Above 1200 Sq/FT Speed Metal Garage - rattle_snake’s 34x40 shop build in AZ

rattle_snake · May 10, 2017

I installed enough trim to get a few areas of the shop walls complete enough to move stuff back into place. This cleared out the **** pile in the middle that was blocking use of the lift.
So my shop is more or less back in business (again). I put the 72 Ford up on the lift to screw with the fuel pump. I have realized I am spoiled and lazy, as I could have done the work on the ground but decided to wait and use the lift as it makes the job easy and life happy.
Even though I have only about 2/3 of the trim done, I took some time to smell the roses and acknowledge the progress I have made on the interior. Still a long ways to go. I am trying to pick a stopping point for upcoming miserable hot weather. Plan is to enjoy outdoors as opposed to working myself to death around the place but given my past history I not sure what will happen.

The whole property is in so much better shape that it was a year or 2 ago. I have addressed almost all the catastrophes and severe annoyances. Instead of frantically fixing things, I can try to pry my wife away from her work or social media long enough to have a cold one and a conversation on the patio.

1949 caddyman · May 10, 2017

I konw you probably mentioned it but what gauge/type of steel are you using. Stainless? Etc.

Big Dad · May 11, 2017

coming along nicely .. Not so sure about standing on the truck to paint though ?

I'm clumsy so that would not work for me :lol_hitti

rattle_snake · May 11, 2017

1949 caddyman said:
I konw you probably mentioned it but what gauge/type of steel are you using. Stainless? Etc.

caddyman the sheets are mild steel, 24 gauge (which interestingly is 0.024"). They came as 4'x10' likely cut off a roll locally. I paid $29 a sheet which is about 72 cents/sqft. I could have gone with 26 gauge for around $25 a sheet, but I was worried the 26 was too thin. I was able to move the sheets myself, and if they were any thinner the install would have more creases and dents.

Big Dad said:
coming along nicely .. Not so sure about standing on the truck to paint though ?
I'm clumsy so that would not work for me

Anything to justify bigger tires to the wife.... Although I am getting resistance on building up the 72 Ford into a beast. My wife likes it the way it is, and we use it regularly to haul stuff around as the tailgate is MUCH lower than the '14.

Thinking of installation options for my audio system, again, as it is now sitting on the ground. I would like to finish the boxes and put the pieces in their final home however that is a big job. Plan B is to set the speakers on the yet-to-be-built shelf temporarily. I need to start with the supports, and thought about using the 4x4s from the skid that the sheet metal came on.
One of my original plans to cover the boxes was with metal to give it an aviation look. Now that the west wall is essentially that (and I have enough scrap to do it for free) I'm not sure more is better.
Not sure what to do with the equipment rack. I may re-build as a floor standing unit on wheels that would fit a fridge underneath. It's almost too heavy to lift as it is.

Trimmed in one of the intake vents. Didn't do doggie door style block-off, going another route.

Machinery back in position. Future welding table goes here.

Finallygotit · May 11, 2017

That looks good! :thumbup:

Should be extremely durable too.

:beer:

zmotorsports · May 11, 2017

That turned out great Justin. :thumbup:

Mike.

rattle_snake · May 12, 2017

Finallygotit said:
That looks good! Should be extremely durable too.

zmotorsports said:
That turned out great Justin.
Mike.

Thanks guys. As for durability, there are up and downs. It won't catch fire but it will dent, and repair isn't simple.
That said I have identified one of the drawbacks of the metal scheme, especially above 4'; Once you drill a hole it's there to stay. Drywall can be easily repaired if you move something around 4 times before your happy with the location. If you have OCD and use a level when you shouldn't this is a problem.
It is possible to weld a hole shut, but not practical.
So maybe this is why I haven't seen anyone else do things quite like this. :dunno:

Since my shop is no longer a construction zone I finally got around to tinkering with this old CD player. It is a Pioneer PD-M50 from 1987. Yes, a 30yr old Optical read-only digital media player. Back then I believe it was over $500.
It skipped a lot so I cleaned the laser and now its good as old. I'm an EE and a audiophile so I take interest in things like this. The size and complexity of the main PCB shows how much brute force it took to make a CD player back in the day, and hence the weight and cost.
It has either a very short or no playback buffer at all, so it is subject to skipping with vibration. It is physically close to the subs for now so it won't take more than 1/4 throttle. This unit has a headphone output with volume control so I can plug directly into my system.
I listen to a lot of streaming audio and the quality is complete ****. Over the last 30 years the availability and portability of music has come so, so far but the quality has gone in the *******. MP3s and compressed stream are now 'normal'. Very sad.

