kwoswalt99
Well-known member
^Made by millers falls. Very easy to clean up in that shape. Where did you find this I’ve been trying to find it again ever since it was originally posted a few months ago.
The VISES of Garage Journal
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va.grouseman
Well-known member
BeardedOne
Well-known member
New topic here, I hope I'm not interrupting anybody's conversation. (as a side note, why don't we get a separate vise sub forum? it would make searching a lot easier too.)
I have never seen a vise like this one, it looks like the inner jaw moves, and is supported by ways. Does anybody know who might make it? And what do ya'll think about the condition, how hard would it be to clean up?
That is a cool piece. I'd have a lot of fun cleaning up that vise.
Kwoswalt, Thanks for the ID, this guy was in Birmingham. As soon as I posted, I knew I needed to go get it, so I did. Payed $150 for it, weighs about 190 lbs, or so I was told.
Most of the rust is superficial, but it is locked up pretty tight. The "ways" are really a rectangular groove (you can see this on the right side of the pic, but not really on the left), which the inner jaw slides in, and I think they are rusted together. The nut/screw may also be rusted tight too though. Unfortunately the seller had it out in the open uncovered, at least when I was there to buy it.
I'll post some pics when I get it out of the car, and as I get it cleaned up.
Most of the rust is superficial, but it is locked up pretty tight. The "ways" are really a rectangular groove (you can see this on the right side of the pic, but not really on the left), which the inner jaw slides in, and I think they are rusted together. The nut/screw may also be rusted tight too though. Unfortunately the seller had it out in the open uncovered, at least when I was there to buy it.
I'll post some pics when I get it out of the car, and as I get it cleaned up.
wrenchguy
Well-known member
nice, real nice!
Thought I would post a few pictures of my Rock Island 594 has a date stamped 449. I would think Sept of 1944. It also has a stamp that is half ground off. Looks like USN.
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Well done!
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New topic here, I hope I'm not interrupting anybody's conversation. (as a side note, why don't we get a separate vise sub forum? it would make searching a lot easier too.)
I have never seen a vise like this one, it looks like the inner jaw moves, and is supported by ways. Does anybody know who might make it? And what do ya'll think about the condition, how hard would it be to clean up?
That would be really fun to restore.
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If you’re like me you will quickly grow to regret buying any vise missing a major part such as it’s swivel base. They accumulate quickly and it’s difficult to find the time and effort to complete all those rusty puzzles. Be patient and you will find plenty of excellent vises.
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GETRIDAONE
Well-known member
Catalog page for you.
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gman007
Well-known member
New topic here, I hope I'm not interrupting anybody's conversation. (as a side note, why don't we get a separate vise sub forum? it would make searching a lot easier too.)
I have never seen a vise like this onope, it looks like the inner jaw moves, and is supported by ways. Does anybody know who might make it? And what do ya'll think about the condition, how hard would it be to clean up?
Yost
As many others have commented this is a very nice find. I am curious about the dynamic jaw and jaw inserts! It seems while the height of the static jaw and it’s insert matches (which is a normal thing), the height of jaw insert for the dynamic jaw seems to be larger than the jaw height (the inserts protrudes beyond the jaw at the bottom) and if you notice in the catalog page that Get posted that is not the case! So I am wondering if anything is going on there or is due to angle the photo was taken?
GETRIDAONE
Well-known member
The one I have has no model number on it. My base is newer with round holes and a different locking lever. I like the square holes and handle !
ya it has some age for sure. not mine though. . was just looking for info on it! thanks man.I cant see a model on any of the pictures. so must be unmarked!
Thanks for catalogue Getridaone, information is this vise or Millers falls seems a bit scarce.
I managed to get the nut off without too much hassle, but the dynamic jaw is still stuck in its groove. I have been encouraging it with WD-40 and a 2x4, but so far its still stuck tight. An suggestions on freeing it up? Here is a picture of the bound up groove.
