Craftsman 5198 questions

brodband · Nov 7, 2018

Hello.

First post. Why? Because google said this forum is good for this kind of thing lol. My dad just gave me this old Craftsman vice that he got from his dad.

Best I was able to come up with is that its a 5198, barely visible through the paint.

I want to look into getting it restored and maybe find the replacement handle if someone is willing to part with one to complete this.

Where is the date stamp supposed to be at?

Also, this sucker is heavy. I haven't weighed it but it has to be at least 100 pounds lol.

Cant post pics until a post count of 5.

Rileysan · Nov 7, 2018

Welcome to GJ and congrats on acquiring the holy grail of Craftsman vises!

There is a thread dedicated to this vise and includes lots of information. Unfortunately, I'm on my phone so can't search for the thread for you but I have no doubt someone here will. I'm looking forward to seeing your photos!

Briqn

brodband · Nov 7, 2018

Rileysan said:
Welcome to GJ and congrats on acquiring the holy grail of Craftsman vises!

There is a thread dedicated to this vise and includes lots of information. Unfortunately, I'm on my phone so can't search for the thread for you but I have no doubt someone here will. I'm looking forward to seeing your photos!

Briqn

I'll see if I can locate it. Thanks!

B17E1943 · Nov 7, 2018

Squarely at the top of this forum. :thumbup:

Provincial · Nov 7, 2018

Your'e welcome!

brodband · Nov 7, 2018

I found the date stamp. Month was really hard to figure out. It’s either a 1 or a 7 but the year is 56. Unfortunately I found a crack... it’s on the backside of the large flat spot that is used for hammering stuff. Right against where the date stamp is found. I’m hoping it can be fixed.

brodband · Nov 7, 2018

Also, before I joined this forum I was researching this vice and there was a Member with the location of the fairhope Alabama area which is only about 45 minutes from me who I think restored one. Wish I could find that thread again, maybe that guy could help me.

bluebolt · Nov 7, 2018

brodband said:
I found the date stamp. Month was really hard to figure out. It’s either a 1 or a 7 but the year is 56. Unfortunately I found a crack... it’s on the backside of the large flat spot that is used for hammering stuff. Right against where the date stamp is found. I’m hoping it can be fixed.

There is no "anvil" on a 5198, if it has been hammered there that is why it is cracked.

brodband · Nov 7, 2018

bluebolt said:
There is no "anvil" on a 5198, if it has been hammered there that is why it is cracked.

Gotcha, that makes sense. I can upload pics after this post. Is there any specific way to repair the crack?

brodband · Nov 7, 2018

https://flic.kr/p/QzTmnY https://www.flickr.com/photos/144180477@N08/

https://flic.kr/p/NXsrP2 https://www.flickr.com/photos/144180477@N08/

https://flic.kr/p/NXsrLg https://www.flickr.com/photos/144180477@N08/

https://flic.kr/p/QzTmij https://www.flickr.com/photos/144180477@N08/

https://flic.kr/p/2cE83V7 https://www.flickr.com/photos/144180477@N08/

https://flic.kr/p/2cJywXV https://www.flickr.com/photos/144180477@N08/

thehorse13 · Nov 7, 2018

There are ways to repair the crack. It doesn't appear bad or from sledge hammering abuse on the vise body. If you remove the slide, does the crack run along the underside?

brodband · Nov 7, 2018

thehorse13 said:
There are ways to repair the crack. It doesn't appear bad or from sledge hammering abuse on the vise body. If you remove the slide, does the crack run along the underside?

I haven't had a chance to take it apart yet. I'll let you know and get pics when I do.

brodband · Nov 7, 2018

Is there a thread that shows how to correctly dissassemble this vice?

bluebolt · Nov 7, 2018

That crack is thankfully pretty small, I will let the experts tell you the best way.

That is a late one going by both the date and the raised Craftsman lettering instead of the oval Craftsman badge that is riveted on the earlier ones.

Sure looks like the stamping is 5198, to be 100% sure measure the width of the jaws, should be 5" even.

And by the way, YOU ****! That is one of the rarest vises out there, I think only about 10 or less have turned up so far.

Shiftless · Nov 7, 2018

Anytime you want to trade, just let all of us know and you can go home with a few Wilton bullets or Reeds or ???

Here is a pic of my 5197

brodband · Nov 7, 2018

bluebolt said:
That crack is thankfully pretty small, I will let the experts tell you the best way.

That is a late one going by both the date and the raised Craftsman lettering instead of the oval Craftsman badge that is riveted on the earlier ones.

