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Wisdom of crowds 1: "big box" vs "modules"

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1720blue

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Feb 29, 2016
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Upstate NY
I'm in the early stages of planning a garage / hobby building. As I look at the various purposes I'd like the building to serve and the unique space needed for each, I'm coming up with something like 4000 sq feet of space.

What I'm wondering about are the pros/cons of building a single huge box (50x80, say, and then putting up internal partition walls), or planning this building as several modules (say, a 40x64 main heated garage with attached 30x30 heated woodworking shop and attached unconditioned 24x24 storage room), the idea being that the modules are a natural partitioning of the space into dissimilar uses, and that the end result is more aesthetic with higher WAF (wife acceptance factor). Cost is probably higher than a single big box, though.

Thoughts?
 
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Falcon67

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Merkel, TX
Might depend on the land layout. My granddad had 3 shops and a couple of "out buildings" on about an acre (with the house), in a grove of cedar trees, etc. Not necessarily setup as separate operations - the nicer unit had a wood stove and the beer fridge. Rest where dirt floors and work areas. I thought it was fun, as a kid.

You could arrange the buildings based on expected use (most use closer to house or some such) with landscaped paths between.

The big barn with partitions is likely to be cheaper from the shell standpoint. One and done. It's also way more flexible for space allocation and changes that will come up.
 
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tonyciambrone

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Northern Illinois
1720blue said:
Everybody's a comedian... :bounce:

Here's my first pass at space needs:
Click to expand...


I'd say depends on what you can afford. It would at least be nice to keep the woodshop separate from everything else in an ideal world. Keeps the sawdust fairly confined. But, I imagine it is much cheaper to get a single pole barn built and add a well sealed partion wall. But then, what does it do to the layout of the rest of the space?

My shop is in an L shape, and a lot of times, I wish it wasn't.
 
S

Skiff Builder

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Southern NJ Coast
1720blue said:
I'm in the early stages of planning a garage / hobby building. As I look at the various purposes I'd like the building to serve and the unique space needed for each, I'm coming up with something like 4000 sq feet of space.

What I'm wondering about are the pros/cons of building a single huge box (50x80, say, and then putting up internal partition walls), or planning this building as several modules (say, a 40x64 main heated garage with attached 30x30 heated woodworking shop and attached unconditioned 24x24 storage room), the idea being that the modules are a natural partitioning of the space into dissimilar uses, and that the end result is more aesthetic with higher WAF (wife acceptance factor). Cost is probably higher than a single big box, though.

Thoughts?[/QUOTE

In looking at a modular approach, I would first ask what would the roof lines of your three boxes look like.

Maybe look at changing the dims of the wood/storage areas. Come closer to the 64' main box length.
Ex: wood 24x40, storage 24x24.

Does this all have to be on one level?
Click to expand...
 
OP
1

1720blue

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Upstate NY
LS6 Tommy said:
Sounds like it's going to be a great space. Anyone who's into beekeeping is OK with me. I'd love to try it, but the local bears don't make it possible. :lol_hitti

Tommy
Click to expand...

Electric fence is the ticket. Seriously, a few strands of 16 gauge aluminum wire, as flimsy as that is, hooked up to a good fence charger will keep them at bay. My hives were wiped out by a bear on multiple visits. I put up electric and they’ve been safe since.
 
OP
1

1720blue

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Feb 29, 2016
Messages
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Location
Upstate NY
Skiff Builder said:
1720blue said:
I'm in the early stages of planning a garage / hobby building. As I look at the various purposes I'd like the building to serve and the unique space needed for each, I'm coming up with something like 4000 sq feet of space.

What I'm wondering about are the pros/cons of building a single huge box (50x80, say, and then putting up internal partition walls), or planning this building as several modules (say, a 40x64 main heated garage with attached 30x30 heated woodworking shop and attached unconditioned 24x24 storage room), the idea being that the modules are a natural partitioning of the space into dissimilar uses, and that the end result is more aesthetic with higher WAF (wife acceptance factor). Cost is probably higher than a single big box, though.

Thoughts?[/QUOTE

In looking at a modular approach, I would first ask what would the roof lines of your three boxes look like.

Maybe look at changing the dims of the wood/storage areas. Come closer to the 64' main box length.
Ex: wood 24x40, storage 24x24.

Does this all have to be on one level?
Click to expand...

I’m thinking different wall heights for the main garage and the attached modules. Time to call my two semesters of mechanical drawing into service after lo, these 45 years since and sketch something up to show you all.

the building dOoesn’t need to be one level; in fact, as the site is gently sloped upwards from where the main vehicle and main entrance would be a multi- level design could be advantageous and attractive. Does that push me towards conventional poured foundation and stick built vs pole building? Can a pole building be erected on a poured foundation and is there any advantage to that kind of hybrid building system?
Click to expand...
 