Gman, You are correct in your observation that the dynamic jaw insert is slightly taller than the cast iron jaw, not sure whats up with that. Both the inserts match each other, and the static insert matches the static jaw, but the cast iron dynamic jaw does not match its insert. The original picture makes this look a bit exaggerated, because the corner of the jaw is slightly rounded off, but you can also see it in the pic above. Interestingly the width of the jaw (same as the insert) is 6-7/8".
Heres a picture of the new one next to my now petite looking 4" Yost.
I managed to get the nut off without too much hassle, but the dynamic jaw is still stuck in its groove. I have been encouraging it with WD-40 and a 2x4, but so far its still stuck tight. An suggestions on freeing it up? Here is a picture of the bound up groove.
Gman, You are correct in your observation that the dynamic jaw insert is slightly taller than the cast iron jaw, not sure whats up with that. Both the inserts match each other, and the static insert matches the static jaw, but the cast iron dynamic jaw does not match its insert. The original picture makes this look a bit exaggerated, because the corner of the jaw is slightly rounded off, but you can also see it in the pic above. Interestingly the width of the jaw (same as the insert) is 6-7/8".
Heres a picture of the new one next to my now petite looking 4" Yost.
BeardedOne
Well-known member
Pretty awesome vise you have there Yost.
Perhaps making a large electrolysis tank for it and letting it get baptized for about 2 days? That might help get it loosened. Can you remove the screw now?
Perhaps making a large electrolysis tank for it and letting it get baptized for about 2 days? That might help get it loosened. Can you remove the screw now?
gman007
Well-known member
c
Thanks for catalogue Getridaone, information is this vise or Millers falls seems a bit scarce.
I managed to get the nut off without too much hassle, but the dynamic jaw is still stuck in its groove. I have been encouraging it with WD-40 and a 2x4, but so far its still stuck tight. An suggestions on freeing it up? Here is a picture of the bound up groove.
Gman, You are correct in your observation that the dynamic jaw insert is slightly taller than the cast iron jaw, not sure whats up with that. Both the inserts match each other, and the static insert matches the static jaw, but the cast iron dynamic jaw does not match its insert. The original picture makes this look a bit exaggerated, because the corner of the jaw is slightly rounded off, but you can also see it in the pic above. Interestingly the width of the jaw (same as the insert) is 6-7/8".
Heres a picture of the new one next to my now petite looking 4" Yost.
Yost
In my personal experience KROIL works a lot better than WD-40. I also have had great success with soaking the rusted and seized parts in Evapo-Rust. Many here also use heating and cooling but you have to be careful not to heat the piece too much and cooling too fast.
Ps
Again it could be the angle the photo was taken but it appears that the main screw is not exactly centered through the dynamic jaw and seems to be in fact of centered towards the bottom. The diameter of the hole in the dynamic jaw is obviously larger than the diameter of the screw so there must be some kind of nut inside the hole that the screw threads through. Have you checked inside the hole to see what is the threading mechanism and I fact it is centerd and not at an angle that would cause the screw to seize?
Ps ps
This has nothing to do with seized dynamic jaw but when I was enlarging the photo to get a better idea of the relationship between the screw and dynamic jaw at least on my iPhone it appears that there might some crack on the “foot” of the dynamic jaw just above where it slides along the rail. Is this an optical illusion or is something going on there?
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
OK, The mash gauge came in today, and I have some preliminary results for 3 of my vises. I have to do some "setup" for other vises, and I may need to have someone help hold the table down to get to full capacity, as I lift to get max tightening as I'm only 170 lbs and 5'7", so I could stand on the handle and not get there...
I did learn a couple of things right off the bat:
I mentioned I lift to tighten. I was also hurting my hands, so got a pair of heavy gloves. This and the cam lube jumped the numbers by 20% or more...
