Battle of the low cost ($400) 60-gallon 240v compressors -- help me decide

Jack Olsen · Nov 20, 2009

Neither is the ultimate compressor. Neither is two stage. But I'd be grateful for any guidance, or to know if there are any meaningful differences between the two.

In this corner, the Husky Pro at Home Depot. It's a re-badged Campbell Hausfeld (you can get the C-H for $400 at Tractor Supply, but I live in the city). 240V, 15 amp. Claimed 3.2 horsepower. 10.2 SCFM @ 90 PSI. 135 PSI max. Three year warranty. 1070 rpm at the compressor. No data on db.

In this corner, the Kobalt at Lowes. I've been told it's a re-badged Colemam (which I believe is out of business). Their text description says twin cylinder, but the photograph looks like one. 240V, 15 amp. Claimed 3.7 horsepower. 11.5 SCFM @ 90 PSI. 155 PSI max. Three year warranty. No information on rpm or db.

To add one more wrinkle, Lowes also carries a similar Campbell Hausfeld to the re-badged Husky -- model VT6275 (at Lowes) verses model VT6314 (at Home Depot).

Noise is a big concern of mine (not so big that I want to spend more money for a two-stage). Does anyone have any experience with both of them?

gahrajmahal · Nov 20, 2009

Campbell Hausfeld is located here in Cincinnati Ohio and for years was a revolving door for engineers and the product suffered because of that. I am no longer doing that for a living, but I believe they have improved since then (1990's). Materials and manufacturing processes have improved also at not too much cost increase. As far as a recommendation, if you are using this in your home shop either one will work just fine. I would avoid any compressor that was oil free, but I don't think that applies to anything this size. I would buy whatever is the best buy and after a break-in time change the oil out for Mobile 1 synthetic. There is another link on this site where they have added a cooler between the compressor & tank that I think you will be interested in. Good luck and let us know which way you go.

Lhorn · Nov 20, 2009

I thought both HD and Lowe's sold rebadged CH, No?

If that truly is a rebadged Coleman, then I'd skip it. I'm more comfortable with the reputation of CH.

lametec · Nov 20, 2009

Jack Olsen said:
Their text description says twin cylinder, but the photograph looks like one.

They're both inline 2 cylinder compressors.

38Chevy454 · Nov 20, 2009

What is the construction of the cylinders? Are they cast iron, or aluminum with sleeve? Full cast iron will be quieter, and is better.

Falcon67 · Nov 20, 2009

>(you can get the C-H for $400 at Tractor Supply, but I live in the city).
I live in the country and have to drive to the city to get to the local Tractor Supply.

AFAIK, and I looked at all of them - they are basically the same. I picked the CH one, got Lowes to price match it. The CH unit I have has a cast iron compressor.

I was after the 10% price match guarantee, but that drove it below Lowes cost and they won't go below cost, so I got it for the same price - $399. I had to take them a picture of the model number on the compressor and the price, because the store SKU numbers are different - duh. I call BS on the "below cost" deal, but I got the compressor and not going to worry about it.

VT6275 - same model number as the TSC unit. I still have a pic on my iPhone, so if you'd like to try the Price Match Boogie send me a PM and I'll forward the photo. The "gotcha" will be the number on the TSC price tag - it says VT6355 (looks like it - bit fuzzy) - but the pic shows the price label right next to the big CH label with the VT627505AJ number on it. Same exact label that is on the Lowes CH units.

Dan0myte · Nov 20, 2009

From the side profile of the electric motors, the Husky looks like it has a G.E. unit and the Kobalt has an A.O. Smith. They're both good makes, but the A.O. Smith would be slightly more robust, which is also reflected in the horspower ratings (same amperage draw, but A.O. Smith has slightly higher peak HP)

As for pumps, they're both cast iron, inline twins. Both belt driven and oil lubricated. But because of the A.O. Smith having more peak HP, the pump is designed with slightly higher compression giving more PSI and air flow.

Tanks and pressure switches look like standard fare. No comparison there.

