The VISES of Garage Journal

drivesitfar · Jan 17, 2018

NOTU: the one 007 posted has a patent date of 1910 and not 1867 like the one you posted and his has a swivel base and yours should have a bolt thru swivel and a nut (hopefully a huge wing nut like the one on my Reed 31 i'm posting).

I know you might be new to this old vise stuff, but those kind of differences and the almost 50 year gap make the vise more rare, unique and maybe a bit tougher to use if you need it to swivel.

my reed 2c is similar to the reed 32 (my 31 is a bit smaller) and as you can see i can use my Reed 2c on the floor where i couldn't with my reed 31.

noturavgm · Jan 17, 2018

Well if I can get the guy to sell it to me (in the Craigslist cone of silence currently) I'll closely examine the casting numbers and see if it's truly a 2, or 22, or 2X or whatever.

gman007 · Jan 17, 2018

drivesitfar said:
NOTU: the one 007 posted has a patent date of 1910 and not 1867 like the one you posted and his has a swivel base and yours should have a bolt thru swivel and a nut (hopefully a huge wing nut like the one on my Reed 31 i'm posting).

I know you might be new to this old vise stuff, but those kind of differences and the almost 50 year gap make the vise more rare, unique and maybe a bit tougher to use if you need it to swivel.

my reed 2c is similar to the reed 32 (my 31 is a bit smaller) and as you can see i can use my Reed 2c on the floor where i couldn't with my reed 31.

Drives , The one that NOTU is referring to and I posted the link for belongs to Joe.Striper and is in fact has the PAT 1867 and seems to be identical, here is the post again (please check the post)

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6438513&postcount=54083

I did not want to re-post the photos without Joe's permission but I will take the liberty of posting one of them (I hope Joe does not mind)

drivesitfar · Jan 17, 2018

007: BEWARE OF THE DIRT NAP NOW CAUSE YOU POSTED UP ONE OF JOE'S without paying the VIG!! :scared:

seriously i saw your other one so guess Parker has kept that same #22 on those vises for at least 60 years despite the REVISIONS.

interesting and i'm still learning.

who knows i might like PARKER SOME DAY as much as Rock Islands and Reeds, but i doubt it.

thanks for the picture with all the risks involved. :evil:

bluebolt · Jan 17, 2018

drivesitfar said:
AKA:ALL: anybody ever post a vise part wanted on the VISE PARTS THREAD and actually find one that way? it would be great to see some of those posted either here or on that thread. i know i've got some broken vises that i'm probably holding on to just because i buy so many vises that i might need their parts some day. that said if some of you guys would buy the broken vises you come across (especially the pre WWII ones) so you'd have something to trade i know i for one would like a trade for vise parts rather than the cash so i could fix one of the other broken ones i like better. we all can't make parts like a few members can and personally i'd rather have a 100 year old replacement part in most cases than a new part.

Yeah I posted some Columbian part on there that another member got.

gman007 · Jan 17, 2018

drivesitfar said:
007: BEWARE OF THE DIRT NAP NOW CAUSE YOU POSTED UP ONE OF JOE'S without paying the VIG!!

thanks for the picture with all the risks involved.

I saw his wrath directed at you and had to change my pants after seeing that post! :lol_hitti

and I was not the one to cross him

BTW, not only the swivel base did change over time, if the info in the spread sheet is correct and also per post by Joe, the older 1867 has 3 1/2" jaws and weighs 35 lb where as the newer 1910 one has 4" jaws and weighs 44 lb

akasrick · Jan 17, 2018

bluebolt said:
Yeah I posted some Columbian part on there that another member got.

No further correspondence on my Columbian part.

akasrick

joe.striper · Jan 17, 2018

gman007 said:
I saw his wrath directed at you and had to change my pants after seeing that post! and I was not the one to cross him

BTW, not only the swivel base did change over time, if the info in the spread sheet is correct and also per post by Joe, the older 1867 has 3 1/2" jaws and weighs 35 lb where as the newer 1910 one has 4" jaws and weighs 44 lb

Hey, anyone can repost my pics anytime, just credit the source and don't claim them as yours (not saying you did) :beer:

Early Parkers are oddly sized. I have an 0000 fixed base on my shop shelf now and quite a few others. I keep finding the swivel jaw Parkers everywhere recently, don't ask me why

Got these two on Saturday. Paid $60 each. Believe it or not the swivel jaw vise is in excellent condition. I found it 2 miles from the original Parker factory in Meriden CT. Belonged to the sellers grandfather. It is a Parker 383 1/2. Based on the swivel handle location I'd bet the owner was lefty handed. If I bought 100 of these I bet 1 would be setup that way. It is an easy thing to change, 2 minutes, it is just unusual.

va.grouseman · Jan 17, 2018

Here is three #20s that are configured as through the bench and atop the bench but the same number.---2 on top, 1 through.---Two are 1914, one is 87.