Lift to tighten was no problem on my bench mounted Parker. Lifting to tighten on the American Scale I started to lift the table. The table is a steel rolling bench that has to weigh over 200, and the AS weighs 137 by itself, there are other things on the bench so well > 300 lbs... (admittedly I didn't lift the whole bench, but it was up on 2 wheels, and the vise was clamped onto the lifted edge... Not bad for a guy "past his prime")
The real surprise was my new to me Allmatic mill vise. It has a torque multiplier, and it blew off both my everyday 4" Parker (9" handle) AND the American Scale 6" (with 13" handle) and it did it with... (Drum roll) a 2" twist grip!
It isn't even bolted down!
I'll get more vises setup over the next few days, and see where some of the others land, but as mentioned, I'll use that steel bench and it needs held down.. (Long bar across the top and someone leaning on that...)
Here is the list, in order of the "force" produced:
And a pic of the Allmatic:
Again, these are preliminary, I have more to go...
I did learn a couple of things right off the bat:
- The key grease point is under the head of the main screw
- Lithium is NOT a great high pressure grease...
- I used some 30 year old cam assembly lube and got much better results
I mentioned I lift to tighten. I was also hurting my hands, so got a pair of heavy gloves. This and the cam lube jumped the numbers by 20% or more...
Lift to tighten was no problem on my bench mounted Parker. Lifting to tighten on the American Scale I started to lift the table. The table is a steel rolling bench that has to weigh over 200, and the AS weighs 137 by itself, there are other things on the bench so well > 300 lbs... (admittedly I didn't lift the whole bench, but it was up on 2 wheels, and the vise was clamped onto the lifted edge... Not bad for a guy "past his prime")
The real surprise was my new to me Allmatic mill vise. It has a torque multiplier, and it blew off both my everyday 4" Parker (9" handle) AND the American Scale 6" (with 13" handle) and it did it with... (Drum roll) a 2" twist grip!
It isn't even bolted down!I'll get more vises setup over the next few days, and see where some of the others land, but as mentioned, I'll use that steel bench and it needs held down.. (Long bar across the top and someone leaning on that...)
Here is the list, in order of the "force" produced:
- The yellow highlights are because the Parkers Royce tested were all over the map, and I found that interesting, and in one case I was not positive of the jaw width.
- I have added data in the new columns to Royce's where I could get there.
- The handle length on my AS is in red as I don't know if the matched the length to the original
- Handle lengths are measured from the center of the main screw.
And a pic of the Allmatic:
Again, these are preliminary, I have more to go...
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gman007
Well-known member
OK, The mash gauge came in today, and I have some preliminary results for 3 of my vises. I have to do some "setup" for other vises, and I may need to have someone help hold the table down to get to full capacity, as I lift to get max tightening as I'm only 170 lbs and 5'7", so I could stand on the handle and not get there...
I did learn a couple of things right off the bat:
- The key grease point is under the head of the main screw
- Lithium is NOT a great high pressure grease...
- I used some 30 year old cam assembly lube and got much better results
I mentioned I lift to tighten. I was also hurting my hands, so got a pair of heavy gloves. This and the cam lube jumped the numbers by 20% or more...
Lift to tighten was no problem on my bench mounted Parker. Lifting to tighten on the American Scale I started to lift the table. The table is a steel rolling bench that has to weigh over 200, and the AS weighs 137 by itself, there are other things on the bench so well > 300 lbs... (admittedly I didn't lift the whole bench, but it was up on 2 wheels, and the vise was clamped onto the lifted edge... Not bad for a guy "past his prime")
The real surprise was my new to me Allmatic mill vise. It has a torque multiplier, and it blew off both my everyday 4" Parker (9" handle) AND the American Scale 6" (with 13" handle) and it did it with... (Drum roll) a 2" twist grip!
I'll get more vises setup over the next few days, and see where some of the others land, but as mentioned, I'll use that steel bench and it needs held down.. (Long bar across the top and someone leaning on that...)