Finallygotit · May 12, 2017

I hear you on the audio quality. I got satellite radio back when they were offering lifetime memberships; loooooooong time ago. The quality back then was not too bad. Nowadays it sounds like ****. I have gone back to listening to CD's in my shop and DD. I really should look at loading a bunch of music on an SD card. My DD will only play one at a time. At least in the shop it will play 3.

All hail Klipsch! :bowdown:

Sorry for the sidetrack....

:beer:

Bob Heine · May 12, 2017

Justin, I really like the the way your shop is coming out and it looks like you are very close to working in it instead of on it.

Your Pioneer CD changer brought back fond memories. I remember how great it was to be able to put a cartridge in and not have to listen to the same song again for six hours. I have iPods in our cars with 1,200 or so favorites on random play. I like the commercial-free uninterrupted music but it certainly isn't dramatic -- a step above music in an elevator.

In 2003 I had a Pioneer 6-CD changer on the home system (in addition to cassette, 8-track and turntable). The empty CD-cassettes kept going up in price and getting harder and harder to find. As you can tell, I wasn't wedded to any one brand (price was the primary driver). Here is the main 2003 setup in all its glory (this is an old insurance photo):

My Corvettes are equipped with 10-CD Changers as well as the iPod links (Sony in the '72 and Pioneer in the '87). You can really notice the difference when you play classical music, like Vivaldi's Four Seasons. That's my go-to CD when some kid with a Rap song playing at full volume pulls up alongside me when I have the top down. Play what you like but please excuse me for cranking my system up to drown you out....

I may have gone a bit overboard on the CD changer thing. In 2006 I upgraded from the Pioneer 6-CD changer to a Sony 400-CD changer. When the Sony changer hiccuped years later I bought a used one on eBay before I tore the old one apart. One of the two drive belts broke so I replaced both and now have 800 CD capacity in the garage. The garage has a Sony 6.1 surround system that's also connected to the house intercom and a pair of speakers in the great room and a pair on the patio. The garage iPod is good enough for music while gardening out back.

I bought some oak-faced plywood and will eventually build an enclosure to keep some of the garage dust off the sound system and emergency ice maker. Termite infestation repairs come first....

rattle_snake · May 15, 2017

Dan,
I wasn't impressed with the SAT audio quality either... Or a Bluetooth link, which wasn't intended for stereo audio and doesn't have the bandwidth to do so well. BT wireless headphone are nice without the wires and have their place though.

Bob Heine said:
......That's my go-to CD when some kid with a Rap song playing at full volume pulls up alongside me when I have the top down. Play what you like but please excuse me for cranking my system up to drown you out....

Haha got a good laugh out of that one..
800 CD, wow that's a $erious collection. Impressive you must really like music. I think the appreciation for a collection like that is getting lost as anyone with a subscription can now have access to basically unlimited amounts. However there is only so much that one really likes or listens too.

I will say that subscriptions have allowed me to find a fair amount of both new and old music that I would not have found otherwise. Worth the few $, at least at this time.

rattle_snake · May 15, 2017

I put in a long day of trim/stain/paint and finished that aspect of the project.
So the next steps are:
1) Compressed air system
2) West wall shelf (just shelf and lighting, no doors)
3) Audio system install
4) Material racks on North wall
5) Cabinets on South wall
Which I think will take a long, long time.
Obligatory pictures (excuse the mess);

North wall will get material racks (like it had) for pipe/tubing/lumber. Likely 3 instances of a vertical supports out of steel for items from 6' to 20'. For now there is a pile on the floor :sad:

I swapped out the wood around the exhaust fan for some pre-stained trim. OCD then took over so it came out a little nicer.