Sure looks like the stamping is 5198, to be 100% sure measure the width of the jaws, should be 5" even.

And by the way, YOU ****! That is one of the rarest vises out there, I think only about 10 or less have turned up so far.

lol, yeah looks to be 5"

https://flic.kr/p/29Ym9jS https://www.flickr.com/photos/144180477@N08/

I had no idea they were so rare. Why is that?

brodband · Nov 7, 2018

Shiftless said:
Anytime you want to trade, just let all of us know and you can go home with a few Wilton bullets or Reeds or ???

Here is a pic of my 5197

Couldn't do it. Father hand me down and all.

wrenchguy · Nov 7, 2018

as far with the crack, if it ain't dragging on the slide leave it alone. if ur a collector u'll prolly keep it, if not unload it 4 some operating capital. good luck. as a collector i'd like a chance at it.

never mind, didn't see the dad stuff. great gift.

Shiftless · Nov 7, 2018

brodband said:
Couldn't do it. Father hand me down and all.

I’m glad you are honoring tradition. Lots of younger guys don’t do that. :beer:

Unless you are already an accomplished metal worker and painter, you might consider putting that project aside until you gain experience restoring lesser examples from the vise world.
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brodband · Nov 7, 2018

Shiftless said:
I’m glad you are honoring tradition. Lots of younger guys don’t do that.

Anything my dad gives me I hang onto. Ultimately I'd like to do my best to bring this thing back to life, to the best of my ability so that one day I can tell my kids the story on it and pass it down.

Just have to figure out how to disassemble it first

brodband · Nov 7, 2018

Shiftless said:
I’m glad you are honoring tradition. Lots of younger guys don’t do that.

Unless you are already an accomplished metal worker and painter, you might consider putting that project aside until you gain experience restoring lesser examples from the vise world.
.
.

I'm a gun guy. Haven't really restored anything crazy. I would almost be willing to find the best person that could tackle the restoration and pay them to do so if it came down to it just so I would know it was done right. I just don't know enough about this kind of stuff yet to figure that part out yet.

Maui · Nov 7, 2018

If you want a true expert to bring that vise back to pristine condition, you should contact KMScott. He has provided dozens of examples of vises he has restored in the various vise threads on this website. And he’s a helluva nice guy too.

Maui

brodband · Nov 7, 2018

Maui said:
If you want a true expert to bring that vise back to pristine condition, you should contact KMScott. He has provided dozens of examples of vises he has restored in the various vise threads on this website. And he’s a helluva nice guy too.

Maui

thanks bud, I may shoot him a PM.

Shiftless · Nov 8, 2018

There are several guys who restore vises for others. Check out the main vise pages if you haven’t yet done so. I’ve done a few but I don’t consider myself an expert by any means.

Do you plan to use your 5198 or just put it up on a shelf?

More than a few guys have done beautiful museum quality restorations and then realize that they couldn’t touch their vises for fear of marring the finish.

I bet you could do it yourself. Just the shipping back and forth on such a big vise to a restorer will run you hundreds of dollars.

Pick up another vise in similar shape, take it apart, follow suggestions from the guys on the vise pages and go to it for good practice and to build confidence.

You’ll have the satisfaction of a job well done and will be able to tell your own children and grandchildren about how you “fixed it up”. It doesn’t have to be perfect.

Just my opinion...
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brodband · Nov 8, 2018

Shiftless said:
There are several guys who restore vises for others. Check out the main vise pages if you haven’t yet done so. I’ve done a few but I don’t consider myself an expert by any means.

Do you plan to use your 5198 or just put it up on a shelf?

More than a few guys have done beautiful museum quality restorations and then realize that they couldn’t touch their vises for fear of marring the finish.

I bet you could do it yourself. Just the shipping back and forth to a restorer will run you hundreds of dollars.

Pick up another vise in similar shape, take it apart, follow suggestions from the guys on the vise pages and go to it for good practice and to build confidence.

You’ll have the satisfaction of a job well done and will be able to tell your own children and grandchildren about how you “fixed it up”. It doesn’t have to be perfect.

Just my opinion...
.
.
.

I plan to use it. I basically want to bring it back to serviceable/great condition. I don't plan to abuse it by any means. I sent a PM off to that KMScott guy going to see what he thinks. If it ends up being some crazy amount of money, even though I get a huge discount on shipping items via FedEx next day, I will likely tackle the project myself.

