Bobioz1
Well-known member
Date on slide.
Wilton Bullet Vise date stamping. show yours with or without EXP on slide
- Thread starter drivesitfar
- Start date
Bobioz1
Well-known member
Bobioz1
Well-known member
Bobioz1
Well-known member
Slightly off the exact topic, but here's one for sale (I am not the owner, nor involved in the sale). Is this a good vice to own?
https://ventura.craigslist.org/tls/6107369060.html
https://ventura.craigslist.org/tls/6107369060.html
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Assuming no hidden damage, it looks very nice; but its sort of small for that kind of money in my opinion.
If you have time at least go look at it and see what I mean.
If you have time at least go look at it and see what I mean.
My 820 baby bullet has the same stepped down main body and simple cross bar, it's dated 1-46.
Calebharbin
Member
Picked this up today. No date stamp that I can find. Any ideas on age?
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OP
drivesitfar
Well-known member
CALE: more than likely yours could be a 1941 vise or if you picked it up from a school or a busy shop the stamp could have wore off and it might be a 1945-1946, but it's an oldy and goodie. nice find.
also welcome to the forum and hope you like it hear as much as I do.
cheers
ALL: I passed this 1/77 4.5 inch bullet on to an owner of a steel fab business and he turned down my 6/69 3.5 inch bullet saying his guys would probably break it.
also welcome to the forum and hope you like it hear as much as I do.
cheers
ALL: I passed this 1/77 4.5 inch bullet on to an owner of a steel fab business and he turned down my 6/69 3.5 inch bullet saying his guys would probably break it.
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Nice find! Note that vise does not say Chicago, I think it is really early as in 1941.
Sorry for responding so late. After looking at hundreds of vises for the database the mea meaning of the no 5 on your vise vise is unknown, my early 5" vise has a "No 4" on it. It is probably just another unrelated casting mold number. Maybe the 5 on yours is the 5th revision of the casting?
Hey guys. Here are some interesting notes on a newly acquired 4" Wilton with simple "HD" stamps on the articulating jaw and body. I'm trying to date it. Shown here are also some comparisons to my 1946 No. 4 which has a date stamp.
Here are the vitals on the HD vise...
No date stamp on the key. Key is also longer than the '46. See comparison pic.
No model number stamping on vise body. "HD" only.
Original old-style jaws with straight serrations
Low-drilled straight through single pin nut retainer. (This is interesting. All post-war Wiltons I've seen including my '46 have two nut retainer pins that are drilled higher on the vise. The HD nut passes all the way through the vise body and notches the bottom of the nut. See pic. I am taking a guess and saying this HD vise in a very early '45 or '44.
Here are the vitals on the HD vise...
No date stamp on the key. Key is also longer than the '46. See comparison pic.
No model number stamping on vise body. "HD" only.
Original old-style jaws with straight serrations
Low-drilled straight through single pin nut retainer. (This is interesting. All post-war Wiltons I've seen including my '46 have two nut retainer pins that are drilled higher on the vise. The HD nut passes all the way through the vise body and notches the bottom of the nut. See pic. I am taking a guess and saying this HD vise in a very early '45 or '44.
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Also, an interesting note provided by the guy from whom I purchased the vise on Craigslist out here in San Francisco. The "he" referenced here is his father who passed at 47 from asbestos complications at the shipyards--tragically too young. I do nonetheless love the history associated with these old tools.
"This came out of one of the old shipyard machinist shops. Probably in one of the smaller tooling sections. I remember the vise was always in the garage growing up so it might have come out of Pier 63 in Mission Bay or one of the other shops in that area like the historic yard on Pier 70. In those days most work was done in larger yards as subcontracts so he did move around a lot. Hope that helps."
"This came out of one of the old shipyard machinist shops. Probably in one of the smaller tooling sections. I remember the vise was always in the garage growing up so it might have come out of Pier 63 in Mission Bay or one of the other shops in that area like the historic yard on Pier 70. In those days most work was done in larger yards as subcontracts so he did move around a lot. Hope that helps."