South wall will have shallow cabinets in the blank area. 8'+ tall by 13' wide x 6" deep. Will hold chemicals, fluids, paint, cleaning equipment, clamps and other odd shaped tools and such.

I stained the overhead door frames, but painted the upper part to change the look and match the other door frames.

This corner will get a air hose reel

This area was the most work per sq ft.... still needs some turd polishing but it's almost done*

8500 install got some cleanup. I removed the 2x6 that connected the door frames and replaced with drywall. And I though I was done* with drywall?!?

CC/CV power supplies;
I re-wired the plasma to 220V. Need the air system...

Import toolbox under a 'Murican flag.... Heavy sigh...

License plate horn plaque. Not sure where I got this idea but there may have been a cold beer involved. Hope to put Superbowl championship paraphernalia with it soon (just need to @#$% win one).

*Done is an non-existent state that shall never be achieved

Bob Heine · May 15, 2017

rattle_snake said:
800 CD, wow that's a $erious collection. Impressive you must really like music. I think the appreciation for a collection like that is getting lost as anyone with a subscription can now have access to basically unlimited amounts. However there is only so much that one really likes or listens too.

Justin, only one of the Sony changers has music CDs -- the second one has 350+ audio books on CD that my wife likes having piped through the house. We're old so eyestrain takes the fun out of reading.

rattle_snake said:
South wall will have shallow cabinets in the blank area. 8'+ tall by 13' wide x 6" deep. Will hold chemicals, fluids, paint, cleaning equipment, clamps and other odd shaped tools and such.

I too like the idea of shallow cabinets. I pretty much filled a wall with them and it's nice not to have stuff hidden at the back of the shelf. A wall of 6" deep shelves would take care of some stuff but I would suggest you at least consider a slightly deeper shelf. Most of mine are 1"x8" and that allows gallon paint and solvent cans to fit with the doors closed. Actually the cabinet is slightly shallower at the top and bottom where I have 1"x4" nailers. The 8" deep units on the right are 30"x30". The two on the left are 10" deep and 42" high (those are the super cheap Mills Pride Melamine doors Home Depot used to sell years ago). The 10" depth is just right for magazine and catalog storage.

Here's the inside of one of the 8" deep cabinets:

zmotorsports · May 15, 2017

That is turning out absolutely fantastic Justin. I love the wood trim effect.

Mike.

rattle_snake · May 15, 2017

I bought a cheap Acurite temperature logging setup for the shop so can remotely pour over meaningless temperature data. I have 3 sensors; an inside, outside and an extra that I can play with.
My Exhaust fan is currently programmed to run 11pm-midnight and 3am-5am and can be seen as dips in the 'shop' temperature. Once the fan is shut off the air temp returns to the actual value of the shop interior and its contents.

I fired up my big swamp cooler for a few hours on Saturday and took some measurements on it as well. It made wet, musty smelling air so I dumped some bleach in it. It achieved a split of 12*- 16* with best case of 67* discharge temp. The temperature at the work bench didn't change at all, which is consistent with previous experiences. The 'shop' sensor hung on the lift post that is in airflow path did and is seen in the plot below. Once the outdoor temp is above the indoor by the split value, it's just a humidifier.

I put a sensor in the air intake vent and interestingly even when incoming air is above inside temp it still feels cool when blowing on you, even though it will heat the building. The exhaust fan/ceiling temp is about 3* above that at 5'.
Conclusion? It gets hot in AZ.

rattle_snake · May 15, 2017

Bob Heine said:
Justin, only one of the Sony changers has music CDs -- the second one has 350+ audio books on CD that my wife likes having piped through the house. We're old so eyestrain takes the fun out of reading.
I too like the idea of shallow cabinets. I pretty much filled a wall with them and it's nice not to have stuff hidden at the back of the shelf. A wall of 6" deep shelves would take care of some stuff but I would suggest you at least consider a slightly deeper shelf. Most of mine are 1"x8" and that allows gallon paint and solvent cans to fit with the doors closed. Actually the cabinet is slightly shallower at the top and bottom where I have 1"x4" nailers. The 8" deep units on the right are 30"x30". The two on the left are 10" deep and 42" high (those are the super cheap Mills Pride Melamine doors Home Depot used to sell years ago). The 10" depth is just right for magazine and catalog storage.

