Above 1200 Sq/FT The ASYLUM - Happy 40th Birthday to Me! (Est. 2005)

Omphaloskeptic · Oct 7, 2011

Shopnut, if you want to make points big time with Mrs. 'Guitar Geek' Shopnut, plan a nice road trip up to Pennsylvania Dutch country (Bird-in-Hand, Paradise, ***********) with a side-trip to Nazareth, Pa.. Of course, all Martin owners know it as the Mecca of the stringed instrument; home of C. F. Martin Co.. :bowdown:

Call ahead to reserve a spot on the factory tours they conduct. Years ago, I made the pilgrimage to yon hallowed ground, and even though I missed the last tour of the day, they were kind enough to give me, the wife and daughter a guided tour of their facility. :thumbup:

Two cautionaries:
1) Don't miss the exit for Nazareth or you'll wind up in New Jersey! :shocking:

2) Take the checkbook away from G.G. or you'll spend $ big time when she waltzes into their 'Custom Shop'! :shocking:

"Forewarned is Forearmed!"

Sorry for the detour.... and now folks, back to our on-going thread. LOL

shopnut · Oct 7, 2011

Omphaloskeptic said:
Shopnut, if you want to make points big time with Mrs. 'Guitar Geek' Shopnut, plan a nice road trip up to Pennsylvania Dutch country (Bird-in-Hand, Paradise, ***********) with a side-trip to Nazareth, Pa.

Extra points you say. Hmmmmm, maybe we can squeeze a bike trip up there before it gets too cold. She was just saying Monday that she wanted to ride somewhere now that it has cooled down around here. And I know she would love to tour that factory. Being on the bikes would also limit the amount of stuff she buys there too. I say "limit" only because we've taken two 3K rides with a baby Taylor strapped on the back seat of her bike. She gets some looks on the highway, for sure!

Thanks for the suggestions - it sounds like a fun trip.

shopnut · Oct 10, 2011

ANOTHER SECTION OF CEILING IS COMPLETE…

Well, I thought there was nothing stopping me from installing the insulation and ceiling vinyl, but I had forgotten about the air line and framing that needed attention first. The air line was a simple matter of removing the old 1/2” cross-over line (hanging down in the picture) and switching to the 3/4” perimeter line.

With that cross-over line removed along the peak I could install the remaining framing to support the vinyl. The arrows in the overall view point to the new 12’ 2x4” and 2x3” supports while the close-up view shows a little jig I made early on to space the short 2x3’s up exactly one board thickness. Screws are left slightly loose so the clamp can squeeze the existing purlin tightly.

So it was on to the insulation. After doing all the other little jobs, I got a late start on this one. I didn’t finish until 2am, but I wanted to get the insulation work done before going to bed.

LESSON LEARNED: It was raining outside and particularly humid inside as a result, so my safety glasses kept steaming up during this job. From time to time, I needed to wipe them off and found out later the glass fibers from the insulation played havoc with the polycarbonate lenses - bummer, scratched them real good too. I was getting so tired that I didn’t notice it was happening at the time.

So on the next day, it was on to the ceiling vinyl. I have 5 boxes of the vented soffit material that were purchased on clearance about 4 years ago. It costs about 3 times today what I paid for it back then. Some shots follow of the finished ceiling. One was taken from the peak looking down because I thought it was a cool vantage point, and because it shows a close-up the vent slots in the vinyl.

After all these years, I had my doubts that the vented style would look alright. Well, I must say that I’m relieved to find out it is fine. At that height, it is hard to even distinguish between the vented and non-vented style unless you look closely. My backup plan was to put the ceiling flag back up to hide it, but now I feel it isn’t necessary at all. The flag may still go back up just because I like it, however.

tinbender 66 · Oct 10, 2011

That vinyl looks cool :thumbup:

. That might be something I could do since my trusses are not designed to carry a bottom load. Wouldn't I need to provide for some air circulation?

shopnut · Oct 10, 2011

tinbender 66 said:
That vinyl looks cool. That might be something I could do since my trusses are not designed to carry a bottom load. Wouldn't I need to provide for some air circulation?

Thanks Paul. Its been a long time coming!