Here is the list, in order of the "force" produced:
And a pic of the Allmatic:
- The yellow highlights are because the Parkers Royce tested were all over the map, and I found that interesting, and in one case I was not positive of the jaw width.
- I have added data in the new columns to Royce's where I could get there.
- The handle length on my AS is in red as I don't know if the matched the length to the original
- Handle lengths are measured from the center of the main screw.
Again, these are preliminary, I have more to go...
Outllaw Thank you for restoring my sanity! I did not want to detract from novel work that Royce had done and sound like a critic but since I am partial to Parkers and have three of them including the 974 the results of 974 were driving me nuts as the 973 1/2 appeared to have 30% higher clamping force than bigger and much heavier 974. Your result for 974 seems more reasonable.
Such anomaly points out that in addition to many variables that can effect results, for these results (even if we make the impossible assumptios that all variables ranging from what condition a vise is in to who is operating the vise and how is he operating it) to have some statistical significance even for a single vise there should be many measurements. In fact one rule of thumb states the sample size should be at least a 100 but obviously we will not even get close to it here. Never the less it is a great idea for at least different people to measure the same vise.
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GETRIDAONE
Well-known member
Yost, The only advise I have for you is keep at it. Rust seems to be the worlds best glue for snug fitting metal parts 
gman, My vise has that similar looking mold mark in the same area as Yost's vise. It appears to have held up fine while the jaws were being destroyed. Looks to me like the welding was to fill in behind the replacement jaws on my vise.
gman, My vise has that similar looking mold mark in the same area as Yost's vise. It appears to have held up fine while the jaws were being destroyed. Looks to me like the welding was to fill in behind the replacement jaws on my vise.
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honza.vosalik
Well-known member
KMScott
Well-known member
I did learn a couple of things right off the bat:
- The key grease point is under the head of the main screw
- Lithium is NOT a great high pressure grease...
- I used some 30 year old cam assembly lube and got much better results
Here is the list, in order of the "force" produced:
- The yellow highlights are because the Parkers Royce tested were all over the map, and I found that interesting, and in one case I was not positive of the jaw width.
- I have added data in the new columns to Royce's where I could get there.
- The handle length on my AS is in red as I don't know if the matched the length to the original
- Handle lengths are measured from the center of the main screw.
Nice data there Outlaw, if you want consistently then I would be happy to build a fixture that clamps on the handle over the meatball with a 1-1/4 hex or so where a torque wrench or a long cheater bar could be used for the same pull or push. If the owner of the pressure gauge can wait. I already see a fixture in my head that would work and not hurt any of your vise's handles. The grease is a must in my opinion. Kind of fun to do stuff like this. It would be interesting to see how a Wilton PowRscrew vise compares since it has the hydraulic Piston and claims to have 3 tons of clamp force. I do not think your Allmatic with the torque multiplier is built the same but maybe.
LoganMitchell36
New member
Just looking through the internet for some information on the AMERICAN chain co vise and i have one. I bought it at a roadside yard sale and haggled the guy down on it (I paid less than a hundred) it’s almost exactly the same. Says ACCO 20 Bridgeport Conn USA on one side and MFG BY American chain co inc. the old guy I bought it from didn’t know any of it’s history so I assume he bought it to resale. Also looking for some history on this beautiful vise if anyone knows anything
Some pictures of it including what looks like the original screw nut
Some pictures of it including what looks like the original screw nut
Yost, The only advise I have for you is keep at it. Rust seems to be the worlds best glue for snug fitting metal parts
gman, My vise has that similar looking mold mark in the same area as Yost's vise. It appears to have held up fine while the jaws were being destroyed. Looks to me like the welding was to fill in behind the replacement jaws on my vise.
Hey that one looks just like mine! but nicer, thanks for posting the pictures!
I was thinking that the mark near the foot on mine was from a rogue angle grinder, but it wraps all around the corners, which means this cant be the cause. Seeing Getridaone's makes me very sure its a mold defect. Odd to have the same mold mark and uneven jaws.