Looking at the specs, I would go with the Kobalt. More bang for the buck there.

royalton10 · Nov 20, 2009

I just received a post card flyer from TSC or Tractor Supply Wednesday. They have a promo of 10% entire purchase if buy $100 or more, this is thru Nov 22. This might help the buying decision if TSC nearby.

benjamming · Nov 20, 2009

38Chevy454 said:
What is the construction of the cylinders? Are they cast iron, or aluminum with sleeve? Full cast iron will be quieter, and is better.

And follow that with what type valves & material?

If the mfg won't at least provide the compressor rpm, I would skip it no matter what (talking about buying new here not used).

el_gureo · Nov 20, 2009

I have the Kobalt one and I’ve had mine for two years and I like it. I got it mostly to do some media blasting. It’s not quite but it does keep up with everything I need it to do.

hope this helps.

snorky18 · Nov 20, 2009

Dan0myte said:
From the side profile of the electric motors, the Husky looks like it has a G.E. unit and the Kobalt has an A.O. Smith.

You can tell brands from those pics? You must spend a lot of time around electric motors. I can verify that you're right about the Kobalt having an A.O. though, I have that one.

I'd go with the Kobalt b/c
1) I own one and it's been great
2) Higher max psi, higher CFM

FYI, I vaguely remember reading somewhere that the Kobalts are made in SC.

In terms of noise of these vs. 2 stage, I've heard you can talk next to a running 2 stage in normal conversation.

With my old oil free direct drive compressor, I had to wear ear plugs anytime it came on.

With the Kobalt, I no longer need earplugs, but having a conversation next to it while running would not quite be possible, at least not at normal voice levels.

Vinko · Nov 20, 2009

You need this 60 gallon unit:

http://www.saylor-beall.com/air_compressors/tank_mounted_vertical.php

Daniel Dudley · Nov 20, 2009

Vinco, do they have a price on the link.

krooser · Nov 20, 2009

My Bel-Aire came with an A.O. Smith motor... when it died I bought a used GE from the local electric motor store...SAME MOTOR...exactly. And neither one is anything to write home about as far as quality goes... the field windings shorted on the original motor because they no longer use enough insulation on the windings...

I say for get those box store compressors and keep your eye out for a REAL compressor on Craig's List on a local auction... you'll get more compressor for the same money.

Falcon67 · Nov 20, 2009

Beware the "higher PSI" labeling - most of those read "MAX PRESSURE ***". Mine is Max 135, regulator cuts off at 120 and my average system pressure is around 100. Compressor cut in is about 85~90.

Silver96firebird · Nov 20, 2009

Hey guys, this is my first post here on Garage Journal!

Looking at the picture and specs of the Kobalt, it appears to be a rebadged version of the compressor I have (mine says Industrial Air).

http://common.csnstores.com/common/marketing/Coleman/ILA3606056.pdf

In reality it is made by Campbell Hausfeld, and I am very happy with mine. The 155 PSI number is real, the motor comes on around 120 PSI and shuts off near 155 PSI. This is useful because the output never drops below your working pressure and it also allows the tank to store more air. I wouldn't say it's super quite, but it's not terrible either. I just went out to the garage and can confirm the motor is made by A.O. Smith. The pump is a twin cylinder cast iron unit. I orderd mine from Northern Tool a couple years ago because of many good reviews.

Steve from Socal · Nov 20, 2009

Jack,

I am going to second Krooser's suggestion to skip the big box junk and find a Real compressor on CL. I bought my Curtis for 200.00 and there are always more deals on CL in our little town.

Steve

lawfarm · Nov 20, 2009

Jack,

I have the Husky...bought it at HD on sale. I've had it for 3-4 years now, and it works great. It has run in cold weather and hot, for loooong duty cycles, and has never skipped a beat. Not unreasonably loud, produces a ton of air, and works well. I replaced the cheapo drain with a 1/4 turn ball valve, but otherwise, it is box-stock. Again, very pleased.

dodgeramsst2003 · Nov 20, 2009

I have the CH 6 hp 60 gallon that I bought new in 96 or 97, can't remember when exactly. The pump went bad ( valves started leaking) during the warranty period, and they shipped a brand new pump to me no charge. This was maybe 98 or 99. Its been running ever since and I keep it turned on all the time to make sure I have air when I need it. I have a small leak so it runs once or twice a day even if I'm not out there. For the money it's a good unit. I can't believe they are putting such small motors on them these days though. BTW I paid 399 for mine when I bought it.