Considering your location, snow loads definitely come into play. But it seems the design of your trusses would lend itself well to strenghening without much work at all :dunno:

Then you could do a flat ceiling in there if you wanted. Or if you wanted to put the vinyl up on the purlins like I did and leave your trusses exposed, that would look good too.

It's hard to see it on mine, but the twin ridge rafters (purlins?) are spaced about 5" apart allowing venting up to a full length ridge vent. I have vented soffit on all roof overhangs but the finished walls have mainly caused that to be non-functional now. There is still a fair amount of leakage around the the rollup doors so I'm guessing this allows some natural convection when this place heats up. Since I don't really intend to heat this place in winter, I have little worry about losing heat out the ridge vent. I may air condition it someday, however, and I don't think that vent up there will really matter much up there at 20' when I'm trying to cool off the ground level.

I scanned through your thread and I didn't see what kind of venting system (if any) you have right now. I'm guessing maybe a soffit/ridge vent system ??? I do see bare sheathing on the ceiling, however - Is it your plan to someday insulate the building?

If you decide to use vinyl somehow in your place in a ceiling application, keep in mind the mfr recommends no more than 18" between supports. I'm at about 15-16" with maybe a slight bit of insulation pushing on it and the material I installed about 1.5 years ago is showing no signs of sagging.

(And BTW, thanks for the credit in your sig line

I was just trying to help another forum member out)

Red Leader · Oct 10, 2011

That looks VERY good! Nice and clean.

Man, you may inspire me to break out the drop ceiling stuff I have and go to town. Maybe we could have 'ceiling wars' (edit: nope, you'd win

).

Keep it up :thumbup:

tinbender 66 · Oct 11, 2011

shopnut said:
Thanks Paul. Its been a long time coming!

Considering your location, snow loads definitely come into play. But it seems the design of your trusses would lend itself well to strenghening without much work at all Then you could do a flat ceiling in there if you wanted. Or if you wanted to put the vinyl up on the purlins like I did and leave your trusses exposed, that would look good too.

It's hard to see it on mine, but the twin ridge rafters (purlins?) are spaced about 5" apart allowing venting up to a full length ridge vent. I have vented soffit on all roof overhangs but the finished walls have mainly caused that to be non-functional now. There is still a fair amount of leakage around the the rollup doors so I'm guessing this allows some natural convection when this place heats up. Since I don't really intend to heat this place in winter, I have little worry about losing heat out the ridge vent. I may air condition it someday, however, and I don't think that vent up there will really matter much up there at 20' when I'm trying to cool off the ground level.

I scanned through your thread and I didn't see what kind of venting system (if any) you have right now. I'm guessing maybe a soffit/ridge vent system ??? I do see bare sheathing on the ceiling, however - Is it your plan to someday insulate the building?

If you decide to use vinyl somehow in your place in a ceiling application, keep in mind the mfr recommends no more than 18" between supports. I'm at about 15-16" with maybe a slight bit of insulation pushing on it and the material I installed about 1.5 years ago is showing no signs of sagging.

(And BTW, thanks for the credit in your sig line I was just trying to help another forum member out)

I was just thinking out loud. I definately plan to insulate but that might be it. I may use that Prodex stuff 'cuz it's shiny

. R-15 but the weather is actually pretty mild here. When I go out there and hang around I kind of like the feeling of spaciousness you get with the open ceiling. Come next winter (2012) I plan to split my resources between the garage and the Chevy II.

I did consider sheeting the trusses with plywood. I posed that question in general garage a while back and got conflicting answers but I think it would add a lot of strength. We'll see.................

shopnut · Oct 12, 2011

Red Leader said:
That looks VERY good! Nice and clean.

Man, you may inspire me to break out the drop ceiling stuff I have and go to town. Maybe we could have 'ceiling wars' (edit: nope, you'd win).

Keep it up

Thanks RL. Clean is what I'm after up there.

Ceiling Wars??? NO!!! I'm liable to fall off the scaffolding if I start rushing it - not such a good idea from my standpoint :wtf:

I figure I have about 430sf of ceiling to go. But that is actually the easy part considering I have a 200sf front loft to build up at about a 15' height before I can completely finish the ceiling!

