Whats the tool situation in Taiwan?

Whats the tool situation in Taiwan?

(Sorry for the "boilerplate", I asked the same question for the other threads in the past! I have modified it somewhat for the change in country and additional questions!)

Hey, Alfajuj! (or anyone else in Taiwan) I thought it would be interesting to hear from you about tools in Taiwan! So much of the tools sold in the USA are being sourced from Taiwan now and of course more recently, China!
Questions: what is the situation in Taiwan in relation to tools,; what brands do people buy (pro, home, industrial, etc.), what is available; do Taiwanese people choose to buy foreign tools or keep with the local brands? What Taiwanese brands are you aware of; also, what other quality Asian brand tools are you aware of, that we here in the USA may not know about? Are european/German tools favored over USA made stuff (e.g. Stahlwille, Facom, Hazet, Gedore, Klann etc.) or Asian as well?
Also, what is your tool collection and use of tools like? Can you describe what in your opinion are the different Asian/Taiwanese brands and what their quality is?
Many of us here, tend to prefer USA/European brands but it would be interesting to hear what your perspective would be and if possible what a Taiwanese point of view would be as well. Brands such as Gearwrench/Toptul has shown that the stereotype of poor quality tools coming out of countries such as Taiwan, to be changing for the better and are making quality tools that stand up to everyday usage, a reality! Have you seen this trend and do you think this will continue? Appreciate any and all responses from you or anyone else in Taiwan or Asia. Thanks!

Dang that was one helluva long paragraph....

Sorry, had to get it all out there....
Its all about getting things stirred up and get the conversation started!

I have a friend that sells tools and he told me that anybody on his route from asia doesn't like to buy china made tools. The imported tools from china when they lived in the area were so poor and they remember the past history of low quailty everthing from china. He said those asian customers he has are the most anti-china tool group he has overall with some american customers being second about not wanting china tools. The same group don't have the same complaints about Taiwan and always but his US made stuff without any questions.

At the flea market I see older Asian guys pick up a tool to look at it, then say "China" and drop the tool on the ground.

Tool Pants said:

At the flea market I see older Asian guys pick up a tool to look at it, then say "China" and drop the tool on the ground.

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I'm Irish/Polish and I do the same!!!!

wrenchr said:

I'm Irish/Polish and I do the same!!!!

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Yeah, but you didn't have the Mao and his boys kill your family, take your land and business, then exile you to a dinky starving island. And then continue to shoot rockets at you, and threaten to conquer your independent country or kill you and your family if you submit.
The old Taiwanese guys did. And still do live under threat of conquest any day.

So I think it has little to do with the tools, not that the Chinese tools, unlike the Taiwan tools, are worth having.

There's hardly any consumer market for mechanics tools here- people generally don't have garages, work on their own cars, etc. As manufacturers, we pretty much ignore the domestic market. I've seen European and Japanese tools at pro garages, but no Snap-On. But I've never really searched all that hard, and I wouldn't swear that they aren't out there somewhere. I am very curious to know what they use to produce/maintain the IDF (Indigenous Defense Fighter).

reversegear said:

There's hardly any consumer market for mechanics tools here- people generally don't have garages, work on their own cars, etc. As manufacturers, we pretty much ignore the domestic market. I've seen European and Japanese tools at pro garages, but no Snap-On. But I've never really searched all that hard, and I wouldn't swear that they aren't out there somewhere. I am very curious to know what they use to produce/maintain the IDF (Indigenous Defense Fighter).

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So, is that for the pros in Taiwan, only European or Japanese? All I can say if that is true, then more power to them.

So, there isn't a "do it yourself" type of culture in Taiwan or is there something else that is a issue? On the "lack of a market" issue; is this common, because most of the products made in Taiwan are for export? Can you tell us some of the Taiwanese brands or other Asian brands; compare/contrast, quality, value, pro, etc.?

Koken.................

wrenchr said:

Koken.................

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Hey Wrencher - I have an original Koken tool kit from the 1970's given to me as the result of an international surf contest. The Japanese contestants loved my 1971 Toyota Hylux pickup truck.

cruiser808 said:

Hey Wrencher - I have an original Koken tool kit from the 1970's given to me as the result of an international surf contest. The Japanese contestants loved my 1971 Toyota Hylux pickup truck.

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Pics????

wrenchr said:

Pics????

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Okay, you got it my friend, might take a little while as I got to go to work. There is a time zone ya know.

Tool Pants said:

At the flea market I see older Asian guys pick up a tool to look at it, then say "China" and drop the tool on the ground.

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Smart shopper ...