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I'm working on two vises of similar vintage right now. The first is a 4" HD model that has a date stamp of 2-46. It has the more common two pins in the center of the tail cap assembly/nut. The pins are well above the word Chicago.
I'm also working on a 935 that has no date stamp on the slide. It's in fantastic condition other than terrible paint...still a very tight slide and little wear. It has the single low placement pin through the tail cap assembly, but the back of the nut is smooth like your 1946 picture. The pins are well below the word Chicago.
I think you're right that your new vise is earlier than 46.
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KMScott
Well-known member
I always thought the first Wilton's built had the straight serrations until they figured out the setup for cutting 30 degree cross cut serrations. I always thought this was considered the first generation bullets. I fit a set of jaws on a #6 fish hook Wilton yesterday, the 6 x 1 x 5/8 thick jaws had the 4" Center to Center screw holes just like the 1760 Tradesman. These jaws also fit the 6" Paramo.
va.grouseman
Well-known member
The little red 935 I posted above that doesn't have a date on the key does have the straight serrations, so that sort of matches (I think!).
I'm also working on a 935 that has no date stamp on the slide. It's in fantastic condition other than terrible paint...still a very tight slide and little wear. It has the single low placement pin through the tail cap assembly, but the back of the nut is smooth like your 1946 picture. The pins are well below the word Chicago.
Interesting! Does your 935 have the longer key?
Interesting! Does your 935 have the longer key?
I forgot about that, but got lucky with the pics. If you look at the photo above of the 4" HD, you can see the 935 slide upside down in the background. It has the key with just a small amount of grove left unfilled, so it does seem to have a longer key like your unmarked vise.
Yep. I see that now. So I guess we can surmise a few things about War Wiltons. Regardless of the presence of a Patent Pending casting you'll see a single low-mount nut retainer pin, a longer often undated key and original jaws with straight serrations. I would be interested to see how the consistency of these observations holds up. I'm debating a restoration on this vise but my gut is telling me to leave it.
Last week I picked up a vise for parts and got it unstuck this morning. It's stamped 9-45 (4.5" jaw) and has two pins, and a standard nut. I'll check the key length in a few minutes and edit this post later. It's got the shorter key. The jaw support on the static jaw is badly broken and it has Parker jaws welded as replacements (or that's what they look like) so there's no telling what the original jaws were.
Still, it's clearly a 1945 vise with two pins, so that helps.
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
That sure does looks like Parker jaws...
mgmlvks
Well-known member
Wilton 835 Vise. Damaged jaw. Priced right. Dated 7-46. More pics on request.
Sorry....I missed this before. It doesn't have the tabs sticking straight back that the somewhat newer 9450s often have. Here's a pic:
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jonhdw
Well-known member
jonhdw
Well-known member
The newest arrival, a 4" HD model with no date stamp, and the early single pin tail cap/nut setup and with straight line jaws that are nearly perfect. The slide is virtually unmarked. It has what looks like the old red lead-based primer under the paint. It came from near a naval station, so I'm wondering if it was used by the navy...they liked to paint everything with that red primer and top coat with gray...this is pretty similar. It also had a set of bronze soft jaws with it that had very little use showing.
I can't imagine something on a ship going unused, but it could have been in the back room of a training building for its entire life...who knows, right?
I can't imagine something on a ship going unused, but it could have been in the back room of a training building for its entire life...who knows, right?
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va.grouseman
Well-known member
That's a beauty G-Man.---Practically NOS.---It's got those York lateral grippers which is par for the first generation.---And the bronze grippers indicate it was intended for delicates or spark free work.---Very nice find.
The newest addition is a No. 4 with no date stamp on the key, and a little special something stamped on the front of the dynamic. It has USAAF which stands for U.S. Army Air Forces, so it's a true WWII veteran!
Since the Wilton patent was issued in March 1942 (correct me if I'm wrong there) that means this vise was made in the first year of production. It also fits because of the prior comments about Wilton production going to the military or war contract work from 1941 to 1945.