Man, my muscles ache already

shopnut · Oct 12, 2011

tinbender 66 said:
I was just thinking out loud. I definately plan to insulate but that might be it. I may use that Prodex stuff 'cuz it's shiny. R-15 but the weather is actually pretty mild here. When I go out there and hang around I kind of like the feeling of spaciousness you get with the open ceiling. Come next winter (2012) I plan to split my resources between the garage and the Chevy II.

I did consider sheeting the trusses with plywood. I posed that question in general garage a while back and got conflicting answers but I think it would add a lot of strength. We'll see.................

I also vote for keeping the vaulted ceiling - you just can't beat that "open" feel.

I hear ya - I can wait to start dumping some money into to poor old Chevelle. She has been sooooo patient all these years!

shopnut · Oct 12, 2011

THE WALL ABOVE THE OFFICE GETS ITS VINYL CLADDING…

Here’s a shot with the scaffold set up ready for the job. It serves more or less as the “before” picture.

Perimeter trim was first installed.

And here is the final product.

I’m still working on the plan for covering the beams. I have some 8” wide vinyl sheet with a 1” flange that will probably work. I need to keep in mind that the chain rings need to be accessible, however, at least on the beam above the jib crane. (See Reply #320)

flybefree · Oct 13, 2011

Looking good Shopnut...that scaffolding has certainly paid for itself several times over.

Shaun

shopnut · Oct 13, 2011

flybefree said:
Looking good Shopnut...that scaffolding has certainly paid for itself several times over.

Shaun

Thanks Shaun.

I remember trying to decide between renting and buying these 3 sets, thinking I would only need them for a short time. It certainly was a good choice to buy since they've been used practically every week over the last 5 years and the rental place closed it's doors several years ago. They also came in handy for painting the city house during the last renovation job.

tinbender 66 · Oct 13, 2011

Quite the burst of progress lately. It's looking awesome.

Wingnut65 · Oct 13, 2011

Slow down shopnut. You're making some of us look bad with all your progress.

(It looks great, though :thumbup:

)

shopnut · Oct 13, 2011

tinbender 66 said:
Quite the burst of progress lately. It's looking awesome.

Wingnut65 said:
Slow down shopnut. You're making some of us look bad with all your progress.

(It looks great, though )

Thanks guys. I've made some really good progress this year and hope to keep the momentum going right on through the loft build. That's going to take everything I can muster.

Of course, I wouldn't be happy without a couple of side projects too...

shopnut · Oct 13, 2011

THE FINAL PLAN FOR THE ASYLUM SIGN…

After stepping back and admiring the finished wall, an idea crossed my mind for the ASYLUM sign. Originally, I thought an oval sign shape would fit nicely up there by the peak above the office. But after looking at it, a sign matching the actual shape of the building would fit perfectly up there. Plus the monitor style building is a fairly distinctive shape. Here’s an outline of what I’m thinking of.

And below is what the sign color scheme will be. The background will be cut from a piece of aluminum tileboard that has been used extensively on the lower part of the walls. Dimensions on this board will be roughly 48” wide x 20” high and it will have roof lines made of 1x2” stock, extending out to give it some depth and black trim will be added on all other edges. Separate letters spelling “The ASYLUM” will be yellow with black outline and spaced off the background about 1/2”, again for some depth. This color scheme is basically reverse of what I was originally planning, but better matches the real details in the shop interior. The best thing is I don’t have to buy a thing to make it!

PLEASE NOTE: The lettering above was just a quick rendition to show you the general sign arrangement and colors with the software I have. The fat style font below will still be used for the lettering.

Of course, no sooner did I have this idea roughed out when I was reminded of this while flipping through the channels:

Doh! Maybe it was in the back of my mind all along since I watched the show quite a bit years ago :dunno:

But I’ll still assume I came up with this on my own

and will trudge forward with the my sign as discussed.

wolflrv · Oct 14, 2011

Hey Shopnut!! Looking really good!! Definitely like the shape you've got outlined! I think though, since your Chevy signs are lit, you need to use some colored plexiglass along with the aluminum trim in the Asylum sign and then back light the whole thing!! Wouldn't take much, probably just a small fixture mounted inside.