And can one of you fellows decipher for me the DKG in the pat. dates on the older #20. :dunno:

GETRIDAONE · Jan 17, 2018

May - Nov - Dec "Damn Krummy Graphics"

KMScott · Jan 17, 2018

Nice parker's guys. any updates needed on the spreadsheet for the 22's just let me know. Jaw width 4"? My #22 under the table swivel is 3-3/4.

la_surge@yahoo.com · Jan 17, 2018

Built this bench for my Wilton today out of some pallets that I found in an alley block away from my house and some sheathing. the wood was very sturdy. about 60 pounds I had to use a dolly to get it into my backyard and I was still even struggling with that. I built it as an extension to my existing workbench. Enjoy

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va.grouseman · Jan 17, 2018

GETRIDAONE said:
May - Nov - Dec "Damn Krummy Graphics"

Thanks GET.---So that K or X is supposed to be an E.---Well it's obvious that it was cast first thing Monday morning or 15 minutes before quitting on Friday.---They were only human you know, and humans will drink. :beer:

---And yea, now I can see the C, but it looked like a G at first.---Wonder if flawed vises were sold as seconds?

bagged89s10 · Jan 18, 2018

Outlawmws said:
It sounds like we need pics and patent no's from the #2 you have?

I have a #3 fixed base, 4-3/4" jaws. 60 lbs:

If yours is a swivel base, it may be from a different time?

If its a through the bench swivel. certainly no newer than the teens, possibly the 20's.

Patent dates on my #3:

June 20, 1854, Patent No 11137 - steel Bars in slide;

May 28, 1867, Patent No 65114 - Handle Tensioner;

Nov 26, 1867, Patent No 71498, - Collar;

Dec 17, 1867, Patent No 72327 - Handle Tensioner;

last known catalog 1894, gone by 1901 (I'm sure someone has more catalogs, but that's my set...)

Here is a no2 I have

nicktomi · Jan 18, 2018

This thread is amazing! Thank you to all that have put in effort to make this the best vise info thread I've ever stumbled across.

My father in law has this old (?) Prentiss swivel vise with 4" jaws. From my research he's pretty lucky the swivel pin is original and works easily but I'm trying to date it for him and I'm getting no where. Is there any information on Prentiss vises with no marking aside from saying 'prentiss' on the back of the swivel jaw in small lettering?

Unruh · Jan 18, 2018

[email protected] said:
Built this bench for my Wilton today out of some pallets that I found in an alley block away from my house and some sheathing. the wood was very sturdy. about 60 pounds I had to use a dolly to get it into my backyard and I was still even struggling with that. I built it as an extension to my existing workbench. Enjoy

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is a great vise. It’ll make any bench look like a million bucks!

drivesitfar · Jan 18, 2018

Nick: can you take a few more pictures from the sides and post them. my guess is around 1920's, but the castings on the sides might give another member a better idea if they have the catalog pages saved on their laptop.

WELCOME TO GJ where we have a few guys with a vice for vises.

cheers

gman007 · Jan 18, 2018

KMScott said:
Nice parker's guys. any updates needed on the spreadsheet for the 22's just let me know. Jaw width 4"? My #22 under the table swivel is 3-3/4.

Dr. Scott: I know what I am going to suggest will initially be a big job but one of the most asked questions regarding old vises seems to be "how old is the vise". Do you think it is possible to add a column in the vise spreadsheet for a manufacturing date (range )?

If the idea is acceptable, then we can workout the details of how to divide the task between the members as not to burden anyone person.

la_surge@yahoo.com · Jan 18, 2018

Unruh said:
That is a great vise. It’ll make any bench look like a million bucks!

Definitely makes my bench look good. I think I may have an addiction. Do I need to seek professional help?

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mgmlvks · Jan 18, 2018

[email protected] said:
I think I may have an addiction. Do I need to seek professional help?

We (collectively) ARE professional help - rest easy - you are in good hands now.

ed4banger · Jan 18, 2018

Here is a 3" Rock Island Automatic. Not finished yet, still working on lettering.

nicktomi · Jan 18, 2018

drivesitfar said:
Nick: can you take a few more pictures from the sides and post them. my guess is around 1920's, but the castings on the sides might give another member a better idea if they have the catalog pages saved on their laptop.

WELCOME TO GJ where we have a few guys with a vice for vises.

cheers

Thanks! pretty foolish of me to upload one crummy pic and expect some answers. I snagged a couple more that shoe how the slide is a little chewed up and how the swivel jaw lost a small chunk at some point

KMScott · Jan 18, 2018

ed4banger said:
Here is a 3" Rock Island Automatic. Not finished yet, still working on lettering.