Taiwan tools are gaining a following for quality, from my point of view. I had a thread on some affordable long double box wrench sets, I received for X-mas. They were made in Taiwan, they had excellent fit and finish, they could hold their own against my Snap-on ones (just no SO stamp). Even my picky Cornwell dealer was impressed with them as he looked them over. One would notice, the best offerings from Harbor Freight are made in Taiwan, and they are good quality.

billymade said:

Hey, there... I started another thread about tools in different parts of the world; I thought hearing about taiwan would be interesting, especially since so much of the tools sold in the USA right now come from your country! If your willing please contribute to this thread! Thanks!....billy

Hopefully, I didn't offend you by "calling you out" by mentioning your name in the thread; I did that because I noticed you live there! I appreciate any responses you are willing to provide,

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29814

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Well actually, even though I've been here over 16 years, I'm not Taiwanese, I'm American. So my opinions will not be typical of the average Taiwanese person.
I'm an exec at a Taiwanese power tool manufacturer. Many years ago I worked as a mechanic for a time, and I have always worked on my own cars. I've restored a number of cars and motorcycles (mostly Italian or British). Right now I've got an old Moto Guzzi T3 which was once a Taiwanese police bike. I've restored it to be a 750-S3 lookalike.
I also love to collect excellent tools and am always scouring stores trying to find interesting tools. The majority of my tool collection is Hazet. I also have a lot of Wiha, Stahlwille, Elora, Ko-ken, Gedore and Hafu. I'm always looking for the good stuff.

Here is my take on the Taiwan tool situation.

The mechanics here do not buy their own tools. The boss provides them. So you don't get the pride of ownership factor they way you have it in America with the truck brands. They're very pragmatic here and the bosses want to get the maximum bang for their buck in tool buys. They don't want to waste a lot of time researching. The thinking here, which is very deeply ingrained, is that made in Japan is the professional grade stuff, so that's what they tend to buy. Made in Germany is even better, but way expensive. I'll apologize up front if I bandy around a lot of brand names which most of you have never heard of in your lives. Japanese tools are a parallel universe which you see very little of in the west. Most of it is very conservatively styled, looking like American stuff from the 1950's. Most wrenches are raised panel, like old Craftsman stuff.
The big brands here for professionals are:
For wrenches: Aigo, Crab, Ikeda, Kato, KWT, KBS Kobayashi (all made in Japan), The Taiwanese brands Force and OuLee are also popular.
For Sockets: Ko-ken is the undisputed king. You also see a lot of other Japanese brands about like Tone, Flag, Toze, Noda. Another popular brand is Genius, which is Canadian, but made in Taiwan, I think.
For pliers, the most popular brand is Lobster (made in Japan). The best brand available is Knipex. But the importer who sells Knipex is really annoying. He puts his own brand on all these tools called "K-Germany" He sells top brands like Wiha and Knipex (labeled on the packaging as "K-Germany", but with the real brand still on the tool) , but he also sells a bunch of other low grade stuff, maybe made in Taiwan, maybe even made in China, but labeled as "Made in Germany". Like these screwdrivers labeled "WSS Germany" and wrenches labeled "Winnex Germany" But no such brands exist in Germany.

For screwdrivers, Japanese brands Light and Rubicon are popular. You can also get Wiha and Schroeder, which are excellent German brands. I'm so glad to be able to get them.

If you really search, you can find some Hazet. I've bought a lot of new old stock Hazet stuff which is still labeled "West Germany", so it must be from the eighties. (I suspect that this is stuff left over from many years ago, which was just too high priced to ever sell in this market.-Until I came around!) The same goes for old Elora and Gedore stuff which I've bought.

You don't see Snap-On. You hear about it, it's like a legend. But you don't see trucks and you don't see people using it in the market.
The other truck brands are just non existant here. People here have never heard of Mac or Corwell, etc. The only US brands you see a lot of are Irwin and Bondhus.
You don't see Facom, Beta or Stahlwille. (but I do know the Stahlwille importer and he does a lot of business with the military. so to answer your question about the tools they use to work on the IDFs, it's Stahlwille)


The majority of top-level made in Taiwan tools are not even sold here. They are all made for the big world famous brands and directly exported. We don't even get to see them. I have seen some Toptul stuff. I've heard that Toptul (Rotar) supplies Facom.
I bought a 13mm Toptul wrench, just for comparison. Holy cow! It's really nice!
the Taiwanese don't seem to know how to build a brand, but they sure as hell know how to build a good tool.
The guys in Europe and the US with the brands are getting rich selling these Taiwanese products which are in fact really well-made.

By the way, Everyone in Taiwan HATES Made in China tools and serious buyers won't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Awesome post. Alfajuj. Thanks!

I wonder what retail prices you have there for taiwanese tools.......Did you ever saw "Reverse Gear" or "Geartech" branded tools ?

Do not forget that Taiwan is a free country, and NOT part of the PRC.
The quality of their products is much improved over the past several years.
They should also have some knowlege of quality control, unlike the Chicrap that consistently ranks in the totally useless junk catagory.

A very informative post Alfajuj, Thanks!

Strangely, I have seen the Ko Ken, Crab and Lobster tools at flea markets/pawn shops and always passed.

Here is a LOBSTER from EBAY





I may have to pick some up for pics!!!

Thanks,

-BWP

I wonder if they get pissed if they see American tools in their tool stores. Do they think they're cheap????

Alfajuj said:

You don't see Snap-On..........it's like a legend.