Gman, the screw looks like its sagging because I took the nut out. You can see the bronze nut is sitting on top of the vise in the second picture. I have now taken the screw out too, so its just the dynamic jaw stuck in the slide/groove now.
I bought some PB blaster today because it was really cheap (cheaper than WD-40 even). I'll try this and escalating force for a few days then graduate to something else, probably chemical like phosphoric acid, or Evapo-Rust. I really beat on it today though, so I'm not sure how much more I'm comfortable giving it.
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That is a great idea! I’m happy for my little “mash” gauge as Outlaw named it to continue its adventure for a while longer.
AngryBeaver
Well-known member
Picked up a unicorn last night. Might be my new favorite vise.
Hollands 53 1/2 H
93 lbs. 4-1/2” jaw width. 5” opening. 5” throat depth. Reversible pipe jaws. Swivel base that isn’t a thru bench mount.
Hollands 53 1/2 H
93 lbs. 4-1/2” jaw width. 5” opening. 5” throat depth. Reversible pipe jaws. Swivel base that isn’t a thru bench mount.
gman007
Well-known member
AB
That is indeed a great score
Man you wasted no time stripping the paint off it! There is a listing for the 53 1/2 H in the spread sheet but has no stats, you might want to ask Dr Scott to enter the stats for it.
BTW
Even though the spread sheet does not have the stats there is a link with a photo and interestingly the vise in the photo seems to have the exact same red color! So I am wondering if that was the original color.
AngryBeaver
Well-known member
He asked me to get the stats. The 80 lb listing I’m guessing was based off the 53 that was 78 lbs from a 1920’s ad. Can’t find any info on the 53-1/2 H on any of the old ads
under the red was black. Under the black was Grey. This vise doesn’t look good red and highly doubt red would have been an original color
under the red was black. Under the black was Grey. This vise doesn’t look good red and highly doubt red would have been an original color
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
I'm in!
I think though that there would be two force numbers to compare:
- a set torqued value, which would be the "efficiency" of the torqued value, and
- the "peak" of what you can get with the original handle.
The Almatic is a mechanical torque multiplier.
I sold one on EBay in perfect shape and it had Wilton 3 1/2" jaws and it only went to $75.
gman007
Well-known member
That is pretty low for a Reed 403 1/2 on eBay but sometimes the right bidders are not there or miss the vise. I have seen a single bid for around $130-$140 for a 3” and 3.5” Wilton bullets but such situations are more exception than the norm.
454ragtop
Well-known member
va.grouseman
Well-known member
Outlaw, how does an Almatic work?---Similar to a torque wrench?
I guess am going to have to mellow my thoughts on re-painted vises. Just bought one of the nicest condition vises I have seen in person. I wonder if they spent more time painting it than they actually used it? In real life, it looks much better than this photo that was posted. Looks so good that I do not even have to hide from it from my wife!
First looking at the sales photo, I thought it was missing the swivel base then realized the paint can was blocking the rear bolt hole/boss. It is a Columbian monster #506 with 6 inch wide jaws.
First looking at the sales photo, I thought it was missing the swivel base then realized the paint can was blocking the rear bolt hole/boss. It is a Columbian monster #506 with 6 inch wide jaws.
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va.grouseman
Well-known member
RB, I think it is still missing the swivel base.---But they can be found.---And should be for one that nice.
Getridaone, I found a more accurate catalog entry for the Millers Falls vise.
Here's the link where you can find it in the 1912 catalog: http://toolemera.com/Manufacturers%20&%20Merchants/Mfg.%20jklmn/mfg.-millersfall.html
Here's the link where you can find it in the 1912 catalog: http://toolemera.com/Manufacturers%20&%20Merchants/Mfg.%20jklmn/mfg.-millersfall.html
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
It has a primary main screw, and a secondary mechanism that multiplies the pressure.
https://www.dapra.com/workholding/allmatic/HD/HD.html