I'd also love to see a night pic with the Chevy signs lit up. I just dig stuff like that and think the light and color on that white vinyl will just glow at night!

shopnut · Oct 14, 2011

wolflrv said:
Hey Shopnut!! Looking really good!! Definitely like the shape you've got outlined! I think though, since your Chevy signs are lit, you need to use some colored plexiglass along with the aluminum trim in the Asylum sign and then back light the whole thing!! Wouldn't take much, probably just a small fixture mounted inside.

I'd also love to see a night pic with the Chevy signs lit up. I just dig stuff like that and think the light and color on that white vinyl will just glow at night!

Here’s a night shot of the Chevy signs, although it was taken back before any white vinyl was installed so the effect may be totally different now. (see Reply #112 for more details). I need to get some better photos up there as soon as the ceiling is completed in that area. I also tossed in a shot of the backlit banners (side loft doors) for your viewing pleasure

When I thought about installing a sign up there, I envisioned some kind of light shining on it from my (soon to be built) center light fixture hanging on the middle rafter. The trouble I foresee with my idea is the light might be seen by someone looking out the bay window, unless it is a very focused spotlight.

Your idea of backlighting might work much better and have a more interesting effect. The downside is it will require power up there and I haven’t planned for it. But, by using LEDs for the light source, I could probably run a small gauge white cable to it that could be hidden easily in the vinyl J-channel.

Good food for thought wolflrv - thanks.

flybefree · Oct 14, 2011

Shopnut, the sign is an absolute necessity! You have really bulit a "brand" with your project and every brand needs a logo...I like the simple design and with the size and scale of the piece I would think simple is the right way to go. A simple LED back light, the sign could be mounted to stand off the wall by 1" or so and the back lighting...color matched to your chevy signs perhaps...would really be neat. The spot light would work as well if the fixture distance/bulb combination needed could be achieved.

Shaun

rickairmedic · Oct 14, 2011

Shopnut if your thinking of playing with LED's then ebay is your freind . Thats where I order mine for my flashlights . I get 100 LED's for less than $4.00 shipped from Hong Kong and they are here within a week . You will have to take up soldering and circuit board building to do it . You should also be able to run it off of a 12 volt door bell transformer .

Rick

shopnut · Oct 16, 2011

flybefree said:
Shopnut, the sign is an absolute necessity! You have really bulit a "brand" with your project and every brand needs a logo...I like the simple design and with the size and scale of the piece I would think simple is the right way to go. A simple LED back light, the sign could be mounted to stand off the wall by 1" or so and the back lighting...color matched to your chevy signs perhaps...would really be neat. The spot light would work as well if the fixture distance/bulb combination needed could be achieved.

Shaun

rickairmedic said:
Shopnut if your thinking of playing with LED's then ebay is your freind . Thats where I order mine for my flashlights . I get 100 LED's for less than $4.00 shipped from Hong Kong and they are here within a week . You will have to take up soldering and circuit board building to do it . You should also be able to run it off of a 12 volt door bell transformer .

Rick

Great ideas guys - thanks!

It seems just the shipping for those LEDs from Hong Kong would be more than $4 - I just can't figure that one out :headscrat

.

shopnut · Oct 16, 2011

ANOTHER SECTION OF CEILING IS FINISHED…

This was more or less a repeat of the other side - insulation first, then trim, and finally the vinyl.

Here’s a panoramic that stitched together fairly well.

I finally got around to adding the S-hooks to space the Chevy sign down about 2” and I think it looks much better being spaced equally in the recess.

Next, I will be stocking up on materials for building the front loft.

tinbender 66 · Oct 16, 2011

Say! I have a used 6.5 hp Briggs & Stratton that I am sure, with your background, you could use to motorize that scaffold and eliminate a few ladder trips

.

The place is looking fantastic.

rickairmedic · Oct 17, 2011

shopnut said:
Great ideas guys - thanks!

It seems just the shipping for those LEDs from Hong Kong would be more than $4 - I just can't figure that one out .

Oh I dont know how they do it either granted its not like 100 LED's take up alot of room or weight . Heres a pic of a bag with roughly 90 still in it .

The ceiling is looking great by the way .