Dan in Pasadena · Nov 21, 2009

Jack,
I don't know if you saw it or not but I posted in another thread a few days ago that the Home Depot in Whittier, across the street from Presbyterian Hospital has a refurbished one like in your picture above for $315. That was last weekend when I happened to be there so I don't know if its there anymore. Since its refurbished, it comes with no warranty but it looked in perfect condition. I suspect they must have had to do something minor to it.

Tyrol67 · Nov 21, 2009

I'd also keep your eye out on Craigslist. I've seen a few good ones lately in the $400 range. I went for a new Quincy QT-5 for about $1,000. That was eight years ago and I haven't looked back. If you're planning on running a DA sander, sandblaster, or grinder, you'll appreciate that thumping power. Hasn't lost much value, since today the same compressor goes for about $1400. Something to think about and there are some nice deals out there CL.
Good Luck!

jwith68 · Nov 21, 2009

Jack, I have the Husky Pro model shown above and it has been trouble free. Mine is ~2005 vintage, picked it up used-but-like-new condition in 2007 for $275. I think either one is a very good value for a home shop, and would probably choose based on price, availability, and your level of comfort with the store.

I will say that the "155 psi max" on the Kobalt sounds a bit high - the pressure switch is likely not set that high, or shouldn't be anyway. Single stage compression to that pressure gets to an extremely high pressure ratio, and will cause very high discharge temps off the compressor. That's rough on the valves, and will require more cooling for decent moisture removal.

Jack Olsen · Nov 21, 2009

Thanks, guys. Doing a little more research with Lowes, it looks like I'm going to have trouble finding the Kobalt anywhere near me. I agree with the guys who say a professional level compressor is better, but my needs are pretty modest -- I think these inexpensive 240v models are a good compromise point between something like a Quincy and the oil-free Sears model I've been using for the last ten years.

I like the idea of a great deal on a refurb or even second-hand model -- although to me, I think the warranty will be worth the $85 difference on the Husky Pro.

I'll post here again if I pull the trigger or find some new option.

snakyjake · Nov 21, 2009

Comparing VT6314 vs. VT6275:

The Home Depot VT6314 says the pump is 1070 RPM, which is a lower, quieter, cooler RPM than other models. Not sure what the RPM is of the VT6275.

You get more HP from the VT6314 than the VT6275 (3.2 HP vs. 3.0 HP).

So now I'm considering the VT6314 rather than the VT6275.

Comparing VT6314 vs. Kobalt:

I'm reading through the description of the Kobalt. It says "cast iron cylinder body, aluminum head". From what I've read, the aluminum will be louder and hotter than cast iron (don't know why, but that's what my reading has lead me to believe).

But, the Kobalt has to it's advantage:
155 PSI vs. 135 PSI
3.7 HP vs. 3.2 HP
11.5 SCFM vs. 10.2 SCFM

From my reading, the 155 vs. 135 may not mean a lot since the tools I'm going to use don't need more than 90 PSI. Also, I haven't seen air/water filters and regulators specified to handle more than 135 PSI. Therefore the 90 PSI + SCFM is the number to compare.

So it seems to me it is coming down to power vs. noise.
How much noise difference is there?
How much will .5 HP make a difference?
How much will 1.3 SCFM make a difference?
How much can we believe non-certified specs?

Also, looking at the air tools you'll be using will help you make your choice.
1/2 impact wrench won't use more than 5 CFM.

I'm leaning more towards the VT6314 because of the cast iron and less noise. I doubt I'll ever need the extra 1.3 SCFM. If 10.2 SCFM can't do the job, 11.5 SCFM probably won't either. If I thought it would make a difference, I'd spend the hundreds more money and jump to the next quality level.