Really nice find there Ed4. Swivel tightening is when you clamp on something right? When you get time could you measure the square slider length aftyer the Static when closed for a max opening and the weight. Gotta add this beauty to the spreadsheet.

KMScott · Jan 18, 2018

gman007 said:
Dr. Scott: I know what I am going to suggest will initially be a big job but one of the most asked questions regarding old vises seems to be "how old is the vise". Do you think it is possible to add a column in the vise spreadsheet for a manufacturing date (range )?

If the idea is acceptable, then we can workout the details of how to divide the task between the members as not to burden anyone person.

How would this work? Yes Wilton date stamps their vises but the same model has dates over several years. The Rock Islands and possibly the Stanleys have their dates stamped. Give me your thoughts.

drivesitfar · Jan 18, 2018

Ed: that one is on my PICKING LIST FOR CERTAIN. nice job spiffing it up too!!

Nick: no worries. i still think you are in the late 1910's or 1920's for that one and it's pretty common to have pieces missing from the back of the swivel jaws cause some of the old guys used to use that part of the vise as their anvils. yep more than a few pins pounded in too.

in fact the first swivel jaw vise i bought from the 75 year old son of the original owner adamantly told me in no certain terms did the pin come out and the jaw swivel cause it was on his and his dad's bench for 80 years and he never saw it swivel.

nice looking vise and again WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!

LaSurge: i hate to say this, but if you think you have an issue buying vises (vices) and you might need help coming here is like going to tavern if you are an alcoholic. Enjoy the ride and just go with it and try to have some fun cause it's cheaper than hookers, race cars and guns to name a few.

ed4banger · Jan 18, 2018

KMScott said:
Really nice find there Ed4. Swivel tightening is when you clamp on something right? When you get time could you measure the square slider length aftyer the Static when closed for a max opening and the weight. Gotta add this beauty to the spreadsheet.

Yes, it locks swivel when handle tightened. Nut is formed as a cylinder sitting inside the annular base. Weight is 19lb. 7oz. 4" of slider behind the static part.

gman007 · Jan 18, 2018

KMScott said:
How would this work? Yes Wilton date stamps their vises but the same model has dates over several years. The Rock Islands and possibly the Stanleys have their dates stamped. Give me your thoughts.

As you have pointed out some of the vises such as Wilton, RI, Stanley have direct date indicators. But also there are many vises such as Parker, Reed etc that have patent dates. While for the latter category the date will not be exact we can give a range of 20 years from patent date, so a 1930 Parker 974 will have 1930-1950 date range, A 1910 Reed 204 will have a date range of 1910-1930.

To reflect the fact that some of these dates are exact and some are ranges and estimates, we could have one more column that might have Date Status such as

Exact (say RI, Wilton etc)
Good Estimate (vises with patent dates and 20 year range)
Fair Estimate (see below)
Best Guess (see below)

The harder cases are those of many of the vises and brands that do not have any direct indications of date.

But sometimes there are features such as say meatball vs flat nose, oil hole vs no oil hole, or even lack of a patent date and company history to give an indirect date range. For example a Parker 974 with no 1930 Pat date most likely was made between 1950 (1930 patent expiration) and 1957 (when Parker was acquired by Union), similarly a Union Parker was most likely made between 1957 to mid 60s. These later categories can be classified as

Fair Estimate
Best Guess

With the amazing amount of knowledge of the members here it might be possible based on features as well as company history to give such ranges.

Here is another example, last year I saw a vise made by Walworth (a company that I had never heard of). I found an old post on GJ

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-229201.html

stating that this company went out of business over 100 years ago, well that already gave me a good idea for the min age of the vise and that was very valuable.

Will we get the date for all or even most of the vises? The answer is mostly likely no, but for those that we can (even if it is only something in the ball park) personally I believe there is value to the information. This is my two cents and others might agree or disagree.

KMScott · Jan 18, 2018

007, How about we give you permission to edit the spreadsheet and you work on the dating. I have all I can do finding the vises and adding links and spec;s. PM me if you have the time. Thanks Kevin

mgmlvks · Jan 18, 2018

Another trip through the shop area at my place of employment - and appears that there are some other vises I had not seen before - and - got to talk with the man who blew up the MIC with a cheater bar earlier this year (Post 60784). He said he knew it was pushing the limits - but figured the handle would break - but it was the jaw that broke and that the pieces went right past his head - glad he had eye protection on. I asked what they were going to do for a vise - he said he didn't know - but was not sure why the $100 vise from the Farm Store would break so easily - I suggested his department needed to pay up and get him a real vise - and he said he thought he had pushed the purchase limits with this one. I noted - get one that won't injure you next time!