Rick

Red Leader · Oct 17, 2011

Shopnut,

quick thought - every time I log into GJ and take a look at your fantastic build, the pictures never seem to show up, it is just a link that says:

Click image for larger version Name: 957-Main-Bay-Ceiling-27.JPG Views: 15 Size: 123.0 KB ID: 142593 Click image for larger version Name: 958-Main-Bay-Ceiling-29.JPG Views: 13 Size: 128.2 KB ID: 142594 Click image for larger version Name: 959-Main-Bay-Ceiling-31.JPG Views: 11 Size: 124.3 KB ID: 142595

Not sure why the pictures don't show. It might be on my end, but it happens with different computers and only on your build for some reason. When I click on the link to view the picture, even though I was logged in, it takes me to the 'you need to log in to view this page' type of page.

Really strange. Are others having this prob? I hate feeling like I'm missing out on parts of this build!

rickairmedic · Oct 17, 2011

Dave thats odd as all of the pictures show up for me .

Rick

shopnut · Oct 17, 2011

tinbender 66 said:
Say! I have a used 6.5 hp Briggs & Stratton that I am sure, with your background, you could use to motorize that scaffold and eliminate a few ladder trips.

The place is looking fantastic.

That wouldn't be that slightly used 6.5hp that you showed spread all over your workbench, is it?

As many trips as I've taken up and down that ladder, some type of electric scissors lift would have really been nice over the years to save some steps up/down and move the whole platform around. Luckily the width of this scaffold allows me to fasten down the entire plank without moving (with a little reaching). I still have to move it as more planks are added across the room.

Thanks to you and Rick for your kind words.

shopnut · Oct 17, 2011

Red Leader said:
Shopnut,

quick thought - every time I log into GJ and take a look at your fantastic build, the pictures never seem to show up, it is just a link that says:

Click image for larger version Name: 957-Main-Bay-Ceiling-27.JPG Views: 15 Size: 123.0 KB ID: 142593 Click image for larger version Name: 958-Main-Bay-Ceiling-29.JPG Views: 13 Size: 128.2 KB ID: 142594 Click image for larger version Name: 959-Main-Bay-Ceiling-31.JPG Views: 11 Size: 124.3 KB ID: 142595

Not sure why the pictures don't show. It might be on my end, but it happens with different computers and only on your build for some reason. When I click on the link to view the picture, even though I was logged in, it takes me to the 'you need to log in to view this page' type of page.

Really strange. Are others having this prob? I hate feeling like I'm missing out on parts of this build!

That's odd Red Leader. Next time it happens, scoll back up to the top and verify you are, in fact, still logged in. If you are, you should at least see a thumbnail of each picture and when clicked, a larger view is opened in a new window. It sounds like it is not keeping you logged in.

Next time, try logging in and clicking the "Remember Me" checkbox to the right of the entry boxes.

According to Rick, it seems to be working for him and hopefully other people too. Wouldn't want to deprive any one, you know

Thanks for the heads up. If others are experiencing this, please speak up.

Wingnut65 · Oct 17, 2011

The pictures work for me too. Maybe it's an altitude thing... :lol:

Shopnut, this is one cool shot! :thumbup:

Red Leader · Oct 17, 2011

Wingnut65 said:
The pictures work for me too. Maybe it's an altitude thing... [/IMG]

Hah, yeah ya know we get a little loopy up here past 5K ft :lol_hitti

Terry454 · Oct 17, 2011

No problems for me viewing pictures. they show up as thumbnails on both home computers (one with Vista no less) and also OK at work in spite of the censor bot. Aparently it sees garages as harmless.

Terry

shopnut · Oct 17, 2011

Wingnut65 said:
The pictures work for me too. Maybe it's an altitude thing...

Shopnut, this is one cool shot!

Thanks Wingnut. The panoramic hopefully helps explain the lay of the land, so to speak (disregarding a few bowed lines) It's what you would see if you were 16' tall!

Red Leader said:
Hah, yeah ya know we get a little loopy up here past 5K ft

Red Leader has the altitude and new father excuse so we can't be too hard on him

Terry454 said:
No problems for me viewing pictures. they show up as thumbnails on both home computers (one with Vista no less) and also OK at work in spite of the censor bot. Aparently it sees garages as harmless.

Terry

I'm lucky in that respect too, Terry - GJ is one of the few hobby sites I can actually get to at work. Gives me something to do while I'm eating my sandwich :thumbup:

I think that censor bot was wrong in determining that GJ is harmless though, I think most of us are truly addicted to some level

Wingnut65 · Oct 17, 2011

Something like this??

shopnut · Oct 21, 2011

Wingnut65 said:
Something like this??