My decision would swap if someone convinced me aluminum heads are better than all cast iron.

Jake

Dan in Pasadena · Nov 21, 2009

Jack Olsen said:
...my needs are pretty modest -- I think these inexpensive 240v models are a good compromise ....I like the idea of a great deal on a refurb...although to me, I think the warranty will be worth the $85 difference on the Husky Pro.

Great minds think alike I guess. These are my feelings exactly, which is why I ultimately did not pull the trigger on it myself. Though I admit the clerk I asked didn't seem all that sure of himself. I was in a hurry and didn't ask him to go ask a manager. If it came with a warranty it would be areal good deal for the modest user like I will be. I'm looking for one to run a smallish sandblast cabinet I got off CL. Not sure my needs (there is no mfg or model no. info on this old cabinet) but I'm thinking 10 cfm oughta do it.

Silver96firebird · Nov 21, 2009

Just to answer a few questions about the Lowes CH compressor:

1) Again, yes, the 155 PSI is really the operating pressure. I fired up my industrial air machine today and took this picture:

2) Some people claim "the air will get too hot since it's single stage" This doesn't make sense to me. The primary heat generator in an air compressor is from the air actually compressing (remember the ideal gas law? PV = nRT?). Regardless of how many stages you have, the air will still heat up.

3) Even if you don't need the high pressure, having more pressure in the tank means more air is avalible to use. If you had two compressors with equal CFM specs but one had a lower max pressure, that compressor would need a physically larger tank to deliver the same amount of air before your output pressure drops. If you are trying to provide 90 PSI to a DA sander and you start at 155, it will take a considerable amount of air usage before the tank pressure makes it all the way down to 90 PSI, especially when you consider the compressor will turn back on at 120 to help you recover. If your tank pressure is 135 PSI to start , it won't take as long before the tank pressure drops to 90PSI.

I would say either compressor should serve you well and do what you need, this is just my $0.02

Shocker · Nov 23, 2009

Did you look at the US General 60 gallon over at Harbor Freight?

For some reason it is not on the website, but it had 12.9 cfm at 90psi and was $397

snakyjake · Nov 23, 2009

I looked at the US General. It seemed like a sturdy built compressor. The pump appeared 100% cast iron (more quiet and better cooled). And the specs are top performing.

Not sure about reliability.
Not sure if the specs can be trusted. Maybe specs are just marketing?

After doing some searches, the US General might be a BelAire 6061V with a M182711 motor and B3800 pump. Can anyone confirm or deny?

Jake

snakyjake · Nov 23, 2009

Doing some more internet searches, I haven't found anyone say a single bad thing about US General. And I believe their motors are made by ABAC, which is a reputable company for consumer quality air compressors.

Dan0myte · Nov 23, 2009

snorky18 said:
You can tell brands from those pics? You must spend a lot of time around electric motors. I can verify that you're right about the Kobalt having an A.O. though, I have that one.

Thanks. I paid my way through university by working at a store that sold electric motors and air compressors. I think I almost learned more at that job than I did at school.

snorky18 · Nov 23, 2009

Dan0myte said:
I think I almost learned more at that job than I did at school.

Ain't that the truth for most everybody! :lol_hitti

Dan0myte · Nov 23, 2009

snakyjake said:
From my reading, the 155 vs. 135 may not mean a lot since the tools I'm going to use don't need more than 90 PSI.

This is a major misconception in air compressors. "Why do I need more than 90psi? My air tools say 90psi max."

It was already mentioned in this thread a couple posts back, PV=nRT, or converted to PV/RT = n where n is the amount of moles of air in your tank a.k.a. stored energy. The pressure in tank times the tank size divided by the temperature of the air and a constant. You can increase the amount of stored energy by either 1. Increasing the pressure 2. Increasing the volume 3. Decreasing the temperature.