Here is his inside vise - a Columbian - Looks like a 5" or so (need to go back and measure)
UPDATE - staff says this is 4.5" Jaws

va.grouseman · Jan 18, 2018

Gman, what amazes me is how little of history some of these companies kept on their Products, their transitions phases, mergers, etc.---In earlier posts, some of the makers were asking GJ members what all they had dug up on their Co.---This lack of filed history proves that the lowly vise was the Rodney Dangerfield of tools. :sad:

bluebolt · Jan 18, 2018

ed4banger said:
Yes, it locks swivel when handle tightened. Nut is formed as a cylinder sitting inside the annular base. Weight is 19lb. 7oz. 4" of slider behind the static part.

I saw a vise base a while back that looked like that, now I know what it may have been for.

rusty65 · Jan 18, 2018

nicktomi said:
Thanks! pretty foolish of me to upload one crummy pic and expect some answers. I snagged a couple more that shoe how the slide is a little chewed up and how the swivel jaw lost a small chunk at some point

I’d personally say that vise pre dates 1911 when Prentiss patent there removal jaws and that vise appears to have cast in jaws. So some where between 1890-1910 is my ball park guess. Here’s its smaller brother with 1 3/4 jaws.

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kukko · Jan 18, 2018

gman007 said:
So this seller (who by the way thinks the model number for the vise is 248x which I believe in fact it is a 249x 4" jaw size @73 lb and which I think was the predecessor to the Superior 824 @ 85 lb) has my sympathy calling this vise @73 lb (which granted for 4" vise is pretty hefty) a GIANT.

The Parker 249X is a great vise. Not necessarily GIANT, but it is heavy and stout. I love mine!

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6726900&postcount=58760

BMR24 · Jan 18, 2018

All this talk of Parkers is making me want to post mine,
I have a 7 inch prentiss that was generously given to me, I think it's a no. 23? It's too big for the bench, so I want to make a stand for it. Problem is there is a weld repair on the slide, so I don't want to put too much money in the stand. This vise is a user and unless a new dynamic jaw falls in my lap it won't get a full restore. I was thinking of a tripod construction, but I'm hoping for other ideas. I don't think a tree stump is going to be stable enough and I want it to be somewhat portable.

454ragtop · Jan 18, 2018

BMR. looks like a swivel jaw? Have you freed it up?

drivesitfar · Jan 18, 2018

BMR: you might go look in the fabrication section and look at the vise and grinder stands thread for that big Prentiss' stand you might want to build. there are a lot of great ideas over there that you might like or make your own and post it there. good luck

Rusty: I thought Prentiss didn't make swivel jaw vises until the late 1910's, but i don't have my notes in this computer (they are in the dead one). I know Prentiss started making vises maybe just after the civil war in the 1860's so they were around for a while until Parker bought them around WWII. if you think they made swivel jaws in the 1800's do you maybe have a catalog page, or some literature?

VA: I had a guy stop by yesterday to buy one of my big cabinets i don't use and he saw a few of my vises and he was maybe 65 years old. he said he remembered seeing vises like that on his and his neighbor's farms and they weren't worth anything. also he was looking at several 150 pounders and he didn't think they were that big so wish i'd have known about vises when i was selling farms cause the barn cleanouts were never part of my deal so i never paid much attention to anything out there. Vises still don't have a lot of respect, but there are a lot more guys that know the difference between a new import and the old iron now.

Gary Indiana · Jan 18, 2018

I am offered this 4" Erie for $100. The owner does not know much about it, or about tools in general. The Erie could be from 1940's. Does anyone know this vise? Specifically, would you know whether the jaws are made with hardened inserts, or, are they a single part with the vise? All I have is these two pictures and can't see any separation of material in the jaws.

BTW, if I buy it, I thought about painting it black with old-fashioned pinstripes on sides. I really like the shape of it.

Outlawmws · Jan 18, 2018

On the topic of date ranges, Absent a direct date stamp it's more likely that catalog evidence would be the primary way to establish a likely range of dates. with Patent dates establishing an approximate starting date. (It could be several years to get into production for smaller or startup companies... For example, the Colton Patent; I don't think the holder (Colton) actually made them? I know several companies used the patent, some possibly years after it was granted if they licenced the patent later.

While the patents ran for 17 years back in the day, there is no reason to believe every company stopped stamping them after 17. The Patents are still good advertising saying "We are leaders in this field: See? we have patents!" (expired or no)

BMR24 · Jan 18, 2018

454ragtop said:
BMR. looks like a swivel jaw? Have you freed it up?

Yep it's a swiveler, it's got penetrating oil on it now, the plan is to get it fully functional and back into service. With my little home shop this will double as a sheet metal brake

Gary Indiana · Jan 18, 2018

Before and after.

$50 Craigslist purchase. Vintage Craftsman made by Columbian, missing "Craftsman" label on side. 4" jaws, 48lb. Plaster and rust cleaned up with cup wire brush on angle grinder. I might paint it later or leave as is.

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