Shiftless · Nov 8, 2018

I have met KMScott and spent time looking around in his shop. He is a heck of a nice guy and does excellent restoration and fabrication work. His forte is milling new jaw inserts. They are better than those provided new on the best vises in the world. That’s something very few of us can do.
Cleaning, painting, and lubricating is something most anybody can do. I encourage you to DIY.

Rileysan · Nov 8, 2018

Are you starting to get the feeling you're one of the most admired new member since ... Ever?!?

As for your question about rarity. I don't think I've heard a satisfactory answer.

A Craftsman 5198 IS a rare vise. Unlike earlier models which had counterparts branded by a manufacturer with which you could borrow parts, this model was uniquely made for Sears and only Sears. Finding parts is very difficult as you need another Craftsman 5198 to borrow from (or have parts made). And as you have heard, only a handful have been documented here on GJ.

You have a gem and you might be surprised how much people are willing to pay to have that vise, even in that condition!

I wish you luck with your restoration project and please keep us updated!

Brian

wrenchguy · Nov 8, 2018

brodband said:
I will likely tackle the project myself.

u should go with this beings the personal family issue. there's plenty help here :thumbup:

problem i see is when u get it done it'll be 2nice to use :thumbup:

good luck and keep us posted.

bluebolt · Nov 10, 2018

Glad to hear you are keeping it and going to use it. Do a simple restoration, clean, paint, lube. You can always repaint it after a few more years of use.

Disassembly is fairly easy. Just unscrew the sliding part (the dynamic jaw) from the stationary part (the static jaw). If it gets hard toward the end screw it back in and examine the top of the slide for any mushrooming from being hit with a hammer. Lightly file or sand the edge and try again.

The main screw is held to the dynamic by a collar, flip the dynamic upside down and you should see the collar. It should have a set screw. Remove the set screw, squirt some penetrant down there and let it sit. After sitting for a bit see if you can get the collar off.

To take the swivel base off loosen the swivel lockdown all the way until it comes off.
Flip the static upside down and remove the center bolt. The swivel should come off easily now.

The screws for the jaw inserts are specific for that vise and have a special taper. DONT LOSE THEM! The same goes for all the other parts.

I see you are missing the handle. That is not too hard to get made but if you want to go back to original someone will have to make the Art Deco tapered ends for the handle on a lathe.

POST UP MORE PICTURES! We love pictures!

What area of the country are you from? There are several vise restorers out there, if you are lucky one of them is close by.

That vise is valuable because it is rare and desirable. Not a lot of 5198 sales have happened so its hard to put a number on it but I think it's around $300-to $400 in it's present condition.

BFBOB · Nov 12, 2018

Severe vise envy going on here. I've never seen ANY of the 519X's in the wild, and here you come up with the crowning glory right off the bat! :bowdown:

brodband · Nov 12, 2018

bluebolt said:
Glad to hear you are keeping it and going to use it. Do a simple restoration, clean, paint, lube. You can always repaint it after a few more years of use.

Disassembly is fairly easy. Just unscrew the sliding part (the dynamic jaw) from the stationary part (the static jaw). If it gets hard toward the end screw it back in and examine the top of the slide for any mushrooming from being hit with a hammer. Lightly file or sand the edge and try again.

The main screw is held to the dynamic by a collar, flip the dynamic upside down and you should see the collar. It should have a set screw. Remove the set screw, squirt some penetrant down there and let it sit. After sitting for a bit see if you can get the collar off.

To take the swivel base off loosen the swivel lockdown all the way until it comes off.
Flip the static upside down and remove the center bolt. The swivel should come off easily now.

The screws for the jaw inserts are specific for that vise and have a special taper. DONT LOSE THEM! The same goes for all the other parts.

I see you are missing the handle. That is not too hard to get made but if you want to go back to original someone will have to make the Art Deco tapered ends for the handle on a lathe.

POST UP MORE PICTURES! We love pictures!

What area of the country are you from? There are several vise restorers out there, if you are lucky one of them is close by.

That vise is valuable because it is rare and desirable. Not a lot of 5198 sales have happened so its hard to put a number on it but I think it's around $300-to $400 in it's present condition.

Thanks for the info, I went ahead and removed the dynamic jaw, just threaded right out. I was able to inspect that crack a little closer and it doesn't appear to go to the underside or anything so nothing really major.

Been busy lately with other stuff so this is going to be a slow process.

Needs a good cleaning, has many old dead spider remnants. I hate spiders lol.

I am from Pensacola, Florida.

Side note: Whatever the part that the handle goes through is called... Is that entire piece supposed to have any up/down play? Mine moves around quite a bit.