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Did ya get that...............A legend !!!!!!!!!!!!

their 'quality' stuff comes from TAIWAN and there are bullitin boards there that have chineese people swearing by their stuff and refusing to buy that overseas ****.
oh
and their version of HF sells stuff made in india

bob

Monte said:

I wonder what retail prices you have there for taiwanese tools.......Did you ever saw "Reverse Gear" or "Geartech" branded tools ?

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I've wondered that, too. How much a Toptul wrench or a Reverse Gear ratcheting wrench costs--if it's even sold under that name there.

Blacknwhitepit said:

....
Strangely, I have seen the Ko Ken, Crab and Lobster tools at flea markets/pawn shops and always passed.

Here is a LOBSTER from EBAY

-BWP

Click to expand...

Ko-ken, Lobster, and Crab are all Japanese tool manufacturers--the latter two being well known for their adj. wrenches in Japan.

Toptul has (at least one) retail store here. I've never been inside, because they'll probably just throw me out when I start taking pictures.

Yes, you can buy Rotar and Toptul here in Taiwan. But but where I am (a small city, Dou Liou) they are not directly marketed by the Toptul company. They are through a distributor which carries many brands. The distributor's catalog only had wrenches, no sockets.
I bought a Toptul 13mm high polished combination wrench for about 120 NTD, which is about $3.50 USD.
It is a truly pretty wrench with flawless finish. It also rings nicely like a tuning fork when you hit it. I really cannot find fault with Toptul stuff.
I have also seen Gearwrench wrenches for sale. It was strange, on one side, it was forged in the Gearwrench logo, but on the other side there was a laser printed logo of another brand, Blackhand, as I recall. (There's a lot of dodgy stuff like that here in this market.) They weren't so cheap. About 500 NT, which is about $14.50 USD, for a 12mm reverse gear combination wrench.

wow that`s expensive ....thats almost the same what you pay in the US !? hhmm i thought they`d be cheaper, more realistic like 5$ or so

A little refreshment from the east

The Taiwanese lady said: “Life time warranty is the key factor”

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Cheers,
Phang
from the hot and humid Singapore

thanx man...........that's hilarious...........is that considered abuse?

At least we know the chrome plating hold up very well against citric acid, someone should forward this video clip to Snap-On

Why the hell is she hitting those things anyway?

ancient custom for shining tools............as if you didn't know that one............coy boy

I thought that was Snap On way of impact testing wrench.

Below are links to some Taiwanese tool manufacturers.

http://www.kingtony.com/idx.asp
http://www.goodtools.com.tw/
http://www.whirlpower.com.tw/
http://www.hanstool.com/
http://www.b2bsocket.com/quality.htm

We have been carrying Taiwan manufactured tools for years. Both Genius Tools and Grey Pneumatic are manufactured in Taiwan. The majority of our customers are heavy equipment guys. I can't speak for the hand sockets but the impact sockets from both Genius tools and Grey are top notch. Genius' ratchets rank right up there with Snap-On, MAC, or Matco tools. These guys take pride in their work.

DSKA Tools,

Why do you say that Genius' ratchets are at the same level as Snap-on, Mac, and Matco? There are many individuals on this board who work in the automotive and aircraft industries who would totally disagree with you. How could a $15 to $20 Genius ratchet (made in Taiwan) compete with a $50 to $100 plus ratchet (made in U.S.) in terms of quality materials and finishing techniques. Please provide some concrete reasons why you feel this way.

Thanks,

Dave

Another, "situation" thread; can anyone else from Taiwan chime in?

I don't see the point of buying Taiwanese, the place has no history(which is one thing china does have...) and for the prices of somethings you are better off buying a western made tool.

Also this has inspired me to make a thread...

This thread is about tools from a Taiwanese perspective; what they buy, what is available there, brands of tools, etc.

cens.com has many news stories about Taiwanese hand tool manufacturers. It is industry propaganda, but provides some insight, and you can find out who some of the Taiwanese manufacturers are. It seems they have been struggling with competition from cheap (mainland) Chinese tools.

http://www.cens.com/cens/html/en/news/news_inner_25878.html

http://www.cens.com/cens/html/en/news/news_inner_34840.html

http://www.cens.com/cens/html/en/news/news_inner_21768.html

http://www.cens.com/cens/html/en/news/news_inner_4153.html

http://www.cens.com/cens/html/en/news/news_inner_3523.html

http://www.cens.com/cens/html/en/news/news_inner_21774.html

http://www.cens.com/cens/html/en/news/news_inner_39469.html

http://www.cens.com/cens/html/en/news/news_inner_34843.html

http://news.cens.com/cens/html/en/news/news_inner_30856.html

I particularly suggest this story about digital torque wrenches:

http://news.cens.com/cens/html/en/news/news_inner_30792.html
http://news.cens.com/cens/html/en/news/news_inner_32994.html

I would prefer to buy Taiwanese tools branded by their manufacturer rather than some fabricated brand/house brand that does not manufacture anything themselves, and thus can change the supplier and quality at any moment.

I wish the Taiwanese tool companies could come up with a DealExtreme-type site selling hand tools so I could order Taiwanese-branded tools over the internet.