Bob thanks for the insight on the shelf depth. I have room for 1x8 and given your experience I think I will go that route. This is a good example of why this forum is helpful and useful to me.

zmotorsports said:
That is turning out absolutely fantastic Justin. I love the wood trim effect.

Mike.

Thanks Mike. It's been a lot of work (better than digging trenches) but I feel I have made it to another milestone.

Finallygotit · May 15, 2017

rattle_snake said:
Conclusion? It gets hot in AZ.

ASHMAN_AZ · May 15, 2017

Are all the metal panels tied to earth ground?

rattle_snake · May 15, 2017

Finallygotit said:

That's the shortened version for the normal people.

ASHMAN_AZ said:
Are all the metal panels tied to earth ground?

Yes they are, good question. The grounded switch/receptacle frames are in contact with the metal so it is.
I expected some degradation of cell/wifi signals due to this partial Faraday cage but didn't perceive a difference.
The overhead doors I guess are floating nodes.

NTCRS · May 16, 2017

Really nice shop you've got!

AZpilot · May 16, 2017

I am loving the shop/garage! Totally jealous.

rattle_snake · May 24, 2017

NTCRS said:
Really nice shop you've got!

Thanks!

AZpilot said:
I am loving the shop/garage! Totally jealous.

Thanks for the complements.

rattle_snake · May 24, 2017

Working IN my shop on a revision to my camping audio system. Current one consists of a 2ch car audio amp and pair of 6x9s but missing low end. So I got a free 4ch amp and put and old sub/box combo to use. Everything was free or leftover so don't worry much about rain or theft. It's cheap junk but effective.

The free amp has some issues, which would explain the price. I noticed that the rca inputs had am intermittent connection, and the result was L-R (stereo difference only) so points to a GND issue. I opened up the unit and found a failed solder joint on the input jack's gnd. Re-flowed the joint and problem solved.
Where's Waldo? Can you spot the culprit?

Some idiot lost the terminal screws and used huge truss head sheet metal screws, damaging the terminals. I re-tapped to M4 and replaced all the HW. I used the same 2 pin trailer pwr/speaker connectors as the old system so I can use either. Also added an illuminated on/off switch and a cigar jack (not switched) to charge phones and such. The PWR cord is 50' with a cigar plug on the end so I can place system close to fire/table or wherever I am an not have to crank it up so loud. Can run off truck, camper or boat batteries.

The business end. This sub's suspension is shot and couldn't take 500W anymore. runs fine under 200. The box is out of my boat, I made a copy of the factory sub box that was rotten. The boat has a big mono amp and a 5 channel. The 5 channel amp's sub channel is small compared to the mono so had no useful output, so I removed the 2nd sub. Without the sub load, the other 4 channels are much happier.

It works pretty well and goes reasonably loud. Bass response is OK in the shop but will be a different story out in the open.
:rocker:

lieutenant · May 24, 2017

Excellent work on everything. If Arizona wasn't so freaking hot five months out of the year I would be looking there instead of the Central Coast for our retirement home. Lots of great improvements to your place!

mikes02ls1 · May 31, 2017

lieutenant said:
Excellent work on everything. If Arizona wasn't so freaking hot five months out of the year I would be looking there instead of the Central Coast for our retirement home. Lots of great improvements to your place!

The warm winters make up for the hot summers. You can always have a cabin in showlow area to beat the heat during the summer.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OzarkMan · May 31, 2017

Found it! What do I win? Free passes to your awesome place?!

rattle_snake · Jun 1, 2017

MesaAZguy said:
Found it! What do I win? Free passes to your awesome place?!

Yes that was the one. Note the other two GND posts of the terminal block tore the copper traces off the fiberglass (although still electrically connected), as this PCB is only one sided and hence no vias.
Your prize, should you choose to accept it, is unlimited organic equine fertilizer for life.
Your more than welcome to stop in and check out the place. My friends tend to not stay long after I ask if they 'want gloves' for the unsolicited labor intensive task they have been unknowingly volunteered for.