Going from 135psi in the tank to 155psi in the tank makes absolutely no difference to your tools, you're right, but it does make a difference in how long your tools can run for before the pump needs to cut in again. The more energy (moles of air) you can store in the tank, the less your pump runs, extending the life your compressor and extending the life of your ear drums from the noise.

snakyjake · Nov 23, 2009

Dan0myte said:
Going from 135psi in the tank to 155psi in the tank makes absolutely no difference to your tools, you're right, but it does make a difference in how long your tools can run for before the pump needs to cut in again. The more energy (moles of air) you can store in the tank, the less your pump runs, extending the life your compressor and extending the life of your ear drums from the noise.

I like the explanation. But won't the compressor be running the same amount of time trying to maintain 155 PSI?

I've been paying attention to SCFM because it takes account for the PSI and tank size.

Another consideration would be the RPM of the pump. Slower is better (less noise, less heat, last longer).

I'm leaning towards the U.S. General. It seems like the best combination of the Kobalt and the Campbell Hausfeld.

Again, enjoying the explanations and the learning.

Thank you,

Jake

Jack Olsen · Nov 23, 2009

Which US General model are you talking about, Jake?

I haven't been able to find a comparable (~$400, 60 gallon) model at Harbor Freight's website.

pseudorealityx · Nov 23, 2009

That's odd. I know I've seen them in the store, but Jack's right... not on the website. My only question is in regards to the quality of that unit. I think I may have been scared off by other Harbor Freight items. I think it was GRM that basically said anything from Harbor Freight eventually becomes a hammer. This would be a really heavy hammer...

-following this thread with interest.

Dan0myte · Nov 23, 2009

snakyjake said:
I like the explanation. But won't the compressor be running the same amount of time trying to maintain 155 PSI?

That will depend on the pressure switch setting. Most switches are set to cut-in at 120psi to 'catch' the falling pressure before it has a chance to drop below the 90psi mark.

With the 135psi compressor, you have a 15psi buffer in the tank before the pump cuts in to recover. With a decently sized air tool you will drop 15psi in no time.

With the 155psi compressor, you have a 35psi buffer in the tank before the pump cuts in to recover. The air compressor is going to be sitting there a lot longer, nice and quiet, before the switch kicks the pump on again.

Now, on the other side of this, yes, the pump will run longer once it cuts in because it has to get back to 155psi vs. the other one which only has to reach 135psi. But there will be longer periods of quietness between pumping sessions, and this down time will also help cool the air compressor pump and lead to longer pump life. The 135psi pump will be running much more often which means it's going to be building up a lot more residual heat.

rickairmedic · Nov 23, 2009

I have the 60 gallon US General compressor and have had it for about 5 years . They are made in the USA by the way . To give you an idea of how reliable it is about 3 years ago I woke up one morning to find mine running ( for how long who knows ) . A hose had burst sometime durring the night and it was still running when I woke up . The same compressor is still running and working just fine today 3 years later . When I did all my research on sub $500 compressors years ago the HF unit rose above all the rest in price and performance . The only complaint I have ever had with it is the sucker is loud ( that is a problem that you will have with any of the single stage 60 Gallon compressors as noted by a recent thread about compressor noise ) . I will be in the market next summer for a 2 stage 80 gallon unit and will most likely look at the US General offerings for my new compressor and will also most likely get most of my money back out of this one . I am pretty sure I got it for just over $300 when I got it ( onsale with a 20% coupon )

.

Rick

Costner · Nov 23, 2009

Jack - any chance you have a Menards in your area? Menards currently has the 60 gallon Sanborn on sale for $389. It has 3.7 running HP, 13.4 CFM at 40 PSI, 11.5 CFM at 90 PSI, Oil lubed cast iron pump.

Stinger · Nov 23, 2009

I have the Kobalt unit from Lowes and I was shocked how quiet it was when I first fired it up. I used to have a Belair unit and this new one makes WAY less noise. I don't find the Kobalt annoying at all. I think it would be very easy to make virtually silent with a little shrouding too.

snakyjake · Nov 23, 2009

Jack Olsen said:
Which US General model are you talking about, Jake?

I haven't been able to find a comparable (~$400, 60 gallon) model at Harbor Freight's website.

I saw it my Harbor Freight store, not the website. Shocker saw the same.

Battle of the low cost ($400) 60-gallon 240v compressors -- help me decide

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