To say I was a bit more than shocked when I saw the stamped letters is an understatement. I honestly wonder if this might be something for the USAF Museum, or similar?
Since the Wilton patent was issued in March 1942 (correct me if I'm wrong there) that means this vise was made in the first year of production. It also fits because of the prior comments about Wilton production going to the military or war contract work from 1941 to 1945.
To say I was a bit more than shocked when I saw the stamped letters is an understatement. I honestly wonder if this might be something for the USAF Museum, or similar?
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thehorse13
Well-known member
That's an outstanding find.
454ragtop
Well-known member
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
G-ManBart:
The 4" HD sure looks like it has a coat of classic wartime US Navy "Ocean Grey" to me. They enameled the shanks of all their DOE wrenches with the same color. I don't know about the jaws though. Brass and bronze were strictly controlled. You guys may have missed it but I posted a summary of restrictions on vises earlier in this thread. Vises themselves could be made only of carbon steel or cast or malleable iron. Jaws could be tool steel. Jaw caps lead or lead based alloy. Exceptions were not unknown, but usually only for high priority orders.
I am very jealous of that "USAAF" stamped vise! Terrific acquisition!
But I am happy it turned up, because it very much confirms our analysis.
I am a little confused on how you're establishing that it was made in "the first year of production."
Wilton was granted the patent in March 1942, but he applied in August 1941, the same month he went into production. He was already advertising the bullet vise in January 1942. The US Army Air Forces was established (due to a rift between Army command and US Army Air Corps command over who owned strategic bombers, for anyone interested in that kind of history) in 1942 and it was in place until 1947, when the US Air Force was created as a separate service equivalent to the US Army. Since Wilton didn't start stamping slides with a mfgring date until 9-45 (earliest we have seen so far anyway), and your vise has no date stamp, but it does have a 'USAAF' stamp (crudely applied, most likely, by the USAAF, not Wilton), I agree that it has the best provenance we have seen yet as being a wartime Wilton. The USAAF was still in existence in 1946, but Wilton was already stamping its vises then. So it's definitely wartime! But it might have been made in 1942, 1943, 1944, or early 1945, also, no? Edit: Or am I missing something?
The 4" HD sure looks like it has a coat of classic wartime US Navy "Ocean Grey" to me. They enameled the shanks of all their DOE wrenches with the same color. I don't know about the jaws though. Brass and bronze were strictly controlled. You guys may have missed it but I posted a summary of restrictions on vises earlier in this thread. Vises themselves could be made only of carbon steel or cast or malleable iron. Jaws could be tool steel. Jaw caps lead or lead based alloy. Exceptions were not unknown, but usually only for high priority orders.
I am very jealous of that "USAAF" stamped vise! Terrific acquisition!
But I am happy it turned up, because it very much confirms our analysis.
I am a little confused on how you're establishing that it was made in "the first year of production."
Wilton was granted the patent in March 1942, but he applied in August 1941, the same month he went into production. He was already advertising the bullet vise in January 1942. The US Army Air Forces was established (due to a rift between Army command and US Army Air Corps command over who owned strategic bombers, for anyone interested in that kind of history) in 1942 and it was in place until 1947, when the US Air Force was created as a separate service equivalent to the US Army. Since Wilton didn't start stamping slides with a mfgring date until 9-45 (earliest we have seen so far anyway), and your vise has no date stamp, but it does have a 'USAAF' stamp (crudely applied, most likely, by the USAAF, not Wilton), I agree that it has the best provenance we have seen yet as being a wartime Wilton. The USAAF was still in existence in 1946, but Wilton was already stamping its vises then. So it's definitely wartime! But it might have been made in 1942, 1943, 1944, or early 1945, also, no? Edit: Or am I missing something?
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mgmlvks
Well-known member
For the Record:
4.5" Jaws, Main Casting Numbers 101162 and 101163. Slide dated 11-83
4.5" Jaws, Main Casting Numbers 101162 and 101163. Slide dated 11-83