Last week or so I have put all my time into my slide in truck camper. It hasn't received much TLC since we moved almost 3 yrs ago. I guess the fact that I have time for it now indicates that I have accomplished all the higher importance repairs & upgrades. It wasn't in bad shape, but definitely below my standards.
My younger daughter want to use the upper bunk so I got a piece of foam to fit. My lovely wife is concerned with her falling out, and has mandated a safety restraint system. Jokingly, I debated the need for such a device, dismissing the chance of a fall and pointing out she would likely land on the dog anyhow.
So I bend up some 1/2 EMT and made a anti-roll bar to appease the Mrs.
The big job was tinting all the windows. Since most can be opened they have a bug screen that needed to be removed, and required complete disassembly. A few minor fixes and a thorough cleaning, it's ready for our trip to San Diego next week.

OzarkMan · Jun 1, 2017

Well, My neighbor has offered free equine (Mule) fertilizer for life. I'll have to pass on yours! LOL
My labor is limited to what my little Yanmar tractor can do

Safe travels to San Diego. I'm envious, but work has me strapped down from any discretionary time off.

rattle_snake · Jun 5, 2017

Temps got up pretty high this weekend, so I did some additional useless analysis. I am pretty happy with the insulation, it was able to keep the inside around 90-92, which is about 20* cooler than outside at the peak. In contrast, without insulation the shop would get to about 103 in these conditions.

I relocated one of my sensors to a tree in the pasture to see how it compares to the one on my patio. The patio has lots of concrete, stucco and pavers and hit 113 whereas the pasture read 105. The shop air intake temperature are essentially those of the patio. I also took some readings with a cheap HF infrared gun. In the sun I observed the following;
Interior drywall = whatever interior temp is
Exterior stucco = 150
Interior man door = 95
Exterior man door =140
Interior overhead door = 100
Exterior overhead door =181 (at 8am!)
Concrete floor = 87
Ceiling = ?

I helped a friend swap out front struts on his Yukon. The replacement HW was cheap **** and one stripped. I made quick work of it with the lift/plasma, whereas in the olden days it would have been a frustrating battle. I re-plumbed the water supply on the swamp cooler and ran it the mornings.
I also spent some daddy-daughter time and re-painted both of their bicycles.

nsula_country · Jun 5, 2017

You have me wanting to check the exterior of my roll up doors in direct light. Glad I bought "insulated" roll up doors.

Seems like a fun project with your data gathering.

CT

rattle_snake · Jun 5, 2017

nsula_country said:
You have me wanting to check the exterior of my roll up doors in direct light. Glad I bought "insulated" roll up doors.

Seems like a fun project with your data gathering.

CT

The door insulation is badly needed in most cases. Looking back I should have paid some more for a better insulated doors (not that I had any extra $ at the time) as they are the main source of thermal transfer in the building.
I'm not sure why I gather data... I guess I like to be able to give a quantified answer to random questions.

After some testing of my latest audio project I made some improvements. The sub draws enough current to crater the amp's power supply on the long, undersized (16ga) power cord. Spending money on expensive cables is against the whole point, so I added some local electron storage in the form of a free motorcycle battery. Works great so 50' cord is just a charger line now, plus it can run for awhile on it's own. I whipped up a battery holder out of leftover sheetmetal. Love my new plasma for jobs like this.
The system didn't have enough gain for the sub channel so I added a preamp/eq that has been in a box for a long time. It made a significant improvement plus has a handy dedicated sub volume knob. The only problem is that it is VERY HEAVY. I added a carry handle and made battery box beefy enough to lift with. Maybe it needs wheels...

rattle_snake · Jun 20, 2017

Against better judgment I started the north wall material rack project. The compressed air system install is going slowly and will take a few more weeks to get time with neighbor who has a real pipe threading machine.

I used four pieces of 10' Unistrut strategically placed to support a variety of lengths of material from 4' up to 22'. I built one pair of shelf brackets and plan to make a bunch more in different shapes and sizes. The brackets can be installed wherever so the system is flexible and reconfigurable.

MacTexas · Jun 21, 2017

Nice looking shop. Looks like a thread I need to follow.

nsula_country · Jun 21, 2017

rattle_snake said:
Against better judgment I started the north wall material rack project. The compressed air system install is going slowly and will take a few more weeks to get time with neighbor who has a real pipe threading machine.

