to go after anyone because it would cost them more than they are losing in sales of these items. They just chuck it up to loss and write it off.
bubinga
Well-known member
with all due respect sir, Snap on is not the only one that has copied the shape of ratchets and screwdrivers.
So if SO "Cleans There Clock" then someone that wants a decent working, nice looking tool, that can't afford SO price's can't get them.
Oldgloryfirearms
Well-known member
all of those points are speculation and you have no hard evidence to prove any of it. unless you have inside information no one else has
Trey T
Well-known member
the dude jacked_72 is a buzzedkiller.
I would get the Daytona in a heart beat if I didn't already have a jack. I have the gray low profile steel jack from HF and it excellent for homeowner like me.
I would get the Daytona in a heart beat if I didn't already have a jack. I have the gray low profile steel jack from HF and it excellent for homeowner like me.