Pics:

https://flic.kr/p/P6NPWv https://www.flickr.com/photos/144180477@N08/

https://flic.kr/p/2bKTPF1 https://www.flickr.com/photos/144180477@N08/

https://flic.kr/p/P6NQ8c https://www.flickr.com/photos/144180477@N08/

https://flic.kr/p/2bKTPGJ https://www.flickr.com/photos/144180477@N08/

brodband · Nov 12, 2018

Also, yes I am in need of a replacement handle. If I cannot find original, I would like someone who could replicate it as best as possible.

Rileysan · Nov 12, 2018

brodband said:
Side note: Whatever the part that the handle goes through is called... Is that entire piece supposed to have any up/down play? Mine moves around quite a bit.

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That is know as the "main screw". The nose and the screw are one piece that has been machined to that shape. There will always be a lot of play when the dynamic jaw is removed from the base but the important thing is the amount of play when it's assembled.

I don't own that model of vise so can't tell you exactly how to remove the main screw from the dynamic jaw, but it's likely something simple, like a collar with a set screw that will be visible from underneath. Take it apart and look at the front of the dynamic jaw in the area where the nose of the main screw was turning, and check for wear. Better yet, take more photos of that area and post here!

And yes, you will need to have a handle made to fit your vise. I'm sure someone here will be happy to take photos and dimensions for you.

Brian

brodband · Nov 12, 2018

Rileysan said:
That is know as the "main screw". The nose and the screw are one piece that has been machined to that shape. There will always be a lot of play when the dynamic jaw is removed from the base but the important thing is the amount of play when it's assembled.

I don't own that model of vise so can't tell you exactly how to remove the main screw from the dynamic jaw, but it's likely something simple, like a collar with a set screw that will be visible from underneath. Take it apart and look at the front of the dynamic jaw in the area where the nose of the main screw was turning, and check for wear. Better yet, take more photos of that area and post here!

And yes, you will need to have a handle made to fit your vise. I'm sure someone here will be happy to take photos and dimensions for you.

Brian

I think I figured out the "play" part. On the long threaded part there is a collar with a set screw. I just need to losen the screw and turn that collar a bit more to tighten it up a bit and stop the play. I removed it for now and removed the actual nose/screw.

I spoke to my dad and he said he will see if he can find the handle. He did say that he always remembered it only having one end still in tact so it would always fall out.

brodband · Nov 12, 2018

https://flic.kr/p/2cS1pAX https://www.flickr.com/photos/144180477@N08/

https://flic.kr/p/2cS1pzK https://www.flickr.com/photos/144180477@N08/

https://flic.kr/p/QJgcSE https://www.flickr.com/photos/144180477@N08/

https://flic.kr/p/2cS1psv https://www.flickr.com/photos/144180477@N08/

https://flic.kr/p/QJgcMQ https://www.flickr.com/photos/144180477@N08/

Rileysan · Nov 13, 2018

It looks like there's very little wear. Other than neglect, it appears to have lived an easy life.

Have you thought about how to remove the rust? I happen to prefer electrolysis but there are other ways. I think there's a really nice vise under all that rust!

Brian

brodband · Nov 13, 2018

Rileysan said:
It looks like there's very little wear. Other than neglect, it appears to have lived an easy life.

Have you thought about how to remove the rust? I happen to prefer electrolysis but there are other ways. I think there's a really nice vise under all that rust!

Brian

I honestly have no idea where to begin. Can I do electrolysis myself?

drivesitfar · Nov 13, 2018

BB: first off WELCOME TO GJ!! i just saw you started a thread of your dad's and maybe granddad's old Craftsman 5198 which I'm happy to hear you are keeping in the family.

here's the link to a thread I started a year or so ago where we were trying to figure out who made these great old vises for Sears and at the top of the list is Rock Island vise company.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=351100&highlight=craftsman+5198

I don't know if your sleeve on your main screw was threaded, but i'm guessing it was cause the ones I've taken apart were. was your sleeve threaded?

good luck and ask questions if you have any. also don't use it as an anvil or a press and get a piece of RR track to beat on instead of that or any good vise.

cheers

BFBOB · Nov 13, 2018

brodband said:
I honestly have no idea where to begin. Can I do electrolysis myself?

ABSOLUTELY!!
And it's my favorite rust removal method too. All you need is a plastic trash can, some scrap steel, a handful of washing soda and a battery charger.

Several threads here go into great detail which you should look up. VERY simple and VERY effective.

wrenchguy · Nov 13, 2018

An idea 4 a handle may be like i did to this ridgid. Its original was in bad shape and i made 1 with threaded ends and used acorn nuts.

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