I used four pieces of 10' Unistrut strategically placed to support a variety of lengths of material from 4' up to 22'. I built one pair of shelf brackets and plan to make a bunch more in different shapes and sizes. The brackets can be installed wherever so the system is flexible and reconfigurable.

Gotta love Unistrut! Going to pick some up today for some conduit.

Waiting to see these shelf brackets mounted.

CT

rattle_snake · Jun 22, 2017

MacTexas said:
Nice looking shop. Looks like a thread I need to follow.

Thanks. I'm not sure I would follow myself, I always see a better way as soon as I'm done.

nsula_country said:
Gotta love Unistrut! Going to pick some up today for some conduit.
Waiting to see these shelf brackets mounted.
CT

Yes the Ubiquitous building material for those who can't weld. My toothed chop blade saw tells me its fairly hard material. Lots of cool brackets, adapters, trollies and such but too expensive for me. I can build them for slightly more.

You can see red shelf brackets rev 0.01a in the pic but my plan is to use 1.5" x 3/16" flat and angle for the next few sets.

OzarkMan · Jun 22, 2017

Looking real nice!

MrBreeze · Jun 23, 2017

Hey Justin,
Nicely done!
What kind of vents did you use - standard roof gable vents? Did you add the screens or were they part of the vent? Lastly, if you didn't power ventilate, and just had an upper vent where your exhaust fan is, do you think it would provide enough passive overnight cooling?

I'm needing to do something similar.

Thanks,
Scott

j p smith · Jun 24, 2017

rattle_snake said:
Your more than welcome to stop in and check out the place. My friends tend to not stay long after I ask if they 'want gloves' for the unsolicited labor intensive task they have been unknowingly volunteered for.

Justin, at my brothers farm in NC, he subscribes to the theory that a "working guest is a happy guest"

The first time I visited in 2002 he told me(with a straight face) we would have time to do some of the things I had asked as we would be able to get everything accomplished that he wanted an only need to work a half day and he didn't care which 12 hours we worked.

rattle_snake · Jun 26, 2017

MesaAZguy said:
Looking real nice!

Thanks for stopping in.

MrBreeze said:
Hey Justin,
Nicely done!
What kind of vents did you use - standard roof gable vents? Did you add the screens or were they part of the vent? Lastly, if you didn't power ventilate, and just had an upper vent where your exhaust fan is, do you think it would provide enough passive overnight cooling?

I'm needing to do something similar.

Thanks,
Scott

Mr Breeze,
Speaking of breezes, I'll attempt to keep this short.
Yes, standard gable vent from HD. They come with a steel screen, although the mesh is 1/4" and allows bugs in.
Passive (convection) cooling wouldn't be effective enough, but better than nothing like a typical garage. The power ventilation is badly needed the hotter it gets. You can somewhat infer what the shop tempatures would be with passive from the graph in this post:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6506317&postcount=334
Without power ventilation I'd predict the shop temp would only swing 4-5* and would be centered above the average outdoor temp.
Power ventilation also helps remove heat from parking a hot vehicle(s).
I'm running the fan 5 hours a night, and at this time I can only get low of 90, with high around 98. 98 feels cool when its 120, sadly.
I installed force ventilation in my barn also. Attached garage is next.

j p smith said:
Justin, at my brothers farm in NC, he subscribes to the theory that a "working guest is a happy guest"
The first time I visited in 2002 he told me(with a straight face) we would have time to do some of the things I had asked as we would be able to get everything accomplished that he wanted an only need to work a half day and he didn't care which 12 hours we worked.

12 hours... yes technically only a 1/2 day. An overworked guest sleeps well.

rattle_snake · Jun 26, 2017

Working towards my goal of not working on the shop much this miserably hot summer. Made 2 camping trips this month and have 2 scheduled next month. The maintenance and modifications to my truck, camper and boat have allowed the trips go smooth. Happy (wife && kids) = happy life.

west_perf · Jun 26, 2017

Nice Justin, is that Saguaro lake?

Above 1200 Sq/FT Speed Metal Garage - rattle_snake’s 34x40 shop build in AZ

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