That about nails it Wingnut65!

I probably will still flip the yellow and silver, though. It would be easier for me to build because I could use a large piece of tileboard for the silver background and cut the letters out of basically any material (preferrably wood) and paint them yellow. Thanks for taking the time!

BTW, sorry for the slow response but I was up in Philly for a quick training course this week. And most people thought I couldn't be trained - HA, I showed them!

A trip up to Nazareth to see those Martin guitars just wasn't in the cards though

Omphaloskeptic · Oct 22, 2011

"A trip up to Nazareth to see those Martin guitars just wasn't in the cards though"

A Golden Opportunity Lost! At least your checkbook did not suffer a loss. lol Just remember that Christmas is just around the corner... I'm sure Mrs. Shopnut would really show her 'appreciation' if her hubby brought home something very special from Nazareth, Pa., and I ain't talking about an assortment of guitar picks either. (wink-wink-nudge-nudge) :thumbup:

rwreuter · Oct 22, 2011

is that a garage or your home......either way

I AM JEALOUS!!!!!!

shopnut · Oct 25, 2011

rwreuter said:
is that a garage or your home......either way

I AM JEALOUS!!!!!!

Today the place is multi-functional, but it is not our primary residence. Someday we will build a retirement home out there next to the Asylum and the apartment will become a guess house (unless I convert it to a dedicated wood shop).

Thanks for "stopping by" rweuter.

shopnut · Oct 25, 2011

MATERIALS ARE PURCHASED FOR THE FRONT LOFT…

There’s no turning back now! $800 was spent on the first two loads, but I’m sure there will be a few more odds and ends to buy before it is all finished. On the trip out to the Asylum, I picked up the 2x6 lumber. If there would have been room, I was going to run back in and buy the T&G plywood, but a second trip was needed. Since I was hauling the 12’ lumber, it seemed like a good time to also buy the 12’ vinyl to cover the beams.

I found a good deal on 3” lag bolts on fee-bay, so I stocked up. Now I know what 500 bolts look like in one box! I also decided to replace my old tired Skilsaw with a Porter Cable version. I had been watching the auction site for over a year in search of a reasonably priced used DareX industrial drill sharpener, but they were always fetching around $300-500, so I gave up. I watched the video for the Drill Doctor and it seemed like it would give the proper grind angles and popped for a new one. After sharpening a couple of bits on it, the relief angles are almost non-existent and that was a bit disappointing. Splitting the tip seems to help and I’ll just make that a common practice when I sharpen one. The bits seem to cut good after a quick sharpening.

As soon as I arrived at the Asylum, it dawned on me that I had forgotten the 14’ long 2x6’s for the outer rafter, so my second trip included plywood and even more lumber.

I need quite a bit of insulation, so I throw a pack or two in the cab whenever there’s room in the truck.

I’ve been giving a little thought to how I will build this loft, and my conclusion is that a temporary platform will be built on the outside apron at about a 9’ height. This should make it easy to build the framework, install the ceiling material, and still allow me to keep the rolling scaffold at full height inside.

I also need to build my front track hoist inside at the peak to allow materials to be lifted up there. The hoist will be permanent and be use to fill the loft with goodies in the future.

flybefree · Oct 25, 2011

Sorry to hear the drill doctor doesn't meet expectations....that was something I had been looking at closely. Looking forward to some CONSTRUCTION!

Shaun

shopnut · Oct 25, 2011

Since Drill Doctor is made by the same company (DareX), I was expecting it to grind in a similar fashion to the industrial versions they make with the big difference being in the plastic housing, small grinding wheel, and such. The cam-action is just not the same on the homeowners version. I'm maybe being a little harsh because the bits do come out SHARP, no doubt. It will probably end up being worth the $125 I paid for it (model 750X). I just need to forget the lesson my shop teacher taught me in high school - maybe he was wrong anyway :wtf:

. It is nice that it's portable so I can take it between the city house and Asylum (although bringing the bits to IT may be easier :headscrat

)

I'm actually looking forward to some framing construction now that the weather is cooling off.

Above 1200 Sq/FT The ASYLUM - Happy 40th Birthday to Me! (Est. 2005)

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