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Bad67300

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Mar 23, 2008
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Midwest
I used to have one single, large 3700 sq. ft. shop. Sold that property and moved onto another with 3 medium shops totaling about 7000 sq. ft. Quite frankly, wish I only had one large one again for a couple reasons:

1. Higher utilities
2. More maintenance to deal with three instead of one.
3. More time walking between all of them when working on projects.
4. Either have to have multiples of tools so each shop is equipped, or again tracking tools down between the shops.

I'll eventually get it figured out and more efficient, but there's been plenty of frustration - mainly due to #4! - over the last couple years.
 
L

LeeG

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Phoenix, AZ
One box. You think you know now how you will divide up the space, but once you are in it, you will likely change your mind about something or decide you need more area for one part or another. I’d start with a big empty shell, putting things where I think they should go, then once I was happy with the flow, partition the space with stick framed walls. If the roof is high enough, you can use the area above as your cold storage, and gain more usable space.

My FIL has 2 shops, and although he usually has the right tool for a job, it is seldom in the shop he is working in when he needs it.
 
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matt_i

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SE Michigan
I think its going to be less $ to build a single-plane large shop.

When you mention the sloped lot I see a lot of downsides to cost...having to measure out and design the layout so it "fits" the landscape not only overhead/plan view but in elevations....having potential staircases between the levels, even if its only a step or three. The builder is going to have a lot of time detailing out flashings and other pieces of the puzzle in making adjoining buildings "fit". Having stormwater management issues, eventually something heavy is going to need to go from the lowest to the highest floor, and without a single level plane it will have to get loaded into a pickup (etc) and driven uphill then unloaded again.

I think the overall look of the multi-buildings would be very cool and eccentric in a good way. I knew one guy who built 4 garages like that, one at a time, all connected, on a slight downslope, as more money became available. I think that scenario would be tough from an electrical standpoint as everything gets farther and farther away from the circuit panel and the runs get longer and longer.
 
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bad_idea

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Pasquotank, NC
I would want an attached garage for the storage of the four cars and a work space/storage for house maintenance. One detached shop for everything else. Build a large box with plenty of height. A second floor for storage, man cave, and office over about 70% of it. Build interior walls as you go. The size you want for a space/function may change as you use the space. It's a 4000 sq ft workshop, it will be hard to pretty that up for the wife. I say own it - make it look like the warehouse it will be. I think an attached garage for her to park her car in will make her overlook the hideous appearance of the shop.
 
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firebirdparts

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Kingsport, TN
Biggest difference I see is scope management. If you built it all yourself, then it's easier to build yourself using modules. If you wanted to hire the building and finish it yourself, then that's going to be cheaper with a single initial big box.

structurally, there is considerable benefit to smaller buildings vs. a divided big building, but it's not so overwhelming that you'd assume smaller buildings are actually cheaper.

Conceptually you really just have a huge car shop and a really pretty big wood shop plus a bunch of closets. I would play around with laying that out. That would be fun for me.
 
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bdbecker

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Iowa
Whether it's separate buildings or one building divided into smaller areas, it would be worthwhile to do some reading on "systematic layout planning" when trying to determine the best layout. It's mostly applied in industrial environments, but it definitely can have an application for your home shop. A lot of this process is just a documented version of the common sense method we all use when determining what the best layout should be, but what it really helps with is revealing alternative layouts you may not have considered otherwise.

https://www.resourcesystemsconsulting.com/2006/10/22/simplified-systematic-layout-planning/
https://www.hpcinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/RMA-1146-SLP-Overview-Mfg.pdf
 
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larry_g

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oregon
On a smaller scale I did the separate areas. The main dirty shop, The 'clean' machine shop, and an upper room that is my wife's area. I also think you must be unique among us in that you can live with a 24x24 storage. Use that as the winter car storage, and the 40x64 as storage. It will end up that way if your normal. Accept that now.

You can look at my build below to see how I incorporated the second floor area, your mancave? My old shop was a pole building with a stepped roof that allowed entrance into the upper floor from the outside via ramp from the upper lawn.

lg
no neat sig line
 
L

lowside67

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Sep 29, 2017
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Vancouver, BC
1720blue said:
Here's my first pass at space needs:
Click to expand...
39x20 or 780sf for basically your automotive tools and a hoist? Seems like that could easily be done in 20x20 with a hoist in the middle and tools in a big "U" around the outside. A 160sf pantry closet?

It seems like you could easily go down that list and probably get your 4000sf building to be 3000sf without losing any of the spaces (maybe only one "extra winter parking/reserve workspace?") by just tightening up and being more efficient. There are also a lot of things on that list that probably could coexist (ie a canning kitchen is probably only used a few times a year - that could easily be mobile and then be a reserve parking spot in winter?)

-Mark
 
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nikerret

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Kansas
1720blue said:
Everybody's a comedian... :bounce:

Here's my first pass at space needs:
Click to expand...

I think you’re closer to 4,500 sq’. Always add space for things you may have miscalculated. I figure then add 10-15%, when possible. You only want to build once and I’ve never heard sad song stories about shops having too much space. Except trying to heat and cool them.
 
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